Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

[Tad Eareckson]

Looks like an attempted release.

Yep...



Hard to draw any other conclusion looking at a good crop from that one. Very good catch.

- Odd that neither he nor any of the other assholes present said anything about it.

- Hard to guess as to whether or not it was better than an attempt but there sure as hell wouldn't have been any doubt to anyone with access to the impact zone.

- Doubt it would've made much difference at that point.

I'm guessing those were coated wires.

Undoubtedly...



Quest Air has been involved in perfecting aerotowing for nearly 27 years now and it's totally unthinkable that they'd allow any dangerous or substandard equipment anywhere near the heads of the launch lines. Ditto for pilots with questionable qualifications. And it goes without saying that all the Tad-O-Linkers have been at an around all this plenty long enough to understand what's what and who's who.

Everybody... Go back five posts to my 2018/03/31 16:12:53 UTC. I had to do a major reorganization of the photo documentation in response to new and better stuff gradually becoming available. Major pain in the ass but this stuff's golden.

(Inadvertently pasted it in as a reply to this topic in this post - hence the "delay". (Sorry 'bout that.))

And note that sometime yesterday, 2018/04/02, Bob did some editing on his 2018/03/23 Quest collection and Photo 1050:



the one immediately preceding his single (Westmoreland launch) crash shot is now captioned: "Evgeniya Laritskaya". (Well done, T** at K*** S******.)

Starting to lose it, need a break.

(Actual posting time - 2018/04/03 04:45:00 UTC)

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55649
High Resolution versions

Davis Straub - 2018/04/02 12:40:08 UTC

Bob Grant send me the high resolution versions of the cart incident Here is the first shot.

Well written, Davis. High quality start to the second topic in this high quality analysis of this freak incident at this high quality operation.

http://ozreport.com/pub/images/Img_5946a.jpg


The pilot...

What "PILOT"?
- All I see is some stupid pro toad dope locked on a rope that he should've been off of a long time ago.
- How come neither he nor the other bozo on the other end of the rope that should've been dumped a long time ago is being identified?

...is pulled to his right...

Goddam near sideways. Wasn't he trained to stay inside of the Cone of Safety?

...but his legs and body are off to the left.

With his shoulders being pulled sideways by a 115 horsepower 914 Dragonfly - N2650C. Go figure. Must not have been trained how to properly employ weight shift to effectively and safely roll control his glider. Wonder how he managed to score his AT rating with that fundamental skill so wanting.

He is holding onto the hoses on both cradles.

Too bad he wasn't foot launching. Then all he'd have needed to do to bring his starboard wing back down would've been to run towards it to effect the requisite weight shift input...

069-25104-reversed
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1572/26142964830_289bc3f2cb_o.png


...and his hands would've been totally free to effect the easy reach to his bent pin barrel release and terminate the tow without incident. I wonder why Ryan Instant-Hands-Free-Release Voight isn't participating in this discussion and none of his students and admirers are pointing this out.

Speaking of which... I recorded Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney logged in yesterday at 2018/04/02 18:05:52 UTC. Odd that he's not giving us muppets any benefit of his boundless wisdom or pointing out that the obvious Tad-O-Links being used at both ends of the rope resulted in this guy needing to go to the hospital - just as he predicted and tried to warn us about.

Or for that matter...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up

Ryan Voight - 2009/11/03 05:24:31 UTC

It works best in a lockout situation... if you're banked away from the tug and have the bar back by your belly button... let it out. Glider will pitch up, break weaklink, and you fly away.

During a "normal" tow you could always turn away from the tug and push out to break the weaklink... but why would you?

Have you never pondered what you would do in a situation where you CAN'T LET GO to release? I'd purposefully break the weaklink, as described above. Instant hands free release

Jim Rooney - 2009/11/03 06:16:56 UTC

Please do not think for an instant that that thing isn't going to let go. It's going to snap so fast that you won't realize what happened till after it's happened.

As for being in a situation where you can't or don't want to let go, Ryan's got the right idea. They're called "weak" links for a reason. Overload that puppy and you bet your ass it's going to break.

You can tell me till you're blue in the face about situations where it theoretically won't let go or you can drone on and on about how "weaklinks only protect the glider" (which is BS btw)... and I can tell ya... I could give a crap, cuz just pitch out abruptly and that little piece of string doesn't have a chance in hell. Take your theory and shove it... I'm saving my a$$.

