Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

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(10) Quest Air Hang Gliding - Posts
Quest Air Hang Gliding - 2018/01/16

Quest Air Hang Gliding added 2 new photos.
Groveland, Florida
Congratulations to Evgeniya Laritskaya. Evgeniya has completed her requirements to become a tow pilot and today got the final endorsement to TOW!

http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/874/26246576587_456b4474e4_o.jpg
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Congratulations Evgeniya!

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Do you now get to paint your first little hang glider on your fuselage?

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P.S. - 2018/03/30 16:55:00 UTC

Just noticed... Same freakin' tail number.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

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http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55583
Getting caught in the cart by your wheel
Mark Dowsett - 2018/03/30 14:46:23 UTC

the pilot also reviewed his other videos from the event. the cradles on this cart were noticeably lower than the other carts he used earlier in the week.

He said he did notice that while on the cart but didn't think much of it. It makes sense to have them a little higher. He of course wishes he was more picky on cart selection.

Davis - I heard the cart was also totaled from the incident. It may be worth while to compare it to the others and see if others need to be modified.
the pilot...
the pilot. Good job continuing to not use his name. And fuck all you other Green Swampers who are allowing this bullshit anonymity to be perpetrated on the sport.
...also reviewed his other videos from the event.
How come he hasn't posted them? Needs a lot more time to edit out the sequences we can use to identify him and his cart monkey and driver?
the cradles...
Shift key broken? Second consecutive sentence you've started lower case. Two for two so far.
...on this cart were noticeably lower than the other carts he used earlier in the week.
The CRADLES - PLURAL. There's ONE keel support and two control bar brackets. If you're using plural you're referring to the front end stuff and if those (height unadjustable) ones are lower so is your glider's pitch attitude - the tail end being equal.

Bullshit. This makes no sense whatsoever. Launch dollies have height adjustable keel supports to accommodate differently configured gliders. And if they don't or the adjustment ranges are inadequate they need to be taken out of circulation. Remember...

Image

...Julia Kucherenko from the Flytec Race and Rally a bit under seven years ago?
He said he did notice that while on the cart but didn't think much of it.
- Also the cart monkeys and comp pilots crammed into the immediate vicinity didn't think much of it.

- If he was an average or better AT douchebag and didn't think much of it then there wasn't anything to think much of. If your glider is dangerously out of kilter on a launch cart you're gonna think much of it and do something about it.
It makes sense to have them a little higher. He of course wishes he was more picky on cart selection.
What? No Safety Committee?
Davis - I heard the cart was also totaled from the incident.
Oh really? I guess Bob Grant didn't think anybody would be interested in any shots following:

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It may be worth while to compare it to the others and see if others need to be modified.
Yeah, probably a good idea AFTER you've had a near lethal blown launch and totaled a cart. 'Specially if you're one of those who's been...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap
Paul Tjaden - 2011/07/30 15:33:54 UTC

Quest Air has been involved in perfecting aerotowing for nearly 20 years...
...involved in perfecting aerotowing for nearly 27 years.

NOTE... Nobody's suggesting eliminating the launch dolly and getting back to safety basics with the advantage of simple foot launching behind these 115 horsepower Dragonflies.

Also note that this post of Mark's has been gathering moss for near three hours with nobody responding to anything.
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Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

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http://ozreport.com/22.66
Weight shift while aerotowing
Davis Straub - 2018/03/30 12:00:58 UTC

This is what Jim Prahl tells me.
Why's he telling YOU? Why isn't in engaging in discussions with US?
Most people are used to moving with their shoulders to the left or right within the control frame as a means of shifting their weight.
- Most people don't fly hang gliders.
- So where are you getting your data about what most people do and don't do when they're flying hang gliders?
When aerotowing you need to be sure to move your whole body, as though it were a straight board, pivoting around a point about three foot in front of the center of the control frame. If you want to move to the right you move your whole body as though it were a board, to the right with your toes furthest to the right.
And here I was thinking that we had a Pilot Proficiency System to ensure that people were qualified to perform in accordance with the ratings and skills in which they had signoffs.
This means that your head will stay fairly close to the center of the base tube, while the rest of your body is to the side. You don't just shove your butt to the side, but your whole body.
This is an XC comp that people come great distances to participate in. One would think that most of them would have solid Two skills regarding roll control.
If you don't do this, and move with your shoulders the upper part of your body and your head to the side, the glider will yaw to the other side. Move this way to the right, the glider will yaw to the left.
For example:

