You are NEVER hooked in.

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21474
fatal accident in Israel
Geoffrey Chaney (Qi) - 2012/02/08 12:43:45 UTC
New Port Richey, Florida

:cry: Very sad. Even as a new hg pilot, I feel a great loss any time I hear of a fellow pilot seriously injured or killed in pursuit of this passion.
Get to know some a little better.
It is ironic that the very thing that attracts us, is what sometimes kills.
No. NOBODY is attracted to FALLING. Well, high divers, skydivers, bungee jumpers... But nobody's attracted to falling all the way to a surface from high enough to hurt or kill himself. This guy wasn't killed hang gliding. This guy was killed because he WASN'T hang gliding.
The intoxicating excitement and intensity of free flight can be distracting.
That's NOT the real problem. If people had to put transponders on their wrists to keep from getting blown away by snipers while taking the garbage out to the curb they'd die at similar rates for similar reasons.
Some of the voices in my head say, this can never happen to me because I have good safety habits...
REALLY bad voices - see if you can get a prescription to take care of that problem.
...but I know this is not true.
Stay with that. Take it to the extreme (like I did).
Given the right circumstances I know I can be distracted too.
ANYBODY can. Assume you WILL - EVERY FLIGHT.
I also believe that for every safety issue in aviation there is a solution...
There is. Have you read your rating requirements?
...and it gives me hope to see this issue given the sober consideration it deserves.
Bullshit. You're listening to reruns from a bunch of halfwitted Jack Show assholes who've never had the slightest clue and never will.
The simplest problems are frequently the toughest.
This one is SO EASY. Read your fuckin' rating requirements, think about them, and start following them.
The answers will come if we keep searching...
The answer's staring you in the face. Since the Seventies only the idiots have been searching. Figure out who the people with the brains are and start doing what they are.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21474
fatal accident in Israel
Fred Wilson - 2012/02/08 15:32:33 UTC
Vernon, British Columbia

1. I failed to hook in once.
That wasn't the problem, Fred.

- The problem was that you failed to CHECK that you were hooked in BEFORE you launched.

- The REASON that you failed to CHECK that you were hooked in BEFORE you launched was that you NEVER CHECK that you're hooked in BEFORE you launch.

- The reason that you NEVER CHECK that you're hooked in BEFORE you launch is that you're an idiot.
Managed to release over a flat area seconds later.
Who cares? What were you doing seconds BEFORE?
As long as I live, I will tell you I will never, ever repeat the experience.
And the more sincerely you believe that the greater the chances that you will.
Nothing can explain the shock that hits your system.
Doesn't seem to have been severe enough to get your wiring straightened out enough to matter.
What awed me was that my brain was operating at 200%.
Yeah, that must've been incredible. From two percent to two hundred in the space of a couple of seconds. Then back down to two within a couple of seconds of getting safely back on the ground. Glad you got things stabilized so well.
I was thinking a mile a minute.
Astonishing that your thinking survived the forces of acceleration well enough to return to normal afterwards.
It would take me a lifetime to write down all the options my mind went though in those few brief seconds.
In those few brief seconds - or in any of the years which followed - did any option go through your mind for what you might have done differently in the two second prior to launch? Just kidding.
Our Israeli compatriot went down fighting for his life, right to the last second.
Who cares? Why aren't we talking about what he DIDN'T do JUST PRIOR TO LAUNCH which would've allowed him to have a fun flight that afternoon and for many subsequent ones over the years instead of what righteous stuff he was exhibiting AFTER this last of many pooch screws?
Bless his soul.
Yeah. He's undoubtedly in better place now. And he died doing what he loved.
2. As a wireman, I was ripped up off the cliff launch at Swansea circa 1979.
Graydon Tronquilla suicided his glider and himself by climbing onto the side wires and doing an instant 180 back onto the launch surface.
I am alive today, only thanks to him. Brilliant thinking, instantaneous reaction and action.
Mind working double time to save a friend saved both our lives.
So would a mind working very slowly prior to that launch possibly conclude that it might be a good idea for the crew to be tied in? Maybe the glider would've finished the day in better shape if it had.
3. The human brain is one awesome thing when it really kicks into gear.
Yeah. Think what it could accomplish if it were in gear during the times people WEREN'T dangling from basetubes and sidewires.
Start your day off right, with a good cup of coffee and a solid breakfast.
Fer sure!