The base tube is on the cradle on the left but the wheel is partially below the cart tubes.

Yeah? So how come he's still on tow and how come the tow's being continued by his driver?

The cradles are on one of the three carts that have plastic cradles instead of wood. I'm going to assume the bottom of the base tube is 1 inch below the top of the cart tubes. Spinner is going to remake these cradles to raise them up above the cart tubes.

Well yeah. An obvious stage in Quest's ongoing effort to perfect aerotowing.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/03 19:37:19 UTC

See, most people are happy with how we do things. This isn't an issue for them. They just come out and fly. Thing's aren't perfect, but that's life... and life ain't perfect. You do what you can with what you've got and you move on.

But then there's a crowd that "knows better". To them, we're all morons that can't see "the truth".
(Holy god, the names I've been called.)

I have little time for these people.

It saddens me to know that the rantings of the fanatic fringe mask the few people who are actually working on things. The fanaticism makes it extremely hard to have a conversation about these things as they always degrade into arguments. So I save the actual conversations for when I'm talking with people in person.

Good thing none of the fanatic fringers from Tad's Hole in the Ground are around to mask his efforts actually working on things.

The pilot's position means that the glider will yaw to the left as it is doing and this will not correct the fact that this tow started with the right wind lifting.

How 'bout the conspicuously unidentified tug pilot's position relative to the glider and the tow pressure she's transmitting? Are those issues of any relevance with respect to what's going on with the glider?

http://ozreport.com/pub/images/Img_5957a.jpg


The pilot has released...

GREAT! End of problem! All is well now.

...both hoses.

Oh. The HOSES. The pilot can release BOTH hoses in this emergency situation but not ONE release to preclude the possibility of him getting his glider demolished and fuckin' neck broken. Oh well, they've got aerotowing pretty much perfected and an incredibly long track record so what are ya gonna do?

The left white wheel is now fully below the outer cart tubes. The bridle is pulling on the right down tube and right bracket. The base tube is not on either cradle. The pilot is still positioned with his upper body and head to his right and lower body to the left, therefore the glider continues to yaw to the left.

And still nobody's released. Or even reduced power a wee bit. Go figure.

http://ozreport.com/pub/images/Img_5962a.jpg


The cart is going left against its left wheel.

And being unabatedly pulled right by the tug at full power.

The pilot had dropped down to the left and has been pulled forward by the tow rope.

Forward? Is that the direction he's being pulled in this sequence?

He makes the natural response of bracing for his fall when it would be better for the glider to take the impact.

And you'd be one of the world's top experts on taking impacts...


http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident2.jpg
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident3.jpg


...wouldn't ya, Davis?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25015
Zippy pounds in

Davis Straub - 2011/09/02 18:37:09 UTC

Concussions are in fact very serious and have life long effects. The last time I was knocked out what in 9th grade football. I have felt the effects of that ever since. It changes your wiring.

On 1995/05/27 at an event at Culpeper, Virginia Christopher Reeve's horse balked at three foot jump. His natural response was to bring his arms forward to brace for his fall but fortunately his hands tangled in the reins so he didn't sustain any injuries to his arms. (And Lauren Eminently-Qualified-Tandem-Pilot Tjaden was at that event, by the way. Commented on it, too. (Funny she hasn't bothered to comment in any substantive manner on Zack Marzec, Jeff Bohl, James/Richard Westmoreland.))

The glider is yawed way to the left.

Yeah, he's certainly not getting any high marks for executing proper control inputs.

The left part of the control frame is pinned against the cart pushing it left.

And Evgeniya is still doing her utmost to get this glider safely airborne.

It's not clear whether the base tube would have slid across the cart tubes, if the wheel hadn't been there.

Who gives a flying fuck?

http://ozreport.com/pub/images/Img_5965a.jpg


It looks like the weaklink breaks when the pilot hits the ground.

- What weak link? Don't we muppets need to know the precise strength of this properly sized weak link...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meaneyman/35642942/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/meaneyman/35642828/

...so we too can use it as the focal point of our safe towing system to achieve the stellar outcome - a totally unscathed tug pilot - that James/Richard did?

- Why the fuck don't we KNOW whether or not the goddam weak link broke when the pilot hit the ground? Not enough aerotow experts and Safety Committee members around?

