Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
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Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

Post by Tad Eareckson »

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Preface

The following is more a book than a post. I worked on it, on and off, but substantially on, for well over five days - from shortly after my/the previous post in this thread. I previously had the "Maximum characters per post/message" limit for the forum set at an expanded hundred thousand and came close to making it in under the wire. I just extended it 25 percent on top of that.

I've done more than scratch the surface on this important chapter in the history of the downslide of the sport of hang gliding in general and its most important division, aerotowing, in particular, but the shit on and around this one is layered so deep and wide that I still feel that I haven't scratched the surface.

This one's from my neck of the woods and I've personally known and flown with a lot of the players from way back - including/especially the primary.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 08:24:31 UTC

I don't advocate anything.
Did I miss any?
Is it clear what I mean by "We"?
I didn't make the system up.
And I'm not so arrogant to think that my precious little ideas are going to magically revolutionise the industry.
There are far smarter people than me working this out.
I know, I've worked with them.
(Bobby's a fucking genius when it comes to this shit... for example.)
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17404
Aerotow barrel release - straight or curved pin?
Jim Rooney - 2010/05/31 01:53:13 UTC

BTW, Steve Wendt is exceptionally knowledgeable. Hell, he's the one that signed off my instructor rating.
Peas in a pod. They're both fucking geniuses and exceptionally knowledgeable 'cause they've carved out niches for themselves in The Industry, risen to the levels of their incompetence and way beyond, been around since the beginning of time, and are smart enough to know that they're too stupid and have too much blood on their hands, directly and downstream, to be putting stuff in print and opening their mouths around live mics.

Davis...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 06:15:12 UTC

You may not know, but Davis is a friend of mine.
Same ilk.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/15 06:48:18 UTC

Naw.
Davis has been at an around all this plenty long enough to understand what's what and who's who.
Does put stuff in print but knows how to say zilch of substance and lock and delete topics and ban major threats whenever he starts "getting into too much trouble" - like one would flying the Tad-O-Links that everybody started being so happy with at the beginning of the 2013 season.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25321
Stop the Stupids at the USHPA BOD meeting
Mark G. Forbes - 2011/09/29 02:26:23 UTC

We can establish rules which we think will improve pilot safety, but our attorney is right. USHPA is not in the business of keeping pilots "safe" and it can't be. Stepping into that morass is a recipe for extinction of our association. I wish it were not so, but it is. We don't sell equipment, we don't offer instruction, and we don't assure pilots that they'll be safe. Even so, we get sued periodically by people who say we "shoulda, coulda, woulda" done something that would have averted their accident.

It's not just concern for meet directors and policy makers...it's about our continued existence as an association. It's about minimizing the chance of our getting sued out of existence. We're one lawsuit away from that, all the time, and we think hard about it. I would LOVE to not have to think that way, but every time a legal threat arises, it reminds me that we have a very dysfunctional legal system in this country (note: not a "justice" system...there's little justice involved) and we have to recognize that reality and deal with it.
This 2005/05/29 Holly Korzilius could've EASILY, and should have, been the one to have done it and it scared the shit outta the top u$hPa operatives.
USHGA Accident Report Summary
Pilot: Holly Korzilius
Reporter: Steve Wendt, USHGA Instructor # 19528
Date : 5/29/05

I was at the wreckage in a few seconds and afterwards gathered the information that helps understand the results of some unfortunate poor decisions of the injured pilot.
Goddam right you were and did, Steve. You'd have probably pulled out her intestines if you thought you could have gathered any more information that helps understand the results of some unfortunate poor decisions of the victim of your gross negligence in training, equipment, compliance with regulations and legal standards, oversight and management of your operation.

Then Davis freeloads into town three and a half weeks later at a point when u$hPa Damage Control is only about one percent of the way into putting the proper spin on this one and...

http://ozreport.com/9.132
Blue Sky
Davis Straub - 2005/06/21
Blue Sky, Manquin, Virginia

There was an aerotow accident here a few weeks ago, that hurt an experienced female pilot. I hope to publish the facts about that accident as soon as I have the accident report (which was written up by Steve and immediately sent to the USHGA).
...he's gonna publish the FACTS further illustrating what a totally clueless silly bitch Steve's product was.

http://www.ozreport.com/9.133
Lesson from an aerotow accident report
Davis Straub - 2005/06/23 02:00 UTC

A few weeks ago there was a bad accident here at Blue Sky involving an experienced (three years) aerotow pilot who made a number of mistakes. You can read about her accident in the accident report above, which Steve Wendt, the owner of Blue Sky immediately wrote up and sent to Joe Gregor and Jayne DePanfilis, at the USHGA.
Gets a Xerox of the piece of paper Steve produced on his typewriter and snail mailed to Colorado Springs the next day and cooks up some more ideas to keep pissing all over Holly.
I spoke at length with Steve about this accident and he was quite open and willing to talk about it and about the lessons that can be learned.
I'll bet he was. And what better perspective could one possibly hope to benefit from with a source so expert, unbiased, disinterested.

Then u$hPa has to spend the next fourteen months figuring out how to warp what actually happened and the spins of Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt and Davis Dead-On Straub into the usual...
Joe Gregor - 2006/09

No one can say for sure what specifically occurred to cause this accident, including the accident pilot. She doesn't even remember the event. Others observed segments of the accident sequence from their own unique perspectives. No one had the God's-eye view required to see it all and understand what really happened. One thing we can focus on would be the change in routine caused by the pilot's change of equipment.
...Standard Operating Diversionary Drivel.

When I first read this crap from Joe I just found it irritating, clueless, pretentious, useless, irritating... Oops. I'd said irritating already.

It wasn't until I reviewed and REALLY STARTED ANALYZING what I was seeing - after Matt Pruett provided us with that wonderful demonstration of proper pro toad technique and brought the Holly crash and post mortem crap back to mind - that I really started seeing this early example of the shit in which we're totally drowning today.

The sport's been doomed for a long time now but this thing still has some time bomb potential and ya never know when some of it may still prove useful. Have fun scrolling.
Joe Gregor - 2006/09

Accident Analysis

The accident flight occurred around noontime. There was no report concerning the glider's nose-angle setting as it sat in the launch cart.

As a result of changing her bridle arrangement, the accident pilot had inadvertently removed the weak link from the system. After several oscillations, the glider locked out while still low. The tug pilot took action to release the towrope simultaneously with the failure of the Spectra® line. The accident pilot managed to level the wings but was unable to further recover from the ensuing dive before ground impact.

It was several weeks after her "release" before this pilot could actually say she was enjoying life once again. She was a reasonably experienced H-3 at the time of her accident, having started her training at Marina State Beach in California in the summer of 2001. By October of that year she had moved to Virginia, where she took her instruction via scooter tow. By December, she had her first solo high flight experience by truck tow. The following August saw her logging flights up to four hours long. In late August 2002, she learned to aerotow, and had logged approximately 75 aerotows (and over 100 truck tows) by the time of the accident. She currently holds special skills signoffs for AT, FL, PL, ST, and TUR, and has flown a variety of gliders including the Wills Wing Condor, Falcon, Eagle, and Ultrasport, as well as the Moyes Sonic and Litesport 4. She was obviously qualified to perform the attempted maneuver (launching via aerotow).

Discussion

So what can we learn from this? What would you have done differently to avoid a similar experience?

No one can say for sure what specifically occurred to cause this accident, including the accident pilot. She doesn't even remember the event. Others observed segments of the accident sequence from their own unique perspectives. No one had the God's-eye view required to see it all and understand what really happened. One thing we can focus on would be the change in routine caused by the pilot's change of equipment.

It seems reasonable to assume the launching from the shoulders alone (the so-called "pro-tow") would represent a substantial modification of the entire aerotow system. As pilots of what the FAA would consider a (highly) experimental aircraft, we are all a little bit test pilot, even in our routine day-to-day operations. Many have adopted the discipline of only changing one thing at a time in their setup, equipment, or routine, in order to mitigate the dangers of being inadvertently pushed to the outside of their safe flight envelope. They would test these changes under benign, controlled conditions, to increase the safety factor, and only then move on to more challenging conditions. Only after they had become comfortable with the new system would they add another change, under the same conditions as before.

Our accident pilot did indeed make a single change, after seeking the advice of fellow pilots whose opinions she respected - but she flew the new system for the first time under normal soaring conditions. This may have reduced her safety margin, so that when the unexpected characteristics of her new towing system manifest, she was unable to adjust quickly enough to avoid a serious mishap.

Over the years, I have been encouraged by fellow pilots to dump my preferred system using the three-point bridle (towing from both shoulders and the carabiner) and bicycle grip release and to embrace the "pro-tow" system. I have heard all the arguments concerning the obvious performance advantages (less drag), and the somewhat less obvious safety advantages (some claim to find it easier to release from tow using the barrel-style release). I acknowledge some of these arguments, and remain highly skeptical of others. I have, during calm end-of-day conditions, employed this launch method in order to evaluate those arguments - to help decide if I should make the switch.

What I found was that the control inputs required when launching using the "pro-tow" were noticeably different from what I was accustomed to when using the three-point system. I believe that these differences are a direct result of the fact the "pro-tow" pulls the glider/pilot from a point below the CG (center of gravity) of the glider/pilot system. The three-point configuration more nearly exerts force on the glider/pilot along the CG of the system. This results in a pure translation.

If you pull an object from a point out of alignment with the CG of the system, you will experience a rotation. In the case of the "pro-tow", pulling pilot and glider from a point below the CG, a pilot maintaining their accustomed bar position flying off the cart (arms rigid) would experience a nose-up rotation force. Launching using the "pro-tow", I found myself obliged to counteract this effect by pulling in more than I was accustomed to when using my three-point bridle, in order to maintain the same angle of attack through the air. Had I not been prepared for this ahead of time, and had I furthermore tried this for the first time during mid-day conditions, I might have found myself in a lockout situation close to the ground before I was able to figure out what was going on.

I am sure that, after using this system for a while, I would become comfortable with it. Eventually, I might not even recall experiencing any significant difference between the two methods. The human memory is highly malleable. For this reason if for no other, we should all exhibit caution when accepting advice from our fellow pilots. What may seem easy, obvious, and straightforward to those who have seen-it/done-it, may represent a significant challenge to the new practitioner. Those pilots holding instructor ratings have received the extensive training and experience required to safely and effectively relate their advice to those learning new techniques for the first time. Pilots who contemplate attempting a new maneuver, flying with a new type of wing or harness, or trying out a new type of flight-critical system (such as a new-style tow release) are encouraged to seek out qualified instruction if they wish to preserve their safety margin while doing so.

Fly high and safe.

Photos by Susan Flaitz

http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50037239822_31b97dbf53_o.png
Image
Pilot in the 2005 Florida Ridge Comp towing with the three-point (keel and shoulders) setup

http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50036981136_840eb87237_o.png
Image
Florida Ridge 2005 competition pilot using the "pro tow" setup
Joe Gregor - 2006/09

Accident Analysis

The accident flight occurred around noontime.
Version 1 says 12:15. Guess we don't wanna start off on the wrong foot with excessive precision.
There was no report concerning the glider's nose-angle setting as it sat in the launch cart.
- How could that issue possibly be of any relevance concerning this incident? Tail too high and the glider stays stuck on the cart. Too low and it doesn't matter unless it gets hit from the side nasty enough to roll it before there's enough airspeed for the wing to trim. There's been absolutely nothing written to indicate anything was the least bit problematic until after Holly had smoothly become airborne. We got shit that actually matters to talk about, Joe.

- There was also no report concerning whether or not the glider's wings were significantly iced. By the time of the accident she had logged approximately 75 aerotows (and over 100 truck tows) and she had a volunteer launch crew to make sure her equipment was fully compliant with FAA regs and u$hPa SOPs - and Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt's extra sterling standards on top of that. And they made sure the secondary/backup/emergency system she was now using as a primary was configured in the same top notch shape it would've been for a low level thermal induced lockout emergency...

- More realistically, there was also no report concerning what - if anything - she was using in the way of wheels. It's a no brainer that they weren't a pair of eight inch pneumatic Finsterwalders but if her basetube hit before her face such would likely have diminished the severities of the impact and her injuries. But the primary purpose of a u$hPa "accident" report is to cover the asses of responsible parties and that's always well served by padding it with as much totally irrelevant rot as possible within the confines of reasonable printing costs.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up
Jim Rooney - 2009/11/02 18:58:13 UTC

Oh yeah... an other fun fact for ya... ya know when it's far more likely to happen? During a lockout. When we're doing lockout training, the odds go from 1 in 1,000 to over 50/50.
...with a primary bridle wrap. Do we really need you to bring that point to our attention? No wait. They're probably paying you by the word to load this report with as much professional-crash-investigator sounding crap as possible in order to more effectively obscure the few morsels you had to include that you don't want people thinking about too much. Also the volumes of material you're conspicuously not mentioning. Pray continue.
As a result of changing her bridle arrangement...
Changing? How 'bout truncating? How 'bout amputating 95 percent of the control/safety margin components? She "CHANGED" nothing - outside of what was obviously Blue Sky standard for all pro toad flights at that outstanding operation.
...the accident pilot had inadvertently removed the weak link from the system.
- So there was absolutely nothing anywhere in the configuration to prevent her from getting into too much trouble. Right Joe?

- What the fuck do you mean by THE weak link from the system? If you'd bothered to read the relevant regulations and SOPs you'd know that they mandate a MINIMUM of TWO weak links and that they be installed on the TOWLINE ENDS. And the back one's required to be within a specified range based on the glider's Max Certified Operating Weight and the front one's required to be stronger but no more than 20 percent so.

- Can you understand the logic behind that configuration? Or a reasonable facsimile in which weak links are installed at ALL bridle ends so everything at both ends of the line is protected no matter what? (Just kidding.)

- So if Tex had been configured legally it wouldn't have mattered in the slightest that there was no back end weak link. Tex would’ve still made the good decision in the interest of her safety - if the front end weak link hadn't already prevented her from getting too far out of whack - and her glider would've still been in the same pristine shape it was the millisecond after separation when Holly suddenly recovered from her lack of currency, flipped it back right-side up, and did the best that was possible for her to while it was regaining workable airspeed.

- WHAT weak link? At that particular point in our history and operation what had we decided we were happy with and what were we expecting it to do for us? If the answer is:
-- "protect our aircraft against overloading" then why are you bothering to mention it?
-- anything else then you're as much an incompetent douchebag as the Blue Sky incompetent douchebags running that show.

- Note that in the entirety of Holly's statement - published in the magazine with your report and analysis - fifteen months after the crash, she makes absolutely no mention of the absence of her fake focal point of her shoddy safe towing system. (Gotta give her some credit at least for that.)

- Note that on 2016/05/21 Jeff Bohl was flying pro toad at Quest behind a 582 Dragonfly with the same appropriate bridle that Holly was using and the 400 pound towline Tad-O-Link that everybody had three years prior decided they were happy with. It succeeded a millisecond before his driver, also conspicuously unidentified, made a good decision in the interest of HIS OWN safety, as his underpowered plane was about to get dragged down into the trees, and this highly qualified and current airline pilot finished an extremely distant second to what Holly managed. Any comment?

- Well, she's an accident pilot right? What more could we expect? (Ever write any accident reports referring to accident instructors and/or accident tug drivers? (Don't worry, Joe. I have ya covered here.))

- Bullshit.

She used the secondary elements of the two point bridle/release system which her exceptionally knowledgeable accident instructor had constructed, assembled, and sold her and on which her exceptionally knowledgeable accident instructor had trained her to operate in normal and emergency shituations. The secondary assembly comes into play when the cheap shoddy primary bridle welds itself to the tow ring - one out of a thousand times in normal and over half the time in lockout shituations when it starts mattering.

In that scenario the primary bridle becomes an extension of the towline, the primary bridle's bottom eye splice becomes the tow ring, the secondary bridle becomes THE bridle, and no weak link is needed because:

- at that point the pilot will simply and immediately actuate her easily reachable bent pin emergency release

- more components built into a system translates to increased complexity and increased complexity always translates to increased probability of system failure

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=11497
Aerotow release options?
Paul Hurless - 2009/05/01 16:35:30 UTC

Your arrogance is amazing and amusing. While I fully support everyone's right to speak their mind, I sure don't always agree with them.
Designing for failure modes that won't happen? What's the point of that, unnecessary complexity?

Adding more parts like pulleys and internally routed components makes it that much more likely that a device will fail. Simple is best.
See?

No focal point of a safe towing system on her bridle?

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=242
VOX
Paul Tjaden - 2005/03/12 14:54:17 UTC

I noticed that Jim Lamb uses two barrel releases and NO weak link.
The Accident Pilot used the secondary subsystem of the bridle/release system as her exceptionally knowledgeable, u$hPa award winning, highly experienced, professional accident instructor had designed it to be employed in worst case scenario situations - which is exactly what she experienced within a second of coming off the cart. It was totally in its totally intended element.

INSTALLING a weak link on her own initiative would've been dangerous and contrary to everything instilled in her training and constant coaching at Blue Sky.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=939
Weak link breaks?
Jim Rooney - 2005/08/31 23:46:25 UTC

As with many changes in avaition, change is approached with a bit of skepticism. Rightfully so. There's something to be said for "tried and true" methods... by strapping on somehting new, you become a test pilot. The unknown and unforseen become your greatest risk factors. It's up to each of us to individually asses the risks/rewards for ourselves.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/16 05:05:41 UTC

My general rule is "no funky shit". I don't like people reinventing the wheel and I don't like test pilots. Have I towed a few test pilots? Yup. Have I towed them in anything but very controlled conditions? Nope. It's a damn high bar. I've told more to piss off than I've told yes. I'll give you an example... I towed a guy with the early version of the new Lookout release. But the Tad-o-link? Nope.
See?

And besides...
USHGA Accident Report Summary
Pilot: Holly Korzilius
Reporter: Steve Wendt, USHGA Instructor # 19528
Date : 5/29/05

Summary: I observed the accident from a few hundred yards away, but could clearly see launch and the aero tow was coming towards my area so that I had a full view of the flight.
Dontchya think it obvious that Steve Wendt, USHGA Accident Instructor # 19528, would've known that she was using her secondary subsystem as her pro toad assembly for her first one point solo discovery flight and would have previously - or at the moment at the absolute least - advised her that she needed to install a weak link...
USHGA Accident Report Summary
Pilot: Holly Korzilius
Reporter: Steve Wendt, USHGA Instructor # 19528
Date : 5/29/05

This could have been done with a short clinic and if we thought it a possibility, been done under supervised conditions in the evening air.
...if we'd thought it a possibility?
After several oscillations, the glider locked out while still low.
What evidence do you have that it was locked out? If she was locked out that pretty much lets all the front end motherfuckers off the hook 'cause options for helping her out would've been substantially limited. But if she were just at the extremity of her third oscillation and on her way back for her fourth then the asshole on the accident tug making a good decision in the interest of her safety, the fake towline failure, a success of the focal point of her safe towing system if she'd had one would've sealed her fate.

Good thing for all the Blue Sky and u$hPa thugs that her memory got wiped, wasn't it Joe? Otherwise we might have had another perspective that would've sounded a lot like Nuno Fontes' on his 2006/05/06 - just a bit under a year later.
The tug pilot...
What tug pilot?
- Who was he and what did he have in the way of qualifications and experience level and range?
- Why do we have not so much as a single scrap of a quote pertaining to his perspective on the incident?
- Would it be too much trouble to let us know what he was flying? (Flightstar - Tom Peghiny.)

The important things we know about him:
- He was operating the tow illegally.
- The glider behind him was totaled and its pilot was two thirds killed.
- He's been totally clammed up about the incident for the past fifteen months.
- He was operating, according to an uncontradicted assertion by the flight park operator and this report, in a dangerous illegal configuration.

Another thing we know fer sure is that Joe's much better qualified to write the report than Accident Tex is 'cause he's the one writing the report. And ditto regarding Accident Steve.

But we shouldn't be investigating this angle in the least 'cause that would distract us from talking about the fact that we don't know how the pitch attitude was set on the cart.
...took action to release the towrope simultaneously with the failure of the Spectra® line.
- What's the difference between the "towrope" and the "Spectra® line"?

- "TOOK ACTION TO" release the "towrope"? If a dog had run out in front of his car would he have TAKEN ACTION to engage the hydraulic braking system? And how do you think the dog would've been doing while Tex was taking all that action?

- My my my... We certainly seem to be having quite a perfect storm of failures in this little window, don't we Joe?

Accident Holly failed to:
- find her primary bridle
- note that she had:
-- not completed the short pro toad clinic Blue Sky mandates to so qualify its student pilots
-- no weak link at her end of the line
-- an accident tug driver who never employed a weak link at his end of the line
- maintain steady safe control of her glider in the nonexistent dangerous midday turbulence into which she launched
- recognize the severity of the hazard of her situation
- effect the easy reach to her easily reachable bent pin barrel release in a timely manner
- gain the extra twenty feet she'd have needed for a safe recovery before her driver made a good decision in the interest of her safety

Her accident instructor failed to:
- advise her to fly a more forgiving glider due to her very questionable currency status
- inform:
-- her of the short pro toad clinic Blue Sky mandates to so qualify its student pilots
-- the accident launch crew that only properly qualified pro toad pilots would be permitted to get on the cart minus a two point bridle
- signal the accident tug driver to stand down as an unqualified Blue Sky student was hooking up pro toad:
-- on a high performance glider that required much better currency than she had maintained
-- in dangerous midday thermal conditions
- include the critical issue regarding flying pro toad had been clearly stated on the launch carts checklist

Her accident launch crew failed to:
- note that her safe towing system had no focal point
- inform her that only properly certified pro toad pilots would be permitted to hook up one point
- caution her about the deadly midday thermal turbulence into which she was about to launch on her first pro toad effort

Her accident tug driver failed to:
- ensure that a weak link within the legal min-max range was installed on his end of the towline
- his towline wasn't in such crap shape that it would disintegrate inside the range of tensions that would be expected for a normal light solo pull
- abort the tow before Holly got into too much trouble - as an appropriate weak link would have if there'd been one at either end of the towline
- maintain the tow after Holly had gotten into too much trouble to allow her to make it to the twenty extra feet she would've needed to recover

Her national hang gliding accident association failed to:
- establish Pro Toad Aerotowing:
-- proper universal proficiency training standards
-- certified instructors
-- a PT Special Skill such that only those AT pilots with the rating on their cards would be permitted to hook up minus a three point bridle
- denounce flying pro toad as the deadly fringe activity it is and:
-- ban all such activities in no uncertain terms as they decertify the glider and thus violate the conditions of u$hPa's FAA AT exemption
-- punish violators with ratings suspension and revocations

So how is it that only Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt's student is the only relevant individual held to more than a nickel's worth of accountability and everyone else on up the chain of command comes out smelling like roses?

(By the way... Do we know if Accident Steve billed her for the perfectly good towline she destroyed through her incompetent and negligent actions?)

- What's the source of this critical information that the "towrope" failed and why did no hint of it appear in the Version 1 report from the most highly qualified, experienced, exceptionally knowledgeable individual on site who witnessed the entire event and was the only witness - whose memory of the flight wasn't wiped - to put anything in print?

And now that I think about it...
Holly Korzilius - 2006/09

It was May, and my friend and I spent the day at the local flight park. I did not fly that day. Although conditions were safe to fly in, conditions did not look good for staying up. That evening a party was thrown at the flight park in recognition of my instructor's selection as the USHGA Hang Gliding Instructor of the Year.
...
I discussed 'towing off the shoulders' with a couple of other pilots, as this was something I thought I could do with the remaining portions of my aerotow release. I did not discuss my intent to tow off the shoulders with either of the hang gliding instructors present prior to launching.
...
Based on the other pilots' reports, my glider ended up perpendicular to the tug's flight path and the Spectra® tow line snapped.
...
Numerous pilots ran to my aid. With his prior military police training, one pilot took charge of the accident scene. He kept people from crowding in. Another one had completed nurse training and was studying for her registered nurse exam. She provided whatever medical assistance she could (making sure I was kept warm, and that I was not moved - fearing a neck injury, etc.). My parachute was taken out and used to shade me from the bright sun. Someone cut the sail on my hang glider to aid in my extraction.
THAT totally STINKS.