"Well, I SHOULD do a hook-in check... But I started my day off right, with a good cup of coffee and a solid breakfast! NO WAY I could've forgotten to hook in or forgotten that I unhooked after starting my day off right, with a good cup of coffee and a solid breakfast!"
Those precious blasts of nutrients and energy may come in very, very handy.
DUDE!!! ABSOLUTELY!!! You should be able to swing yourself back up into the control frame like an Olympic gymnast!

Me... I try to do stuff in the setup area and on the ramp such that I won't need those precious blasts of nutrients and energy to come in very, very handy.
4. Establish a routine on launch. Never ever break your routine. Treat it like religion.
- Yeah. Establish a routine on launch. Never ever break your routine. Treat it like religion. Aussie Methodism comes immediately to mind. And once you've established it - regardless of how fucking moronic your religion is - never violate it or listen to anyone who says anything that actually makes sense. The important thing is that you have a religion. And if he keeps on saying it have Jack send it to The Basement. And if he keeps on saying it down there you can rest assured that Jack will ban him.

- And because of your discipline, sincerity, and moral purity you should never hafta worry about doing anything as part of your launch sequence that verifies you're hooked in. Just stick to your routines and run off the cliff whenever you feel ready.
The Peter Luke Setup Procedure. (Mentor.)
- I don't know anything about Peter Luke but if he was your mentor he's a moron too.
- This issue doesn't have shit to do with SETUP - or PREFLIGHT - procedures. This is a LAUNCH SEQUENCE issue.
If someone wants to chat, explain why they are going to wait a minute.
- Yep, he'll hafta wait a minute for you to finish your preflight procedures so you can be confident you're hooked in when you start your launch run. After that y'all can chat all you want because you'll have all the important boxes checked and can relax.

- He can come over and chat with me all he feels like 'cause he'd need an assault rifle to get me to run off the ramp with out tightening my suspension the second before. And that's about the only assembly issue that matters much when the glider's together enough to move it to launch position.
5. Read and remember Preflight Checks by Ricky Tarr:
http://www.hpac.ca/pub/?pid=108
Yeah, Ricky's about as good as they come!

- Do a hang check and ask your nose launcher to see if all lines and straps are clear and check the carabiner is properly locked shut.

- Check your helmet 'cause it would be catastrophic if it weren't buckled.

- Look over the glider again 'cause you just can't preflight it too many times. And if you see anything wrong then fix it! Oh yeah, meant to check the wing camera angle. Maybe tap that undersurface batten in a bit more while I'm at it. Helmet and gloves back on... Now where was I? Oh yeah...

- Check for traffic out in front of launch... NOTHING is worse than to take off in the path of another glider! That's gotta be the Number One killer in our sport - and SO EASILY prevented. Nope - looks good. And look at how fast Bill's going up there over to the right! Looks like it's really starting to happen! Oops, forgot to switch the vario on. Set the altimeter... There.

- Then brief your crew and tell them what your takeoff procedure will be. Let them know that you'll be going off the FRONT of the ramp with your nose FORWARD and wings LEVEL and your word will be "Saxophone!" No "Clear!" Yeah, that's the right one. Wouldn't want any confusion on that.

- Then find out which way your nose launcher is gonna duck so you can run to the other side when you launch. "Oh! Sorry, I thought you meant MY left!" Make sure everybody's straight on this one.

- And then just check the ribbons, yell "Clear!", and run off the ramp. No way you need to worry about whether or not you're connected to your glider at this point 'cause that was the very first thing you took care of and verified when you got to the back of the ramp.