Click on the photos to get the full high resolution version.

Yeah? You click on Sequence Shot 3 (cropped):

http://ozreport.com/pub/images/incident2.jpg


it takes you to Sequence Shot 4 (full):

http://ozreport.com/pub/images/Img_5957a.jpg
http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/791/41148936032_e4097df8cd_o.jpg



and there is no full 3 version anywhere at any price. It's shoddy work and makes things confusing as hell and a major pain in the ass to organize. But what the hell... That works better for you and your buddies and worse for everybody else and the sport in general.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55649
High Resolution versions

An.Petrovich - 2018/04/03 00:58:09 UTC

Fast recovery to the pilot!!!

Yeah, so the pro toad motherfucker can identify himself and start filling in the major gaps in the record for us.

Very important lesson for everyone!

Fuck yeah! EVERYONE. There is absolutely NO ONE anywhere on the planet who thought this was a moronic clusterfuck from a shoddy operation run by total morons with total crap track records.

Btw, I like how Spinner was mentally trying to fix the turn. ))

So this:

2


is Spinner Kindt - Quest staffer, tandem thrill ride driver.

Eric's face on the last shot also looks very suitable to the situation... ))

Yeah...

6
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/incident4.jpg
http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/865/26320837657_a2ea7a8803_o.jpg


What was I just saying about a stupid clusterfuck?

NMERider - 2018/04/03 01:51:18 UTC

I haven't done any towing since SCFR 2011 where I also learned just before the comp.

And then put into effect at the comp...

12-02818
http://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3910/14608634212_2f636aa353_o.png

14-03123
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5154/14422541620_a48c55b758_o.png

20-03829
http://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2928/14422781117_a4a3b72ee6_o.png


...what you had learned just before - to always use an appropriate weak link with a finished length of 1.5 inches or less to increase the safety of the towing operation.

Following my early and somewhat sloppy tows, Dustin told me: Keep your engine in the middle.

Yep.

- Get that Cone of Safety tandem training and...

Bill Bryden - 2000/02

Dennis Pagen informed me several years ago about an aerotow lockout that he experienced. One moment he was correcting a bit of alignment with the tug and the next moment he was nearly upside down. He was stunned at the rapidity. I have heard similar stories from two other aerotow pilots.

...you'll never need to worry in the least about how actual air works in the REAL world.

- And make sure you have that engine properly secured to your aircraft with a properly tied loop of precision 130 pound test fishing line which will always immediately seize your engine...

Wills Wing / Blue Sky / Steve Wendt / Ryan Voight Productions - 2007/03

NEVER CUT THE POWER...



Reduce Gradually
Increase Gradually

...if it senses you may be getting into too much trouble.

- James/Richard probably didn't understand that he was supposed to keep his engine centered. Probably headed sideways 'cause he figured that would probably work better. And there was no apparent disagreement from Evgeniya so how much trouble could he expect to get into?

I think it speaks for itself.

Problem solved. Now let's try to find out what kind of fishing line we should all be using as the focal point of our safe towing system.

Thanks to Skydog Bob Grant for the vast amount of photography he contributes.

And the even vaster amount of photography this flatlander keeps out of public view so as to not shed too much light on what's going on at these dumps and thus endanger his ability to fly and hang out with the Kool Kids. Note his career total absence in any discussions of any actual substance.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55649
High Resolution versions

Gerry Grossnegger - 2018/04/03 02:45:10 UTC

Could the keel be broken, maybe from the sideways pull on the pilot & hang point while the back end on the keel is still in that (steep-sided, deep) notch in the support? Maybe with the control bar also out-of-square with the dolly?

And here I was thinking that we used weak links to...

Tost Flugzeuggerätebau

Weak links protect your aircraft against overloading.

...protect our aircraft against overloading - plus, of course, from keeping us from getting into too much trouble. Now I guess we're using whatever's making Davis happy at any given moment.

NMERider - 2018/04/03 06:52:07 UTC

The keel appears straight in the second to last photo with all four lower keel wires relatively taut. If it was broken wouldn't there be both slack and tight wires?

If the keel were broken prior to impact wouldn't this douchebag have felt and reported it?

Also wouldn't the rear wires being close to the rear cart support take the sideways force?
The keel sure looks broken in the end...