The field had been SWARMING with rated hang glider pilots in close proximity to this disaster. Good chance it was the first flight of the day - and note we don't hear any reports of the lethal midday thermal turbulence from anyone who'd launched just prior. (And nobody was able to fly later 'cause their best/only towrope had just been broken through The Accident Pilot's negligence.)

Probably also getting briefed on the best version of what they saw that could be concocted in what remained of the afternoon. If Holly had completed the tow, sunk out, bonked her landing due to an imperfectly timed flare we'd have heard sixty opinions from thirty individuals on what she'd done wrong and nothing from her accident instructor. And what we get from this near fatal is the precise opposite. Major Code of Silence bullshit kicking in.

Sound...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34243
Fatal HG crash in Tres Pinos CA 4-3-2016
AdamG - 2016/04/10 15:37:46 UTC

I was there- im a hang 2 student that was towing that day. I saw Nancy's gliders final impact with the ground and I saw her condition afterward. (I'm not the student referred to earlier in this post). It was a tragic situation.

Pat sent us all an email last night about the incident and So maybe you'll get the accident report soon. There were 2 or perhaps three of us in the area besides pat who were in a position to see anything about what was happening. I don't think any of us will be saying anything more about the incident until if and when it's time to give testimony to the proper authorities. Ushpa hasn't contacted me and I'm not sure they will.
...familiar?
USHPA Awards

Pat Denevan
- 1992 - NAA Safety
- 2001 - Hang Gliding Instructor of the Year
Steve Wendt
- 2004 - Hang Gliding Instructor of the Year
- 2007 - NAA Safety
Bookends.

- Versions...

-- In Version 1....
USHGA Accident Report Summary
Pilot: Holly Korzilius
Reporter: Steve Wendt, USHGA Instructor # 19528
Date : 5/29/05

Holly immediately had control problems right off the dolly and completed 3 oscilations before it took her 90 degrees from the tow vehicle upon when the tug pilot hit the release and Holly continued turning away from the tow in a fairly violent exchange of force .
...the accident tug pilot hit the release upon when Holly had completed 3 oscilations before it took her 90 degrees from the accident tow vehicle and Accident Holly continued turning away from the tow in a fairly violent exchange of force . No particular reason cited, just when it took her 90 degrees from the tow vehicle.

-- In Version 2...

http://ozreport.com/9.132
Blue Sky
Davis Straub - 2005/06/21
Blue Sky, Manquin, Virginia

Eighth, without a weaklink the tug pilot had to release her, but too late when she was already in a too dangerous condition, but when she was endangering the tug pilot. The pilot was too low and too out of whack to recover in time.
...the Unidentified Accident Tug Pilot without a weaklink HAD to release her, but too late when she was already in a too dangerous condition, BUT when she was endangering the Accident Tug Pilot and The Other Accident Pilot was too low and too out of whack to recover in time. The Accident Pilot, did I mention, being without a weaklink.

-- In Version 3...
Joe Gregor - 2006/09

After several oscillations, the glider locked out while still low. The tug pilot took action to release the towrope simultaneously with the failure of the Spectra® line.
...the Accident Tug Pilot took action to release the towrope simultaneously with the failure of the Spectra® line.

Where to fuckin' begin? It's so overwhelming that I'm not even gonna try to start. Other than to say that this had to be the watershed moment in hang gliding history when u$hPa figured out that it could say ANYTHING it felt like and it WOULDN'T MATTER. Probably the cornerstone for the foundation for later iterations like 2015/03/27 Jean Lake.
The accident pilot...
THE accident pilot? You're characterizing the clusterfuck as an "accident", right?

You've already referred to "The tug pilot". The tug pilot was:

- obviously aware that "THE accident pilot" was hooking up pro toad in deadly midday thermal turbulence conditions. And if he weren't he was even more grossly negligent in not knowing how she was hooked up.

- grossly negligent in failing to:
-- verify with a competent launch crew that "THE accident pilot" was properly configured with a legal range weak link
-- have a legal range weak link properly installed at his end
-- maintain a non shit towline that wouldn't vaporize at when-the-fuck-ever
-- quickly and safely abort a tow that was rapidly heading south
-- maintain the tow the several additional seconds needed to get "THE accident pilot" to a safe recovery altitude

So if we have to designate one individual as "THE accident pilot" I'd be of the persuasion that Holly is a really crappy choice. She was operating at the best her ability, experience, training would allow and her only mistakes were to trust the competence and professionalism of the two motherfuckers at the airfield at the time presenting themselves as instructors and get into a very short (three swings) oscillation cycle.
...managed to level the wings...
Wow. So the instant she was out of her shitty illegal Blue Sky pro toad configuration she managed to level her wings - despite being on a glider on which she was so dangerously non-current and being in those lethally turbulent midday conditions. Go figure.
...but was unable to further recover from the ensuing dive before ground impact.
- Thanks for specifying that it was a GROUND impact. Otherwise we might have been thinking it was an impact with a kid on a bike, cow, Canada Goose, the old Frisbee in the middle of the runway...

- Oh. She was unABLE to further recover from the ensuing dive before ground impact. 'Cause her ABILITIES weren't quite up to snuff, right? You certainly wouldn't wanna say anything along the lines of her being too low to recover from the severe stall.

Here's what we have from Version 1:
USHGA Accident Report Summary
Pilot: Holly Korzilius
Reporter: Steve Wendt, USHGA Instructor # 19528
Date : 5/29/05

Holly pulled in to have control speed and then began rounding out , but there was not enough altitude and she hit the ground before she could do so.
Too much credit for responding as a competent pilot. Problematic though - as the author is the exceptionally knowledgeable instructor who taught her and signed her off for everything she knows north of a dozen California beach hops. Version 2:

http://www.ozreport.com/9.133
Lesson from an aerotow accident report
Davis Straub - 2005/06/23 02:00 UTC

The pilot was too low and too out of whack to recover in time.
Slightly better. She let herself get too far out of whack - mostly by failing to use an appropriate weak link with a finished length of 1.5 inches or less. Version 3:
THE accident pilot MANAGED to level the wings but WAS UNABLE to further recover from the ensuing dive before ground impact.
The accident pilot (hell, who wants to go flying with an ACCIDENT PILOT anywhere near the cockpit) managed (at the limits of her rather feeble abilities) to level the wings but was unable to further recover (despite having virtually unlimited time and altitude) before ground impact (her idea of an acceptable landing). Well done, Joe. Course you u$hPa spin doctor motherfuckers have had fifteen months to properly refine things by this point.
It was several weeks after her "release" before this pilot could actually say she was enjoying life once again.
- And here I was thinking that The Accident Tug pilot could fix whatever was going on back there by giving The Accident Pilot the accident rope.
- How 'bout her glider and harness? How were they feeling about things?
She was a reasonably experienced H-3 at the time of her accident...
- So was she advanced enough to be comfortable flying prone with her hands on the control bar?

- But certainly not a reasonably enough experienced H-3 at the time of her accident to have previously been taught anything to get her prepared for pro towing. Only the best of the best are assigned Jedi masters to gradually reveal the secrets necessary to begin the climb to that stratospheric level of human accomplishment.

119-083237
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....having started her training at Marina State Beach in California in the summer of 2001.
Yeah? Where and when the fuck did she FINISH her training?
Glenn Zapien

Always a student.
If flying pro toad is an actual legitimate skill - as Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt is representing it in no uncertain terms - then why was the only half-assed excuse for instruction, coaching, advancement this short discussion she had with her volunteer accident launch crew guys two or three minutes before she piled in?

If it's an actual legitimate skill all the two pointer faggots flying gliders commonly flown one should all be constantly inching their upper/trim attachments aft on the keel to their hang points then down the harness suspension to the point that they're effectively flying one point and ready for their PT Special Skill signoffs. And the fact that nothing remotely like this ever happens in the real world makes it blindingly obvious that this is nothing but a dangerous control compromise to accommodate the use of cheap crap equipment.
By October of that year she had moved to Virginia, where she took her instruction via scooter tow.
Oh, so when she survives her initial flying education minus a scratch you narrow it down to a little strip of sand on Monterey Bay we can quickly translate to Pat Denevan. But when she gets totally fuckin' demolished "Virginia" is as specific as you wanna get. We can still jump to Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt pretty easily but... Sounds like we're not trying real hard to advertise a top quality operation.
By December, she had her first solo high flight experience by truck tow. The following August saw her logging flights up to four hours long.
Presumably at Manquin - rather than Woodstock - 'cause you're not saying anything about mountain launch and flying experience. So four hour flatlands pure thermal flights. That's someone who knows how to fly any certified glider you wanna throw at her and doesn't need to worry about currency issues. (Not to be confused with a Greblo product who's kept upright on the control tubes for forty hours worth of Kagel sleds before he's allowed to prone out and touch the basetube.)
In late August 2002, she learned to aerotow, and had logged approximately 75 aerotows (and over 100 truck tows) by the time of the accident.
But still couldn't qualify as a PROFESSIONAL aerotower 'cause she was still using that sissy two point crap. Reminds me a lot of...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29884
Hat Creek Power Whack
Mike Bilyk - 2013/09/07 17:07:26 UTC

Wheel landings are for girls!
...wheel landings.
She currently holds special skills signoffs for AT, FL, PL, ST, and TUR...
- But no PT. Her only foray into that time honored discipline was an immediate, instant, near total disaster. Go figure.

- Oh. She had a TURBULENCE rating. Funny that qualification did her no good whatsoever in that really nasty midday shit she found the instant she came off the cart.

- Seems to me, now that I think of it, that if you have BOTH an AT and Turbulence rating a PT stamp on the card should be automatic. Likewise an AT and PT should get you a TUR. Can anybody think of any reasons why not?
...and has flown a variety of gliders including the Wills Wing Condor, Falcon, Eagle, and Ultrasport, as well as the Moyes Sonic and Litesport 4.
The latter having recently been converted to scrap as a consequence of u$hPa sanctioned dangerous fringe activity.
She was obviously qualified to perform the attempted maneuver (launching via aerotow).
- Suck my dick, Joe. NOBODY's qualified - obviously nor to any lesser degree - to fly a decertified glider. There is no PT Special Skill signoff one can use to verify his obvious qualification and this:

http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4174/34261733815_bfb41c49d8_o.jpg
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06-03114
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...unfortunate asshole definitively ended any discussion with the slightest taint of honesty on the pro toad issue.

- Got news for ya, Joe. It's a bit of a stretch to refer to coming straight off a cart and climbing straight behind an accident tug for several hundred feet as a MANEUVER. Also...
Dennis Pagen - 2005/01

The first accident occurred in Germany at an aerotowing competition. The pilot launched with his Litespeed and climbed to about 40 feet when he encountered a thermal that lifted him well above the tug. After a few moments, the glider was seen to move to the side and rapidly turn nose down to fly into the ground, still on tow, in a classic lockout maneuver. The impact was fatal.
Pretentious fucking assholes.
Discussion
Oh good. A "DISCUSSION". On u$hPa's sleazy rag where the only individuals permitted to DISCUSS anything are u$hPa approved operatives such as yourself. And unfortunately the accident flight park operator and accident tug pilot both have prior commitments and won't be available to participate in either the discussion itself or the half hour Q&A session immediately following.

One asshole having a discussion with himself - saying whatever the fuck he feels like regardless of how incompatible it is with prior versions and with zero fear of being called out or having anything inconvenient published in any Letters to the Editor.
So what can we learn from this?
Obviously tons. WE are all at the same clueless level 'cause all of our instruction sucks like nobody can believe. Whenever there's a demolished glider and two thirds killed pilot the issues are always ones that WE have never seen before and would've been totally impossible to predict using the solid aeronautical theory Wilbur and Orville developed at the beginning of the previous century. It's NEVER 'cause of total shit fringe activity conducted by u$hPa Made Men who should've been escorted from the crash site in handcuffs, convicted of criminal negligence, relieved of their last pennies over damages awards, banned from the sport for life plus fifty.
What would you have done differently to avoid a similar experience?
- Just about ANYTHING, dickhead.

- I'd have first taken the short clinic and, if we thought it a possibility, done it under supervised conditions in the evening air. Then it would be physically impossible for anything bad to ever happen to me in any aerotowing shituation that could ever be thrown at me. (Kinda makes one wonder how Zack Marzec so quickly ended up as dead as he did - what with the environment as oozing as it was with ratings, experience, expertise, perfected aerotowing.)
- Any thoughts on why that small investment in Holly's safety education had never been undertaken by Blue Sky?
- And I'll bet you won't be saying much about this issue in the rest of your report.
No one can say for sure what specifically occurred to cause this accident, including the accident pilot.
- Yeah? Version 1:

http://www.ozreport.com/9.133
Lesson from an aerotow accident report
USHGA Accident Report Summary
Pilot: Holly Korzilius
Reporter: Steve Wendt, USHGA Instructor # 19528
Date : 5/29/05

Summary: I observed the accident from a few hundred yards away, but could clearly see launch and the aero tow was coming towards my area so that I had a full view of the flight. I was at the wreckage in a few seconds and afterwards gathered the information that helps understand the results of some unfortunate poor decisions of the injured pilot.
He doesn't record so much as a BLINK's worth of a miss of the slightest element of relevant detail. Neither cites nor expresses the slightest need to cite a single scrap of information from the accident tug pilot's perspective. And nobody's ever taken the slightest issue with any element of that report. Ditto regarding Versions 1 and 2 - despite all the obvious omissions, inconsistencies, contradictions, lies. (All you motherfuckers do is treat it as if it never existed when you're crafting better and tailored stories to suit your purposes.)

- Also, of course, any of the thousands of u$hPa members and non member hang glider pilots who aren't being permitted to participate in your monologue. Sorry - "DISCUSSION".

- And any of you motherfuckers who CAN say for sure what specifically occurred to cause this accident... Take the hint and keep your fuckin' mouth shut - like the scores of eyewitnesses who watched this atrocity unfold real-time. This is the official u$hPa version of what happened and why - and you're gonna totally love it.

Compare the above to:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
Paul Tjaden - 2013/02/07 23:47:58 UTC

Beyond these facts anything else would be pure speculation.
...
I wish I could shed more light on this accident but I am afraid this is all we know and probably will know. Zach was a great guy with an incredible outlook and zest for life. He will be sorely missed.
Pattern look familiar? These are the official u$hPa / Flight Park Mafia FACTS, we've spent five days carefully crafting them, if you have a different take based on what Mark Frutiger immediately blurted out without first clearing it with our experienced damage control operatives it's one hundred percent PURE unadulterated SPECULATION. And we don't really cotton to speculators all that well in this neck of the swamp. Capiche?
She doesn't even remember the event.
Nah. She doesn't even remember the event.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks
Jim Rooney - 2013/03/05 19:42:58 UTC

My god my head hurts.

Wow...
So you know what happened then?
OMG... thank you for your expert accident analysis. You better fly down to FL and let them know. I'm sure they'll be very thankful to have such a crack expert mind on the case analyzing an accident that you know nothing about. Far better data than the people that were actually there. In short... get fucked.
And she'd be remembering even less if the runway surface were a bit harder and she'd been killed instantly. And then we'd all REALLY be screwed as far as understanding any of the relevant issues and what we could learn. The way we were with...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
Swift - 2013/02/27 14:22:49 UTC

Zack wasn't "sitting on the couch" when a cheap piece of string made the decision to dump him at the worst possible time.
William Olive - 2013/02/27 20:55:06 UTC

Like the rest of us, you have no idea what really happened on that tow.

We probably never will know.
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/28 01:17:55 UTC

Well said Billo
I'm a bit sick of all the armchair experts telling me how my friend died.

Ah but hg'ers get so uppity when you tell them not to speculate.
...Zack Marzec.
Others observed segments of the accident sequence from their own unique perspectives.
Yeah?

- What others? Obviously everyone who wasn't YOU, just the people who were ACTUALLY THERE and WATCHING this clusterfuck of an aerotow launch - 'cause you don't cite one single source in your bullshit report. Hell, you don't even cite the site.

-- There's a narrative from Holly included in this article but her memory of the shit that involved movement isn't any better than mine - probably worse 'cause I know Accident Steve from way back and was never the least bit dependent on Blue Sky to get any airtime worth mentioning.

-- Nothing from:

--- Accident Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt:
---- Blue Sky:
----- owner
----- operator
----- aerotowing equipment manufacturer
---- highly respected and experienced u$hPa award winning accident instructor and safety contributor

--- Accident Tex Forrest - the:
---- supplier of the power that:
----- got The Accident Pilot airborne
----- was translated to the accident impact energy which:
------ shattered The Accident Pilot's face
------ wiped her memory of the flight and removed her as a useful source of a lot of inconvenient information
----- accident individual most responsible for the safety of The Accident Pilot - given the total shit equipment Blue Sky sold her to hook her up

--- Any member of the Volunteer Accident Launch Crew whom:
---- Accident Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt:
----- trained and certified with the AT rating which required with respect to hang glider aerotowing a full understanding of the:
------ relevant FAA regulations (same as for sailplanes) and u$hPa SOPs
------ forces involved and effects on the aircraft
------ micrometeorological conditions necessary for safe operation
------ most current and popular opinions regarding the strengths and purposes of the Standard Aerotow Weak Link
----- qualified as Pro Toads in the short clinics which, if we thought them possibilities, could have been done:
------ under supervised conditions
------ in the evening air
---- Holly consulted with concerning doing her first pro toad flight in the lethally turbulent midday conditions then ramping up

- So OTHERS observed SEGMENTS of the accident sequence from their own UNIQUE PERSPECTIVES.

-- How 'bout the conspicuously unidentified:

--- accident flight park operator / Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt? Was he not one of the OTHERS because he observed the whole goddam clusterfuck from before launch through to impact and beyond and not just SEGMENTS?

--- accident tug driver / Accident Pilot In Command / Tex Forrest - who:
---- started off and flew for the entire devolution of the incident in closer proximity to the/his victim than any other known individual
---- was:
----- required to and almost certainly did maintain constant visual contact with his victim through the duration of the tow
----- in flagrant violation of FAA AT Regs and u$hPa AT SOPs regarding weak link configuration
----- the only individual with direct legal responsibility for the conduct of the accident tow

-- Oh. So OTHERS observed SEGMENTS of the accident sequence from their own UNIQUE PERSPECTIVES.

--- NOBODY saw the entire flight from launch to impact - including:
---- Accident Steve Wendt who stated in his 2005/05/29 submitted report to his u$hPa overlords in no uncertain terms that he DID
---- Accident Tex Forrest:
----- Accident Pilot In Command of the tow whose job it was to monitor the condition of his passenger at least until safe altitude had been attained
----- for whom we have Accident Steve reporting NOTHING to indicate:
------ a nanosecond's worth of break in observation
------ any action or lack thereof that sent the shituation further down the toilet than was inevitable as a consequence of the poor decisions of The Accident Pilot
---- Any members of the Volunteer Accident Launch Crew who, confident that The Accident Pilot was totally good to go in midday conditions on her first foray into the realm of pro towing that they turned away so abruptly that they missed her immediately having control problems right off the dolly and completing 3 oscilations before it took her 90 degrees from the tow vehicle upon when the tug pilot hit the release and Holly continued turning away from the tow in a fairly violent exchange of force . It was only upon feeling a substantial ground tremor that he turned back around and realized all had not gone well but having not the slightest clue as to why not.
--- Unique perspectives. No two individuals:
---- were standing close enough together to see a particular SEGMENT of the flight such that their interpretations were the same - including the members of the Volunteer Accident Launch Crew
---- could agree on the relevant issues of the flight because of the widely varying viewing angles

Funny we didn't hear the tiniest hints of anything any of these terminally hopeless confusion issues in either Version 1 or Version 2.

- Accident Steve makes zero note even of a single other witness - let alone anyone with another unique perspective. And Accident Tex was obviously asleep at the switch, looking totally forward the whole time until his ass was getting pulled ninety degrees sideways not to abort the flight before she got too far out of whack - as any appropriate weak link with a finished length of 1.5 inches or less would have known to do.

- We've never heard a single note of disagreement from a single individual with a different unique perspective regarding the tiniest detail in either Version 1, 2, or 3 - despite the fact that they contradict the shit outta each other.

- So one really wonders how you managed to concoct the unique full narrative segment perspective of your own, despite not having been in "Virginia" at the time of the "accident". What did you do? Assemble the most convenient unique perspective segments, shred the ones you didn't like and tell their authors to keep their mouths shut, fill in all the inconvenient gaps with u$hPa's unique perspective segments?
No one had the God's-eye view required to see it all and understand what really happened.
Really? Reading Version 1 I got the distinct impression that Accident Steve had the ideal perspective on the incident and everyone and his dog knows that he understands twenty times more about hang gliding than God could ever hope to in in half a dozen eternities.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17404
Aerotow barrel release - straight or curved pin?
Jim Rooney - 2010/05/31 01:53:13 UTC

BTW, Steve Wendt is exceptionally knowledgeable. Hell, he's the one that signed off my instructor rating.
God never had the wisdom and exceptionally knowledgeable to sign off Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney's instructor rating. Which parts of this picture are you having so much trouble understanding?
One thing we can focus...
Image
...on would be the change in routine caused by the pilot's change of equipment.
- Other things WE can FOCUS Image on would be all the contradictions, omissions, misrepresentations, lies, and general sleaziness involved in the whitewashing of this u$hPa / Flight Park Mafia perpetrated atrocity.

- She didn't "CHANGE" SHIT - asshole she OMITTED and rendered INERT eighty percent of her already cheap, shoddy, substantially useless excuse for an aerotowing assembly. And she did it after consultation with and approval from unpaid appointed volunteer Blue Sky staffers.

And now that I think of it... If that exceptionally knowledgeable motherfucker had happened to have been available at launch he'd have UNDOUBTEDLY given her the green because she had mainstream aerotowing experience and competence coming outta her ass and this is EXACTLY how EVERYONE who's ever "graduated" to pro toad has done it - not a single individual through one of these fake pro toad clinics Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt pretends he conducts.

The sonuvabitch watched the whole goddam thing from start to the last siren sound fading in the distance and never made the slightest pretense of not realizing who was going up pro toad until it was too late to do anything about anything. There is ZERO difference between him having allowed that tow to proceed from several hundred yards upwind of launch and having been assisting at launch himself and having given her the green to advance to the next level of hang glider aerotowing proficiency. If Holly wasn't qualified to take her first hop this shoddy lethal crap at this point in her career then nobody else ever was in his or hers.

And here's Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt's product Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney lecturing us stupid muppets on the pro toad versus three point issue:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9230
Departing the launch cart
Jim Rooney - 2007/08/24 12:20:06 UTC

Bad habit #1, not flying the glider... just letting the tug drag you around by the nose, combines with the fact that pro towing REQUIRES the pilot to do something (not let that bar move). So instead of holding the bar where it is, bad habit pilot just lets the tug pull him. This pulls him through the control frame with the same effect as the pilot pulling in... a LOT.

I've seen gliders go negative while still on the cart this way.
The results are never pretty.
The pilot has to DO SOMETHING. Yeah, I think I can probably handle that. Given Holly's ratings, Special Skills signoffs, airtime, experience, accomplishments I'd hazard a guess that she was up to DOING SOMETHING too.

And remember...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25536
Whoops! Snapped another tip wand :-O
NMERider - 2012/03/14 15:17:14 UTC

Landing clinics don't help in real world X/C flying. I have had the wind do 180 degree 15 mph switches during my final legs. What landing clinic have you ever attended that's going to help? I saved that one by running like a motherfukker. And BTW - It was on large rocks on an groomed surface.

Jim Rooney threw a big tantrum and stopped posting here.