Ever notice how all these assholes just keep reinforcing each other's stupidity?
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

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http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21474
fatal accident in Israel
Carm Moreno - 2012/02/08 16:15:49 UTC

It can happen anytime anywhere anyhow. It is part of nature. It still does not make it any easier for the ones left behind. :|
Yeah Carm, these tragedies which befall people who never do hook-in checks of any kind are just as inevitable as the tides. Absolutely nothing we can do to put the slightest dent in the statistics.
Be safe!!
"Whoa! I was about to run off the ramp unhooked! But then I remembered that last week Carm wrote to be safe. And that made me stop and think about whether or not I had done a hang check when I got to the back of the ramp. Thanks Carm! Owe ya big time!"

Yeah, that'll help.

Carm, was there some point in your life at which you WEREN'T a total waste of space?
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21474
fatal accident in Israel
TheNewGuy - 2012/02/08 19:12:33 UTC
Ohio
Joined: 2011/12/22
Christopher LeFay - 2011/04/28 11:06:27 UTC
Istanbul

Still, maybe I'll hook a bell in my carabiner to be removed when I hook-in... or a strap that runs from the base bar to the carabiner. It's one of those things that doesn't tolerate less than one hundred percent success, and I'm a ninety percent sort of guy - tops.
I like this idea! I think I will use this myself. I have only scooter towed so far but maybe I can start a habit now that will be important later on... Thanks.
- Yeah, that sounds like a SUPER idea! I think you should start using it!
With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.
- So what have the assholes who've been scooter towing you been having you do to meet and comply with your rating requirements? Just kidding.

- Yeah, start a habit now. That sounds like a pretty good plan.
George Whitehill - 1981/05

If, just before committing to a launch, a second check is done EVERY TIME and this is made a HABIT, this tragic mistake could be eliminated. Habit is the key word here.

In the new USHGA rating system, for each flight of each task "the pilot must demonstrate a method of establishing that he/she is hooked in, just prior to launch." The purpose here is obvious.
Maybe you should write an article for the magazine. I'll bet you could get a lot of people on board with this approach.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21474
fatal accident in Israel
ddreg - 2012/02/08 19:43:16 UTC
Point of the Mountain, bunny hill

I use a simple method:

Ready to launch.
Check hook in.
Launch.

If I put the glider down to wait for a cycle or check traffic. I go through the same steps again.

Ready to launch.
Check hook in.
Launch.

Hang check: You need people to help you. And once you've done one, you probably won't think about it again.
Aussie method: You just assume you are hooked in once in your harness.

Always right before launch. Say:
Ready to launch.
Check hook in.
Launch.

You can check the pull of the hang strap if the conditions are smooth. Or just look back and glance at the carabiner before picking up the glider. It only takes a second to glance back.

That's what I've been doing.
Anybody listening to this guy?

(Anybody know who this guy is?)
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21474
fatal accident in Israel
CAL - 2012/02/08 19:47:59 UTC
Ogden

once i have my harness on, i have a hold of the Carabiner and never let it go until i am hooked in, if unhook it stays in my hand till hooked in again
Great, CAL! That means if you're standing under a glider there's absolutely no possibility that you're not connected to it (seeing as how you couldn't have a carabiner and a downtube in a hand at the same time without noticing). And if you start your day off right, with a good cup of coffee and a solid breakfast, you should be able to deal with the situation even if you're wrong.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21474
fatal accident in Israel
Patrick O'Donnell - 2012/02/08 22:15:49 UTC
London, Ontario
Intermediate (H3)

My condolences to family and friends we are all family in this sport we love and to loose another fellow pilot is way too many.
- If you think for a nanosecond that "we" are all a family then you haven't been paying a whole helluva lot of attention to what goes on, don't give a rat's ass, or both.

- Sometimes another "fellow" pilot is way too many, sometimes it's not nearly enough. You hafta look at these things on a case by case basis.
This is not a sport to take lightly but one that takes constant attention which we seem to forget at times.
- No, it's not a sport to take lightly.