Image

In the photo (not a high resolution photo)...
Better than most of the low resolution crap we've had made available to date.
...you can see that while the pilot's head and chest are to the pilot's right, his legs and feet are to the left.
And you can see the violin string tight towline pulling his shoulders (ONLY) nearly sidewise with a tension limit of four hundred pounds. And I think that he's probably doing everything of which he's physically capable at this point and realizes that nothing's gonna really matter anyway.
This means that the glider is going to yaw to the left.
The glider is ROLLED and literally on its ear and locked out.
If the left wing is touching the ground, that's certainly not going to help.
You mean like the tug driver you're conspicuously not saying anything about?
Jim Prahl writes:
What's the difference between Jim Prahl WRITING and Jim Prahl TELLING YOU?
In this particular incident...
In THIS PARTICULAR incident? What are the ones you're not telling us about?
I did not see the angle on the cart or body position prior to the launch.
Indicating you were not the driver everybody's being so careful not to identify. Not so much as a gender specific pronoun to confirm what I've already figured out.
If the glider was trying to launch with a higher than normal angle...
The glider WON'T try to launch with a higher than normal angle. It will trim to something reasonable when sufficient airspeed is attained. And we're not seeing any actual evidence or hearing any actual accounts of it ever having been excessively nose high.
...make sure you don't lock your arms during the initial roll.
How 'bout confirming the identity of this guy and telling us about his qualifications, ratings, experience and who signed him off?
Let the tow line pull you to your chest over the control bar into the position it would be at trim or best glide.
Doesn't his position depend a lot on whether he's flying two point or pro toad? And this guy's flying pro toad so obviously he must be a pro.
Hold that position. The tail usually raises and all goes well.
Funny it didn't this time. Also that we don't hear anything about any help he might have had or missed with somebody on a wire helping get him up to safe speed.
Also in the photos so far, really not much weight was moved with the cross controlling at the beginning.
In the photos so far he's locked out. From Photo One we can tell things aren't gonna end well if the tow isn't immediately terminated.
When the right wing rises at launch, and not being a coordinated turn, your lower body wants to hang to the left and you have to physically get more weight to the high wing.
Yeah, this is all the stupid muppet's fault. Nothing to do with conditions, total shit equipment, a new underqualified tug driver not monitoring what was going on behind her in the mirror, assuming everything was going great and maintaining afterburners until the violent catastrophic impact.
You also have to resist the towline from pulling your shoulders over.
Yeah?

02-00820c
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Four hundred pound weak link you assholes use to put little girl gliders up. Tell me how your resist that pull when the tug's at full power, the tug and glider are going different directions, and the glider's already locked out and on its ear.
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Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

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http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55583
Getting caught in the cart by your wheel
Davis Straub - 2018/03/30 17:45:20 UTC

I doubt it.
I doubted it too. I didn't see how it was possible for the cart to have been significantly damaged.
The carts are being continually rebuilt.
Yeah? Shit like this happen all the time but gets covered up?
I hope to have high resolution shots soon.
Why YOU? Why isn't the asshole in this incident identifying himself and making everything freely and publicly available instead of pulling THIS:
I agree to sharing information USHPA safety coordinator for the purpose of improving safety in the sport of hang gliding.
sleazy total bullshit.
Davis Straub - 2018/03/30 19:16:32 UTC

The cart was not totaled. In fact it didn't need any repairs at all.
Or any modifications to make it safely compatible with all commonly flown gliders.
It is unethical to promulgate unfounded rumors about accidents, especially ones that results in injury or death.
- Oh, perish the thought that anyone should do anything the SLIGHTEST bit UNETHICAL on The Davis Show - a gleaming beacon in the hang gliding universe as far as ethics are concerned.

- Suck my dick, Davis. He told us what he had HEARD. We're all capable of taking that for what it was worth. And nothing was stopping Quest from coming out and settling things immediately - 'cept of course for all the commitments involved in spinning this thing to draw attention away from their negligence, incompetence, and...
Quest Air - Aerotow FAQ

The strength of the weak link is crucial to a safe tow. It should be weak enough so that it will break before the pressure of the towline reaches a level that compromises the handling of the glider but strong enough so that it doesn't break every time you fly into a bit of rough air. A good rule of thumb for the optimum strength is one G, or in other words, equal to the total wing load of the glider. Most flight parks use 130 lb. braided Dacron line, so that one loop (which is the equivalent to two strands) is about 260 lb. strong - about the average wing load of a single pilot on a typical glider. For tandems, either two loops (four strands) of the same line or one loop of a stronger line is usually used to compensate for nearly twice the wing loading. When attaching the weak link to the bridle, position the knot so that it's hidden from the main tension in the link and excluded altogether from the equation.