His one-technique-fits-all attitude espoused on the ORF has become tiresome to read. It does not work in the fucked-up world of X/C landings and weary pilots.
Christopher LeFay - 2012/03/15 05:57:43 UTC

January's canonization of Rooney as the Patron Saint of Landing was maddening. He offered just what people wanted to hear: there is an ultimate, definitive answer to your landing problems, presented with absolute authority. Judgment problems? His answer is to remove judgment from the process - doggedly stripping out critical differences in gliders, loading, pilot, and conditions. This was just what people wanted - to be told a simple answer. In thanks, they deified him, carving his every utterance in Wiki-stone.
...when he solved all of our flare timing perfection problems for us half a dozen years ago? Odd that "DOING SOMETHING" was all he ever had to say on the mysteries and subtleties of world class pro towing.

- Please explain to me how any of the crap she'd been using to get airborne at that dump merits the designation of "equipment"?
It seems reasonable...
Please don't start going reasonable on us at this point in our DISCUSSION. It could only serve to confuse and derail us.
...to assume the launching from the shoulders alone (the so-called "pro-tow")...
The SO-CALLED "pro-tow"? Interesting tone you're expressing there, Joe. Seems to betray an attitude about not dissimilar to the one of Yours Truly. Think we can expand a little? The SO-CALLED instructional program, aerotow operation, aerotowing equipment, Blue Sky management?
...would represent a substantial modification of the entire aerotow system.
Well, all elements of aerotowing - aerodynamics; bridles; releases; weak link materials, constructions, strengths, purposes; proficiency, Cone of Safety limits, crash analyses - are strictly matters of opinions anyway... So sure. Why not?
As pilots of what the FAA would consider a (highly) experimental aircraft...
Fuck you Joe. u$hPa sleazebags originally obtained their aerotowing exemption on the condition that elements of a set of guidelines be adhered to. Some of the more relevant shit:
USHGA - 1985/07
USHGA Aerotow Guidelines
from the USHGA Safety and Training Committee

The FAA has granted the USHGA an exemption that allows aerotowing of hang gliders according to these guidelines. Aerotowing is a new and different way of flying hang gliders and must be done according to these guidelines for safety and legality.

I RATINGS

AEROTOW GLIDER PILOT: This is the rating that allows a pilot to be aerotowed without being observed by an aerotow instructor.

1) Must possess at least a USHGA Intermediate rating.

2) Demonstrate five aerotows under supervision of USHGA Certified Instructor qualified to teach towing. Each flight must demonstrate proper procedures, including smooth, clean launches, proper position in straight flight and turns.

3) Pilot must pass the oral test.

Until a pilot receives this rating, all aerotows must be sponsored by an under the guidance of an aerotow instructor.

AEROTOWING INSTRUCTOR: This is the rating that allows a pilot to teach other pilots to be aerotowed and to teach other pilots to be tug pilots.

1) Must hold a USHGA Instructor card for at least six months.

2) Successfully pass a towing instructor certification program, demonstrating capabilities in the form of aerotowed flights in different conditions and experience teaching pilots to be aerotowed.

TUG PILOT: This is the rating that allows a pilot to tow pilots with an aerotow rating or under the supervision of an aerotowing instructor. It is given by an aerotow instructor who has witnessed a pilot who has flown a minimum of ten aerotows, demonstrating proper procedures, including smooth takeoffs, straight flight and turns, and passed the oral test. Until a pilot receives this rating, all aerotows must be sponsored by and under the guidance of an aerotow instructor. A tug pilot cannot tow a pilot who has fewer than five tows.

II AEROTOWING EQUIPMENT

1) The tow line connection to the towing vehicle must be arranged so as not to hinder the control system of the towing vehicle.

2) A pilot-operational release must connect the tow line to the towing vehicle. This release must be operational with zero line force up to twice the breaking strength of the tow line.

3) A weak link must be placed between the tow line and the release at both ends of the tow line with the forward link ten percent stronger than the rearward weak link. The weak link must have a breaking strength less than 85% the weight of the hang glider and pilot combination, not to exceed 200 pounds.

4) A release must be placed at the hang glider end of the tow line within easy reach of the pilot. This release shall be operational with zero tow line force up to twice the rated breaking strength of the tow line.

5) A drogue device must be placed midway to 3/4 back from the tow vehicle on the tow line to prevent the tow line from reaching the tow vehicle propeller.

6) The tow line must be at least 150% as strong as the weak link in use.

THE AERO TUG: The ultralight used as a tug should have a wing loading so that its best climb speed is 25 to 38 mph (in thermal conditions, best climb speed must be over 30 mph). It must have enough power to tow a hang glider at a rate of climb of at least 300 feet per minute. The tug must have a concave rear view mirror so the tug pilot can see the glider at all times. The tug pilot should be able to operate the forward release without releasing the throttle or any of the flight controls.

THE AEROTOW GLIDER: The towed vehicle must meet or exceed the Hang Glider Manufacturers Association airworthiness standards.
...
A pitch enhancement device may be installed for improved pitch control on tow. Pitch devices must be installed and tuned according to the manufacturer's specifications.

THE AEROTOW BRIDLE: The tow bridle should be tested to a tension of 300 pounds and should release easily at that tension. It should also operate properly with zero tension and be constructed so that it cannot release accidentally.

III OPERATIONS

Aerotowing is complex and must be properly organized to be safe and efficient.

In practice, a particular site and weather pattern will have a standard routing and most pilots will know what to do. It is the launch director's responsibility to make sure everyone knows what to do. Considerations for establishing a routine include pilot skill, surface winds, winds aloft, runway direction, areas of turbulence, lift and sink, emergency landing zones to be used in case of line breaks or engine failures and separation between gliders, obstacles, tug and line. Training flights should be made in calm air.

PREFLIGHT PROCEDURES: Check the tug for adequate fuel supply. Preflight and test fly the tug. Preflight the line by stretching it out on the ground and inspecting its entire length including weak links, all knots, splices and fittings. Worn lines should be replaced. Test the tug release. Hook in to the glider and do a full hang check and then hook on to the tow line. The proper order for hooking in is as follows:

1) Hook in to the glider.
2) Hang check.
3) Hook on to the tow line.

If it becomes necessary to unhook:

1) Release the tow line.
2) Unhook from the glider.

Test the tow bridle release. Pilots are warned to turn their heads to avoid being struck by the release.

LAUNCH PROCEDURES: The tug pilot must take care to avoid causing problems for the glider pilot due to prop wash. Tug and glider pilot must have an established communication system for determining launch initiation. In all cases the glider pilot initiates launch. Slack line takeoffs should be avoided during training flights. Visual contact in the rear view mirror must be maintained at all times. The tug pilot should release the rope if there is any problem. The glider will lift off before the tug and the glider pilot will immediately transition to the base tube for optimal control and fly level about 12 feet above the ground until the tug lifts off and starts climbing.

AEROTOWING FLIGHT PROCEDURES: As soon as the tug lifts off and starts climbing, the glider will also climb and should remain in a position recommended by the tug pilot. If the glider is too high, the glider pilot should correct the relative position of the glider if necessary. Control inputs should be reduced under tow because energy exchange between tug and glider exaggerates response to control inputs.

AEROTOWING POSTFLIGHT PROCEDURE: The glider end of the rope should be checked for accidental knots and untied if necessary. Never tow with a knot in a line because they weaken the rope, cause premature wear and can be very difficult to untie.
For the time being note that there's NOTHING in there about any aspect of anything we're doing being the slightest bit "EXPERIMENTAL". The second sentence in the document gives the lie to that claim you conveniently pulled outta your ass. u$hPa is asserting that it knows exactly how to conduct hang glider aerotowing perfectly safely and already has the SOPs in place. And Blue Sky violated the crap outta damn near all of them to achieve the results they did.

And fuck the FAA and ANYTHING it considers EXPERIMENTAL anyway. If it didn't have its head perpetually lodged three feet up its ass it would've NEVER accepted easily reachable releases and weak links that - AT BEST - maxed out almost exactly where their legal minimum for sailplanes starts - the sailplane aerotowing regulations which had gone into effect for hang gliders the September before this Blue Sky atrocity was perpetrated. And LEGITIMATE weak link specs have NEVER been determined through experimentation - just common sense and competence in grade school level arithmetic. Stuff way outta u$hPa's league.

And another thought... If the FAA would consider a hang glider a (highly) experimental aircraft then what the fuck are they doing allowing u$hPa to sell tandem thrill rides to eleven year old kids...

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...on the pretense of increasing the overall safety of the sport through tandem instruction?
...we are all a little bit test pilot...
You can be, Joe. You're an asshole. Me? I never learned anything test flying beyond what Wilbur and Orville had figured out a little over three quarters of a century a few miles up the beach from where I first hooked into a hang glider.

And when I get on the end of a rope in violent thermal conditions behind a 115 horsepower turbocharged tug with some total douchebag driving it and a tow mast breakaway protector installed to REALLY increase the safety of the towing operation I know EXACTLY what I'm up against and what I will and won't be able to deal with. And I finally decided that I couldn't tolerate the front end flagrantly illegal bullshit any more and tried to get something done about it.
...even in our routine day-to-day operations.
- 'Specially the ones they have at shitrigged operations like Blue Sky.

- Yeah Joe, we're all a little bit test pilot - even in our routine day-to-day operations. Maybe you can cite me one example of one mildly exciting new discovery that's been made in the course of our history starting at any post Wilbur and Orville point you'd care to define as the beginning of it.
Mike Lake

The club purchased a static winch from Len and towing had arrived.

A meeting was arranged sometime later to discuss the way forward. It was well attended and many issues were discussed.

On the 26th September 1979 at the Fleece in Suffolk.

The club had one valuable member (Brian Barry? I can't remember) who had studied tethered flight in some detail. He had been appointed a tow technical adviser.

His name was Brian Pattenden.

During discussions he described his theory that some part of the tow force should go through THE PILOT.

You may wish to reread the above. What was being described was C of M towing. I believe this was a first, worldwide!

It was a radical suggestion at the time and was greeted with silence. However, the seeds had been sown.

Unfortunately, at the same meeting, when asked for his advice on safe towing his answer was 'DON'T DO IT'. This was not what several dozen flight starved pilots wanted to hear. His short reign as tow technical advisor came to an end.
- That was the hugest single evolutionary jump in the history of this douchebag sport.

- It shouldn't have happened. It should've been obvious before the first hang glider ever got pulled up by a rope. And hang gliders were getting pulled up by ropes eons before they were ever pulled into the air by harness suspensions connected to guys running down hills. The fact that this innovation came about the way it did at the time it did is ironclad proof that the sport's been massively incompetent with respect to fundamental aeronautical theory since Day One.

- It wasn't a benefit from or consequence of any form of TEST FLYING. The rapid worldwide shift first started arising from one individual capable of thinking about how to tow gliders in the light of aeronautical THEORY. And when Donnell Hewett shortly thereafter came up with a rather warped version of the same concept and tried to present it to US hang gliding by way of u$hPa a bunch of test flying motherfuckers such as yourself immediately silenced him without making the slightest effort to flight test anything he was saying.

- The guy with the brains - more than everyone else in the world involved in hang glider towing at the time (including Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey by the way) - never even stuck around long enough to fly his idea.

- And when Yours Truly implemented the first and last bulletproof, ENGINEERED, aerodynamically clean, internally routed, two point aerotow release system you fuckin' douchebags operatives bent over backwards to ignore it, pretend it didn't exist, piss all over it. You had just about two teaspoons worth over zero interest installing one on your glider. (A Fusion I think it was.)
Many have adopted the discipline of only changing one thing at a time in their setup, equipment, or routine, in order to mitigate the dangers of being inadvertently pushed to the outside of their safe flight envelope.
Like when they begin aerotowing. First they just put an easily reachable bent pin barrel release on their right shoulder loop. The next time out a four foot long bridle is secured at the left tow loop and engaged by the release... ...Then on Day 15 the tug pulls the glider twenty yards down the runway in calm air at a speed not exceeding eight miles per hour.

I've always totally fuckin' DESPISED those idiots. A REAL pilot is able to understand and think through all the issues before he goes up. Holly's downfall was trusting total douchebags, letting them do her thinking for her, assuming that something thousands of flyers were doing over hundreds of thousands of tows must be OK.
They would test these changes under benign, controlled conditions, to increase the safety factor, and only then move on to more challenging conditions. Only after they had become comfortable with the new system would they add another change, under the same conditions as before.
Holly only changed one thing relevant in this clusterfuck incident. She omitted her primary bridle. The consequences were in the same ballpark for what Rafi Lavin experienced when he load tested his sidewires a second after launching at Funston on 2015/08/23 and one of them changed. But fortunately he was still using the same backup loop he'd been flying with since the beginning of the season so things didn't turn out nearly as badly as they might have otherwise.
Our accident pilot did indeed make a single change, after seeking the advice of fellow pilots whose opinions she respected - but she flew the new system for the first time under normal soaring conditions.
- Really? So you're totally discounting the elimination of the weak link about which Accident Steve and Davis were making such big stinks? How very odd.

- Do let us know when you can point to a single instance of any issue that affected her more than what she would've experienced anyway in totally dead air after having rolled off of grass still soaked in morning dew.
This may have reduced her safety margin...
Yeah. MAY HAVE. None of you motherfuckers have cited the slightest evidence of her glider having been mildly bumped by the gentlest of puffs but you desperately need something to bolster the legitimacy of the "only change one thing at a time" rule. And Accident Steve needed it to illustrate how fine she'd have been in one of his fake short evening clinics.
...so that when the unexpected characteristics of her new towing system manifest...
- Try "manifested themselves".

- What unexpected characteristics? I guess PIO was unexpected by Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt 'cause otherwise he'd have signaled Tex to stand down. But then if they were unexpected by him he'd have had a hard time training her how to avoid doing them in his fake short clinic in evening air - 'specially since he's trying so hard to have us believe that she was set on her course to PIO disaster by strong thermal turbulence.

Total bullshit analysis built on a foundation of total bullshit. Hard to have a Ponzi scheme collapse when you can't get your pyramid more than an inch or two off the ground.
...she was unable to adjust quickly enough to avoid a serious mishap.
And here I was thinking that PIO was a contributing issue - that she was adjusting TOO quickly and forcefully.
Over the years, I have been encouraged by fellow pilots to dump my preferred system using the three-point bridle (towing from both shoulders and the carabiner)...
But not by Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney and the other top notch professional instructors at Ridgely? I guess their short evening clinics were always booked up months in advance and they didn't consider you a particularly worthy candidate anyway.
...and bicycle grip release...
On your starboard downtube where you CAN'T grip it when you need to...
...and to embrace the "pro-tow" system.
- Well you're a fuckin' US Air Force pilot Colonel, and u$hPa's primary damage control officer, right? If you're not qualified to embrace the "pro-toad" "system" it's hard to say who is. And now that I think of it... I'm really surprised you didn't avail yourself of one of the short pro toad clinics Accident Steve runs in evening air to qualify you for pro towing as safely as you'd be stuffing battens in the setup area and leave you much better qualified to better educate all us stupid muppets regarding what went wrong on Holly's 2005/05/29.

- Who coined the term "pro-tow"?

- With the introduction of the Cosmos trike tug and practical hang glider aerotowing everybody who towed initially was shoulders-only and foot launch. Amateur towing evolved years later and when it did one hundred percent of the pros immediately became amateurs. With the introduction of the Dragonfly it was one hundred percent two point. Then the high performance gliders evolved such that they could fly flatter glides with increased speed and reduced bar pressure and all the cool kids figured that on one point they could stay in position reasonably well and that they'd never have the slightest need for the top half of their pitch control range under any possible circumstances.

- What percentage of the people who fly pro toad are paid to do it? I thought that hang gliding was legally supposed to be recreational/non-commercial.

- When we watch professional snowboarders perform we watch them complete stunning and unbelievably complex maneuvers with high degrees of consistency and success. Can we see anything comparable with respect to pro toad hang glider pilots? A fair number of them I'm sure who go up one point with Novice proficiency ratings.

- In how many other flavors of aviation is one able to progress from the status of incompetent amateur to rock solid professional pilot in the course of a short clinic, if we thought it a possibility, done under supervised conditions in the evening air - by an instructor who couldn't pass a fourth grade English test with a gun to his head?
I have heard all the arguments...
Donnell Hewett - 1980/12

Skyting requires the use of an infallible weak link to place an absolute upper limit to the towline tension in the unlikely event that everything else fails.

Now I've heard the argument that "Weak links always break at the worst possible time, when the glider is climbing hard in a near stall situation," and that "More people have been injured because of a weak link than saved by one."
...concerning the obvious performance advantages (less drag)...
That's not an ARGUMENT. That's a FACT. When there's less shoddy crap in the airflow there's less shoddy crap in the airflow. Same deal for an Infallible Weak Link that keeps you from getting into too much trouble when you're climbing hard in a near stall situation. See above and ask Zack Marzec if you beg to differ.
...and the somewhat less obvious safety advantages (some claim to find it easier to release from tow using the barrel-style release).
Sure. The motherfuckers who are still around to run their stupid mouths 'cause they've never been in an actual emergency lockout situation.
I acknowledge some of these arguments, and remain highly skeptical of others.
Who the fuck cares one way or another what you acknowledge, reject, remain highly skeptical of?

- You don't have a fraction of the experience or qualifications of the stupid motherfuckers who perpetrated this atrocity - and whose voices are conspicuously absent from this fake "discussion" you u$hPa operative dickheads aren't allowing anyone else to participate in.

- This:
Steve Kinsley - 1996/05/09 15:50

Personal opinion. While I don't know the circumstances of Frank's death and I am not an awesome tow type dude, I think tow releases, all of them, stink on ice. Reason: You need two hands to drive a hang glider. You 'specially need two hands if it starts to turn on tow. If you let go to release, the glider can almost instantly assume a radical attitude. We need a release that is held in the mouth. A clothespin. Open your mouth and you're off.
from your close DC neighbor and best hang gliding buddy was the end result of my years of mentoring efforts 38 crow flight miles two and third degrees west of straight north from where Holly would nearly buy it nine years plus a month later. And guess what? Ya still need TWO hands to fly a glider through an emergency situation and ALL mainstream aerotow releases still stink on ice - either, at a minimum, 'cause they're within easy reach or are shit engineered if they're basetube mounted.

And THIS:

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=233
AT releases
Steve Kinsley - 2005/03/11 02:43:09 UTC

Winter boredom and the Oz Report (Robin Strid - 2005/01/09) resulted in my invention of "the squid" AT shoulder release. This is a two ring (or three - haven't decided which is better) where the final loop runs through a grommet and you hold it in your teeth. Want off? Open your mouth. When you are a hundred feet up and presumably out of danger you slide a barrel (the body of the squid) over the loop which crimps it at the grommet and you have a standard barrel release. I can hold on with my teeth all the way and not use the slider/keeper but gotta be sure I have fresh polident.

Tried it at Manquin and down in Florida. Seems to work fine. (Flew with a standard barrel on the other side just in case.) Also gets a lot of laughs. Show it to you.
was posted a wee bit over eleven weeks prior to impact. She could've aborted the disaster in the first second or at any point thereafter until her Pilot In Command made a good decision in the interest of her safety - after which she needed to have her jaw wired back together and shut. And you oddly weren't even aware of that development from your glider trip carpool buddy.
I have, during calm end-of-day conditions, employed this launch method in order to evaluate those arguments - to help decide if I should make the switch.
Why didn't you just:

- ask Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt? He's the acknowledged master of US hang glider surface and aerotowing. Didn't think you could trust him for a straight answer? Shouldn't that lack of trust have been an element of your so-called "accident report"?

- take the short clinic Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt, if we thought it a possibility, done under supervised conditions in the evening air? Then you'd have been as masterful in the Special Skill as everybody else on Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt's approved pro toad list. Thank you so very much for letting us muppets know just how much validity you attached to this aspect of Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt so called "training program". (Knowing full well that it never actually existed in the first place anyway.)
What I found was that the control inputs required when launching using the "pro-tow" were noticeably different from what I was accustomed to when using the three-point system.
- Duh.

- If a system in which the tow force is evenly split between the pilot and the trim point on the keel is three-point then why isn't a "system" in which all of the force is routed through the pilot a two-point?

Catch that, people of varying ages? This is how aerotow people count: Zero - --- - Pro - Three - Many. We see that pattern over and over and over. There's no such thing as "one" point and pro toad is NEVER referred to as two point 'cause all these Three Point douchebags know how stupid they'll sound if they refer to one point as two. And they wanna keep the pilot population as stupid as possible 'cause they know tons of operatives will get sued out of existence if rational thought processes start entering the equations. Same reason there was never any agreement on the breaking strength of the Standard Aerotow Weak Link and post Marzec all references to anything having to do with weak links were put off limits.
I believe...
Oh, DO continue! I so do love to hear what u$hPa operative fake accident report investigators "BELIEVE".
...that these differences are a direct result of the fact the "pro-tow" pulls the glider/pilot from a point...
"A" point?
a (an before a vowel sound) [called the indefinite article]

determiner

1. used when referring to someone or something for the first time in a text or conversation: a man came out of the room | it has been an honor to have you | we need people with a knowledge of languages. Compare with the.
-- used with units of measurement to mean one such unit: a hundred | a quarter of an hour.
-- [with negative] one single; any: I simply haven't a thing to wear.
-- used when mentioning the name of someone not known to the speaker: a Mr. Smith telephoned.
-- someone like (the name specified): you're no better than a Hitler.
- used to indicate membership of a class of people or things: he is a lawyer | this car is a BMW.
- used when expressing rates or ratios; in, to, or for each; per: typing 60 words a minute | cost as much as eight dollars a dozen.

ORIGIN

Middle English: weak form of Old English ān'one'.
Singular. Pretty much a synonym for "one".
...below the CG (center of gravity) of the glider/pilot system.
Oh. The GLIDER/PILOT system. So a system with TWO main elements. Two main elements which are hopefully securely joined to each other via a carabiner before the heavy one runs off a cliff with the light one...

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Two. Pilot...

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...or intended pilot - and glider. Right Joe? Or are you seeing something I'm missing in that second photo?
The three-point configuration...
Three point? Didn't we just establish that there's only two? Maybe you're having problems with your vision. How many fingers am I holding up right now?

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(One. But that's apparently not a word in your vocabulary.)
...more nearly exerts force on the glider/pilot along the CG of the system. This results in a pure translation.
Sure Joe.
The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc. - 2017/03/22
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
02. Pilot Proficiency System
11. Hang Gliding Special Skill Endorsements
-A. Special Skills attainable by Novice and above (H2-H5).
05. Aerotow

-b. Must demonstrate system set up and pre-flight, including a complete discussion of all those factors which are particular to the specific aerotow system used and those factors which are relevant to aerotowing in general.
Aerotowing 101. Hang 2 level Special Skill foundation level theory. EVERYBODY knows that. How could one POSSIBLY be expected to be allowed out of the classroom without the most fundamental brain-dead obvious understanding of how tow forces affect glider control and performance?
...If you pull an object from a point out of alignment with the CG of the system, you will experience a rotation.
Ya think?

http://www.ozreport.com/9.133
Lesson from an aerotow accident report
Davis Straub - 2005/06/23 02:00 UTC

Fourth, she pulled in hard right away as she came off the cart. With no experience towing off her shoulders she didn't have a feel for the bar pressures that she would experience without the V-bridle.
Ya think that's why The Accident Pilot stupidly, fourth, pulled in hard right away as she came off the cart and with no experience towing off her shoulders (pro attachment points) she didn't have a feel for the bar pressures that she would experience without the V-bridle (the one that runs between the pro points of the pilot/glider system)?
Fifth, with her arms straight back she had much less control over the glider.
And that, fifth, with her arms stupidly straight back and only connected by --- point she had much less control over the glider?
Sixth, she began to PIO immediately because she was pulled in so hard.
And that, sixth, she stupidly began to PIO immediately because she was pulled in so hard?
In the case of the "pro-tow", pulling pilot and glider from a point...
"A" point again, Joe? A point being her left shoulder and her right shoulder?
...below the CG, a pilot maintaining their accustomed bar position...
"A" pilot maintaining "THEIR" accustomed bar position. This is most confusing, Joe. Just how many pilots are we talking about here? ---? Pro? Three? Many? If the answer is pro or more might they have different accustomed bar positions?
...flying off the cart (arms rigid) would experience a nose-up rotation force.
Sure about that? Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt's opus magnum, Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney tells us in no uncertain terms...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9230
Departing the launch cart
Jim Rooney - 2007/08/24 12:20:06 UTC

Bad habit #1, not flying the glider... just letting the tug drag you around by the nose, combines with the fact that pro towing REQUIRES the pilot to do something (not let that bar move). So instead of holding the bar where it is, bad habit pilot just lets the tug pull him. This pulls him through the control frame with the same effect as the pilot pulling in... a LOT.