It is and was so reported. And what we see at "the end" is the glider recoiling from the impact that demolished the keel and cracked up this asshole's left elbow and wrist.

...but the loads on it during impact would be much greater.

And were. (There is a god.)

Haven't there been enough accidents with VG ropes and vario pods getting caught on carts and causing mayhem?

- Not by my way of thinking. This sport's majorly hurting for more effects of natural selection to kick in.

- How 'bout "accidents" precipitated by assholes getting on and/or pulling gliders they know will be impossible for the back end guys to release in any emergency situation? Weren't Donnell Hewett's Infallible Weak Link and the Flight Park Mafia's Standard Aerotow Weak Link open acknowledgements that they / we were perfectly happy to accept this insane situation from whenever until the end of time?

Why is it that readily foreseeable and similar accidents keep happening or repeating in this sport?

'Cause there aren't enough rank and filers calling criminally negligent motherfuckers criminally negligent motherfuckers. Hell, there aren't any now. They're all too busy sucking Flight Park Mafia, Mark G. Forbes, Tim Herr dick.

Harald Steen - 2018/04/03 10:03:12 UTC

Looks like a combination of high angle of attack / crosswind / not pulled in enough. Dolly needs a modification yes ,but problems started before the dolly / wheel became an issue.

http://vimeo.com/115819061

Scooter tauing på isen nyttårs aften

Harald Steen - 2015/01/02 20:13 UTC

27-44400
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8625/16019976468_1f060f370c_o.png

[<BS>]

Keel possibly already broken, being off tow here and staying with the cart still presents a fairly good chance of a non injury event.

Note the slack rear port wire.

Crash imminent and no more fear of relinquishing control, what better time than now to do an unreported actuation force to load test?

P.S. If that was his sole barrel, note how accessible it is pressed up against the control tube in the previous shot.

[Tad Eareckson]

Keel possibly already broken, being off tow here and staying with the cart still presents a fairly good chance of a non injury event.

Being off tow sometime prior to impact being the problematic issue here - as pretty much always over the entire history of Western hang gliding - 'specially in the wake of the 1981 Infallible Weak Link.

Note the slack rear port wire.

Note both of them here:

09-03015
http://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2912/14323656047_0beb580d1d_o.png


(At Quest, by the way.) I'm gonna call this glider totally intact up to the point of impact a millisecond before 6.

5
http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/900/26320843187_42024d4ef3_o.jpg


Everything there is symmetrical. (Including his arms - for the last time.)

Crash imminent and no more fear of relinquishing control, what better time than now to do an unreported actuation force to load test?

Yeah. And "unreported" seems to be the name of the game here. The asshole survives in pretty good shape, zero participation in discussion, two videos he's not letting us see - and we're having to play jigsaw puzzle with a third of the pieces missing. (Deliberately kept missing.)

P.S. If that was his sole barrel, note how accessible it is pressed up against the control tube in the previous shot.

- Doesn't matter. The SOPs are concerned only with it being within easy reach. We certainly don't want people opening up any accessibility cans of worms. Where would it end?

- OF COURSE it's his SOLE BARREL - you moron. At Quest and Florida RIdge if you put barrels on BOTH ends of the bridle you double the required actuation effort - and those things are pretty iffy as they are. Release on one side, weak link on the other. KISS. (And, of course, reverse if you go to fly in the Southern Hemisphere (South Africa, Australia, New Zealand).

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55649
High Resolution versions

Davis Straub - 2018/04/03 12:35:29 UTC
Exactly.

We don't have the pictures from the moment the pilots starts to roll. So speculating:

- C'mon, Jim...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/28 01:17:55 UTC

Well said Billo
I'm a bit sick of all the armchair experts telling me how my friend died.

Ah but hg'ers get so uppity when you tell them not to speculate.

C'mon back over to The Davis Show where you always used to be able to shoot off your stupid mouth all you wanted confident in the protection you could always count on from your...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 06:15:12 UTC

You may not know, but Davis is a friend of mine.

...good friend, Davis Dead-On Straub, and tell that uppity pilot not to speculate.

- And we also don't have:

- any participation from the pro toad dickhead who's the star of this discussion.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55583
Getting caught in the cart by your wheel

Davis Straub - 2018/03/28 11:54:07 UTC

The pilot writes:

I agree to sharing information USHPA safety coordinator for the purpose of improving safety in the sport of hang gliding.