IMPORTANT - It should never be assumed that the weak link will break in a lockout.
ALWAYS RELEASE THE TOWLINE before there is a problem.
...bald faced LIES.
If the pilot was on one of the two of the three newer carts with plastic cradles, then instead of 1/2" above the tops of the tubes, he would be 1" below the top of the tubes.
How come we still don't know what cart he was on a week after the fact?
The cradles are not uniform, with distances above the top of the tubes varying from 3" to 1/4". Flying a glider with wheels that extend down, means that one has a greater chance of jamming the wheels in the tubes on the cart.
The wheels weren't jammed here:

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at the first available shot. And ANY discussion about ANYTHING subsequent to that point is irrelevant deceptive total bullshit.

The discussion needs to be about how and why we got to the point of the glider going sideways to a full power tow, rolled onto its wingtip, the tow not having been aborted BEFORE we got to that point.

And as far as I'm concerned we're totally wasting our time discussing some asshole flying in flagrant and gross violation of the terms of the FAA Exemption which mandates a certified glider and assumes a certified glider configuration. Your shitty Quest operation killed one professional pilot pro toad asshole on 2013/02/02, another on 2016/05/21, and, if this guy's who I'm pretty sure he is, rather narrowly missed a third on 2018/03/23.

But keep doing the same bullshit over and over and expecting different results. I'm never overdosed on this quality of entertainment.
If the cradles are lower then that chance increases.
But if the tow's under any kind of control as the glider rolls up to speed then the chance is ZERO. But go ahead and modify your carts to make it impossible for anything bad to happen when the glider's locked out and going sideways while the tuggie is continuing with full power.
Spinner recommends that pilots with wheels use the cart which cradles that are 3" above the tubes.
Who the fuck is Spinner? Never mind, I really don't give a rat's ass 'cause Spinner is fine with all the other crap being used in these operations.
I fly with wheels and I have not hooked the carts. My wheels are around the base tube, not extended below the base tube.
Cool.

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http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident3.jpg
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I'm happy for you.
http://www.dynamicflight.com.au/for-sale/accessories/
Accessories - Dynamic Flight Hang Gliding School
Wheels
Price: $290.00 AUD
Solid plastic and aluminium design. Small diameter wheels with park brakes. Suit all airfoil base bars and VG systems.

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http://www.dynamicflight.com.au/wp-content/uploads/catablog/thumbnails/DSCF3100.JPG
I saw a pilot with wheels whose axles about extended three inches below the base tube and to the outside of the control frame. On the cart he placed one wheel inside the cart and one on the outside. He could not fit his wheels inside the cart.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks
Jim Rooney - 2013/03/03 19:37:19 UTC

My response is short because I've been saying it for years... and yes, I'm a bit sick of it.
This is a very old horse and has been beaten to death time and time again... by a very vocal minority.

See, most people are happy with how we do things. This isn't an issue for them. They just come out and fly. Thing's aren't perfect, but that's life... and life ain't perfect. You do what you can with what you've got and you move on.

But then there's a crowd that "knows better". To them, we're all morons that can't see "the truth".
(Holy god, the names I've been called.)

I have little time for these people.

It saddens me to know that the rantings of the fanatic fringe mask the few people who are actually working on things. The fanaticism makes it extremely hard to have a conversation about these things as they always degrade into arguments. So I save the actual conversations for when I'm talking with people in person.

A fun saying that I picked up... Some people listen with the intent of understanding. Others with the intent of responding.
I like that.

For fun... if you're not seeing what I mean... try having a conversation here about wheels.
And I see we're not having any more conversations here - or anywhere else - about weak links, are we Davis?
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Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

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http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55583
Getting caught in the cart by your wheel
Kinsley Sykes - 2018/03/30 20:06:08 UTC

One takeaway from the pictures is the extended left hand just before impact.
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That was also the injury hand/arm.
- The next things he had extended were his head and neck. Did you notice him not reporting any problems in those departments subsequent to impact?