I've seen gliders go negative while still on the cart this way.
The results are never pretty.
...that if the pilot doesn't keep their arms rigid the opposite way - PUSHING FORWARD rather than LOCKED BACK - it pulls them through the control frame with the same effect as them pulling in... a LOT. He's seen gliders go negative while still on the cart that way. The results are never pretty.

(And...

069-25104
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...if Ninja Matt relinquishes that light touch with which he's engaging the pro control tubes to rest his arms the glider will continue rolling and correcting to port cause that's the way his hang strap is pulling on the keel - in the direction he's running. Right Joe?)
Launching using the "pro-tow", I found myself obliged to counteract this effect by pulling in more than I was accustomed to when using my three-point bridle, in order to maintain the same angle of attack through the air.
Yeah?

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22233
Looking for pro-tow release
Zack C - 2011/06/16 03:14:35 UTC

I've never aerotowed pilot-only, but it is my understanding that this configuration pulls the pilot forward significantly, limiting the amount he can pull in further.
Davis Straub - 2011/06/16 05:11:44 UTC

Incorrect understanding.
You sure about that? You may have an incorrect understanding. At least that's the position of the guy who sets the towing safety equipment standards, writes the Risk Mitigation Plans, selects the Safety Committee officials for all the major u$hPa sanctioned comps.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meaneyman/130742003/
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Had I not been prepared for this ahead of time, and had I furthermore tried this for the first time during mid-day conditions, I might have found myself in a lockout situation close to the ground before I was able to figure out what was going on.
Had I not been prepared for this ahead of time...
Are you implying that The Accident Pilot wasn't prepared for this ahead of time?
Joe Gregor - 2006/09

In late August 2002, she learned to aerotow, and had logged approximately 75 aerotows (and over 100 truck tows) by the time of the accident. She currently holds special skills signoffs for AT, FL, PL, ST, and TUR, and has flown a variety of gliders including the Wills Wing Condor, Falcon, Eagle, and Ultrasport, as well as the Moyes Sonic and Litesport 4.
WHY THE FUCK NOT - JOE? She was using the SECONDARY BRIDLE component of the "THREE" point assembly u$hPa's 2004 Hang Gliding Instructor of the Year and 2007 NAA Safety Awards recipient sold her and PRESUMABLY taught her to use under the terms of the AT Special Skill for which he trained her and signed her off. How can she POSSIBLY have not been prepared for this ahead of time other than as a consequence of a grossly negligent "instructor" selling rides and doing whatever the fuck he felt like with respect to whatever SOPs he felt like ignoring and/or violating?
...and had I furthermore tried this for the first time during mid-day conditions...
Yeah, those midday conditions... Virtually certain death for anybody but a thirty year Five with a thousand ATs of a Falcon with an extra safe weak link - one with a really long track record but fuzzed a bit to make the track record even longer. Suck my dick, Joe.
I am sure that, after using this system for a while, I would become comfortable with it.
Yeah. We have a video Zack Marzec posted on 2013/02/01 showing him to be EXTREMELY comfortable with it. Way more comfortable than I'd ever be even on my own system with a competent driver and a front end weak link twenty percent more dangerous than my back end stuff. I guess I'll just never be as cool a dude as most of these guys - until after I've cleared a couple hundred feet anyway.
I might have found myself in a lockout situation close to the ground before I was able to figure out what was going on.
Yeah?
Bill Bryden - 2000/02

Dennis Pagen informed me several years ago about an aerotow lockout that he experienced. One moment he was correcting a bit of alignment with the tug and the next moment he was nearly upside down. He was stunned at the rapidity. I have heard similar stories from two other aerotow pilots.
Like that incompetent pro toad motherfucker? Maybe if we keep on having more of these Mike Haas, Holly Korzilius, Zack Marzec, Jeff Bohl incidents we can keep learning more totally new lessons from all these new totally unprecedented incidents and be able to figure out what's going on in the intervals between lockout situation onset and impact. Keep up the great work, Joe.
Eventually, I might not even recall experiencing any significant difference between the two methods.
Sure...

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03-02421

Mostly just different individual preferences, opinions, correct and incorrect understandings.
The human memory is highly malleable.
I'll say! Have you checked your Version 3 report against Davis Dead-On Straub's Version 2 and Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt's Version 1? Hard to believe they're all from the same state in the same month with the same people involved. Hang glider pilot human memory - not to mention attention span - appears to be well south of what you get with four month old Golden Retriever puppies.
For this reason if for no other, we should all exhibit caution when accepting advice from our fellow pilots.
But we're all good to go with the top notch instructors like Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt who uses our fellow pilots to relay his advice to launching products of his top notch aerotowing training program. That way when --- or pro of us ends up in intensive care or a body bag fifteen or twenty minutes after the midday conditions get the better of us - mostly due to our failures to quickly and fully recognize and appreciate the hazards of the shituations we're in - the buck can always be passed to an unidentified designated fellow pilot who will know enough to keep his mouth shut if he envisions himself in some kind of future hang gliding career. (And ditto for all the other...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
Paul Tjaden - 2013/02/07 23:47:58 UTC

Eye witnesses said the glider tumbled twice and then struck the ground with the base tube low. Due to the extremely low altitude, there was no time for the pilot to deploy his reserve parachute.
...eyewitnesses.)
Beyond these facts anything else would be pure speculation. I have personally had numerous weak link breaks on tow, both low and high, after hitting turbulence and have never felt in danger of a tumble. I have witnessed countless others have weak link breaks with no serious problems. We train aero tow pilots how to handle this situation and I am certain that Zach had also encountered this situation many times before and knew how to react properly. Apparently, Zach simply hit strong low level turbulence, probably a dust devil that could not be seen due to the lack of dust in Florida, the nose went too high and he tumbled at a very low altitude.

Strong dust devils in Florida definitely do exist even though they are rare. My wife had a near miss when she encountered a severe dusty a couple years ago and I almost lost a brand new $18,000 ATOS VX when it was torn from its tie down and thrown upside down.

I wish I could shed more light on this accident but I am afraid this is all we know and probably will know. Zach was a great guy with an incredible outlook and zest for life. He will be sorely missed.
What may seem easy, obvious, and straightforward to those who have seen-it/done-it, may represent a significant challenge to the new practitioner.
Or...

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...an old pro toad with experience coming outta his ass who encounters some ACTUAL issues related midday conditions - the only ones people interested in stuff better than...
Holly Korzilius - 2006/09

It was May, and my friend and I spent the day at the local flight park. I did not fly that day. Although conditions were safe to fly in, conditions did not look good for staying up.
...twelve minute sleds bother setting up for.
Those pilots holding instructor ratings have received the extensive training and experience required to safely and effectively relate their advice to those learning new techniques for the first time.
Well said...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/28 01:17:55 UTC

Well said Billo
I'm a bit sick of all the armchair experts telling me how my friend died.
...Joe. Neither Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney, who made the news crashing both a hang and para gliding tandem thrill rider, nor Steve...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17404
Aerotow barrel release - straight or curved pin?
Jim Rooney - 2010/05/31 01:53:13 UTC

BTW, Steve Wendt is exceptionally knowledgeable. Hell, he's the one that signed off my instructor rating.
...Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt, who got one of his AT products two thirds killed in the incident under discussion and had one of his foot launch products run off a cliff without his glider four months and three days later, could've said it any better.
Pilots who contemplate attempting a new maneuver, flying with a new type of wing or harness, or trying out a new type of flight-critical system (such as a new-style tow release) are encouraged to seek out qualified instruction if they wish to preserve their safety margin while doing so.
And thank you so very much by illustrating with this five ton load of pseudo-intellectual total shit how totally nonexistent qualified instruction is anywhere on this continent.
Fly high and safe.
- Eat shit and die.

- Yeah Joe. With all the low-life scumbags and damage control operatives like Accident Steve, Davis, and you running everything, high is about the only place we have a reasonable chance of flying safe. Within two hundred feet of the hard stuff however... Total dice roll.
...
Here's the record of my one point aerotows:
Flight - Date - Glider - Launch - Tug - Driver - Airport
---
0851 - 1986/08/01 - UP Comet 165 - foot - Cosmos trike / La Mouette Azur 19 wing - Jon Leak - Robinson Private Airport, Benedict MD
1624 - 1994/09/04 - WW HPAT 158 - foot - Mountaineer trike / 65 HP Rotax - 65 HP Rotax - Willie Hill - Pike County Airport, Waverly OH
1807 - 2003/09/14 - WW UltraSport 2 160 - dolly - 914 Dragonfly - Adam Elchin - Ridgely MD
1813 - 2004/09/20 - WW U2 160 - Flightstar - dolly - Tex Forrest - Manquin VA
1859 - 2007/05/14 - WW HPAT 158 - dolly - 914 Dragonfly - --- - Ridgely MD
0851 was my first ever AT. Foot launch, one point, overly fast first generation tug, first modern double surface glider with HUGE pitch pressure, couldn't kick into the boot of my Roberson cocoon harness, was being pulled up by my armpits, coming down with the flu, had armpit pain flashes for days afterwards was looking almost straight down at the trike when I made the easy reach to my three-string lanyard. It was a MISERABLE experience but there was never the slightest danger of a crash. Compare/Contrast with 2005/05/29 Holly Korzilius at a hugely established AT operation with a modern tug.

And let's take a look at this two pointer:
1806 - 2003/07/26 - WW HPAT 158 - dolly - Flightstar - Les Taff - Ridgely MD
the season prior to my first and last visit to and AT at Manquin - 'cause it was my previous and only other ride up behind a Flightstar.

1813 / 2004/09/20 - a bit over eight months before Holly. I make the long haul to Manquin because I STUPIDLY think a douchebag like Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt would have the slightest interest in the two point, internally routed / built-in AT release system I'd spent years developing. Rob Kells is down there demoing Wills Wing gliders.

Got a shot at the new U2 160 (not something in my repertoire). Rob had it rigged with a Quallaby two point piece o' crap - spinnaker shackle, cable, bicycle release lever securely velcroed to the starboard control tube within very easy reach. I'd never flown with shoddy garbage like that before in my life and I wasn't about to start on a lovely clean glider like that so I uninstalled it, set it aside, and hooked up with my then secondary twin barrels assembly.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8313526097/
Image

Nobody there knew anything about my then three flight long pro toad history, asked me if I'd had any pro toad experience, or had successfully completed a short pro toad clinic, if we thought it a possibility, done under supervised conditions in the evening air. And Yours Truly had never had the slightest benefit of any other formal or informal instruction or coaching from Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt or his wonderful Blue Sky training program.

Holly should've been head and shoulders above anything T** at K*** S****** ever was or could hope to be...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17404
Aerotow barrel release - straight or curved pin?
Jim Rooney - 2010/05/31 01:53:13 UTC

BTW, Steve Wendt is exceptionally knowledgeable. Hell, he's the one that signed off my instructor rating.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 04:55:25 UTC

Don't even get me started on Tad. That obnoxious blow hard has gotten himself banned from every flying site that he used to visit... he doesn't fly anymore... because he has no where to fly. His theories were annoying at best and downright dangerous most of the time. Good riddance.
...according to popular wisdom.

Jump to top:
http://www.kitestrings.org/post10976.html#p10976
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Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
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Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.ozreport.com/9.133
Lesson from an aerotow accident report
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/hollyaccidentreport.jpg
Image

USHGA Accident Report Summary
Pilot: Holly Korzilius
Reporter: Steve Wendt, USHGA Instructor # 19528
Date : 5/29/05

Holly immediately had control problems right off the dolly and completed 3 oscilations before it took her 90 degrees from the tow vehicle upon when the tug pilot hit the release and Holly continued turning away from the tow in a fairly violent exchange of force .
WHAT THE FUCK does that mean?

Let's assume that she oscillated left-right-left 'cause:
- left is generally what we're supposed to start out with
- we:
-- don't have any better reporting on this two thirds fatal
-- have a fifty/fifty chance of being right
- it doesn't matter for the purpose of the exercise

She COMPLETES three "oscilations". Left, right, left - presumably, virtually certainly, steadily increasing in amplitude.

Then "IT", whatever the fuck THAT is, takes her 90 degrees from the tow vehicle, whatever the fuck THAT means.

Which way?

- Left? She completed Swing 3 then hung out standing on her right ear for while waiting for IT to decide what to do with her?

- Right? That's another swing which would've had to have been completed before things started going rapidly, irretrievably, and brutally south.

Either way, this drivel makes no sense whatsoever.

Holly, the injured pilot who'd made ALL the poor decisions that precipitated all those less than stellar results, including having had her brain significantly mushed, on the other hand writes perfectly articulately about all the relevant recollections that weren't wiped by the devastating, equipment totaling, historic, near fatal impact.

This is the most critically important - and quite possibly the only - document that Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt has produced in his life and he knows that life as he knew it may well be riding on it. I have no doubt that individuals way less culpable for way less in the way of physical damages to warm blooded victims have been rewarded with felony convictions. And I also have no doubt that I could walk any competent prosecutor through the background issues needed to score.

And u$hPa bloody well knows that this could be the one to totally collapse their Ponzi scheme a decade and a half ahead of projections.

And this is the BEST he can do? Can't:
- write coherently
- spell
- spell the same word consistently right or wrong
- conjugate irregular verbs *
- run a spellcheck
- use the space key properly and consistently
- disguise his motivation to paint his highly advanced, skilled, experienced Three level student product as a total moron who should've never been allowed within a hundred yards of an Eaglet trainer on a shallow sand dune in light morning air
- find any literate sympathetic individual in the hang gliding community to proofread it and fix it up
- WAIT another 24 hours to snail mail it to u$hPa to make sure they understand what a competent, top notch, professional, responsible instructor and flight park operator he is

* When unsure of something Holly usually seeked advice from the exceptionally knowledgeable flight park operator and former high school teacher and he usually teached her the relevant underlying theory and aeronautical principles to bring her up to speed such that she'd be better qualified to act independently.

And this is THE BEST he's able to do with all the time he cares to take and virtually unlimited resources on which to draw if he feels he needs them before sealing the envelope?

And he's a FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR in a flavor of aviation we can all agree has total shit in the way of safety margin relative to conventional aircraft in a lot of routine situations - aerotow launching in soaring conditions, even with a non-shit driver and tug on the front end and non-shit equipment on the back end, being a major biggie. He's the guy who can train a Zack Marzec or Jeff Bohl how to fly pro toad through their shituations at Quest and come out smelling like roses. And exceptionally knowledgeable. Hell, he's the one who signed Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney's instructor rating.

He can't communicate well enough to make any sense and/or know how to obfuscate proof of his negligence and incompetence in the most critical communication of his life? Or even have the slightest clue as to when to shut the fuck up and take the Fifth? But he CAN communicate aeronautical theory and valuable feedback and critiques to student pilots at all levels and through all relevant disciplines?
Joe Gregor - 2006/09

Our accident pilot did indeed make a single change, after seeking the advice of fellow pilots whose opinions she respected...
- No fuckin' shit, Joe. Given that the alternative would've have been to consult with a semiliterate total moron, for whom she had no respect whatsoever, incapable of communicating anything about actual aeronautical theory or what she'd be up against pro toad. Ya go with the least crappy option available.

- Which is a rather thinly veiled way of saying she had total shit respect for the competence and opinions of her certified and exceptionally knowledgeable flight instructor. Which is why, if you read Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt's statement carefully, he states that she only USUALLY seeked advice from him when unsure of something. And:

-- The implication is that other times when she was unsure of something, presumably mission critical, she seeked advice from other sources and/or launched anyway armed only with her best guess.

-- How the fuck would he know what she USUALLY did or didn't do when unsure of something? "OFTEN" seeked his advice could've been an honest representation.

-- Why the fuck should a pilot with her ratings, qualifications, experience level be unsure about anything as major as the issue of pilot-only versus two point bridle connection?

-- Her Plan A is to fly two point using at total piece o' shit easily reachable Quallaby spinnaker shackle "system" - like the one that just killed Robin Strid behind its "designer", Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey at the Worlds in Hay well shy of six months prior. Her Plan B is to fly pro toad in lethal midday conditions using her emergency/backup system consisting of a piece o' crap easily reachable bent pin barrel release and a piece o' crap three foot long shoulder-to-shoulder bridle with no weak link anywhere between herself and the tug. I'd be totally FASCINATED to know some of the issues about which she hadn't previously been crystal clear and the exceptionally knowledgeable explanations she was provided to get her properly straightened out.

One CANNOT be operating at literacy levels of Joe and Holly - an Air Force Colonel pilot and a Marine Captain (with a Julliard product significant other) respectively and NOT know what they're dealing with in a Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt. And it's really hard to believe that Holly would've been:
- unaware of the Version 1 and 2 accounts by Steve and Davis respectfully
- pleased as punch with their:
-- versions of the facts
-- portrayal of her as an irresponsible, clueless, stupid bitch with no one to blame for all that happened but herself
- thinking highly of Blue Sky and Flight Park Mafia Primary Operative Davis Dead-On Straub in the wake of what she'd experienced and lost

Total references to Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt - not named, identified - in Holly's published account:
My hang gliding instructor saw my 'flight' from a distance.
...
That evening a party was thrown at the flight park in recognition of my instructor's selection as the USHGA Hang Gliding Instructor of the Year.
...
I did not discuss my intent to tow off the shoulders with either of the hang gliding instructors present prior to launching.
Not exactly bubbling with compliments and praise and tripping all over herself apologizing for her totally irresponsible behavior which precipitated so many diversions, distractions, problems for Steve and the Blue Sky flying community, is she?

Side note...

Kite Strings has four non English-as-a-first-language members who've posted at least once. In descending order of activity: French, Norwegian, Russian, German. Jan and Andreas it's hard to tell. Antoine and Aleksey have DEFINITE French and Russian accents respectively but their writing is still perfectly clear. There's never the slightest problem understanding what they're communicating. (And infinitely better than Yours Truly can do in any non first language.)

I wonder what Steve's been doing all these decades in order to max out all his reserve cranial capacity. Nothing whatsoever with anything having anything to do with hang gliding fer sure.

Another example of the sterling communications skills of u$hPa's...
Holly Korzilius - 2006/09

That evening a party was thrown at the flight park in recognition of my instructor's selection as the USHGA Hang Gliding Instructor of the Year.
...2004 Hang Gliding Instructor of the Year award recipient. 125 days after Holly's impact at Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt's little Richmond area kingdom...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1149
Team Challenge: Daily Update Thread
Holly Korzilius - 2005/10/01 18:19:55 UTC

Incident at 2005 Team Challenge

I don't have many details at this point, but I just got a call from Scott Wilkinson. Bill Priday launched from Whitwell without hooking in. Scott indicated there was about a hundred foot drop off from launch. Bill's status is unknown at this time. Please pray for him!

I will provide updates as I get them from Scott.
Holly Korzilius - 2005/10/01 18:38:40 UTC

Status Update

Scott just informed me that Bill didn't make it.
And so much for prayer as an effective communications strategy in the field of hang gliding safety.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1166
Thoughts on responsibility...
Scott Wilkinson - 2005/10/05 14:10:56 UTC

We visited Steve Wendt yesterday, who was visibly choked up over Bill's death. For Steve, it all comes down to one thing: you've got to hook in. Period.
And if only Bill had known that BEFORE running off the cliff without the Sport 2 Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt had qualified him to fly and sold him.

Fast forward another 143 days from Whitwell to another Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17404
Aerotow barrel release - straight or curved pin?
Jim Rooney - 2010/05/31 01:53:13 UTC

BTW, Steve Wendt is exceptionally knowledgeable. Hell, he's the one that signed off my instructor rating.
...product whom he had OBVIOUSLY by that time informed him that:
- You've got to hook in. Period.
- You've got teach your tandem students that you've got to hook in. Period.
The Press - 2006/03/15

The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) is urgently pushing for new hang-gliding industry standards after learning a hang-gliding pilot who suffered serious injuries in a crash three weeks ago had not clipped himself on to the glider.

Extreme Air tandem gliding pilot James (Jim) Rooney safely clipped his passenger into the glider before departing from the Coronet Peak launch site, near Queenstown, CAA sports and recreation manager Rex Kenny said yesterday.

However, he took off without attaching himself.

In a video, he was seen to hold on to the glider for about fifty meters before hitting power lines.

Rooney and the passenger fell about fifteen meters to the ground.
Compare/Contrast with:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31781
Another hang check lesson
Alan Deikman - 2014/09/23 19:47:06 UTC

Amazing how when this topic comes up every time you see people argue the same arguments over and over again. It has been a classic (although niche) endless Internet flame topic.

I suspect that some of the parties that have posted in threads like these before are refraining now since they have learned that it is nearly (completely?) impossible to change people's minds on the topic.

For my part I will just refer you to the classic Tad Eareckson essay which I call "the gun is always loaded" which is a bit overworked but probably all you will ever need to read regarding FTHI. A lot of people will find it gores their particular sacred Ox, but I have never seen anyone point out a flaw in his logic.
If that strategy were legitimate then why wasn't it endorsed? And if all it does is give one a false sense of security - as we know to be the case thanks to another highly experienced and respected u$hPa certified instructor - then tell my why it wasn't then and has never been condemned in Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt instructional program and on his website?

Come to think of it... "You've got to hook in. Period." isn't on his website and doesn't seem to have been echoed by any of his scores of outstanding products - foremost amongst them...

08-19
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5277/30076449505_1f6ed2f804_o.png
Image

...Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney - either. Also isn't included in the u$hPa Pilot Proficiency SOPs. Just the extremely repetitious:
With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that the pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.
How very odd.
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Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Lest we need a reminder about this other example of the outstanding quality of Blue Sky towing instruction and operations...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilD-0Mw_9qg


Video's dated 2010/09/03 - a bit over five and a quarter years post Holly.

Tow vehicle pilot Blue Sky Steve enters the cockpit pointing in the opposite direction (south, away from the facilities), wind obviously fairly howling from the left...

02-0112
Image

T2 glider. No dedicated observer - for whatever that's worth. Avolare IMMEDIATELY rolls the glider pretty hard left - to fight that nasty crosswind and stay in position behind the truck à la John Woiwode's last ride, 2005/07/07, less than six weeks post Holly).

06-2227
Image

STAYS substantially left rolled the entire tow to stay in proper position...

11-2504
Image

...or a bit upwind of the truck...

13-2627
Image

What could possibly be wrong with that? Money in the fuckin' bank. Just like keeping out in front of the ridge in strong straight-in winds. (I haven't the SLIGHTEST DOUBT that that's the mindset of these dickheads who are so terminally clueless about what's going on with towing.)

Then ALMOST a lockout. (It's only a lockout if you hit the ground.) For no fathomable reason. (Probably an invisible dust devil.)

18-3003
Image

And he makes the easy reach...