He AGREES to SHARE his valuable personal information WITH the unidentified u$hPa safety coordinator for the purpose of continuing the latter's outstanding record of improving safety in the sport of hang gliding. My take is that this sleazy motherfucker should be outted and made to feel as deeply and permanently unwelcome as possible in all flying venues possible. Maybe his brother too for good measure.

1) The glider's angle on the cart was probably too high to begin with.

- Bullshit.

- If it were so ridiculously high as to have been a significant factor how come Spinner and Eric in the bright orange and green vests didn't notice and do anything before he hooked his pro toad bent pin crap to the tow ring?

2) The wind or lift from the right likely happened just as the cart started to move.

Thank you Davis. If the problem started JUST AS THE CART STARTED TO MOVE then there was zero excuse for one of the launch assistants you motherfuckers weren't using to compensate as the glider was accelerating up to safe airspeed. And even failing that there was zero excuse for the "pilot" not to abort the tow in this freak dangerous cycle.

3) The pilot likely didn't let the tow rope pull him through to where his chest was over the control bar.

Yeah, he probably had absolutely no feel for how to safely execute an AT launch in unstable conditions. So who signed him off on his AT rating?

4) The keel most likely did not get raised out of the back cradle immediately as the cart began to move because the pilot was not pulled in enough to raise it.

Well yeah. We've pretty much proven beyond the slightest reasonable doubt that the pilot was nose high and didn't properly pull in so it's a total no brainer that the keel didn't rise out of the back cradle immediately.

5) The pilot cross controlled, moving his head and shoulders to the right instead of pivoting his body to the right with his feet as far to the right as possible.

What an asshole. Cross controlling. Didn't even know how to roll control a hang glider so made opposite input. Wonder how he ever managed to score his Two - let alone his AT rating and get OKed to fly...

http://www.willswing.com/hang-gliders/u2/
U2 / U2C - Wills Wing

The U2 is a very high performance glider with handling characteristics suitable for pilots with intermediate and higher levels of skills and experience.

...a very high performance glider with handling characteristics suitable for pilots with intermediate and higher levels of skills and experience in this cooking Central Florida XC comp. (Any idea who sold him the glider? (Totally fucking amazing that he made it to the second to last day of the comp before something catastrophic happened.))

Given the cross control the glider yawed to the left exasperating the problem with the right wing rising.

Yeah Davis, the cross controlling. His shoulders obviously weren't near the starboard side of the control frame 'cause of the three hundred pound sideways pull from Evgeniya's...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3661
Flying the 914 Dragonfly

Jim Rooney - 2008/12/06 20:01:49 UTC

You will only ever need full throttle for the first fifty feet of a tandem tow. Don't ever pull a solo at full throttle... they will not be able to climb with you. You can tow them at 28 mph and you'll still leave them in the dust... they just won't be able to climb with you... weaklinks will go left and right.

...Dragonfly.

From that li'l gem from Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney we know that normal solo smooth air pulls, everything properly lined up, no surprises, are blowing in excess of two hundred pounds. And totally sideways with a Tad-O-Link...

6) The yaw and the bank caused the left wheel to dip below the cart tubes.

Who gives a flying fuck?

7) With or without wheels, the pilot and glider would have spun into the ground to the left.

Oh really? So then why did you title the lead-off thread: "Getting caught in the cart by your wheel"?

Cart rear cradles are very adjustable. All you have to do is to put your glider on the cart, lie down, and then see what your bar position is after letting lose of the control bar. If you are too far back for trim, have the line helpers raise the back cradle for you.

Wow! What valuable information! Funny none of all those AT rated comp pilots and Quest / Green Swamp comp staffers seemed to know that. Sure is a good thing that you've been at an around all this plenty long enough to understand what's what and who's who and are able to get all us muppets on the right track right AFTER we've had another launch crash at the operation that's been involved in perfecting aerotowing for nearly 27 years.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55649
High Resolution versions

Mike Bomstad - 2018/04/03 14:59:00 UTC
Spokane

He got the nose wire under his neck (last photo)
Woah.

Yeah? Well...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26134
Whipstall almost tumble

Mike Bomstad - 2011/12/26 08:33:15 UTC

Well, how about a weak link...

How about a weak link? Or a flashlight or a banana or a rubber duck?