- Any thoughts on the towline still being stretched by the hundred horsepower Rotax back sideways in the opposite direction as he's configuring for impact? (Just kidding.)
While it's a strong reflex to reach out and try to brace for impact...
Really? I wouldn't know. 'Cause I've never crashed off of an aerotow cart before.
...it's usually way better to hang on to the gider and use it to dissipate some energy by crumpling.
- What's your data on that?

- Well now we've got Kinsley Sykes telling us to hang on to the "gider" and use it to dissipate some energy by crumpling and Jim Prahl telling us to stay on the control bar and angle our bodies under the high wing to the maximum extent possible. And of course NO ONE talking about being able to safely abort a tow that's going south for ANY reason.
This does not mean to straight arm the control frame, which is recipe for a spiral fracture, but rather to "hug" a downtube and allow the glider to crash around you.
Hey Kinsley... Have somebody film you while somebody else tows you into a ground level lockout so you can show us the proper technique.
This is a step you only take once ALL other recovery option are gone...
And are down to a quarter second available response time.
...but it's striking looking at the picture with the extended arm and reading the pilot's injuries.
Yeah? Did you read the description of the keel damage? Compare/Contrast with Steve Elliot - 2009/01/03. I got the impression it was a pretty mild impact by comparison and I'm not even sure if he knew he was significantly hurt initially. And he was dead about a day later. I'm not gonna second guess this guy's crash response.
Davis Straub - 2018/03/30 20:20:37 UTC

Exactly.
Fuckin' dickhead.
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Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Got pretty overwhelmed yesterday and failed to realize that we muppets have been permitted to see FIVE images from the 2018/03/23 Quest Air Green Swamp Sport Klassic / Evgeniya Laritskaya / Richard/James Westmoreland / N2650C 1994 Bailey-Moyes 914 Dragonfly / Wills Wing U2 145/160 / pro toad easily reachable bent pin releasable / Tad-O-Linked / passenger and glider mangling ground lockout crash. Had been assuming four but the Skydog collection single contribution is not a duplicate.

So here in sequence in best-to-date available resolution...
---
2018/04/03 04:00:00 UTC - Revision/Expansion/Amendment...

We now have full frame/resolution for the original four Davis Show low resolution photos plus the aforementioned crop from Bob Grant's collection plus a sixth piece of the sequence which is a crop Davis posted in his latest.

Following is a key to place everything in proper sequence and serve as a reference. (Gawd I wish I were working directly from a high quality video rather than having to organize the scraps these assholes are permitting us to see.) You can figure out which URLs get you to max resolution if you need or want it.

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http://ozreport.com/pub/images/IMG_594632318.jpg
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http://ozreport.com/pub/images/incident1.jpg
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http://www.skydogsports.com/A-HG/2018-Wallaby/March/Quest%20Take%20Offs/G-16/IMG_5954.jpg
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Full perspective displays: 1 4 5 6 - from The Davis Show.
Medium crop: 2 - from Bob Grant.

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Major crops:
- 1 4 5 6 - Yours Truly
- 3 - Davis (from a full frame unavailable to us muppets)

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---
Comments...

- From start to impact the glider is ridiculously sideways to the tug...

http://www.skydogsports.com/hg-1/2018-Green-Swamp-Sport-Klassic.htm
greenswamp2018
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...everybody and his dog are bending over backwards not to mention.

- From 1 to 2 the passenger has kept himself glued to the cart. At 3 it's just about fully back on the ground.

- From 1 to 5 the towline is piano wire tight. With a gun to my head I'd say it's being/been ramped up to 300 pounds. This translates to 150 pounds on a/the bent pin release which translates to a 24 pound straight backwards pull on that stupid little stub of a barrel. Good freakin' luck getting that done fast under even optimal conditions.

- From 1 to 4 the piano wire tight towline is pool table level / horizontal / parallel to the pool table level Quest runway. The tug's still on the ground. (But still hooked at the port corner of the control frame by the extended wheel.)

- At 1 note the inverted launch cart in front of the green undersurface Wills Wing. I wonder what that's about.

- At Frame 5 the piano wire tight towline is distinctly angled up from the passenger's shoulders to the tug. Granted, the passenger is now in total crash mode and at the low side of the control cage and thus closer to the runway but that doesn't account for that much angle. The tug's fully airborne at the other end of that 250 foot Spectra cable at this point.