20-3012
Image

...to his top quality Blue Sky easily reachable release. So absolutely no reason for Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt to have slowed down or dumped tension. Besides...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=18868
Almost lockout

He had a perfectly good weak link which would've blown before he could've gotten into too much trouble. (The more precise the breaking strength of your tournament fishing line the better it is at sensing the seriousness of a situation - even when it's dealing with a Blue Sky product like Holly who's working on riding things out 'cause she's rather oblivious to the seriousness of what's going and doesn't wanna hafta start over anyway.)
Avolare - 2010/09/03 22:08:52 UTC

Thanks for the kind words Mooncricket. This is the first time I have had a turn that I couldn't quickly correct for in many years (at least 17).
Talking with Steve after the flight, I assumed I had crossed controlled. The video has been very helpful. Case in point, which hand to take off the bar while correcting aggressively, and I should pull in to correct a turn under tow too. I'm thinking that subconsciously, I knew which hand had less pressure, therefore which hand to use. But, I really can't tell you that was my thought process.
Pulling in more for the first 300' or so would have been better, and probably prevented the whole situation.
Go pro has also shown me an intermittent problem with my transition to upright on final.
Still a student pilot....always learning.
Yeah Avolare. You probably cross controlled. You, Steve, Yours Truly are all in agreement. Absolutely NOTHING to do with crabbing a hundred yards upwind of where the glider was trying to position itself - against the better judgment of Yours, Steve's, Ryan Instant-Hands-Free-Release Voight's, Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney's, Yours Truly's. Un fucking believable.
Helen McKerral - 2010/09/06 03:38:29 UTC

Someone is missing from this thread... Image Image Image
Then another half dozen years before a friendly force first raises the issue of the crosswind.
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Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
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Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17404
Aerotow barrel release - straight or curved pin?
Jim Rooney - 2010/05/31 01:53:13 UTC

BTW, Steve Wendt is exceptionally knowledgeable. Hell, he's the one that signed off my instructor rating.
EXCEPTIONALLY knowledgeable. Ten other ICP Administrators thought that I was an incompetent semiliterate power hungry little shit who wanted and would use my certification only as another tool for climbing the u$hPa power structure ladder...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2809
hook-in failures
Jim Rooney - 2007/11/03 22:29:39 UTC

Yeah ya sarcastic prick... I meet up with Rob at various hang gliding functions throughout the year (along with plenty other "big names"). I'd say I'm pretty up on the ins and outs of the hang gliding world. Quit posing just cuz you pester someone. Namedropping went out in the 80s.
...and...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links
Jim Rooney - 2007/07/22 20:16:36 UTC

And as for your cracks about me being a tug pilot (and somehow less qualified to comment on hg stuff)... HAHAHA I'm a freakin hg instructor. I towed more yesterday than you've towed all year. I use this crap on a daily basis. If anyone here's less qualified to comment... It's YOU.
...enlisting support of the mainstream dregs to isolate and silence the individuals who see me as an incompetent semiliterate power hungry little shit.

But Steve was so exceptionally knowledgeable that he was able to see what no other u$hPa operative had the ability to. He alone was able to recognize my genius and gifts and sign my ticket so's I could immediately begin rescuing the sport from its decades of darkness and start getting it on course. First and foremost mission being of course...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 21:40:25 UTC

Tommy.
First, I sent Steve a bunch of info offline. Hopefully it clears things up a bit for him.
Unfortunately, he's stumbled onto some of Tad's old rantings and got suckered in. So most of this was just the same old story of debunking Tad's lunacy... again .

See, the thing is... "we", the people that work at and run aerotow parks, have a long track record.
This stuff isn't new, and has been slowly refined over decades.
We have done quite literally hundreds of thousands of tows.
We know what we're doing.

Sure "there's always room for improvement", but you have to realize the depth of experience you're dealing with here.
There isn't going to be some "oh gee, why didn't I think of that?" moment. The obvious answers have already been explored... at length.

Anyway...
Weaklink material... exactly what Davis said.

It's no mystery.
It's only a mystery why people choose to reinvent the wheel when we've got a proven system that works.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/13 19:09:33 UTC

It was already worked out by the time I arrived.
The reason it sticks?
Trail and error.
...to lead the charge to make much longer track records of stuff that was worked out by the time I arrived and was sticking through trail and error than lesser individuals were capable of envisioning.

A bit convoluted, dontchya think? Steve Wendt is exceptionally knowledgeable - and the best/only supporting evidence you (are able to) provide is that he punched your Basic Instructor ticket. And a Basic Instructor ticket is something in which you take pride. And the only reason one is proud of ANY u$hPa level of rating or certification is as a result of successfully having pulled wool over the eyes of enough of the right people.

I got my Instructor ticket punched a couple times while you were still in diapers - first by Mike Robertson, next by Dennis Pagen. I wasn't the slightest bit proud of either of those appointments - despite the fact that I was in large part falling for their self-serving scams and con games back then. I'd become a pretty competent flyer - largely through questioning, ignoring, discounting, rejecting the kinda total crap upon which your lot feeds and thrives - and I could communicate a lot of the concepts required to help students become competent pilots. I never got a merit badge from u$hPa for which I wasn't way over qualified and due.

Stuff that I'm proud of...
Bob Kuczewski - 2017/08/06 04:36:50 UTC
Luis Felipe Amunategui wrote:We need to consider getting an injunction against this guy communicating with the FAA on this subject.
Lisa Tate wrote:I forwarded the letter to Tim Herr yesterday asking about this.
Rich Hass wrote:Perhaps a strongly worded letter from Tim will do the trick. We can't force Tad to work within the USHPA framework but we can make it unpleasant and expensive for him if he chooses to makes derogatory and false statements about USHPA to the FAA he can't back up.

If I understand the previous comments, his sending USHPA a draft letter is an indication of willingness to engage in some dialogue before going to the FAA.

Good luck with this guy!
The pilot who I asked about towing was John Heiney and he definately knows towing.
Getting blacklisted out of the sport by all you incompetent sleazy shits and my equipment designs which you incompetent sleazy shits bend over backwards to keep out of circulation and piss all over at all opportunities. And what I'm most ashamed of is biting my tongue as often and long as I did and not getting blacklisted out of the sport years before.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3107
I have a tandem rating!!!
Lauren Tjaden - 2008/03/23 22:20:15 UTC

When Jim got me locked out to the right, I couldn't keep the pitch of the glider with one hand for more than a second (the pressure was a zillion pounds, more or less), but the F'ing release slid around when I tried to hit it. The barrel release wouldn't work because we had too much pressure on it.
Anyhow, the tandem can indeed perform big wingovers, as I demonstrated when I finally got separated from the tug.
Look at all those exclamation points!!! How would you feel about stowing your laptop case under the seat in front of you and making sure your seat back was fully upright and your seatbelt was securely fastened and hearing over the PA, "Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Guess what... I have a commercial pilot's license!!!"?

My position is that there's very little in this sport about which it's possible to be exceptionally knowledgeable - save for the history and dynamics of the decades long mega clusterfuck that's currently rapidly plunging it down the extinction toilet. The concepts are pretty fucking simple and Wilbur and Orville had them totally nailed by the end of 1903 - way better than hang gliding at large ever has or ever will. But if this farce of yours concerning Steve and you had any legitimacy a legitimate comment would read something along the lines of:
Steve Wendt is a top notch instructor and mentor. He presented and walked me through the concepts more clearly, quickly, effectively than anyone else with whom I've had such dealings. And I know of no one in the sport who likely matches him. And I'm greatly indebted to him for making me a better and more effective instructor than I ever would've been able to manage on my own.
But even that scenario logically collapses. Hang gliding is about as far from rocket science as it's possible to get in flight disciplines, all Turkey Vultures play this game better than any of us could ever hope to, if there were the necessary critical mass of competent instruction every Tom, Dick, and Harry would be as exceptionally knowledgeable as anyone else. Meaning there'd be no such thing as exceptional knowledge.

What we have instead with your Ponzi scheme model is:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/31 09:25:57 UTC

Oh how many times I have to hear this stuff.
I've had these exact same arguments for years and years and years.
Nothing about them changes except the new faces spouting them.

It's the same as arguing with the rookie suffering from intermediate syndrome.
They've already made up their mind and only hear that which supports their opinion.

`
Only later, when we're visiting them in the hospital can they begin to hear what we've told them all along.

Nobody's talking about 130lb weaklinks? (oh please)
Many reasons.
Couple of 'em for ya... they're manufactured, cheap and identifiable.

See, you don't get to hook up to my plane with whatever you please. Not only am I on the other end of that rope... and you have zero say in my safety margins... I have no desire what so ever to have a pilot smashing himself into the earth on my watch. So yeah, if you show up with some non-standard gear, I won't be towing you. Love it or leave it. I don't care.

So please, find me something... that you didn't make... that I can go out and buy from a store... that's rated and quality controlled... that fits your desire for a "non one size fits all" model, and *maybe* we can talk.
But you see... I'm the guy you've got to convince.
(or whoever your tug pilot may be... but we all tend to have a similar opinion about this)

You've not heard about strong-link incidents.
Uh, yeah... cuz we don't let you use them.

"light" weaklink issues?
"I had to land"... boo hoo.
Oh, I thought of an other one... I smashed into the earth after my weaklink let go cuz I fly as badly as I tow, and I'm only still here cuz my weaklink didn't let me pile in harder.

Your anecdotal opinion is supposed to sway me?
You forget, every tow flight you take requires a tug pilot... we see EVERY tow.
We know who the rockstars are and who the muppets are.
Do you have any idea how few of us there are?
You think we don't talk?
I'll take our opinion over yours any day of the week.

Ok, I'm tired of this.
I'm not really sure who you're trying to convince.
Again, I don't care to argue this stuff.
I'll answer actual questions if you're keen to actually hear the answers, but arguing with me? Really? Have fun with that.

Gimme a call when you think of something that we haven't already been through years ago... cuz to date, you have yet to come up with anything new. Well, maybe it's new to you I guess. It's old as dirt to me though.
We've got the best opinions 'cause we do this all the time. And I'm one of the most keenly intellectual instructors on the planet 'cause I'm one of the elite who knows who all the rockstars, the guys capable of figuring shit out on their own, and muppets, the guys incapable of being instructed yet hold u$hPa ratings and qualifications at all levels, are.

08-19
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5277/30076449505_1f6ed2f804_o.png
Image

Guess at least one of your opinions didn't hold up so well. Do let us know when we can start holding our breaths in anticipation of finding out which so's we can hope to avoid similar unavoidable pitfalls.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/31 09:25:57 UTC

Oh how many times I have to hear this stuff.
I've had these exact same arguments for years and years and years.
Nothing about them changes except the new faces spouting them.

It's the same as arguing with the rookie suffering from intermediate syndrome.
They've already made up their mind and only hear that which supports their opinion.

Only later, when we're visiting them in the hospital can they begin to hear what we've told them all along.
So was there anybody visiting you in the hospital helping you begin to hear what they were telling you all along? Or did you discover a totally new and unforeseeable technique for crashing a tandem paraglider that you've been sitting on for the better part of twenty months 'cause you're trying to get it patented and named after you so's you can score a few bucks twenty years from now when another guy stumbles into a rerun?

And on the issue of paragliders...

Steve Wendt took over from the previous egomaniacal total asshole - Mark Airey - as hang gliding manager sometime in 1983 I'm pretty sure. Was a fixture for some years until owner John Harris told him he was gonna expand his pilot/instructor repertoire to include paragliders - at which point Steve told John to go fuck himself and walked.

Fast forward to now and go to:

http://blueskyhg.com
BlueSky Virginia Hang Gliding

Paragliders and paragliding lessons all over the place. No mention of Paragliding safety issues (or Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt's most renowned certified instructor product) but for hang:
How dangerous is hang gliding?

Good question. I believe any form of flight has its dangers, but good judgement can prevent most incidents. Most schools have excellent safety records, or they would not be in business. There are thrill seekers who push the limits and increase their risk while flying. Good judgement and managing risk should be developed in a quality instructional program. Ultimately your decisions control your safety.
So I guess we can only conclude that Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney was a thrill seeker who used poor judgement as he seeked thrills at low quality instructional programs - once hang and another para. And that both his chick "students" made poor decisions regarding their safety in going up with a guy who, hell, got his instructor rating signed by Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt.
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Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
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Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://blueskyhg.com/faqs.aspx?
BlueSky Virginia Hang Gliding
Frequently Asked Questions

How dangerous is hang gliding?

Good question. I believe any form of flight has its dangers, but good judgement can prevent most incidents. Most schools have excellent safety records, or they would not be in business. There are thrill seekers who push the limits and increase their risk while flying. Good judgement and managing risk should be developed in a quality instructional program. Ultimately your decisions control your safety.
Good question.
Of course it was! You just asked it of yourself pretending to be one of the scores of prospective student types frequently asking these questions. How could it possibly be anything but?

Kite Strings? We don't have any "FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS" here - 'cause if we'd started seeing a trend we'd have addressed the question well before it ever had a chance to get frequently asked. We state who we are and what we're about and present information such that any interested individual should be able to find his way to it fairly easily. Can't really fathom why anybody would pursue a site built, organized, operated otherwise.
I believe any form of flight has its dangers...
Whoa! Let me write that down. Previously I was pretty convinced that there had to be at least a few flavors that were entirely risk free. But given that you BELIEVE otherwise I'll hafta investigate things a bit more thoroughly. Gonna put passenger jets on priority 'cause in another fifteen days I'm thinking about doing BWI to Seattle to Anchorage. And if I find that there are any associated risks I'll just stay local and watch some more TV at home. And whoever heard of anything bad happening to anyone just watching TV at home.
...but good judgement can prevent most incidents.
- How 'bout the ones in which good judgement CAN'T prevent most incidents? Wanna tell us about some of those?

Would Ken Muscio fall into that category?

Zack Marzec?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
William Olive - 2013/02/27 20:55:06 UTC

Like the rest of us, you have no idea what really happened on that tow.

We probably never will know.
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/28 01:17:55 UTC

Well said Billo
I'm a bit sick of all the armchair experts telling me how my friend died.

Ah but hg'ers get so uppity when you tell them not to speculate.
We'll probably never have the slightest viable idea of any relevant detail that happened on that tow but we can certainly rule out any judgement issues as everything he did and used was supported by an extremely long track records. And those track records have gotten over five years longer since.

How 'bout eleven year old tandem hang gliding student Arys Moorhead? Show me where he made the slightest error of judgement anywhere in the course of his hang gliding career.

- Sounds to me like bad judgement would be a good bet for covering the few incidents that can't be prevented by good judgement. Maybe doing a preflight sidewire stomp test on a wire that looks perfectly OK but isn't despite the extremely high risk of grinding it into a sharp rock. Any thoughts?
Most schools have excellent safety records, or they would not be in business.
- How 'bout the few schools that DON'T have excellent safety records yet remain in business? Aren't those the ones we most need to know about? "The inspectors carefully inspected the upcoming two hundred miles of track and only found ONE rail in need of replacement. Let's get this train moving!" Who are they, what are their secrets for maintaining shit safety records while staying in business? Actually sounds to me like they well may be the smartest guys in the room.

- What the hell. I just checked your website and couldn't find a single reference to:

-- Greg DeWolf breaking his arm trying to run out a wheel-less tandem stunt landing

-- Holly Korzilius two thirds killing herself on an aerotow lockout she was permitted to execute after being observed executing a whole shitload of poor decisions

-- Bill Priday running off Whitwell without his Sport 2 because you'd signed off his Three without teaching him that "You've got to hook in. Period."

-- Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney running off of Coronet Peak without his tandem glider and student because, hell, you'd signed his instructor rating without teaching him that "You've got to hook in. Period."

-- Avolare, who locked out behind you on a crosswind truck tow because he was cross controlling - throwing in hard left input when he needed to be hard resisting to the right.

So you must have a really excellent safety record. Pretty fuckin' obvious any since you wouldn't be in business if you didn't.

- In fact there are ZERO schools which have the slightest blemishes on their records - as can be verified by examining their websites and u$hPa incident reports. So why do you just say "MOST"? Who are the ones you know about but aren't telling us about? Lockout Mountain Flight Park, Quest Air, Mission Soaring Centers would be obvious no-brainers.
There are thrill seekers who push the limits and increase their risk while flying.
- No shit. Who'da thunk.

- Name some. Do they constitute a significant enough percentage of hang gliding statistics to be worth talking about?

- This:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22176
Paragliding Collapses
Jim Rooney - 2011/06/12 13:57:58 UTC

Most common HG injury... spiral fracture of the humerus.
is largely/mostly a consequence of thrill seeking. Right...
Gil Dodgen - 1995/01

All of this reminds me of a comment Mike Meier made when he was learning to fly sailplanes. He mentioned how easy it was to land a sailplane (with spoilers for glide-path control and wheels), and then said, "If other aircraft were as difficult to land as hang gliders no one would fly them."
...Steve?

- I guess all those people frequently asking the question:
How dangerous is hang gliding?
are really concerned that they're gonna become thrill seekers who push the limits and increase their risk while flying. So it's a really good thing you get them straightened out right away on the thrill seeking and say nothing about the untold thousands who've broken arms and necks working on perfecting their flare timing because they seeked to advance to u$hPa One, Two, Three, and Four ratings.

- Wouldn't this be a really good opportunity to make sure that they know that "You've got to hook in. Period."? Get that well established BEFORE they run off the cliff rather than AFTER? Nah, that's totally nuts. Forget I mentioned it. And besides, the most effective hook-in checks ever devised are the ones executed in the half second after people clear the ramp.

10-05124
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No false sense of security, to questionable feedback. Dead certainty. And nothing like pure terror to get one...

Image

...acutely focused on the relevant issue.
Good judgement and managing risk should be developed in a quality instructional program.
Any thoughts on where we might go to get one? 'Cause after reading this absolute total drivel of yours all I know at this point is where NOT to take any training.
Ultimately your decisions control your safety.
'Cause when you end up eating it we certainly don't want any extra scrutiny falling back on the school or instructor. That's why u$hPa deletes all pilot record information from their database within three milliseconds of identifying a new fatal.
I want to try it, so how do I get started?
Don't. Hang gliding isn't for and has no place for assholes who want to TRY it. It's for people who KNOW they want to DO it. HAVE known they've wanted to DO it since shortly after birth. I have zero interest in wasting my time on anyone else. If you wanna TRY it then take a tandem thrill ride, cross it off your bucket list, then go somewhere else for a zip line or bungee jump.
Call Blue Sky for your first lesson at 804-241-4324.
Sure. Just make a statement on your website affirming that neither Blue Sky nor any of its products has ever experienced any relevant incident or mishap significant enough to be worthy of any discussion. That way we'll know that you're one of the most schools that have excellent safety records and are thus still in business and not one of the few schools that have total shit safety records and have been able to remain in business anyway.

Me? I tend to have hundreds of times more respect for an instructor who tells me about an incident and what he might have done better to prevent it than one with a really excellent and long track record.
YOu can get more information about hang gliding through the USHGA (United States Hang Gliding Association) from their website at www.ushga.org.
WEll wRitten, STeve. Not to mention professional, confidence building, inspirational.

And it hasn't been the USHGA (United States Hang Gliding Association) for over a dozen years now. And do check out what happens when you click on the link.

And, people of varying ages... If THAT doesn't give you a lot of pause while you're shopping around for someone to:
- get you into this already rather sketchy flavor of aviation
- whom you can totally trust your life while he's controlling the front end of your string
...
---
2018/05/15 15:10:00 UTC

Accidentally chopped off the last bit before submitting. Just give the bottom starting from the last block of quoted text a skim.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/22.214
Notes from USHPA Meeting Fall 2018
Calef Letorney

Accident review

In the committee we watched a video of an HG accident that was a VERY close call, where the pilot nearly impacted hard enough to be a fatality, but got lucky... basically an aerotow> PIO to lockout> Pilot did not release early enough> finally released and dove at the ground. No attempt to control, wing skipped on wheels and pilot pounded in.

Accident committee

Watched a video of an HG accident, near fatality on aero tow. Pilot declined a fin (asked 3 times), new tow release system. Pilot had not eaten or drank water all day. Big PIO, release, glider dove an turned.... Luckily pulled out and the glider skipped on wheels, re-launched, and pilot pounded in. Pilot only broke a wrist and got a concussion.
In the committee we watched a video...
- Any chance anybody OUTSIDE of the Committee will get to watch this video? Just kidding.

- When and where did this incident take place? How long have the Committee and those involved been suppressing its release and preventing its use as an educational tool to benefit the public and reduce the likelihood of reruns?
...of an HG accident that was a VERY close call...
If it was a VERY close call then it wasn't an ACCIDENT. It was an INCIDENT. If it had been a serious CRASH it still wouldn't have been an ACCIDENT and still would have been an INCIDENT.
...where the pilot nearly impacted hard enough to be a fatality, but got lucky...
He got LUCKY? And if he hadn't been flying with landing gear he'd have likely been killed? So deciding to fly with landing gear is just a LUCK thing? Kinda like doing preflight sidewire stomp tests while being lucky enough not to grind the wires into sharp rocks over time and finding an invisible defect on one of them?
...basically an aerotow> PIO to lockout> Pilot did not release early enough>
- You mean the TUG pilot right? The Pilot In Command? 'Cause the guy on the glider is just a...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question
Jim Rooney - 2008/11/24 05:18:15 UTC

Well, I'm assuming there was some guff about the tug pilot's right of refusal?
Gee, didn't think we'd have to delve into "pilot in command"... I figured that one's pretty well understood in a flying community.

It's quite simple.
The tug is a certified aircraft... the glider is an unpowered ultralight vehicle. The tug pilot is the pilot in command. You are a passenger. You have the same rights and responsibilities as a skydiver.
It's a bitter pill I'm sure, but there you have it.
...PASSENGER - with the same rights and responsibilities as a skydiver. That's from the u$hPa endorsed world's greatest of all time tug pilot - and u$hPa's never in the past decade whispered a single word of issue with that declaration.

- Must've been using a Tad-O-Link. An actual Standard Aerotow Weak Link will break before you can get into too much trouble. So how come you're not telling us that this was a Tad-O-Link so we can reconfigure from the one Davis and Niki are happy with and get the safety of our towing operations properly increased?
...finally released...
- Undoubtedly thinking he could fix a bad thing (the bad thing entirely of his making in the first place) and not wanting to start over.

- We're gonna assume this was an easily reachable release. 'Cause if it hadn't been I doubt this would've been an incident.

- And here I was thinking that:

-- whatever was going on back there...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links
Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 13:47:23 UTC

Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.
...the tug driver could fix by giving us the rope.

-- we had a Pilot Proficiency Program in place with an AT Special Skill signoff that indicated that the pilot being hooked up had had the training and experience was good to do it safely - 'specially in the zilch conditions in which these two serious incidents occurred. (We know they were zilch conditions 'cause nothing's being said about them - just the total cluelessness of the pilot. And if there'd been a significant condition issue it would've been used to further denigrate this guy as having been totally clueless.)
...and dove at the ground.
He should've waited until the focal point of his safe towing system determined the best time to increase the safety of the towing operation. Whenever they blow the worst with which one has to contend is an inconvenience - and all AT rated pilots have been trained to be able to properly respond to inconveniences.
No attempt to control...
- Wow! He instantly went from OVER controlling to ZERO controlling. Looks like on the average he was doing everything just right.

- He was STALLED - you DICKHEAD. NOBODY attempts to control when he's stalled. That's 'cause making no attempt to control is exactly the right thing to do under the circumstances. You stuff the bar and wait for the glider to start flying again before you attempt to control.
...wing skipped on wheels...
How? You said the glider dove at the ground and he made no attempt to control. Wouldn't we have expected the glider to nose in catastrophically if he'd made no attempt to control anything?