Ben Reese - 2018/04/03 16:22:33 UTC

Look how much ground he covers going to the left.

Maybe he'll win the XC comp - without ever getting fully airborne.

In the 1st and 2nd photo he moves left about a wing span.

Now look at each successive photo and go back and forth between them to see how far left he is going in each shot.

What do you figure Evgeniya was doing, watching, thinking about at that time?

To have that much momentum already in 1st photo taking him off track to left, it was to late when that 1st photo was shot.

No shit.

Speculating now:

See what happened to our culture after Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney finally tired of our attitudes and fundamental incompetence? We became a culture of savages.

Even if he had released in the 1st photo...

1
http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/877/39383252930_69a1edef34_o.jpg

...he would have gotten airborne and side slipped his left tip into the ground, then pounded his leading edge and nose and himself into the ground from 12-20'.

Of course he would have. He'd have rocketed up into the air with all that excess airspeed and then would've been totally unable to translate any of it into control response.

He was going fast enough to get airborne by the 1st photo.

Well, Evgeniya sure was by the point of the fifth / next to last photo.

5
http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/900/26320843187_42024d4ef3_o.jpg


How very odd that nobody's saying anything about the tug and what it is and isn't doing, dontchya think?

As chance would have it he got less injured by staying on tow.

And you'd know fer sure 'cause you ran your crystal ball through all the possible scenarios.

This kept him on the ground and the energy going sideways.

All that sideways energy...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3380
Lauren and Paul in Zapata

Lauren Tjaden - 2008/07/21 14:27:04 UTC

Yesterday I chased Paul again. The tow rope weak link broke when Paul locked out and the weak link he got from Tad did not break. Russell said it was about the worst he has ever had his tail pulled around. Anyhow, I would advise against those weak links, though Tad's barrel releases do seem better able to release under stress. After Russell got a new rope and Paul recovered, he was late leaving and got trapped under some cirrus.

...and the rookie tug driver is steaming along just fine not the slightest bit aware of anything the least bit amiss 250 off her port stern quarter. (Kinda makes ya wonder what these assholes are using in the way of a tow mast breakaway protector nowadays, don't it?)

Things were wrong way before the 1st photo was taken.

Care to compose a likely list of the individuals present who could've done something positive to prevent or mitigate the seriousness of this incident and didn't?

Further back in time are where the answers are to really know

Don't worry. The unidentified competitor has agreed to sharing information with the u$hPa safety coordinator for the purpose of improving safety in the sport of hang gliding. We should be hearing from him how we can best improve safety in the sport of hang gliding any day now. Meanwhile all regularly scheduled AT launch crashes have been put on hold.

what went wrong. One indisputable fact is, he was very lucky.

In other words, this one very easily could have translated to the third professional pilot early season fatality at Quest in the space of a bit over five years. Sure is a good thing they've been involved in perfecting aerotowing for the better part of three decades now, isn't it Ben? I shudder to think how things would be going otherwise.

Considering the angles and his momentum, it came out for him about as good as possible with minimal injuries.

Could've been a lot worse. Could've been using experimental Rube Goldberg equipment that might not have worked when he needed to.

Does anyone else see it this way?

I certainly do. And is anybody else wondering why he didn't bother using his razor-sharp cutting tool to slash through his lines in an instant?

Gerry Grossnegger - 2018/04/03 16:32:46 UTC

Yeah. Also, with the raked-back dolly wheels, once the right side of the dolly is lifted, the left dolly wheel is going to swivel in towards the dolly, pointing even more to the left than the direction of motion. The weight on the dolly will make that happen, making the bad situation worse. That's just how they're made, so that they track properly in the direction that they're being pulled, the axis that they swivel on has to stay vertical.

Can't tell if it's doing that from the pictures above, but it's likely.

So let's hear it for foot launching! Keep It Simple, Stupid! C'mon... How come I'm not hearing a single voice pushing for such a cheap and obvious solution? Think of all the advantages. Almost beyond number.

[<BS>]

Everything there is symmetrical.

OK, I'm curious what you're seeing to make that determination. The cables are difficult for me to see and the alignment of the keel is impossible to make out.

I do see the left tip briefly off the ground and the left leading edge with a significant downward bow. I'm inclined to think his contact with the right front wire may start a right yaw especially as he gets closer to the nose. A lot of this minutia should be cleared up when the videos come out.

