launching

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: launching

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5730
Airspeed is What You Need - DON'T LET YOUR GUARD DOWN!
Frederick Wagner - 2017/07/28 05:15:53 UTC
Altadena, CA

From Steve Murillo (who has flow from aircraft carriers):
What? From when they flush the toilets?
Arthur Simineau and I decided to go to Crestline this past Saturday. Winds on launch were light and variable, I'd guess 2-8 mph, blowing mostly straight in with the occasional minor cross from the NW.

I'm flying a Sport 2 155. As I approached launch with Art on my nose, hang check and hook in check were standard.
Fascinating. Why not back up a bit further and tell us how you stuffed the battens and tensioned the wing - in the standard fashion?

This is fuckin' WEIRD. Absolutely NOTHING to do with ANYTHING. Makes a point of announcing that he's doing the standard Grebloville flagrant violation of the hook-in check SOP. Must be getting some kind of kickback from Joe and/or u$hPa.
Standing on launch with wings balanced, wind at almost zero, I could see what I thought was a nice breeze coming up the hill. I called for "clear" and Arthur obliged.
By doing what? Not continuing to hold on a sidewire? Or did you have him on the nose to make sure you didn't get blown over in an 8 mph surge? Or was he one these very capable helpers who positions himself on the tail (of the glider)?
I began my launch as I normally do, which was not enough. About half way down the ramp I did not feel the glider picking up off my shoulders as has been the case in almost every launch I've ever had.

By this time I was committed. I pulled in slightly on the nose...
Neat trick. Are you absolutely positive you were hooked in?
...and accelerated through the remainder of the ramp, using it all, barley clearing...
Why were you clearing barley during a launch run?
...but getting airborne.
Truly amazing.
Art later reported that he observed the control bar falling...
...cutting a neat, sharply defined, four foot wide path through the barley.
...not rising, and thought to himself "this is going to hurt". Image

The fact that my adrenaline kicked in at the last second gave me enough umph to get into the air. But here's the lesson learned: When in doubt, especially at a strange launch, KEEP THE NOSE DOWN AND CHARGE THE HILL!

Had I started the first half of my run as aggressively as the second half, I would not be writing this.
As would have been the case if you'd started your launch on a truck platform or on a launch cart behind a 115 horsepower turbocharged tug with one of those Tad-O-Links many of us suddenly became happy with right after the Zack Marzec inconvenience fatality.
We Kagel pilots are so used to the fairly strong winds and steep launch at Kagel, we are used to getting airborne in just a few steps.
What's a "step"?
But Crestline launch is less steep, and the winds that day were very light. The perfect one-two combination to put an unwary pilot on the ropes!
And the barley clearing so much less effective.
Lesson learned, and I hope someone else will benefit from this.

Sincerely,
Steve R. Murillo
Fred Ballard - 2017/08/04 04:16:47 UTC

Was this the actual Crestline launch or was it at Marshall?
Which one has the barley?
NMERider - 2017/08/04 20:48:30 UTC

This sounds to me exactly like Crestline launch. Marshall has two, much better ramps. Yesterday, we had a pilot get turned by a thermal on the Crestline ramp.
Must've been using a Tad-O-Link. A proper weak link will break before you can get into too much trouble.
He did not have the speed or altitude to recover and it cost him a leading edge and other repairs. No injury however. The pilot before him had to run like heck all the way to the bottom of the ramp.
Pretty cool the way you get to use the entire runway length on launch. On landing your not allowed to think about touching down until you get to the old Frisbee at the centerpoint.
The first of the three pilots got airborne in just a few steps in very light winds and immediately climbed. This was all due to thermal activity from the convective development overhead. There are some rules of thumb to safely launching from Crestline in nil to light winds. When visiting an unfamiliar site it is always a good idea to ask the locals about any ramp issues.
Like Steve Murillo? Does he count?
The answers may surprise you.
Like "Never had any problem before."
It's also a good idea to watch one or more local pilots launch in such marginal conditions.
Or hell, just wait for the videos.
In the original post there is not mention of the number and location of streamers along the length of the ramp. It does vary from time to time and in strange conditions it's a very good practice to install your own extra streamers in order to verify weather...
There's always gonna be weather of some description.
...or not...
Whether or not it's flyable.
...the ramp is filled in with wind from top to bottom.

Another peculiarity of the Crestline ramp is that wind does not equal lift and no-wind does not equal no safe launching. You can have sink on the ramp even though the wind is filled in and you can have easy launching conditions even those the streamers are nearly limp. You can also have wind and lift on the top of the ramp and run or waddle right through it and out the other side, only to drop to your knees and skid down the ramp.

There are many other issues with that ramp that I will save for any pilot who approaches me in the Crestline setup area or on the ramp.