And remember when it was near certain tug pilot death for a solo hang glider to hook up behind a Dragonfly with anything five pounds heavier than a single loop of 130 pound Greenspot on one end of a two point or pro toad bridle? Here we have photo documentation of the most disastrously misaligned and high tension fuckup in the entire world history of Dragonfly aerotowing with little girl driver who got her ticket punched nine Tuesdays prior coming off the runway totally unaware that there's the slightest thing wrong going on behind her. And there's also a conspicuous absence of any comment from anyone present and/or involved about the Dragonfly having had the slightest problem getting airborne and safely back on the runway - ready to hook up the next pro toad Tad-O-Linked asshole in the same conditions in which thermals can come through the field.

Further along these lines... The other identified tuggies - Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey, Russell Brown, Jonny Thompson, Jim Prahl. They're all way south of useless assholes but the first one designed the goddam plane, all of them have been towing gliders nonstop since the beginning of time and have hundreds of thousands of pulls logged in all doable conditions, could do this shit in their sleep... NONE of those guys would've failed to recognize the problem and continue the tow even anywhere near up close to the Frame 1 situation.

- Note that in 1 through 4 the port tip is dragging across the surface as the glider continues to turn to port and away from the tug. At 5 with the tug airborne and the passenger in crash mode the situation is so extreme that the tip has been levered back clear of the surface while the heading change / yaw has continued.

- At first glance at 6 it looks like the glider's a millisecond shy of power whacking... But no, it's rebounding from the power whack. The damage has all been done. The focal point of the safe towing system has increased the safety of the towing operation after the U2's keel and passenger's left arm have been turned to garbage. But hell, the dolly seems to have come through with flying colors.
---
2018/04/05 13:20:00 UTC

I've just gone back and retroactively replaced all the low resolution junk we were initially fed with the good stuff.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/22.66
Weight shift while aerotowing
Jim Prahl - 2018/03/30 12:00:58 UTC

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In this particular incident I did not see the angle on the cart or body position prior to the launch. If the glider was trying to launch with a higher than normal angle, make sure you don't lock your arms during the initial roll. Let the tow line pull you to your chest over the control bar into the position it would be at trim or best glide. Hold that position. The tail usually raises and all goes well.

... You also have to resist the towline from pulling your shoulders over.
Hey Jim...
Let the tow line pull you to your chest over the control bar into the position it would be at trim or best glide.
What if we devised some kind of bridle that split the towline tension in half between the pilot and the glider at its hang point or a bit forward of that on the keel to help trim the glider nose down / a lot faster? Would it be possible for something like that make aerotowing a lot easier, more controllable, safer?
You also have to resist the towline from pulling your shoulders over.
Wouldn't that also make it twice as easy to resist having your shoulders pulled over?

http://www.skydogsports.com/A-HG/2018-Green-Swamp-Sport-Klassic.htm
greenswamp2018
Bob Grant - 2018/03/30

Green Swamp Challenge Photos & Stories Friday March 23, 2018

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Zero discussion of this incident on the Jack and Bob Shows.

On The Davis Show two newsletter posts and two dozen forum posts on the topic. Not a single reference of any kind concerning the bridle issue from anyone.

When the Cosmos came out in the early Eighties and first made aerotowing moderately practical the movers were too fuckin' stupid to employ launch carts and two point bridles.

When the Dragonfly came out around 1990 it started off all cart, two point bridle, both-hands-on-the-control-bar release.

Then they found they could get away with pro toad most of the time. It wasn't really dangerous but it took extra skill that could be taught to somebody with a little two point time under his belt in a short clinic. Holly Korzilius was the first and last individual to be seriously crashed because she struck off on her own pro toad minus the short clinic. Well, Dennis Pagen lucked out by a few inches of getting his sleazy ass fatally splattered with his easily reachable pro toad crap but he had the requisite reflex speed to turn it into a nonevent. It's OK as long as you know you need to react quickly and have the skill to pull things off.

And now, in the wake of Zack Marzec and Jeff Bohl, it's not an issue that bears any mention. Was his Bailey release constructed of the traditional black webbing or the newer red stuff? Who gives a rat's ass?

Ditto for weak links. Single loop of 130 pound Greenspot or certain death up until 2013/02/02. Right after that it just had to be APPROPRIATE. And anything anyone uses is appropriate by virtue of the fact that someone's using it.

We're now in an era of the collapse of the sport in which the more critical the factor or issue the more nonexistent it will be in reports and discussions. Next time somebody gets fried in the powerlines while executing his long safe upright final approach he will have died of cardiac failure, natural causes, sad but not really relevant to anything having to do with hang gliding.
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Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1143
Death at Tocumwal
Davis Straub - 2006/01/24 12:27:32 UTC

Bill Moyes argues that you should not have to move your hand from the base bar to release. That is because your natural inclination is to continue to hold onto the base bar in tough conditions and to try to fly the glider when you should be releasing.
Yeah?

