Zack C - 2011/12/17 14:56:03 UTCThis discussion should be off-line (actually, it should never have existed in the first place), but it's kind of late for that...bobk wrote:Just so that I understand you, Zack, is that the extent of the "mistreatment" that you've spoken about?
There's really nothing I can say that Tad hasn't already said better, but in the interest of hearing it from someone else...
1. You continually misrepresent Tad's statements.
2. You banish him to the basement without any justification other than some faux 'experiment'.
3. You hear a rumor concerning Tad's personal life that was already addressed by the legal system decades ago and somehow decide it has some kind of relevancy to US Hawks.
4. You thus decide it is your duty to pry into Tad's personal life (which is 'none of your goddam business'), and as much as Tad would rather not talk to you about it, he is forced to to straighten the record from your unnamed source.
5. You then reference this discussion publicly, forcing Tad to straighten the record publicly, and maintain your reference was vague enough that it was his choice to bring it up. You probably believe that, but it ain't hard to read between the lines:
- 'The topic we discussed on the phone'? That must be pretty bad...it can't even be mentioned. Couldn't be the cussing or anything else Bob has criticized Tad for before as Bob's never been shy about that stuff.
- 'Safe place for people of varying ages?' I'm pretty sure he means 'safe place for children' since there's not a whole lot that's safe for children but not adults.
- And Tad has not given Bob assurances that children are safe with Tad on the forum?
- So we have an unmentionable topic involving Tad making US Hawks unsafe for children. Not a big stretch to suspect Tad is a child molester...and it's human nature to suspect the worst.
6. Probably not many people read the basement, so this personal issue is somewhat buried, but you then feel the need to reference it on the main forum without any explanation of relevancy.
7. Finally, you ban Tad from your forum, rendering your self-righteous judgment that he has not paid enough for his crime, with only vague references to the unsubstantiated belief that his presence on the forum is a threat to children as an explanation.
So yeah, I can kinda see why Tad would be pissed at you.
I'm glad at least that when you solicited members' opinions on 'how to handle' the situation they were mostly silent except to express distaste in the subject being broached at all.No, I'm not going to try to 'correct' Tad, as I don't know anything about his past personal life, it's 'none of my goddam business', it has no relevancy to hang gliding or the mission of this forum, and I'm not about to get on a high horse and moralize.bobk wrote:Zack, you can ignore this fundamental problem and blame me for this fiasco or you can provide feedback to try to help Tad understand where he's gone astray and to hopefully correct his thinking.
I don't know whether you were genuinely doing what you felt was the right thing to do or just looking for convenient justification to finally can Tad, but I believe your actions were inappropriate and set a terrible precedent for your organization.
Yep, the OTHER thing I'm always gonna be remembered on The Bob Show as is the nut case who wanted to:1. You continually misrepresent Tad's statements.
on pain of rating revocation. I wonder how many hundreds of hours I spent trying to deal with that crap when I could've been moving the conversation forward.A - Require ALL pilots to launch with a tight hang strap in ALL conditions.
Half the time the justification was a faux experiment. The other two thirds I was being disciplined for some undefined transgression. Bob could never quite remember which but tended to favor the latter.2. You banish him to the basement without any justification other than some faux 'experiment'.
Too bad Bob wasn't properly evaluated in grade school and advised to pursue some other career path.Abraham Lincoln
No man has a good enough memory to make a successful liar.
Oh well, Bob can fool the total morons with which he wants to build his organization all of the time and come up with some pretense to silence anybody he can't.You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.
Bob was ALWAYS gonna ban me. If this manna from heaven hadn't dropped in his lap his "experiment" would've proven his predictions right - even if the wire had gone totally dead for "about a month".7. Finally, you ban Tad from your forum, rendering your self-righteous judgment that he has not paid enough for his crime, with only vague references to the unsubstantiated belief that his presence on the forum is a threat to children as an explanation.
Don't be too glad. Bob was ASSUMING (always one of his favorite pastimes) that everyone would be rushing to his side with pitchforks and torches and he'd be able to say, "I'm really sorry, Tad - but it's pretty obvious that your continued presence here is just too disruptive for our organization to be able to function and accomplish its goals." When that backfired he had to create other justifications.I'm glad at least that when you solicited members' opinions on 'how to handle' the situation they were mostly silent except to express distaste in the subject being broached at all.
- Not a snowball's chance in hell. And I can - AND WILL - document that from the public record beyond any shadow of a doubt, reasonable or otherwise.I don't know whether you were genuinely doing what you felt was the right thing to do...
- Bob has such defective wiring and so many loose screws that he'd be incapable of making the distinction between right and wrong even if he cared what it was.
What organization? About a dozen people who make a post every now and then which averages under a dozen hits?...or just looking for convenient justification to finally can Tad, but I believe your actions were inappropriate and set a terrible precedent for your organization.
Yeah, Bob you GUTTED your "organization". You:...terrible precedent...
- betrayed damn near all the principles you laid down in your mission statement - which were just about all Hawks had going for it.
- ha've demonstrated that your word means NOTHING and you can never be trusted.
- have revealed yourself to be a bigot.
- sent a message to every current and potential member that if he doesn't toe YOUR line well enough to suit you you'll dig into his personal background and try to use whatever you can get to your political advantage. (And I'll tell ya sumpin', Bob... I know A LOT of hang gliding people who'd REALLY prefer that you not do that.)
Davis, Jack, and Rooney are obvious stupid, lying, scumbags. It only took about three interactions with Rooney when he was a Two at Ridgely a bit over nine years ago for me to realize he was somebody I wanted absolutely nothing to do with - and another one or two to despise him.
Bob comes across as an intelligent, articulate, principled, personable, likable guy and it's really hard to hate him to an appropriate, proportional degree - and that makes him way more dangerous than the people with whom he aligns himself.
My stated reason for participating in US Hawks was to help form an organization which would produce instructors and tow operators whom I could trust not to maim or kill my (or anyone's) nephew (or niece). There's no way in hell that can happen following the precedent Bob has established and I'll do what I can to make sure it never gets off the ground - even though it's my strong belief that it's nothing but smoking wreckage at this point anyway.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25321
Stop the Stupids at the USHPA BOD meeting
And I'm biding my time on the other one too.Mark G. Forbes - 2011/09/29 02:26:23 UTC
Re: proposals
It's not just concern for meet directors and policy makers...it's about our continued existence as an association. It's about minimizing the chance of our getting sued out of existence. We're one lawsuit away from that, all the time, and we think hard about it.
P.S. Bob,
Even if - by some unimaginable twist of fate - US Hawks were to come out of this technically sound, I'd still steer my nephew, or anybody else, widely clear of the organization 'cause, like you said...
Some things are WAY more important than a hang gliding club - or, for that matter, hang gliding PERIOD.Bob Kuczewski - 2011/12/15 01:26:16 UTC
Some things are more important than a hang gliding club.
.. Looks great