http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28763
Aerotowing Concern
johhnn - 2013/04/04 21:34:54 UTC
Maine
I am just a newbie, having made only sixty "flights" down the training hill from about a hundred feet or less. But I have the same concerns. I met Zac...
Zack.
...last year.
Hopefully not in the context of any discussion involving aerotowing.
I asked before in the forum about the accident about tail planes. You mentioned powered aircraft. They have tail planes (or are they called horizontal stabilizers?) that prevent tumbling. I know Aeros has a tail plane that can be fitted on their and other gliders.
Anybody have any experience or thoughts on this that they care to share?
Sure John. Rig your glider with a tail. Then when your Rooney Link dumps you into a whipstall at 150 feet you won't have anything to worry about.
Davis Straub - 2013/04/04 21:44:37 UTC
You don't need a tail on a hang glider that is designed not to have a tail.
How 'bout a:
- two point bridle on a hang glider that is designed not to be flown by someone being pulled a foot and a half in front of the basetube?
- one and a half G weak link on a hang glider that is designed not to be whipstalled at 150 feet?
- release that lets you blow tow in an emergency on a hang glider that is designed not to be flown in an emergency with one hand?
- pair of wheels on a hang glider that is designed not to be flown by someone upright with his hands on the downtubes or pitched up more than thirty degrees?
- hook-in check on a hang glider that is designed not to be launched, flown, and landed without a pilot suspended from the hang point?
Dave Hopkins - 2013/04/05 01:02:10 UTC
I think it's a fact that a tail would help high aspect ratio flex wings in most tumble situations. We don't get in those situations often.
So, John, you should be very comfortable being pro toad in thermal conditions with a Rooney Link to very clearly provide protection from excessive angles of attack, high bank turns, and the like for that form of towing.
In 35 yrs flying, 25 in flexis I have not felt I needed a tail.
If you haven't tumbled, yet, you haven't needed one, yet - irrespective of your feelings.
And the vast majority of people towing have not felt they needed a release they can blow in an emergency or a weak link that will hold up to any situation in which the glider isn't getting significantly stressed.
And the vast majority of pro toads have not felt they needed they needed a two point bridle to trim the glider properly on tow.
But when you start looking at who the vast majority of people who are getting crashed, knocked out of the sport, crippled, killed trying to tow are...
But I bet it would have helped Zacks situation.
Good, Dave. Then we don't really need to be looking at the two factors which would've in no uncertain terms PREVENTED Zack's situation.
I think H.P. flex wings are reasonably safe and beginner gliders are extremely stable.
Total fuckin' moron.
Jerry Furnell - 2013/04/05 01:09:53 UTC
Is there any record of a tumble in a flexwing that has a tail?
Not interested, Jerry. The topic is "Aerotowing Concern", we've only ever had one tumble directly related to aerotow, and you only need a low double digit IQ to totally prevent them.
Note also the recent tumble accident at Manilla that I posted in the "Incidents" section on this forum.
I'll get to it when I'm bored enough.
John Fritsche - 2013/04/05 02:08:26 UTC
Probably not, but there are very, very few tumbles AND very, very few people flying gliders with tails. That combination of factors makes the likelihood of any one type of glider having more tumbles than other gliders have pretty tiny.
How 'bout we focus on the recent one at Quest, look at the equipment that the glider was using, and see if we can come up with any recommendations?
With regards to the original topic: I personally am just about equally comfortable with aerotowing and foot launching. The characteristics of some foot launches make launching in most conditions incredibly easy, brainless, and safe, whereas I ALWAYS feel at least a little sense of intensity on aerotow until we're up a few hundred feet.
What are you most afraid of happening and are you using the best equipment possible to prevent what you're afraid of happening from happening?
With that exception, I feel the two types of launching are equally safe.
Aerotowing's safer - but only about one percent as safe as it COULD - and SHOULD - be.