Holly Korzilius redux. Major magazine coverage on that one. (My how things have changed over the course of the past thirteen years.)
...and pilot pounded in.
- But the glider didn't?
- Nothing pounded in on this flight. It was the relight that resulted in the serious crash.
Watched a video of an HG accident, near fatality on aero tow.
Yeah? Just about every video I watch of an Industry Standard aerotow is a near fatality. Remember 2016/05/21 Jeff Bohl? Doing everything the same way everyone else was in the same air. Taking a hand off the control bar for two seconds to secure a dangling camera was the sole difference between an inevitable fatal slam-in from under treetop level to climbing up just fine to a couple grand.
Pilot declined a fin (asked 3 times)...
Oh. So we think a fin would've made a positive difference? So who was forcing the tug driver to pull him in the more dangerous configuration? These motherfuckers wouldn't tow any solo with a weak link five pounds more dangerous than 130 pound Greenspot for untold hundreds of thousands of cycles - and having to do twice as many takeoffs and landings as a consequence of the increase the safety of the towing operation. So why didn't they just say, "No. Put the fuckin' fin on and then get back to us."?
...new tow release system.
- Was there something wrong with the old tow release system? If so then what was it? I've always been under the impression that they're all equally safe and just cater to different pilot preferences. 'Cept of course for the homemade crap that have extremely short track records.

- Care to tell us ANYTHING about EITHER one of them? Just kidding.

- Yeah. Flight Park Mafia operators are putting people up on tow release SYSTEMS. An ACTUAL tow release system is a SYSTEM - virtually by definition COMPLEX. And in Flight Park Mafia culture complexity is synonymous with Rube Goldberg. Way too many parts. Twice the number of components...

http://www.ejectionsite.com/eyewitness/tbirdejectdownthroatsm1.jpg
Image

...twice the failure rate.
Pilot had not eaten or drank water all day. Big PIO, release, glider dove an turned.... Luckily pulled out and the glider skipped on wheels, re-launched...
- Yeah, let's pull this guy right back up - doing everything exactly the same ('cept it's been a little longer since he's had anything to eat or drink and the guy's just experienced a near catastrophic low level lockout incident). Pretty much guaranteed to get better results.

- The tug driver did pretty much equally shitty jobs on these two - arguably far worse considering all the extra time, experience, qualifications he undoubtedly had. What did he have for breakfast that morning? (And/Or at the bar the night before?)
...and pilot pounded in.
UN FUCKING BELIEVABLE!!! How could something like that possibly have happened??? Who could've predicted an outcome like that???

Note that the total fucking asshole on the other end of the string at this unidentified total shitrigged operation knows that he's got an accident waiting to happen (again) behind him and still doesn't / isn't able to fix whatever's going on back there by giving the him the rope. Seems like Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney was the only tug driver on the planet who could do that (but not below five hundred feet 'cause prior to then he'd be too busy dodging trees (and you'll notice he never said that WE could fix whatever was going on back there)). But he's been AT history for a number of years now so we're all forever shit outta luck on that layer of safety.
Pilot only broke a wrist and got a concussion.
- Thank God! And obviously with a salad-bowl-on-a-string excuse for a helmet. And please don't bother giving us any information whatsoever on the flight that resulted in the crash and serious injuries. Or should we just assume that it was just a slightly less fortunate rerun of the first one - since all the factors remained exactly the same?

- So when's he gonna be back in good enough shape to come back and give this drill another shot?

- How come you're not posting the video so's EVERYBODY can see what a total douchebag this guy is?

- So what the hell was the PURPOSE of this exclusive u$hPa Boys Club viewing of this video? Certainly not to upgrade any equipment requirements or training protocols. They're all...
Towing

"Nothing to exciting to discuss from Towing." Discussed whether or not they would change AT requirements. Left it alone. Reviewed and approved a new towing test. Discussed roll out process. Some minor SOP clean ups. No actions for the board.
...just fine - as they have been for decades. So just a little perk for being on the Board and showing up at the meeting? "Anybody want a few laughs? Get a load o' THIS asshole!"

- Note that to date there's been NOTHING in the way of public discussion of these two back-to-back serious incidents anywhere out in the mainstream - including/Especially discussions with flight park operators, tug drivers, AT instructors involved.
---
2018/10/27 19:00:00 UTC

Got a note from Brian clueing me into the fact that this was one flight. I saw "re-launched" and got locked into a false assumption. It would've been nice if he'd said "bounced" as that's a much more accurate term for what happened. May redo this one if/when I develop the requisite enthusiasm.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.ozreport.com/9.133
Lesson from an aerotow accident report
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/hollyaccidentreport.jpg
Image
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3782/11449477316_22da4aa82f_o.jpg
USHGA Accident Report Summary
Pilot: Holly Korzilius
Reporter: Steve Wendt, USHGA Instructor # 19528
Date : 5/29/05

Summary: I observed the accident from a few hundred yards away, but could clearly see launch and the aero tow was coming towards my area so that I had a full view of the flight. I was at the wreckage in a few seconds and afterwards gathered the information that helps understand the results of some unfortunate poor decisions of the injured pilot.

The pilot launched at 12:15 while conditions were just starting to become thermally, with just a slight crosswind of maybe 20 degrees with winds of 8 to 12 mph NNW. The pilot had flown here via AT more than 50 times.

Holly immediately had control problems right off the dolly and completed 3 oscilations before it took her 90 degrees from the tow vehicle upon when the tug pilot hit the release and Holly continued turning away from the tow in a fairly violent exchange of force . Holly pulled in to have control speed and then began rounding out , but there was not enough altitude and she hit the ground before she could do so. She was barely 100 feet when she was locked out in a left hand turn. At that time, she was banked up over 60 degrees.

The basebar hit the ground first, nose wires failed from the impact, and at the same time she was hitting face first. She had a full face helmet, which helped reduce her facial injuries but could not totallly prevent them. The gliders wings were level with the ground when it made contact with the ground.

First aid was available quickly and EMT response was appropriate .

Now, why did Holly not have control? Holly has two gliders, a Moyes Sonic, and the Moyes Litesport that she was flying during the accident. She has flown here in much stronger conditions before. and has always flown safely , on both of her gliders, but usually chooses her Sonic if air is questionable, or if she hasn't flown in a while.

Holly for some reason chose to fly her Litesport, she has always towed it with proper releases and weak links and usually seeked advice from me when unsure of something.

This time she couldn't find her v-bridle top line with her weak link installed for her priimary keel release. She chose to tow anyway, and just go from the shoulders, which to my knowledge she had never done before, nor had she been trained to understand potential problems. This could have been done with a short clinic and if we thought it a possibility, been done under supervised conditions in the evening air. Our dollys have check lists for many things, one is that you have a proper weak link installed. She had no weak link as it was normally on the upper line that she couldn't find, and we can only assume that she didn't even consider the fact that she now didn't have a weak link.

These mistakes caused her to have too much bar pressure, farther in bar position, she was cross controlling, and had no weak link. She hadn't flown that glider in a while and changed these towing aspects that I believe all combined to make a violant combination. The pilot also stayed on tow too long. She should have released after the first, or even the second oscilation when she realized that things were not correct. Failing to do so put the glider in a locked out situation that she could no longer control.
Summary...
Yeah? What are we not seeing in the "Summary" that appeared in the unabridged edition? This one wasn't serious and consequential enough to publish the full five pages? Did you check out the traffic on the Zack Marzec pro toad inconvenience fatality on the Jack and Davis Shows? I notice you didn't feel it was important enough to participate in any of it. We could've really benefitted from your exceptional knowledge. Hell, you're the one that signed off Jim Rooney's instructor rating.

08-19
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Also the one who signed Bill Priday's Three not long before he bought it at...

09-05019
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Image
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10-05124

...Whitwell.

098-23104-25420
http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49979995768_581997b8ac_o.png
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Why no public word on that one? 'Cause it conveniently occurred 495 crowflight miles WSW of your scooter, platform, and dolly launch Manquin site? And you couldn't talk about any of the unfortunate poor decisions of the fatally splattered pilot 'cause most of the big names in the sport had experienced unhooked launch incidents themselves?
I observed the accident from a few hundred yards away, but could clearly see launch...
- Oh. You could CLEARLY see launch. So you could CLEARLY see who was launching and how she was hooked up. Thanks bigtime for providing us with that information.

- So that's Blue Sky SOP.

- You have the pilot - in this case the STUDENT pilot 'cause she's not yet Pro Toad rated - move her glider, cart, self to launch position; prone out; hook herself up; signal the tug to take up slack; check the windsock; signal you to signal the tug to roll.

- We know she's not signaling the tug to roll 'cause he's looking into a...

Image

...convex / wide angle mirror and he won't be able to see launch as clearly as you will be standing a few hundred yards upwind. And we know that there's nobody else closer to the glider 'cause if there were you'd obviously be telling us all about him/her/them in this totally excellent Accident Report Summary.

- So you could CLEARLY SEE that:

-- this was Holly on her Litesport with her Quallaby Release and bicycle brake lever actuator securely velcroed to her starboard control tube...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sw/13323834/
Image

...with no primary bridle installed

-- Holly was:

--- intending to violate critical and clearly stated safety SOPs by hooking up pro toad without being signed off after successful completion of the requisite short clinic available to pilots who'd completed fifty consecutive three point tows without incident

--- minus the focal point of her safe towing system

- We know that there were no responsible parties at launch doing anything of any significance 'cause if there had been you'd have most assuredly identified them by name, qualifications, experience and told us what their responsibilities were. And we'd obviously have had statements from these individuals - assuming nobody had anything to hide. And we know that this is, in fact, the case because you've stated that this incident was solely the result of some unfortunate poor decisions of the injured pilot.

So then why did you from the usual launch supervisor position a few hundred yards upwind of glider launch position signal the tug to roll?

- Well, if you could CLEARLY SEE LAUNCH then we certainly don't need to see any statements from anybody else who witnessed the preps and flight or was involved in them. Yours is OBVIOUSLY the only perspective that would be of any value in this analysis. Which is a bit odd - seeing as how everybody's celebrating your award for Instructor of the Year. I always think of a great instructor as someone who can bring a student up to his speed in pretty short order. But your so head and shoulders higher than anybody else we can name that I guess that's just a pipe dream.
...and the aero tow was coming towards my area so that I had a full view of the flight.
- Good job then. And if you'd been standing at the Flight Park Mafia standard launch supervisor position the view would kept getting worse and worse as the situation progressed from problematic to total tits up.

- Of course you did. It's the responsibility of the launch supervisor to observe the launch...

13-0605 - 14-0614
ImageImage
ImageImage
23-1020 - 24-1117

...up until the tow has safely cleared the kill zone. (Plus it's kinda fun. 'Cause with Flight Park Mafia SOPs and equipment standards ya just never know when something really interesting might happen.) Holly since the moment after she lifted off the cart was in pretty deep shit - REALLY deep shit once the tug pilot...
Towing Aloft - 1998/01

Pro Tip: Always thank the tug pilot for intentionally releasing you, even if you feel you could have ridden it out. He should be given a vote of confidence that he made a good decision in the interest of your safety.
...made a good decision in the interest of her safety.
Wills Wing / Blue Sky / Steve Wendt / Ryan Voight Productions - 2007/03

NEVER CUT THE POWER...

Image

Reduce Gradually
Increase Gradually
Hey Holly... I never heard you thank Tex for making a good decision in the interest of your safety - even though you felt you could have ridden it out. Ya ungrateful total BITCH. What do think Tex is gonna do NEXT TIME one of these unfortunate situations develops behind him? What if it's Scott?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14221
Tad's release
William Olive - 2008/12/24 23:46:36 UTC

I've seen a few given the rope by alert tug pilots, early on when things were going wrong, but way before it got really ugly. Invariably the HG pilot thinks "What the hell, I would have got that back." "Now I've got a bent upright."

The next one to come up to the tuggie and say "Thanks for saving my life." will be the 1st.
I shudder to think.

- So then why didn't you signal Tex to abort the tow the instant you realized that Holly was launching pro toad minus the short clinic that you require for all your AT students before they're cleared to roll minus the trim connection? You were a few hundred yards away, the aero tow was coming towards your area, the towline's 250 feet long, you could clearly see everything, you made zero effort to have the tow aborted. If you'd somehow known that Holly was going up with a bad sidewire would you have made the same zero effort?

Here's a thought...

Your pro toad clinic is obvious total bullshit. Switching to one point is considered to be no big fuckin' deal - just another individual pilot preference like wheels versus no wheels. Nothing at all like going from a Standard Aerotow Weak Link to Tad-O-Link.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Davis Straub - 2011/08/26 14:04:52 UTC

We had six weaklink breaks in a row at Zapata this year. Russell Brown (tug pilot, tug owner, Quest Air owner) said go ahead and double up (four strands of Cortland Greenspot). He knows I used his Zapata weaklink in Big Spring (pilots were asked to tell the tug pilot if they were doing that).
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 17:34:33 UTC

Do NOT skip this little bit...
pilots were asked to tell the tug pilot if they were doing thatpilots were asked to tell the tug pilot if they were doing that
See, Russel knows what's up.
He knows that you're changing the equation and because of this, you need to ask the tug pilot.
2019 Big Spring Nationals - official u$hPa event controlled by Davis Dead-On Straub. Requires a Three with an AT rating "or evidence of extensive aerotowing experience". An AT rating can be scored by a Two in a total of two flights so "extensive aerotowing experience" is two launches to five hundred feet in glass air. Mandates use of "appropriate bridles" which are the cheap bent pin pro toad crap Davis sells. So on AT #03 in comp thermal conditions a guy who scored his Three with two hours total back in 1982 and has only scored those two 90 second AT tows since is now forced to fly pro toad. And there's nothing in the AT requirements which excludes pro toad (and can't be 'cause that would be documentation of u$hPa's knowledge that pro toad is inherently and unnecessarily dangerous) so this could be the guy's third pro toad flight.

And here's Davis at the 2019 Big Spring Nationals with his extensive aerotowing experience, appropriate pro toad bridle, and appropriate two hundred pound Tad-O-Link not endangering himself or Bobby:

14-0614 - 18-0801
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And one of his unidentified muppet competitors:

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At least Holly didn't drag a tip on launch, was never below the tug, did better than both of these assholes in the heading department. And she was launching in violent midday thermal conditions. No mention of anything like this on these Big Spring launches.

And we both know that prior to the Dragonfly ALL aerotowing was one point. When the Cosmos came out everybody's first AT was solo one point and foot launched. And this could well have been the first tow flight of any flavor for many participants. Wasn't a lot of fun but it wasn't the bloodbath you're implying it would've been. We were both there 1984/02/11-12 at Kitty Hawk when Gerard Thevenot, Jean-Michel Bernasconi, Mark Airey were doing their Cosmos promo and you were running things on the ground. (P.S. Fuck you for kicking me out of that clinic ('cause I'd had a mild crash at the South Bowl after Day 1 got blown out). Good job keeping me safe from myself. And totally outstanding job keeping Holly and Bill safe from themselves.)

I had ONE flight at your place - 2004/09/20, over eight months prior to this incident. Showed up with my HPAT 158 but Rob Kells was there on his demo tour and I wanted to put a new toy in my log. U2 160. You laid down your laws - the bullshittiest of which was no aerobatics. Defined as anything beyond the owners manual 30 degrees up or down pitch and sixty roll. I wasn't gonna fly that kite with the easily reachable Quallaby two point crap Rob had strung...

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...all over it so I took it off and prepped for one point - twin easily reachable straight pin barrels.

You never:
- asked:
-- to see my card to verify my AT-PT signoff
-- if I'd ever gone up pro toad before
- advised me of any additional risk associated with going up pro toad

Also...

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06-03114
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Seconds after launching pro toad into unpromising looking thermal conditions that Kitty Hawk tandem AT instructor motherfucker was standing on his tail going up like a rocket with the bar stuffed until his Standard Aerotow Weak Link catastrophically increased the safety of the towing operation. Where were you to put out any information that helps understand the results of any unfortunate poor decisions of the fatally inconvenienced pilot? This guy did absolutely nothing wrong and got fatally splattered while Hang Three Holly did absolutely nothing right but was able to resume her flying career within a few months.

You were fully aware of what was going on. Total Blue Sky / Flight Park Mafia Standard Operating Procedure. There was no reason to intervene. Only after things went way south fast were you concerned about all the unfortunate poor decisions of the injured pilot. And anybody who's beyond Training Day 2 who's had a devastating crash like that is gonna put all the blame on him or her self. Putty in your hands.
I was at the wreckage in a few seconds...
Wow! Astoundingly quick response to the situation. You really know how to be at the right place at the right time.
...and afterwards gathered the information that helps understand the results of some unfortunate poor decisions of the injured pilot.
- Keep up the great work.

- And immediately started figuring out which information needed to be suppressed to prevent helping understanding all the unfortunate poor decisions you made in managing your instructional/recreational operation.

- And here I was thinking that u$hPa instructors and ratings officials weren't supposed to sign off students and candidates who'd be likely to make and execute poor decisions.
Holly Korzilius - 2006/09

That evening a party was thrown at the flight park in recognition of my instructor's selection as the USHGA Hang Gliding Instructor of the Year.
Good thing ya got the best of the best there, Holly. Just think how much harder you'd have hit if you'd had some has-been wack job like T** at K*** S******.

- Care to tell us what you were doing upwind that was more important than supervising launch? But I guess you had individuals you trained, qualified, trusted running that end of the operation.

- In her 2006/09 magazine report Holly identifies two "hang gliding instructors" present at launch and says she did not discuss her intent to tow off the shoulders with either of them.

They'd have been checking her setup and connection, making sure the windsock wasn't doing anything unusual, verifying that she'd successfully completed your short pro toad clinic before okaying her to roll one point, radioing Tex that this was her first pro tow, signaling the tug to launch... So then how can this be just the results of some unfortunate poor decisions of the injured pilot?

You give us zero indication of any other individuals of any description with any level of experience or responsibility at launch. That silence alone screams volumes regarding Blue Sky incompetence and negligence. Even though it's NEVER done, one could justify launching a competent AT pilot unassisted but you just shot yourself in the foot on this one by portraying her as incompetent.

And now that I think of it...
Joe Gregor - 2006/01

The accident pilot spent some time under his glider while it was turned around. He then lifted it, turned 180 degrees to face the ramp, and was met by a side wire crew. At this point his team leader told the accident pilot, "Do a hang check." The wire crewman on the right side reported that, after subsequently setting the glider down, the accident pilot started adjusting his VG rope and talking to the crew about how to give him feedback.

The accident pilot picked up his glider and proceeded to the launch point. Several pilots present at the scene reported they checked his hang point and it looked like he was hooked in. Several pilots present at the scene reported that there were for or five other individuals who said, "Do a hang check," or "Have you done a hang check?" In no case was it reported that he responded directly.

Conditions were pronounced fine and the accident pilot cleared his launch. He launched using the grapevine grip and the glider dove as soon as he put weight on it. Two videos of the launch clearly show that he rotated his hands to the beer-bottle grip as soon as he started running and the glider lifted.

The glider disappeared from view but soon reappeared going nearly straight up, reached an apex, stalled, yawed to the side, and went back down nearly vertically. Witness reports and later review of two videos taken of the launch indicate that the accident pilot had lost his grip on the glider as soon as it began pulling out from the dive. He was carried on a trajectory that sent him past the trees below launch and it was estimated that he fell approximately 300 feet. He died upon impact.
09-0919
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Another one of your victims.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32681
Tandem crash in LV (speculation thread)
Mark G. Forbes - 2015/03/31 03:10:32 UTC

Based on our past experience, comments in club forums and venues like this one can and will be cited in court. As an example, a comment as innocuous as "Let's all keep an eye out for each other out there" was used to argue that every pilot present at a launch site had a duty to prevent a launched-unhooked fatal accident. The pilots at the site didn't know that the pilot in question was intent on launching; they thought he was just walking over to the ramp to line up first. And then he ran off the ramp, the glider flew away and he didn't. And then we got sued.
The Incredible Shrinking Launch Crew. Why?

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32681
Tandem crash in LV (speculation thread)
Mark G. Forbes - 2015/04/01 03:46:29 UTC

Among ourselves, we agree (via the waiver) that we understand we're engaged in a risky sport that can cause serious injury or death. We each agree that we are personally and individually responsible for our own safety. If we have an accident and get hurt, we agree in advance that it is solely our own fault, no matter what the circumstances might be. We sign at the bottom saying that we fully understand these things, that we accept them, and that we know we are giving up the right to sue anybody if an accident happens.

Those are fundamental tenets of our sport. We are all individually responsible for ourselves and our safety. We need to see and avoid all other pilots, avoid crashing into people or property and use good judgment when flying. If someone doesn't agree with those principles, then they don't need to be involved in our sport.
Afraid that folk NOT among ourselves might NOT agree that instructors, ratings officials, commercial operations, event organizers, tow drivers, launch crew have total zilch responsibility for anything bad that happens with the glider?

When you authorize douchebags like Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt, Davis Dead-On Straub, Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney to violate u$hPa SOPs and FAA regs and pull their own standards outta their own asses then you motherfuckers are totally on the hook for what happens to a Holly Korzilius, Bill Priday, Arys Moorhead, Nancy Tachibana. And that's the way the courts worked after Shannon Hamby.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question
Jim Rooney - 2008/11/24 05:18:15 UTC

Well, I'm assuming there was some guff about the tug pilot's right of refusal?
Gee, didn't think we'd have to delve into "pilot in command"... I figured that one's pretty well understood in a flying community.

It's quite simple.
The tug is a certified aircraft... the glider is an unpowered ultralight vehicle. The tug pilot is the pilot in command. You are a passenger. You have the same rights and responsibilities as a skydiver.
It's a bitter pill I'm sure, but there you have it.
Bet that made ya real popular with Tim Herr and all your Flight Park Mafia drivers and buddies.
The pilot launched at 12:15 while conditions were just starting to become thermally...
- Big fuckin' surprise. There's not much point in going up BEFORE conditions just start to become thermally once you're beyond intro level. And we know from her 2006/09 magazine report that she had zero interest in going up in sled conditions. She'd scrubbed the previous day 'cause it wasn't soarable.

- The implication being that the thermal conditions were a relevant issue in this one. Bullshit. She'd have had to have been blasted right off the cart. This is a virtually nonexistent scenario. There wasn't a single low level thermal incident reported from the entire history of Ridgely operations.

- "Just starting to become thermally" based on what? Cumies were starting to form? There isn't one syllable from anyone anywhere that the air before or during the relevant period was doing anything other than slightly crossing from the NNW at maybe 20 degrees from 8 to 12 mph. You're grasping at straws to help dump whatever you think you can get away with on Holly.

- If you're launching pro toad you're not a pilot. You're some bozo on a decertified aircraft along for the ride and gambling that nothing bad will happen with the air before you're clear of the kill zone.
...with just a slight crosswind of maybe 20 degrees with winds of 8 to 12 mph NNW.
- So you were undoubtedly launching back towards base - a wee bit east of north.
- Yeah, big fuckin' deal. Also the opinions of Holly, Tex, launch crew, yourself...
The pilot had flown here via AT more than 50 times.
Yeah, 75 is more than 50. That's the undisputed estimate that will appear in the magazine. Not to mention over a hundred Blue Sky truck tows - which you conspicuously don't. But let's just take the aero and call it three minutes per tow which is a bit stingy but we'll give you the benefit of the doubt. That comes out to over three and a third hours of airtime just on aerotow. You only needed two hours total for a Three back when I got mine - 32674 - before The Industry figured out they could better exploit the recreational pilot by quietly quintupling that figure.

And I got news for ya... Aerotowing in the nastiest imaginable thermal conditions requires solid Two level proficiency and nothing more. One doesn't keep getting better at AT after two or three tows. One doesn't look up a thousand feet at a Bo Hagewood behind a Jim Rooney or vice versa and say, "WOW! Those guys are AMAZING!"

And it just occurred to me that there are zero towing or towing related proficiency signoffs that can't be bagged by a new Two.

For non tow related flights you need a Three for:
- Assisted Windy Cliff Launch
- Turbulence
- Restricted Landing Field
- Cross Country
- High Altitude Launch

AWCL is totally irrelevant, Turbulence is most dangerous on a mountain foot launch but can be very easily avoided and/or dealt with on a tow launch ('specially payout), RLF and XC can be an issues for tow ONLY after you've gotten up and left, High Altitude is never a problem when you have a sufficient engine generating launch power.