[Tad Eareckson]

OK, I'm curious what you're seeing to make that determination.

More what I'm NOT seeing...

5
http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/900/26320843187_42024d4ef3_o.jpg


The keel peeking out from behind the starboard leading edge. Hit the pause button on the time machine at that frame and I'll take the glider and run off a cliff with it.

The cables are difficult for me to see and the alignment of the keel is impossible to make out.

Not in the next/last/rebound shot:

6
http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/865/26320837657_a2ea7a8803_o.jpg


Prior to impact this is little more than a rather severe ground level lockout. The glider's AT MOST feeling little more than what it would in a normal sixty degree (two G) coordinated turn. Port wingtip makes light contact with the surface, port wheel hooks on a rather light and freely rolling launch cart. It's feeling pretty much normal in-flight type loadings with nothing worth talking about in the way of torque.

I'm inclined to think his contact with the right front wire may start a right yaw especially as he gets closer to the nose.

You're a better man than I. I mostly just see an ugly mess precipitated by a bog's worth of inexcusable stupidity, incompetence, arrogance, corruption that should've been dealt with decades before that glider was hooked up.

A lot of this minutia should be cleared up when the videos come out.

Yeah is SHOULD be. It SHOULD have already BEEN.

The Man With No Name - 2018/03/29

I haven't downloaded the video from my glider camera yet but will do so, and I'll also ask my brother for his phone video.
I agree to sharing information USHPA safety coordinator for the purpose of improving safety in the sport of hang gliding.

I'd advise waiting a week or two before starting holding your breath.

That second sentence... Actual humans never speak like that.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/7067
AT SOPs - proposed revisions

Subj: Re: [Tow] AT SOPs - proposed revisions
Date: 2009/05/10 02:08:52 UTC
From: cloud9sa@aol.com
To: skysailingtowing@yahoogroups.com
cc: GreggLudwig@aol.com, lisa@lisatateglass.com

Hi Tad.

I'm Tracy Tillman, on the USHPA BOD, on the Tow Committe, and I am an Aviation Safety Counselor on the FAA Safety Team (FAAST) for the Detroit FSDO area. As a rep of both the USHPA and FAA, I would like to help you, USHPA, and the FAA improve safety in flying, towing, and hang gliding.

Notice the similarity, pattern? And try these on for size:

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1081
Platform towing /risk mitigation / accident

Sam Kellner - 2012/06/29 13:59:51 UTC

This topic is generated to better understand safe platform/payout operations.

In accordance with USHPA, the accident report was submitted 6-16, the evening of the accident.

Sam Kellner - 2012/07/03 02:25:58 UTC

No, you don't get an accident report.

Everyone and his dog has known for most of this century that if you desperately want and need crash data thoroughly and irretrievably shredded...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=16439
Some day we will learn

Steve Morris - 2010/03/31 23:58:54 UTC

In 2009 there were several serious hang gliding accidents involving pilots on the HG forum (or who had close friends on the forum that reported that these accidents had occurred). In each case there was an immediate outcry from forum members not to discuss these accidents, usually referring to the feelings of the pilots' families as a reason to not do so. In each case it was claimed that the facts would eventually come out and a detailed report would be presented and waiting for this to happen would result in a better informed pilot population and reduce the amount of possibly harmful speculation.

In each of these cases I have never seen a final detailed accident report presented in this forum. So far as I can tell, the accident reporting system that has been assumed to exist here doesn't exist at all, the only reports I've seen are those published in the USHPA magazine. They are so stripped down, devoid of contextual information and important facts that in many cases I have not been able to match the magazine accident report with those mentioned in this forum.

The end result has been that effective accident reporting is no longer taking place in the USHPA magazine or in this forum. Am I the only one who feels this way?

...u$hPa is your no-brainer one stop shop.

The "minutia" is inevitably gonna include all the substantive stuff these u$hPa damage control motherfuckers are all bending over backwards to keep people from seeing, discussing, thinking about. Yeah, people of varying ages, it's all about the wheel catching on the cart (when the glider's locked on tow, screaming sideways away from the tug, and rolled on its ear). I'm predicting that with the 2018/04/02 12:40:08 UTC posting of the full resolution stuff plus the orphan crop we got our last deliberate delivery of useable new data.