Here is an example of launching the ramp safely in dead calm conditions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBvrIzieSVk
I really like this comment at 1:47:
NMERider - 2016/11/22

I'm not Jesse Owens.
Very few of us are, Jonathan. (Nail on the fuckin' head.)
Steve Murillo - 2017/08/10 18:30:51 UTC
Manhattan Beach

Jonathan, you are correct. This was Crestline launch, not Marshall. I've launched Crestline many times before, but never had an issue. This one caught me a bit off guard, but my instinct for survival kicked in and I was able to accelerate the last part of the run.

To my fellow pilots - guard up!
Mike Moacanin - 2017/09/10 01:42:09 UTC
Somis

Yes ... airspeed is pretty much key to any takeoff -- applies to powered pilots as well.
Tell me about the glider launches that aren't powered. They're driven or carried of to high points where they're powered into flight by gravity, leg muscle, wind, thermal flow, some combination of the above. Or they're pulled up off the runway by something with a powerful engine.
Matthew Hendershot - 2017/09/14 23:54:51 UTC

Here's one of my launches from a couple years ago at Crestline.
Thermal coming through picked up my right wing with unexpected force!
I feel I had a decently strong launch, and somewhat panicky overreaction, but managed to correct.
Also--note the streamer at the bottom of the ramp. It's pointed uphill as I begin my run, but at the end--it's pretty wonky...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frkvwQEApnM
Nice smoking gun thread illustrating what a load of crap the definition of a hang glider as a foot launchable aircraft is.

Foot launching these things minus the benefit of a cliff, really steep slope or ramp, strong steady wind, thermal blast, some combination of some of he aforementioned is a marginal, iffy, dangerous proposition that's gonna get real world fallible humans injured and killed at near unsustainable rates.

Wanna do it safely - eliminate the foot/running bullshit, hook it up to something with a powerful engine, roll it up to near twice the airspeed a runner would be able to generate in no wind. (And note that doubling airspeed necessitates quadrupling power.)
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: launching

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5806
Glider Turtled (Flipped) on Ramp Wednesday
NMERider - 2017/11/10 00:16:06 UTC

When we arrived on launch yesterday early afternoon, it wasn't just windy but gusty and switchy. I decided to set up far back behind the saddle to avoid the breeze. The first three gliders to launch showed that the air was pretty turbulent at both the main ramp and the saddle. I think it was the fourth glider and I was busy assembling my gear but heard the commotion and looked up just as the glider was flipping past vertical. It came to a rest on its kingpost. The pilot was unscathed and the glider didn't look bad other that some visible dirt and a bent downtube. There may be a keel mounted video from the third glider in line. We'll find out eventually.

I don't know where the pilot started on the ramp when he cleared his wire crew but I'd like to reiterate some important points:

When the airflow is strong and especially when it gusty or switchy, it's generally safer to get as far forward along the ramp as possible without the wire crew being at risk. The airflow is cleaner farther down the ramp and the glider is that much further from the hillside. The lift tends to be stronger farther down the ramp which helps getting away and over the wire crew as they duck. just a few feet forward or back can make a big difference.

Just some food for thought. Hopefully, the pilot and wire crew chime in at some point about the incident.

The inverted glider is vulnerable to more damage. There were four of us attending to the glider so we flew it upside down and floated it back to the setup area. We balanced it on the kingpost on top of a piece of carpet with nose into the wind. Next we rotated the glider on the kingpost so the tail was into the wind and placed another piece of carpet where the nose would touch the ground. Then we raised the keel so the wind got underneath the top and gently blew the glider over onto the control frame. The leading edges were spared further dirt and abrasion this way.

The more important takeaway here is to get out into the cleaner airflow before wire crew release when conditions are robust. I launched from the saddle and it was pretty strong. Normally I start pretty far back and get a get run going. Instead I had my wire crewman walk me up close to the lip then waited until my glider stayed balanced without his input before launching.
When we arrived on launch yesterday early afternoon, it wasn't just windy but gusty and switchy. I decided to set up far back behind the saddle to avoid the breeze. The first three gliders to launch showed that the air was pretty turbulent at both the main ramp and the saddle. I think it was the fourth glider and I was busy assembling my gear but heard the commotion and looked up just as the glider was flipping past vertical.
What was it like a couple thousand feet below in the LZ yesterday early afternoon? How many special procedures do you need to follow, adjust, modify, describe in order to not dangerously fuck up a tow launch? What do you need in the way of crew to get a towed glider safely airborne out of a tow field when the conditions two thousand feet above are as you described.

And let's not forget the issues involved in getting gliders up to launches like Kagel and vehicles shuttled down.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: launching

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=35845
Blown Launch 4/1/2017
Jack Barth - 2018/01/19 22:32:18 UTC

I had flown 38 yrs at the E and most of my fellow Eteamers had blown launch at least once. I guess I couldn't be the exception.
--
H4 (1979) Lake Elsinore. Ca. U2 160 (Sweet)
"If Your One Who Doesn't Succeed At First Maybe Hanggliding's Not For You"

"Don't take life seriously it isn't permanent"
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: launching

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5863
Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good
Richard Shaw - 2018/04/25 20:31:18 UTC

I had always thought of myself as a better than average pilot, that's probable why complacency played a large roll in what could end up being a career ender for me.