So what you motherfuckers have accidentally done is confirm what's always been obvious to all the people who actually do the actual flying - that non tow foot launch is thirty times as dangerous as non shitrigged towing. (Suck my dick, Rick Masters.)
Holly immediately had control problems right off the dolly...
- Probably got slammed by a thermal right off the dolly. Pity she hadn't gotten into the air ten of fifteen minutes earlier.

- Tex is still on the ground at this point. And why didn't Tex abort the tow when things started going south? The most magnificent product of your instructional career assures us...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links
Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 13:47:23 UTC

Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.
...that he can fix whatever's going on back there by giving us the rope. So...
Wills Wing / Blue Sky / Steve Wendt / Ryan Voight Productions - 2007/03

NEVER CUT THE POWER...

Image

Reduce Gradually
Increase Gradually
...that didn't occur to Tex in time?

- On 2009/01/03 - Day 1 of the Forbes Flatlands - Steve Elliot came off:
-- the cart pro toad in zero conditions that anyone thought worthy of mention
-- WAY worse than Holly

Funny we never heard anything about his crappy skills, judgment, Tad-O-Link and inappropriate conditions. There was no incident report at all beyond:

http://ozreport.com/13.003
Forbes, day one, task one
Davis Straub - 2009/01/03 20:50:24 UTC

Steve Elliot came off the cart crooked and things went from bad to worse as he augured in.
What's coming out in the wake of this 2005/05/29 Holly Korzilius isn't incident reporting - it's Industry / Flight Park Mafia damage control. Ditto for Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt's next victim - 2005/10/01.
With each flight, demonstrates a method of establishing that pilot is hooked in just prior to launch.
Good freakin' luck finding a reference to that one. Conspicuously absent in Rob Kells' 2005/12 magazine article.
...and completed 3 oscilations before it took her 90 degrees from the tow vehicle upon when the tug pilot hit the release and Holly continued turning away from the tow in a fairly violent exchange of force .
Whoa! I guess there really CAN BE unpleasant issues associated with fairly violent exchanges of force - even at under tug weak link.
Holly pulled in to have control speed...
Like this?

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We heard that she was oscillating. We didn't hear that she was failing to hold the glider down. So wasn't she already pulled in close to the max extent possible? Oscillating is OVERcontrol. She HAD control speed and authority UNTIL Tex fixed whatever was going on back there.
...and then began rounding out ,
Recovering from a stall.
...but there was not enough altitude and she hit the ground before she could do so.
- And you didn't say that Tex throttled back to give her a chance to get things back under control. And we've never heard a single word from the Pilot In Command of this one. Compare/Contrast with 1996/07/25 Bill Bennett / Mike Del Signore. Got an honest detailed account from Dave Farkas so we know EXACTLY what happened and why - despite Dennis Pagen's best efforts.

- According to (the late - for all intents and purposes) Mitch Shipley that can't happen. You're stalled when your tow's vaporized, you pull in to recover, then you execute a perfectly timed flare to land on your feet with a zero to three stepper.
She was barely 100 feet when she was locked out in a left hand turn.
- She wasn't locked out or turning. She had the bar stuffed and was oscillating / rolling back and forth. A lockout is ONLY gonna happen to a flyer who knows her left from her right if she comes off the cart early with a stalled wing or she gets asymmetrically blasted by something.

- If she was at a hundred feet then Tex was close to it. He had options.
At that time, she was banked up over 60 degrees.
Big fuckin' deal. How far off heading was she? Since you're not saying anything about heading we know the answer to that one.
The basebar hit the ground first, nose wires failed from the impact, and at the same time she was hitting face first.
- Wow, that sure was exciting. I've now forgotten all about all the relevant stuff you're conspicuously omitting.

- Oh. So there were no wheels. Guess she had long ago perfected her flare timing. So why do you think she was unable to execute a perfectly timed flare on this occasion?

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29884
Hat Creek Power Whack
Mike Bilyk - 2013/09/07 17:07:26 UTC

Wheel landings are for girls!
Apparently not.

- This is serious. According to this crap Steve's written - which has been contradicted nowhere by no one - she was flying wheel-less. If that's true even wheels that could've survived 1.5 revolutions would almost undoubtedly greatly mitigated the severity of her injuries. If she in fact WERE flying with wheels that survived 1.5 revolutions she'd have been dead without them. And I believe that two have been the case.

But the Industry position is that wheels are for girls and will never be of any use to any halfway competent Hang 2.5. And to abandon that position, make wheels or skids mandatory for any environment or activity, would open them up to a massive degree of liability.
She had a full face helmet, which helped reduce her facial injuries but could not totallly prevent them.
So are you making full face helmets mandatory for AT launches? Or are you still OK just banning aerobatics?
The gliders wings were level with the ground when it made contact with the ground.
Isn't it amazing how flawlessly Holly started performing the millisecond after the safety of the towing operation was increased. Go figure.
First aid was available quickly and EMT response was appropriate .
Appropriate? 130 pound test? Glad you approved. Really happy that SOMETHING appropriate was finally done with respect to this day's flying. (How 'bout all the ICU and reconstructive surgery stuff? You also OK with the way they handled things?)
Now, why did Holly not have control?
- She did - asshole. She had TOO MUCH.
- 'Cause her instruction and the management of flight ops at Blue Sky totally sucked? Just kidding.
Holly has two gliders...
Not anymore. And you bloody well know that.
...a Moyes Sonic, and the Moyes Litesport that she was flying during the accident. She has flown here in much stronger conditions before. and has always flown safely , on both of her gliders, but usually chooses her Sonic if air is questionable, or if she hasn't flown in a while.
- And we're not hearing about any deficits in her flying - regardless of glider and/or currency.

- What was Tex flying? The Dragonfly was purpose built as a hang glider tug and can be slowed way down into the twenties. What was the stall speed of the tug Holly had in front of her? Conspicuous absence of tug and driver IDs and driver qualifications and experience in the magazine report as well.
Holly for some reason chose to fly her Litesport...
What a stupid bitch. What WAS she thinking? And how come nobody talked any sense into her? Or sent her to the back of the line to change to an appropriate glider?
...she has always towed it with proper releases...
Wanna see the results of a proper release from a similar AT incident eleven months plus three days prior to this one?
Joe Gregor - 2004/09

There is no evidence that the pilot made an attempt to release from tow prior to the weak link break, the gate was found closed on the Wallaby-style tow release.
You wouldn't know a proper release if one bit you in the ass. I went down to your dump on 2004/09/20 to show you the AT equipment I'd developed. You weren't the least bit interested. Too complicated. Too many parts.

And I met your product Bill Priday that day. He would die a year plus eleven days later running off Whitwell not connected to the glider you sold him. And you never published a single public word on the incident. The only reason you're covering this one is to try to cover your ass.
...and weak links...
Tell us how a weak link was the slightest bit relevant to this one. There isn't a dust particle's worth of evidence that there was anything above normal successful solo tow range. There's no suggestion that the tug was the least bit compromised and legally the tug's required to be flying a weak link no more than 25 percent over the glider's. The fact that you're bringing up the weak link without saying a single goddam thing about its relevance shows us that this is a(nother) deliberate obfuscation.
...and usually seeked advice from me when unsure of something.
- Like grammar.

- From whom did she UNusually seek advice when unsure of something? Smoking gun.

You just pretty much confirmed for us what Holly will later report in the magazine - that she seeked advice from individuals regarded as qualified pilots at your operation. And we know that your launch crew was totally OK with what she was doing and how she was configured.

None of this is rocket science. So why shouldn't everybody be on the same page with everything? At local mountain sites - like Woodstock and McConnellsburg - you're not gonna find people on significantly different pages with respect to go/no-go decisions. Why did we have this dynamic going on at Manquin?
This time she couldn't find her v-bridle top line with her weak link installed for her priimary keel release.
So she then obviously had a SECONDARY release on at least one of her shoulders. And why do we have SECONDARY releases? In case the primary bridle wraps at the tow ring. And if that had happened either after an attempted emergency release 'cause she'd been slammed by one of those thermals you insinuate were coming through at launch or because of a Standard Aerotow Weak Link increase in the safety of the towing operation or inconvenience she'd have been in EXACTLY the same situation and experienced EXACTLY the some consequences.
She chose to tow anyway...
And none of your crew guys - all of whom had successfully completed your short pro toad clinic - had the slightest problem with the situation. No one told her to hold on for a minute and a half while he went and grabbed a spare primary bridle. And everybody who ATs should always have a spare primary bridle 'cause there's always the possibility of losing one after a wrap upon any release or Standard Aerotow Weak Link increase in the safety of the towing operation.
...and just go from the shoulders, which to my knowledge she had never done before, nor had she been trained to understand potential problems.
- Interesting. You're not absolutely sure she'd never pro toad before but you ARE absolutely sure she'd never been trained to understand potential problems. You should try engaging your brain ever once in a while as you're composing reports that will publicly accessible.

-Which is another way of saying that although you equipped her with a secondary release, and no secondary weak link, you'd never trained her...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up
Jim Rooney - 2009/11/02 18:58:13 UTC

Oh it happens.
I have, all the guys I work with have.
(Our average is 1 in 1,000 tows)

As I said, the odds are with you, but still... slapping the weaklink on the other side is such an easy solution.

Oh yeah... an other fun fact for ya... ya know when it's far more likely to happen? During a lockout. When we're doing lockout training, the odds go from 1 in 1,000 to over 50/50.
...how to deal with any actual primary bridle wrap situation. Which is another way of saying that ALL of your AT training totally sucks.

- And all this was totally OK with your unidentified launch crew. Total shit operation.
This could have been done with a short clinic and if we thought it a possibility, been done under supervised conditions in the evening air.
- Under supervised conditions? Tell me how you "supervise" a solo glider after it's left its wire runner behind?

- Who the fuck is "we"? Pretty fucking obviously not Holly or your launch crew 'cause everybody at that end of the rope DID think it was a possibility.

- You also thought it was a possibility. You knew who was flying and you could see that it was a one point hook-up. If you hadn't and had thought it was a big fuckin' deal you'd have told us about the point at which the realization hit you. Same way people report the moment they realize that a foot launch is going off unhooked.

- So then why did Holly score her AT signoff and not pursue her AT-PT at one of your short Pro Toad clinics? Holly was there the whole previous day but elected not to fly 'cause the conditions were total sled. What better things did people have to do? Think how many of your students and visitors you could've qualified - at maybe thirty bucks a pop. As it was the first tow next day (we didn't hear about any previous flight - there weren't any) you had a severely mangled and almost killed student pilot, a totaled glider, emergency response, shock trauma, weekend over... Doesn't that reflect some unfortunate poor decisions on your part?

- Tex either would or should've known that this was Holly and that it was her first pro toad effort. The crew should've notified him and if they didn't then they didn't think this was a big fuckin' deal and THAT would be a major problem with your operation.

- Why has there never been an AT-PT signoff on our cards? Wouldn't that have safely stopped everything in its tracks? For non tow foot launch we have Cliff Launch and Assisted Windy Cliff Launch. The former's available to Twos, the latter requires a Three. Everything's pretty straightforward and we don't seem to have any systemic problems in that area of the game.

- We've never had and never will have an AT-PT signoff 'cause it's shoddy lethal bullshit as has been documented in the magazine since the beginning of time. An analogous situation would be to have an Aerobatics signoff for Threes and an Aerobatics - Turbulence signoff for Fours. Gliders can be looped safely in glassy smooth air while going for loops in thermal conditions would be close to suicide and NOBODY does it. The only difference is that Pro Towing isn't quite as lethal. But as far as Zack Marzec was concerned it was 100.00 percent lethal. This shit's been documented in the magazine by Dennis Pagen and illustrated on the fucking cover...

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http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9230
Departing the launch cart
Jim Rooney - 2007/08/24 12:20:06 UTC

Bad habit #1, not flying the glider... just letting the tug drag you around by the nose, combines with the fact that pro towing REQUIRES the pilot to do something (not let that bar move). So instead of holding the bar where it is, bad habit pilot just lets the tug pull him. This pulls him through the control frame with the same effect as the pilot pulling in... a LOT.

I've seen gliders go negative while still on the cart this way.
The results are never pretty.
That's another sued-out-of-existence waiting to happen and Tim Herr knows it.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links
Jim Rooney - 2007/07/22 22:30:28 UTC

I've heard it a million times before from comp pilots insisting on towing with even doubled up weaklinks (some want no weaklink). I tell them the same thing I'm telling you... suck it up. You're not the only one on the line. I didn't ask to be a test pilot. I can live with your inconvenience.
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question
Jim Rooney - 2008/11/24 05:18:15 UTC

I've personally refused to tow a flight park owner over this very issue. I didn't want to clash, but I wasn't towing him. Yup, he wanted to tow with a doubled up weaklink. He eventually towed (behind me) with a single and sorry to disappoint any drama mongers, we're still friends. And lone gun crazy Rooney? Ten other tow pilots turned him down that day for the same reason.
But Holly hooking up with NO weak link going pro toad for the first time at Blue Sky... Zero problem on the front end.

And...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=587
Holly's Accident

62 posts, 19/20 participants...

Ralph Sickinger
Scott Wilkinson
Mark Cavanaugh
Hugh McElrath
Marc Fink
Dave Rice
Bacil Dickert
Paul/Lauren Tjaden
Shawn Ray hepcat1989
Matthew Graham
Paul Adamez
Joe Schad
Linda Baskerville
Carlos Weill
Cragin Shelton
Ellis Kim
Brian Vant-Hull
Daniel Broxterman
Holly Korzilius

...look who has absolutely no comment - here or anywhere else ever. Not even a wish for a full and speedy recovery. Yeah Jim. Treat this one like PLUTONIUM. Let Steve, Davis, Joe, u$hPa's professional spinmeisters take care of things. Compare/Contrast with:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/09/02 19:41:27 UTC

Please note that the weaklink *saved* her ass. She still piled into the earth despite the weaklink helping her... for the same reason it had to help... lack of towing ability. She sat on the cart, like so many people insist on doing, and took to the air at Mach 5.
That never goes well.
Yet people insist on doing it.
And then there's a warning shot from Davis:
Davis Straub - 2011/09/03 01:39:55 UTC

I think that I know the one that is being referred to.

The problem was an inexperienced female student put on a cart that had the keel cradle way too high, so she was pinned to the cart. The folks working at Lookout who helped her were incompetent.
Davis doesn't fly / have any visible use for Lockout. Torpedo Matt and send more business to...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap
Davis Straub - 2011/07/30 19:51:54 UTC

I'm very happy with the way Quest Air (Bobby Bailey designed) does it now.
...Quest.
Our dollys have check lists for many things, one is that you have a proper weak link installed.
- Who's responsible for checking the checklists? Just the sub pro toad muppet passenger on the glider? Or is there a launch supervisor who's supposed to make sure you're not going up with a Tad-O-Link that would spell almost certain instant death to the tug driver / Pilot In Command?

- Why don't you tell us what a PROPER weak link is...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Bart Weghorst - 2011/08/28 20:29:27 UTC

Now I don't give a shit about breaking strength anymore. I really don't care what the numbers are. I just want my weaklink to break every once in a while.
Seems to be a bit more confusion and ambiguity on the issue these days.
She had no weak link...
Still waiting to hear what it is and what it's supposed to do.
...as it was normally on the upper line that she couldn't find, and we can only assume that she didn't even consider the fact that she now didn't have a weak link.
- Ditto for your crew.

- And we don't have to assume that you weren't configuring your secondary releases with secondary weak links - idiot.

- Isn't there a legal requirement for a front end weak link heavier but no heavier than 25 percent over the back end? That would mean that Tex should've been flying a max of 283 pounds. And nowadays many of us are happy with 400 pounds back end. So why is this issue really worth mentioning?

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7344
BlueSky, Saturday, September 16, 2017
Knut Ryerson - 2017/09/18 03:23:25 UTC
McLean, Virginia

Good turnout this weekend at Bluesky.
Flew on Saturday and had strong ambition, maybe going XC, but it got overdeveloped. Had two extended sleds, aerotowing.
02-10909
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Note secondary weak link on secondary release with moronically long secondary bridle at Blue Sky on 2017/09/16. (I seem to have missed the advisory in the magazine and on The Davis Show.)

Also... Every AT dolly launch you see anywhere on the planet is gonna have at least one assistant helping the glider get off as efficiently and safely as possible - given the confines of Flight Park Mafia incompetence, negligence, shit equipment, corruption. They're supposed to check suspension, leg loops, releases, weak links, routing of bridles. You weren't using crew or your crew was negligent and incompetent. Pick one. And we know goddam well it was the latter.
These mistakes caused her to have too much bar pressure...
Too much bar pressure? So you're saying that the Moyes Litesport and comparable and under gliders can't be safely pro toad. Thanks bigtime for putting that in black and white. Hard to argue with someone so exceptionally knowledgeable.

But bull fucking shit. Bar pressure wasn't an issue of any kind on this one.
...farther in bar position...
You mean like Steve Pearson above? Or:

06-03114
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3728/9655895292_f4f808fb0e_o.png
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http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
William Olive - 2013/02/27 20:55:06 UTC

Like the rest of us, you have no idea what really happened on that tow.
We probably never will know.
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/28 01:17:55 UTC

Well said Billo
I'm a bit sick of all the armchair experts telling me how my friend died.

Ah but hg'ers get so uppity when you tell them not to speculate.
Sounds like we actually may have some idea what really happened on that tow. Pity nobody clued you in regarding what had happened at Quest so's you could've weighed in and given some of us muppets some guidance.
...she was cross controlling...
And here I was thinking she was oscillating. If she'd been cross controlling she'd have gone left when she was trying to go right. And after she'd gone hard left she'd have used even more left input in her effort to bring it back. (Suck my dick, Steve.)
...and had no weak link.
I so do hate it when there's nothing to break before you can get into too much trouble. And if there's no weak link the tug pilot will have no way of knowing whether or not the glider's getting into too much trouble so he won't know when or how to use his release lever.
She hadn't flown that glider in a while and changed these towing aspects that I believe all combined to make a violant combination.
Really? I didn't hear about anything combining to make a violant combination until the glider violantly combined with the runway.
The pilot also stayed on tow too long.
- You mean the passenger?

- Wasn't the Pilot In Command the one who determined the length of time she stayed on tow?

- Why did the tug's weak link decide to keep her on tow that long? 'Cause it sensed that the tug wasn't in too much trouble and keeping the glider from getting into too much trouble wasn't its job?

- How the fuck do you know she stayed on tow too long? The glider pilot, the tug pilot, and the focal point of the tug's safe towing system all elected to continue the tow until the tug pilot decided it was time to fix whatever was going on back there - when the glider was climbing hard in a near stall situation. The results were catastrophic and damn near fatal. If Tex had waited a second and a half until she was coming back she'd have been OK. Ditto if he'd throttled back and let her regain control. Probably if he'd just continued the tow and given her some more recovery altitude.

You say:
Wills Wing / Blue Sky / Steve Wendt / Ryan Voight Productions - 2007/03

NEVER CUT THE POWER...

Image

Reduce Gradually
Increase Gradually
He had it floored for takeoff, there's not a single syllable from anyone anywhere - 'specially from Tex - to indicate that he eased off a couple RPMs, she stalled and damn near died. Do you ever read and/or think about any of the two or three things you've gotten RIGHT?
She should have released after the first, or even the second oscilation when she realized that things were not correct.
Yeah...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3107
I have a tandem rating!!!
Lauren Tjaden - 2008/03/23 22:20:15 UTC

When Jim got me locked out to the right, I couldn't keep the pitch of the glider with one hand for more than a second (the pressure was a zillion pounds, more or less), but the F'ing release slid around when I tried to hit it. The barrel release wouldn't work because we had too much pressure on it.

Anyhow, the tandem can indeed perform big wingovers, as I demonstrated when I finally got separated from the tug.
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3391
More on Zapata and weak link
Paul Tjaden - 2008/07/22 04:32:22 UTC

I have never had a lockout situation happen so quickly and dramatically and had no chance to release as I have always thought I could do.
What's wrong with these assholes? They've all had the best training and have been decked out with the best equipment possible.

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Failing to do so put the glider in a locked out situation that she could no longer control.
Go fuck yourself.

This asshole is still advertising this crap:

http://www.blueskyhg.com/products.aspx?Prod=5&Manu=0
BlueSky Virginia Hang Gliding
Barrel Release
Standard barrel release, we usually have many in stock and make them in a red or a black configuration.
Image
TODAY. And somebody find me an advisory he's put out that secondary release assemblies need to be configured with secondary weak links. And what's a 2020/09/03 Blue Sky AT weak link?

Image

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Cragin Shelton - 2011/09/03 23:57:33 UTC

Nice Reference Citation
Ridgerodent:
Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974

"The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release."- Richard Johnson
Do you REALLY think that there has been no progress in knowledge about the practical applied physics and engineering of hang gliding in 37 years? OR that an early, 3+ decade old, information book written by a non-pilot is a solid reference when you have multiple high experience current instructors involved in the discussion?
We are now just a few months shy of four decades since the advent of the Hewett Skyting Infallible Weak Link.
User avatar
Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

Post by Tad Eareckson »

This one's so difficult to understand. Pretty safe rule is that we're not inventing new ways to kill - or seriously maim - ourselves. This:

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has several fatal precedents. It's just that since everyone and his dog fly with at least one GoPro at all times now and the guy miraculously survived and came out in pretty good shape that we have it on tape.

Ya read the Flight Park Mafia damage control releases without REALLY reading them and you come away with the impression that it was just a matter of some inexperienced bozo abruptly hopping in way over her head in choppy conditions and... Big surprise. But then ya go back to Kitty Hawk 1984/02/11-12 at the dawn of aerotowing. Scores of people lining up behind fast Cosmos tugs with their slow pitch-control-bitch gliders, pro toad, foot launch for AT One. There were ZERO launch incidents.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sw/13323834/
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That photo's posted 2005/05/10 - nineteen days prior to Holly's first pro toad AT launch and her Litesport's last flight ever.
- Dolly has a nonadjustable keel/tail support and I'm calling her nose pretty high.
- Easily reachable Wallaby release actuator securely velcroed to the starboard control tube pretty high up. Purple anodized brake lever.
- Red primary bridle - the one she won't be able to find a bit before noon on 2005/05/29 - stretched between her hands.
- Secondary bridle anchored at port shoulder tow loop.
- Easily reachable bent pin Bailey release anchored at starboard shoulder tow loop directly engaging free end of secondary bridle.

(As I recall when I was down there setting up for the demo on the U2 160 MY nose was high and Rob recommended switching to another cart. Told him I wasn't worried about it, he instantly dropped the suggestion, the launch was a total non issue. (Duh.))

We can't see - 'cause it's concealed in her right hand - but know that there's a Standard Aerotow Weak Link...
Holly for some reason chose to fly her Litesport, she has always towed it with proper releases and weak links and usually seeked advice from me when unsure of something.
...installed at the top/free end of the primary bridle. The reason there's no secondary weak link installed on the secondary bridle...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17404
Aerotow barrel release - straight or curved pin?
Jim Rooney - 2010/05/31 01:53:13 UTC

BTW, Steve Wendt is exceptionally knowledgeable. Hell, he's the one that signed off my instructor rating.
http://www.questairforce.com/aero.html
Aerotow FAQ
Quest Air Hang Gliding

Most flight parks use 130 lb. braided Dacron line, so that one loop (which is the equivalent to two strands) is about 260 lb. strong - about the average wing load of a single pilot on a typical glider. For tandems, either two loops (four strands) of the same line or one loop of a stronger line is usually used to compensate for nearly twice the wing loading. When attaching the weak link to the bridle, position the knot so that it's hidden from the main tension in the link and excluded altogether from the equation.
.
So 260 pounds seeing half the load - 520 pounds towline.