- But, fortunately for us, although it's a good thing to maintain constant attention, it tends not to require it. If it did we'd all be dead after about an hour and a half. I'd be lucky to last twenty minutes.

- Even more fortunately for us, on this particular and most critical of all issues...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25550
Failure to hook in.
Steve Davy - 2011/10/24 10:27:04 UTC

OK- how many times does he need confirm that he is hooked in? And when would be the best time to make that confirmation?
Brian McMahon - 2011/10/24 21:04:17

Once, just prior to launch.
Christian Williams - 2011/10/25 03:59:58 UTC

I agree with that statement.

What's more, I believe that all hooked-in checks prior to the last one before takeoff are a waste of time, not to say dangerous, because they build a sense of security which should not be built more than one instant before commitment to flight.
...we only really need to have our shit together for a period of several seconds for each flight. But for those several seconds we REALLY need to have our shit together.
R.I.P. and may someone watch over all of us.
Yeah, God's gonna handle this problem. Give this a moment or two of thought: I'm alive and Kunio isn't.
I once saw a guy going to launch in his sandles and figured since he was well experienced this was what he wanted however upon inquiring he changed his shoes.
Great catch. How many of his children did he name after you?
We all need watching.
- What were you watching during the five second period before this guy started his launch run? His shoe laces?

- Did this guy do a hook-in check during those five seconds?

- What was everyone else watching during that five second window when everyone with a pair of eyes has probably the best opportunity he ever will to prevent a tragedy?

- But I'll bet there were a half a dozen assholes watching to make sure he did a fucking hang check and had his backup loop engaged, carabiner locked, and chinstrap buckled at the back of the ramp a couple of minutes before he said "Clear!", right?
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21474
fatal accident in Israel
Christopher LeFay - 2012/02/09 04:44:19 UTC
Istanbul
I like this idea! I think I will use this myself. I have only scooter towed so far but maybe I can start a habit now that will be important later on.... Thanks.
Note that this will do nothing to assure that your legs are secured.
But you've been using this bell strategy for about nine months now, right Christopher? So you gonna give us a report on how it's been working out?

Well, you're still here so the only conclusion we can draw is that it's been working GREAT! Sorry, stupid question.
once i have my harness on, i have a hold of the Carabiner and never let it go until i am hooked in, if unhook it stays in my hand till hooked in again
Imagine a ring attached to the back of a glove to secure the carabiner to: the carabiner would always be hooked to something.
Yeah, no chance whatsoever that anyone would find a contraption like that to be a totally idiotic pain in the ass and disconnect it for any reason. Hard to fathom why nobody's implemented a strategy like this before.
Still, leg loops...
Oh well...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4247
Hook in failure in New Zealand
Jim Rooney - 2006/09/24 21:19:29 UTC

There isn't one sure-fire answer.
If there was, we'd all be doing it already.
There just isn't one surefire answer. If there were, we'd all be doing it already. And, of course, Rooney would've be doing it LONG before the rest of us muddling amateurs had things doped out.
These days, the closer I get to launch, the more often I tug on my leg loops and hang strap while vocalizing the action.
Christopher LeFay - 2011/04/29 06:50:57 UTC

Tad,

I appreciate your passion on this issue, and take your point. I think it a small but essential matter to teach students that a "clear" call is predicated on confirming connection. I perform a step through, rotate, examine and test the carabiner gate before picking up the glider as a complement to a hang check; if I subsequently set the glider down on launch, picking it up again is predicated on another such test. Variance in launch conditions doesn't recommend lifting the glider to test as a routine in the moment immediately before launch- I favor routine that doesn't include variation/judgment as a component ("conditions are too strong/unstable for a safe strap-tight glider lift, so this time I'll..."). Still, the method I've used does have a leg-loop sized whole in it; I'm adding leg-loop confirmation to the step-through routine. If conditions allow for it, a strap-tight glider lift will be included.
- Aren't you gonna caution everybody about how variance in launch conditions doesn't recommend lifting the glider to test as a routine in the moment immediately before launch? Don't you think it's a bit irresponsible not to?