A couple of weekends ago the day was looking less than average so a small group of pilots decided to fly Mt. Lukens to change things up.

After driving up the washed out access road we all sat up our gliders, I was the third off, the first two pilots made it off with what looked like more effort than was discussed before launch. I stepped up to launch and was in a hurry to catch up with my buddys that just left. The conditions seemed to be getting lighter so I decided to take two steps to my left and several steps back, (this was in my mind to build up speed in-order to compensate for light or no winds).

This choice complicated my launch in three ways.

1) It changed my launch line down the hill.

2) It made me completely lose site of launch and my path across the ground cover.

3) Transitioning from flat ground to a reasonably steep slop requires a larger angle of attack change (that I didn't pull off)

I yelled clear and ran to the edge of launch and started down trying to pick my way through the brush not to trip, as I began to fly away my right wing tip brushed the top of a bush putting me into a spin, I hit the ground about 100' down from launch. I walked away without a scratch, the glider received two tears on the leading edge and one bent down tube.
---
"Keep thy airspeed up, lest the ground come from below and smite thee".
William Kershner
Complicated your launch in three ways? That's not COMPLICATED. If you want COMPLICATED try tow launching - all that extra equipment, bridles, releases, tow lines, dollies, tugs, engines, drivers, launch assistants... All that extra complexity is what makes tow launching twenty or thirty times more dangerous than just running your glider off a mountain - the way God intended this sport to be conducted. Just ask Rick Masters if you don't believe me.

Keep It Simple Stupid. Give me reasonably steep slop over flatlands and all that Rube Goldberg crap any day of the week.
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TheFjordflier
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Re: launching

Post by TheFjordflier »

Tad Eareckson wrote: http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5863

Keep It Simple Stupid. Give me reasonably steep slop over flatlands and all that Rube Goldberg crap any day of the week.
I can't do it much simpler and easier than this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01ofoSkJi24


(Still not possible to embed a Vimeo video.)

Edit 04.01.2020
---
original:
http://vimeo.com/285611665
WATERFALL EXIT 2018 (4K) on Vimeo
TheFjordflier - 2018/08/18 10:46 UTC
dead
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: launching

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Can't even see that one at all using the link. Also couldn't find a similar URL from the recent videos on your site.

The most recent one:

http://vimeo.com/289326432
CRAZY (4K)

however, seems a pretty good match for the context. Would that be what you'd intended?

And yeah, I need to get in touch with Zack and see about going from phpBB 3.0.11 to 3.0.14. The Tapatalk takeover a bit over eleven months ago was an unmitigated horror and I was happy beyond description to get things back to the point we did - and was and am afraid to touch anything without understanding possible implications. But yeah, it's high time for us/me to make an effort to get back up to full speed.
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TheFjordflier
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Re: launching

Post by TheFjordflier »

Not sure what happened, but it's working for me.
Link:
Edit:
Nah, it was about cliff launches. The ones that Red don't like.
As in this thread: http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26919&start=40
Edit 04.01.2020
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: launching

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Yeah, apparently just a temporary glitch.

Boy do I enjoy watching people giving themselves deliberate, distinct false senses of security just prior to every launch.

My Wondershare Video Converter Ultimate was only allowing me to download at 360 resolution. Looked like total crap. Switched to AllMyTube and got it at 1080.

And whenever Red doesn't like something I tend to go in the opposite direction. Finding out he's a Dvorak typist sure does complicate things though.
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TheFjordflier
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Re: launching

Post by TheFjordflier »

You can download the original file, plus some other resolutions directly from Vimeo.
Just click on the download button, and chose your file. (or maybe that's what you did)

In that cliff launch thread, red wrote: Learn how to cliff launch if you will, but do NOT try to learn how on a real cliff, where it's Do-Or-Die.

Can anyone on this forum explain to me how I could have trained for my cliff launches other than on a real cliff? (where it's Do-Or-Die)
On a slope? On a ramp? From the roof of a garage?
Not sure if he knows the difference between a slope, steep slope, ramp or a cliff. Or maybe it's me that have no clue.
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TheFjordflier
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Re: launching

Post by TheFjordflier »

Tad Eareckson wrote:Boy do I enjoy watching people giving themselves deliberate, distinct false senses of security just prior to every launch.
Thanks to Kite Strings ;)
That's probably the most important thing I ever learned regarding hang gliding. Too bad it came so late in my career.
Standing at the edge like that is frightening enough. Worrying about the connection to the glider on top of that doesn't help much either.
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