- Against what total fucking dickheads was this total fucking dickhead arguing and how come you're not telling us who they were, what qualifications they had, and the reasons they were giving for insisting that you SHOULD have to move your hand from the base bar to release? I've heard total fucking dickheads like Ryan Voight and Brad Gryder argue that it's not an issue one need be concerned about but not that there's a distinct advantage to having to move your hand from the base bar to release.

- If this were an issue important enough for Bill to argue about - and it seems it should have been since the implication is it's a life or death issue for people flying Moyes gliders behind Bailey-Moyes 914 Dragonfly - how come in all these years (over a dozen just since this statement) he's never put his argument in print anywhere? A website, forum, Moyes glider owner's manual?

http://ozreport.com/13.003
Forbes, day one, task one
Davis Straub - 2009/01/03 20:50:24 UTC
Forbes Airport, New South Wales

Steve Elliot came off the cart crooked and things went from bad to worse as he augured in. He was helicoptered to Orange and eventually to Sydney where the prognosis is not good. I'll update as I find out more.
The Herald on Sunday - 2009/01/10

Hurt hang glider pilot joked bravely with friends after a crash landing, unaware that his injuries were fatal.

But he began losing consciousness as he awaited the arrival of paramedics.

Aucklander Stephen Elliot, 48, was taking part in the Forbes Flatland Hang Gliding Championship in Sydney last Saturday when he landed badly.

Elliot shattered four bones in his neck and damaged several blood vessels that supplied blood to the brain. He was flown to the Royal North Shore Hospital in Sydney and put into an induced coma but died on Monday.
That was his sailmaker locking out off the cart and piling in still connected. Not worth a renewal of the argument at that point?

- If there is a distinct advantage to having to move your hand from the base bar to release (for the glider anyway...

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7509/15659143120_a9aae8f7bd_o.jpg
Image

...not so much for any tug that's ever pulled a glider off a runway) then why has u$hPa always maintained the stance that releases should be placed...
The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc. - 2014/10/22
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
10. Towing Administration
04. Aerotow Pilot Appointment (ATP)

06. A release must be placed at the glider end of the tow line within easy reach of the pilot.
...within EASY reach of the pilot? Shouldn't we be placing them near the outer limits of difficult reaches to ensure that the maximum possible benefit is realized? And why has there been zero protest from those who've been at an around all this plenty long enough to understand what's what and who's who - like Davis Dead-On Straub, Steve Kroop, Dr. Trisa Tilletti?

- Here's the latest known incident of some asshole getting mangled behind one of Bill's tugs (with the designer...

http://www.skydogsports.com/A-HG/2018-Green-Swamp-Sport-Klassic.htm
greenswamp2018
Bob Grant - 2018/03/30

Green Swamp Challenge Photos & Stories Friday March 23, 2018

Image
Bobby Bailey
...in the near vicinity of the wreck, by the way):

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55583
Getting caught in the cart by your wheel
James/Richard Westmoreland - 2018/03/29

The glider continued to turn left and I considered my release but felt that with the glider banked as it was, removing my hand from the base tube would accelerate the turn, possibly spinning the glider.
Image

-- He's not arguing that he should not have to move his hand from the base bar to release because his natural inclination is to continue to hold onto the base bar in tough conditions and to try to fly the glider when he should be releasing. He's stating that he needed to keep both hands on the basetube to limit the damage to a broken elbow and wrist and demolished keel and avoid getting fatally pile driven back into he runway in an unresisted ground level lockout.

-- And it's rather curious that we don't hear Bill Moyes coming on and saying toldyaso and those who were arguing that you should have to take your hand off the base bar to release conceding that their arguments were at least somewhat misguided...

07-300
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7441/12980980635_a22762812d_o.png
Image

...regarding some particular lockout situations.
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<BS>
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Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

Post by <BS> »

Looks like an attempted release.
http://ozreport.com/1522672808
Image
Last edited by <BS> on 2018/04/02 20:09:42 UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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<BS>
Posts: 419
Joined: 2014/08/01 22:09:56 UTC

Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

Post by <BS> »

I'm guessing those were coated wires.
http://ozreport.com/1522672808
Image
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