- Or have you discovered that - as those of us who have done lift and tug our entire careers have always known - that the variance in launch conditions which doesn't recommend lifting the glider to test as a routine in the moment immediately before launch is a fiction fabricated by assholes who simply refuse to do lift and tug and are hell bent on pulling everyone else down to their levels of stupidity?
Christian Williams - 2011/10/25 03:59:58 UTC

What's more, I believe that all hooked-in checks prior to the last one before takeoff are a waste of time, not to say dangerous, because they build a sense of security which should not be built more than one instant before commitment to flight.
- To what degree do those tugs on your leg loops and hang strap and vocalizing of the action reassure you that you'll be securely hooked in the instant before you commit to launch?

- What is it you're vocalizing as you're doing these checks?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15337
unhooked take off clip
George Stebbins - 2010/02/16 21:36:38 UTC

I've been known to mutter under my breath as I walk to launch: "I am not hooked in, I am not hooked in." Hey, it can't hurt! (And I've been caught doing it louder than under my breath a time or two...)
Lemme guess...

"Relax everyone - I just checked to make sure I'm hooked in. How are things looking out front? Anybody going up? What frequency are people using today?"

- At what point do you STOP tugging on your leg loops and hang strap while vocalizing the action? I guess after four or five repetitions it's pretty obvious that you're OK and anything further would just be stupid, right?
Christopher LeFay - 2012/02/09 04:44:19 UTC

The more excited by a need to launch, the more paranoid/OCD I become...
- Yeah, it's not like there's much chance of you plummeting to the rocks below the ramp when the day has shut down, the ramp's wide open, and your prospects are no better than another boring sled run to the LZ. It's when the lapse rate is minus twelve that you've REALLY gotta be on your toes.

- When and under what circumstances do you tend to be most paranoid/OCD about OTHER PEOPLE'S LAUNCHES? Just kidding.
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21474
fatal accident in Israel
Robert Seckold - 2012/02/09 05:40:18 UTC
Australia

I tried to resist but with all this talk about bells and other methods that rely on memory or lifting a 33kilo/72lb glider to check for a tight hang strap. If you rely on your memory your chances of failure are forever there.

This is why I use the Aussie method. As I built my glider I attach my harness to my glider, NEVER to be unhooked until the end of the flight in the pack up area. I would no more forget to attach my harness whilst building my glider as I would forget to put the key in the ignition to start my car.

Now leg loops, those I could forget, however unlikely, but at least I would still be hooked in.
I tried to resist but with all this talk about bells and other methods that rely on memory...
Agreed. ANY strategy which relies on memory is dangerous, worse than useless crap.
...or...
EXACTLY! Lift and tug does not rely on MEMORY - unless you wanna count muscle memory. And if you wanna count muscle memory it's not safe to leave the ramp anyway 'cause flying itself is HEAVILY dependent on muscle memory.
Rob Kells - 2005/12

Each of us agrees that it is not a particular method, but rather the fear of launching unhooked that makes us diligent to be sure we are hooked in every time before starting the launch run.
Lift and tug relies on muscle memory, fear, and the minimal intelligence it takes to understand that the danger of being unhooked at the moment of launch dwarfs to the point of insignificance any other problem or threat you're likely to encounter on the rest of the flight.

And unfortunately, Robert, you don't have that minimal intelligence and there's not a snowball's chance in hell that you're ever gonna develop it.
...lifting a 33kilo/72lb glider to check for a tight hang strap.
MY GOD!!! A 72 POUND GLIDER!!! Only now do I realize what a ridiculous task this is to ask of a hang glider pilot! Well, it SEEMED like a good idea but...

NO!!! WAIT!!! I have a solution!

- Have the crane that lifted you and your glider from behind the ramp where you connected the harness and suited up and then lowered you onto the ramp stand by for an extra minute or two.

- When you're prepared to launch signal him to lift the glider until you feel the tension through your leg loops.

That sound like a plan or what!!!
This is why I use the Aussie method.
No Robert, you use the Aussie Method 'cause you're a moron. EVERYONE - bar NO ONE - who uses the Aussie Method is a moron.
As I built my glider I attach my harness to my glider, NEVER to be unhooked until the end of the flight in the pack up area.
Or...

http://ozreport.com/13.003
Forbes, day one, task one
Davis Straub - 2009/01/03 20:50:24 UTC
Forbes Airport, New South Wales

Meanwhile there was dust devil carnage in the launch line. A dust devil happened right in front of Michael Williams and he and two other pilots who were hooked in were pulled up and flipped over. One pilot had two people trying to hold him down and they had to let go.
Davis Straub - 2010/01/12

2010 Forbes Flatlands - 10th day

Vicki called to report that a dust devil came through the launch area around 1 PM, flipped over Leroy's Dragonfly and broke the fuselage. This is the time that we would have been launching. The tug was tied down.
...until the emergency response team cuts your suspension while gently lowering you onto the stretcher fifty yards behind what used to be the launch line - whichever comes first.
I would no more forget to attach my harness whilst building my glider as I would forget to put the key in the ignition to start my car.
Great!!! So what the fuck does that hafta do with your connection status when you're at launch position at the front of the ramp fifteen or twenty minutes later?
Now leg loops, those I could forget, however unlikely, but at least I would still be hooked in. :)
- We're not worried about LIKELY and UNLIKELY in this game, Robert. We're trying to use the best sane practices, procedures, and equipment to minimize the probabilities of fucking up and getting fucked up. If you never NEVER load test your sidewires as part of your preflight procedures the chances of you blowing a sidewire in flight are microscopic. But you load test the fucking sidewires EVERY time you set up your glider to make the chances of blowing one in flight ten times MORE microscopic.

- You don't KNOW you'll be hooked in.

-- You'll be ASSUMING you're hooked in because of a procedure you endeavor to always follow. That may be a really good assumption but it's still an assumption - no matter how much lipstick you layer onto it.

-- ASSUMING you connected your harness to the glider and it's still connected at the time you launch, your HARNESS will be connected to the glider right after launch but you may or may not be.

-- If you separate from your harness you will also be separated from your glider, parachute, hook knife, and granola bars.

- You could raise the certainty level of being connected to your glider, harness, and parachute by lifting the glider six inches a second before you launch but it weighs 72 pounds and that would be too goddam much trouble - and then you might not have enough in the way of energy reserves to carry it to the breakdown area after you land and thus might die of starvation, thirst, or exposure or be eaten by a dingo five yards short.

- Shithead.
Zack C
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Zack C »

Tad Eareckson wrote:So do it [zip] before you start on tow right after you prone out on the dolly at launch position - like I do.

- The only people who have to worry about landing right after they come off the cart are 130 pound Greenspot morons.
In a bad situation the pilot or tow operator may release near the ground.
Tad Eareckson wrote:- And it's not like you'll need to be upright to deal with a narrow dry riverbed with large rocks strewn all over the place or a field filled with seven foot high corn anyway.
No, but I'm not crazy about coming down prone on pavement.
Tad Eareckson wrote:
Zack C wrote:...although I've hit the boot of my pod with my heels on a launch run before.
But a nonissue, right?
All but once when I hit it running down a training hill at Lookout and nearly tripped.
Tad Eareckson wrote:You never land anywhere but other than the Happy Acres putting greens?!
Back when it used to actually rain in the summer, we'd often have 8" or so high grass at Hearne. I would not feel comfortable wheel landing in that with the small wheels I have.
Tad Eareckson wrote:Yeah, I too wanted something custom fitted when I bought my FIRST Racer pod from Betty. But I had to buy another one to GET something that I could fly without being crippled.
Interesting...care to elaborate?

Zack
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