Now if you installed another weak link at the bottom end of the primary bridle...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27393
Pro towing: 1 barrel release + weak link or 2 barrel release
Juan Saa - 2012/10/18 01:19:49 UTC

The normal braking force in pounds for a weak link is around 180, at least that is the regular weak link line used at most aerotow operations. By adding a second weak link to your bridal you are cutting the load on each link by half, meaning that the weak link will not break at the intended 180 pounds but it will need about 360.
If that is what you use and is what your instructor approved then I have no business on interfering, i dont know if you are using the same weak link material but there shoul be only ONE weak link on a tow bridle for it to be effective in breaking before higher loads are put into you and the glider should the glider gets to an attitude or off track so much that the safety fuse of the link is needed to break you free from the tug.

I made the same mistake on putting two weak links thinking that I was adding protection to my setup and I was corrected by two instructors on separate occacions at Quest Air and at the Florida RIdge.
1040 pounds towline.
If you also put a secondary weak link on one end of the secondary bridle...
1560 pounds towline.
Both bridles with weak links at both ends...
2080 pounds.

Good thing we only have four ends with which to play. Keep going with a progression like that and pretty soon you have a Black Hole developing. (And it's a damn good thing we're limited to 130 pound Greenspot as our starting point. Just think where'd we'd be if we'd started with a Tad-O-Link.)

And I think by now it should be pretty fuckin' obvious why Tex didn't have a weak link on his end.
Joe Gregor - 2006/09

As a result of changing her bridle arrangement, the accident pilot had inadvertently removed the weak link from the system. After several oscillations, the glider locked out while still low. The tug pilot took action to release the towrope simultaneously with the failure of the Spectra® line.
So just 2000 pounds - the Spectra® line strength.

Holly's hanging from long glider and short harness suspension. She's flying 1.5 point.

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That IS the clinic for flying pro toad. She's logged HOURS on AT and - like everyone and his dog - she's shooting for good thermal / violent tow conditions. She's been kicked around on her Litesport flying 1.5.

Her nose is set high but that rapidly becomes a nonissue in virtually all circumstances a couple seconds after things start rolling. And she didn't come off the cart crooked and/or early.

Interesting to contemplate how Damage Control would've handled it if she had though. If she had it would've helped Steve dump on her. But it would've had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the pro toad bridle minus focal point of her safe towing system game plan and would've reflected poorly on Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt's training and certification program.

People DO lock out - rarely - just off the cart. Reasons:
- forcing the glider into the air prematurely
- strong crosswind
- something hangs up

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People DON'T oscillate just off the cart. You oscillate when you have tons of airspeed, overcorrect for a highish wing...

Within the first couple seconds of coming off the cart there's not much difference between flying properly trimmed and pro toad. The launches look and feel about the same until you've cleared the cart a few seconds ago and have to start stuffing the bar back towards your toes.

The way to come off the cart safely and efficiently... Stay pulled in until you feel you've developed crisp airspeed. Loosen up on the hold-downs a bit and nose up just enough to lift an inch off the brackets. Hold for a second and a half to verify that everything's OK. Lose the cart and go flying. (And people who have a clue what they're doing DON'T wheelie.)

Holly's a little bit nervous, stays on the cart a bit longer than usual. Maybe does the wheelie bullshit to be extra sure. Gets airborne with excess airspeed. Overcorrects for gawd knows what real or imagined issue. You overcorrect at high speed - 2.0, 1.5, 1.0 point it's easy to start oscillating and fairly difficult to stop if the tug doesn't (or can't) slow down.

Damage Control wants this to be entirely about the pro toad minus Standard Aerotow Weak Link bullshit. But we don't know for certain that this one wouldn't have happened anyway in normal 1.5 mode.

If you look at the pattern... The more extensive, detailed, verbose, pretentious, vacuous the reporting is the more and harder the Industry and its operatives are working to obscure the legitimate issues. And they'll try to get this shit out as quickly as they think they can manage in order to get the herd locked in sync with the party line. Both of Steve's top victims are textbook examples.

There were experienced ATers at launch and...

13-0605 - 14-0614
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...their eyes were all glued on that situation as it went to hell and they knew what they were seeing. And there are multiple reasons they're not being identified and we're not getting their accounts.
Steve Wendt, USHGA Instructor # 19528

I observed the accident from a few hundred yards away, but could clearly see launch and the aero tow was coming towards my area so that I had a full view of the flight.
OK then. We certainly don't need and wouldn't be able to learn anything from any other observers or witnesses. The detail you're providing us is certainly more than we could ever dream of having. How astoundingly fortunate we are to have had this account from such a highly qualified and totally disinterested observer.

And she didn't go up without those wheels so the basebar didn't hit the ground first and those wheels are the reason she survived. Notice we don't hear Scott or anyone else saying, "If only..." The Industry NEVER wants anyone to start pinging in on things that actually matter.

But, speaking of things that actually matter, this one in some respects doesn't much. As far as the mechanics of the crash are concerned... We know how to equip, operate, respond for AT launches.
Steve Wendt

Holly for some reason chose to fly her Litesport, she has always towed it with proper releases and weak links and usually seeked advice from me when unsure of something.
- Like what, Steve? What the lapse rate was forecasted to be at 13:00 local? What was the most easily reachable position on her control frame at which to securely velcro her two point bicycle brake lever release actuator? What a proper weak link was and what it was supposed to be doing for her? That you've GOT to hook in - PERIOD? Name ONE THING of any significance that someone with a Litesport and fifty ATs under her belt and your signature on all her ratings should be unsure of and usually seeking advice from you about.

- She was usually seeking advice from you when unsure of something but she had no fuckin' clue that she couldn't hook up pro toad until after successfully completing your short regularly scheduled clinic and, if we thought it a possibility, flying pro toad under supervised conditions in evening air.

- Doesn't it get a bit tedious answering all these frequently asked questions from flyers whom you've rated for AT? Why don't you just put this stuff up on your website?

http://www.wallaby.com/aerotow_primer.php
Aerotow Primer for Experienced Pilots
The Wallaby Ranch Aerotowing Primer for Experienced Pilots - 2020/09/04

A weak link connects the V-pull to the release, providing a safe limit on the tow force. If you fail to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon), the weak link will break before you can get into too much trouble.
Then she'd have known that one needed:
-- a Blue Sky AT-PT signoff to hook up pro toad
-- to install a proper weak link in her former secondary / now pro toad bridle/release configuration
-- a qualified crewman at launch to check her out and signal the tug that she was good to go

If you'd bothered to have done that she wouldn't have totaled her glider, two thirds totaled herself, prematurely ended everybody's Memorial Day weekend / Steve Wendt Instructor of the Year celebration fly-in before anybody had a shot at a soaring flight.

- If you and your colleagues at Kitty Hawk, Quest, Wallaby, Florida Ridge, Lookout, Ridgely are doing your jobs right then Holly should be exactly the same advice from any AT rated pilot with a couple dozen tows under his belt. If you're not you and your products are incompetent and she should be doing at least as well breaking open fortune cookies. And that is in fact the case.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=587
Holly's Accident
Ralph Sickinger - 2005/05/29 23:22:09 UTC

Apparently, Holly got locked out around 50' off the ground, while flying her Litesport. The line broke, and while still in the process of recovering, she impacted the ground.
http://www.ozreport.com/9.133
Lesson from an aerotow accident report
Steve Wendt - 2005/06/01
USHGA Instructor # 19528

Holly immediately had control problems right off the dolly and completed 3 oscilations before it took her 90 degrees from the tow vehicle upon when the tug pilot hit the release and Holly continued turning away from the tow in a fairly violent exchange of force .
http://www.ozreport.com/9.133
Lesson from an aerotow accident report
Steve Straub / Davis Wendt - 2005/06/23 02:00 UTC

Eighth, without a weaklink the tug pilot had to release her, but too late when she was already in a too dangerous condition, but when she was endangering the tug pilot.
Joe Gregor - 2006/09

"Based on the other pilots' reports, my glider ended up perpendicular to the tug's flight path and the Spectra® tow line snapped."
...
The tug pilot took action to release the towrope simultaneously with the failure of the Spectra® line.
Jesus H. Christ.

AT towlines NEVER break.

This glider wasn't locking out. It was OSCILLATING. Oscillations have ZILCH effect on tug control. Even severe lockouts...

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tend to have negligible effects on tugs.

The front end weak link blew. Even at Blue Sky they're not so incompetent as to fly without a front end weak link. At Lockout they don't have weak links on their tandems but they DO on the top end of their Dragonfly tow bridles.

This was a DEVASTATING impact and all the people on site were traumatized by what they were seeing and dealing with. And now that I think about it... First tow of the day... There were probably a fair number of folk - in addition to the several we know were assisting at launch - watching this one. There's a reason none of them have never posted anything about it.

The back end of the towline's still connected to Holly's Blue Sky pro toad bridle but nobody's paying any attention to the upwind end. What's left of Holly is within fifteen minutes which seem like fifteen hours scooped up and hauled away in the ambulance.

Steve knows that within the next six weeks he may be sued out of existence and looking at negligent homicide charges. Think back to the police response at the Bill Bennett / Mike Del Signore double inconvenience fatality crash at Gates Field. This is NOT a STRETCH. His walnut sized brain is in overdrive working on damage control and cover stories. Let's get control of what critical evidence we can while we can. He recovers the towline working his way upwind from what's left of Holly's harness.

Holly hadn't installed a weak link at the other end of her pro toad bridle. HALLELUJAH! Good shot at a Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free card. But then we can't have people starting thinking about the front end weak link. Under u$hPa SOPs of the day:
The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc. - 2006/10
104 PILOT PROFICIENCY SYSTEM
11. USHPA HANG GLIDING AERO TOW RATINGS
02. USHPA Aero Vehicle Requirements
-E. A weak link must be placed at both ends of the tow line. The weak link at the glider end must have a breaking strength that will break before the towline tension exceeds twice the weight of the hang glider pilot and glider combination. The weak link at the tow plane end of the towline should break with a towline tension approximately 100lbs. greater than the glider end.
Holly was supposed to be flying with a Flight Park Mafia Standard Aerotow Weak Link at 260 pounds towline and the front end was supposed to blow at 360 - a little over one G for a heavy solo.

And under the FAA regs at the time that nobody told us about she'd have been in the lower end of the legal range and the front end couldn't exceed 325. BIG PROBLEM. That loop of fishing line could've been the key to demolishing that operation and its operators. (No, she hadn't installed a weak link at her end but, for the purpose of the exercise, that didn't matter in the least.) Not to mention u$hPa itself - which 2015/03/27 Jean Lake actually did to no small extent.

The line broke.
The tug pilot made a good decision in the interest of her safety and:
- there was a fairly violent exchange of force.
- his own safety at a point after all other options had been exhausted.
The Spectra® tow line snapped as it had to when the glider was running perpendicular to the intended flight path. Neither the Pilot In Command nor the focal point of his safe towing system had any say in the matter. But it sure is a good thing the Spectra® tow line was a bit worn and blew when it did. Another quarter second and his passenger would've been total toast.

This bullshit's been bugging the hell outta me for a decade and a half. GOT IT. That's EXACTLY what was going on.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17404
Aerotow barrel release - straight or curved pin?
Holger Selover-Stephan - 2010/05/28 22:16:33 UTC

I ordered and received a few barrel releases from Blue Sky. They have straight pins, not the curved ones I'm used to. Steve at Blue Sky tells me this:
...they [the curved pins] don't release with as little tension on them as the straight pins. Otherwise, there is no difference. It makes it hard to put just a rope on the barrel end, which encourages a weak link. Just a good idea. That's why we've been shifting that way, as are many other manufacturers of these releases.
Anybody got an opinion on this matter? Thanks!

Image
Gawd I hate these motherfuckers.
User avatar
Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2700
Hook-In Check at Pulpit Fly-In
Scott Wilkinson - 2007/09/15 12:50:17 UTC

I just saw this news...and am really saddened to hear Bill's kids are doing this. I knew Bill well, and he'd be the first person to say "My bad" and would be horrified if he knew what they're doing.

Having said that, I was the one back after the accident who was expressing disbelief that nobody at launch that day even bothered to so much as *look* at Bill's hang straps, much less ask for a hang check.

So...while I completely agree that we should all be responsible for our own actions, saying that doesn't absolve the rest of us from keeping an eye on each other!
Scott Wilkinson - 2007/09/15 12:52:11 UTC

PS - In my previous statement, I'm by NO means supporting the lawsuit---being a good friend and fellow pilot (and keeping an eye on each other) should NOT make any of us (individually or collectively) legally culpable.

Just wanted to make that clear!
I just saw this news...and am really saddened to hear Bill's kids are doing this. I knew Bill well, and he'd be the first person to say "My bad" and would be horrified if he knew what they're doing.
Yeah? So do we really want to use the guy who just killed himself in a spectacularly unsuccessful effort to engage in the sport of hang gliding as a model for how the relevant issue should be responded to? And if he'd been heard saying "My bad" as he'd separated from his glider how much good would that have done us to prevent the next one?

The next one, by the way is gonna be:

Image

(The one on the left, lest there be any doubt. (Although the one on the right will be up at the Mingus launch screaming as the next installment of this horror show unfolds.)) That's gonna happen three years minus a month after Bill and the responses to it are gonna be just as totally useless as the ones to Bill's have been.
Having said that, I was the one back after the accident who was expressing disbelief that nobody at launch that day even bothered to so much as *look* at Bill's hang straps...
Stay with that.
...much less ask for a hang check.
MUCH LESS ask for a HANG CHECK? Is that the only procedure you assholes are capable of using to verify whether or not someone's connected to a hang glider? What's wrong with the Aussie Method? If somebody's suited up in his harness he's safely connected to a glider somewhere.

The hang check isn't the solution - it's the problem.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1153
Hooking In
Steve Kinsley - 2005/10/02 02:45:48 UTC

I already see where the anger and grief take us. We need to do hang checks, double hang checks. And who was on Bill's wire crew? How could they let that happen?

When Bob Gillisse got hurt I suggested that our local institution of the hang check is more the problem than the solution. I still believe that. It subverts the pilot's responsibility to perform a hook-in check. I often do not see pilots doing a hook in check. Why should they? They just did a hang check and they are surrounded by friends who will make sure this box is checked.

But what if there is no hang check and you are used to one?

DO A HOOK IN CHECK. You need a system that you do every time regardless of how many hang checks you have been subjected to that assures you are hooked in.
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1167
The way it outa be
Steve Kinsley - 2005/10/04 14:04:25 UTC

One last attempt.

We have now rounded up all the usual suspects and promised renewed vigilance, nine page checklists, hang checks every six feet, etc. Bob Gillisse redux.

A hang check is part of preflighting your equipment. You do it in the setup area - not on the launch or the ramp. When you get in line you are hooked in and ready to go. No going down for a hang check cum hook-in check.
There were thirty assholes at Whitwell that day between setup and the edge of the cliff who wanted to know if Bill had done or reminded him that he needed to do a hang check. There were zero individuals who looked at his suspension to verify that he was hooked in.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1152
Bill Priday's death
Cragin Shelton - 2005/10/03 15:13:27 UTC

I just read the following item from the OzForum by a secondary on-site (not witness) report:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=924
Tragedy at Team Challenge
Hexenwolfe - 2005/10/02 14:19:48 UTC

According to at least five local pilots, Bill had set up his glider and was moving it closer to launch. Again, according to at least five pilots, Bill was asked if he wanted a hang check, but was heard to say "It has been taken care of".
This is eerie, because Hank Hengst and I were involved with an almost identical conversation with Bill at the Pulpit Fly-In. As we were walking Bill up to the old ramp, with me on right wing and Hank on nose, Hank asked bill if he wanted a hang check. Bill's reply was something like, "No thanks, I'm good." Hank then pointed out that he was not hooked in. I remarked that 'you are not hooked in until after the hang check.' We ran Bill through a routine lay-down hang check at the back of the ramp, and he had a fine launch.
Problem solved. If you've had a hang check you're hooked in. If you've made sure your Glock's unloaded there's no chance anything bad can happen if you aim it at someone's head and pull the trigger.
So...while I completely agree that we should all be responsible for our own actions...
...and none of our instructors should ever be the least bit responsible for anything under any circumstances...
...saying that doesn't absolve the rest of us from keeping an eye on each other!
- Didn't Steve get paid by Holly and Bill to train and certify them how to operate safely in the environments in which the former was two thirds and the latter was twelve thirds killed? How much worse off would those two have been if they'd gone to those levels with zero formal instruction? Yeah, WE should all be responsible for OUR own actions but WE aren't INSTRUCTORS. (Anybody notice that Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt and Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney can't be bothered to participate in these discussions? That there is ZERO participation from active instructors - unless you wanna count...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=587
Holly's Accident
Marc Fink - 2005/05/30 11:20:20 UTC

So sorry to hear about Holly's accident--it may not provide much comfort--but it sounds like it could have been alot worse so we all have that to thank for. Wishing her a speedy recovery,
...that scummy little piece o' shit as an instructor and that full-and-speedy-recovery crap as participation.

The motherfucker's paid-for actions were to train Holly and Bill how to operate safely and he failed. Hold him accountable. Why do Steve Parson and Jon Orders get felony convictions for not teaching their discovery flight students how to launch while connected to the glider while Steve gets a total free pass 'cause his victims were remote? Good thing Steve got a u$hPa Instructor of the Year Award. Just imagine the carnage we'd have amongst his products otherwise. (Notice Steve never felt any inclination to decline/return his Instructor of the Year Award. Oh well, that was for 2005.)

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1166
Thoughts on responsibility...
Scott Wilkinson - 2005/10/05 14:10:56 UTC

We visited Steve Wendt yesterday, who was visibly choked up over Bill's death. For Steve, it all comes down to one thing: you've got to hook in. Period.
OK then. Problem solved. Period. NEXT! That's not what the SOP says and that doesn't work. It's ten miles south of totally useless.

- How much of "each other" do we need to keep an eye on? At a foot launch site what do we need to be looking at that might make a critical difference?

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The bridle's routed over the control bar. By this point Sean has had sixteen seconds since commencement of roll to notice the problem and do something about it. Even at this point he may be able to freewheel the winch and come out OK enough to give it another shot. In Bill's situation the instant he started moving forward it was too late and the chances of survival were near zero. Name something else that critical. A sidewire maybe - another issue that has an extremely simple solution that nobody will ever implement - but how often does that happen?

When I'm in the vicinity of a ramp there's only one issue I'm paying attention to at least 95 percent of the time. What are you checking, Scott? Chest buckles? Chin strap? VG setting? All the battens properly secured?
PS - In my previous statement, I'm by NO means supporting the lawsuit---being a good friend and fellow pilot (and keeping an eye on each other) should NOT make any of us (individually or collectively) legally culpable.
- Nah, let's leave it at individual and/or collective moral culpability. Like when Holly two thirds bought it at Steve's operation a tiny bit over four months prior to Bill and told everybody everything was entirely her fault, the tug driver and all the crewmen and other witnesses to the incident came forward with their perspectives and observations so we could get a real solid understanding of this issues. From this we learned that the:
-- line broke
-- Spectra® tow line snapped
-- tug pilot
--- hit the release
--- HAD to release her when she was endangering the tug pilot (but not herself)
--- took action to release the towrope simultaneously with the failure of the Spectra® line
and there was no front end weak link.

And with this level of thoroughness and detail we're free to draw an almost limitless range of conclusions about this near fatal in which nobody other than Holly did anything wrong and there was nothing anybody but Holly could've done any better. And this fits almost perfectly into the pattern we see in other incident reports so its validity isn't the least bit in question by anybody. So as long as none of us are anywhere near as stupid and incompetent as Holly was...

- Fine. Then eliminate the fuckin' Safety Director/Committee. If they're gonna dictate what people can and can't do...

http://http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21868
Don't Forget your Hang Check!
Eric Hinrichs - 2011/05/13 21:31:06 UTC

I went to Chelan for the Nationals in '95 as a free flyer. They were requiring everyone to use the Australian method, and you were also not allowed to carry a glider without being hooked in.

This was different for me, I hook in and do a full hang check just behind launch right before I go. I was also taught to do a hooked in check right before starting my run, lifting or letting the wind lift the glider to feel the tug of the leg loops.

So I used their method and I'm hooked in, carrying my glider to launch and someone yells "Dust devil!" Everyone around runs for their gliders (most of which are tied down) and I'm left standing alone in the middle of the butte with a huge monster wandering around. I heard later that it was well over three hundred feet tall, and some saw lightning at the top. After that it was clear that no one is going to decide for me or deride me for my own safety methods, someone else's could have easily got me killed.
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...then they need to be held accountable for shit they implement and fail to enforce.

You'll notice that on Bill's last successful mountain launch - at McConnellsburg, site of Bob Gillisse's 1998/01/10 devastating unhooked launch - that he was successfully intercepted by one of two volunteer wire crewmen. (And that the one who remarked that 'you are not hooked in until after the hang check.' was not the one who made the catch.)

In theory there are supposed to be national rating systems which qualify pilots for various launch flavors and conditions. The way things are supposed to work is that you show up at a controlled site and flash a card that says you're good for that site in current conditions. If we need a Safety Committee on top of that then the rating system is total crap (which, in fact, it is) and nobody should be taking any responsibility for anything.

Davis and his fellow stupid incompetent Flight Park Mafia thugs establish themselves as Safety Committee AT launched comps (which are pretty much all comps) and mandate use of the shoddy illegal lethal crap they sell and supply. At the ECC on 2014/06/02 they used John Claytor's neck breaking, career ending crosswind launch lockout as their input to scrub the day.

And now that I think of it...
John Claytor - Virginia - 67393 - H4 - 2007/01/08 - Steve Wendt - AT FL PL ST RLF TUR XC - Wills Wing Talon 160
Two Steve Wendt products scrub event days at two adjacent AT ops nine years plus four days apart. And Bill Priday at Whitwell in between way on the low end. Keep up the great work.
Just wanted to make that clear!
Got it. The running of this event sucked so bad that one hundred percent of the Day One launches went off unhooked and got fatally splattered but none of hierarchy from Bill's instructor and the meet officials on up through u$hPa top brass should really be held accountable for anything. And they and we should all keep on doing everything the way we always have and expect better results.
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Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: Quest Air 2018 - state of the art AT

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2700
Hook-In Check at Pulpit Fly-In
Holly Korzilius - 2007/09/15 13:21:45 UTC

Willing to testify on USHPA's Behalf

As someone who almost killed myself in this sport, I am the first to admit that my accident was wholly my fault and I would be happy to state as much in a court of law in the Bill Priday case. Could someone have said to me, "Holly, I think you're about to make some bad decisions for this flight," .. absolutely, but it was MY decision to launch and, therefore, the results of my decision were MY responsibility. Again, who was responsible for my accident and my injuries?

ME!
ME!
ME!

Okay, repeat after me:

It is my choice to fly and, therefore the consequences of my choice are MY responsibility.

Bill was a good friend and its unfortunate that he is no longer part of this reality, but his family's choice to pursue monetary compensation for the loss of someone upon which they were no longer financial dependent and how was a voluntary participant in a sport about which he knew the risks is a lousy decision, in my opinion.

Regards,
Holly (wanna see my CT scans and dental panoramic?)
Willing to testify on USHPA's Behalf
Yeah Holly, you do that. And here's what you're gonna get:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27736
Increase in our USHpA dues
Mark G. Forbes - 2012/12/20 06:21:33 UTC

There are also numerous legal issues associated with accident reports, which we're still wrestling with. It's a trade-off between informing our members so they can avoid those kinds of accidents in the future, and exposing ourselves to even more lawsuits by giving plaintiff's attorneys more ammunition to shoot at us.

Imagine a report that concludes, "If we'd had a procedure "x" in place, then it would have probably prevented this accident. And we're going to put that procedure in place at the next BOD meeting." Good info, and what we want to be able to convey. But what comes out at trial is, "Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, my client suffered injury because USHPA knew or should have known that a safety procedure was not in place, and was therefore negligent and at fault." We're constantly walking this line between full disclosure and handing out nooses at the hangmen's convention.
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But that's not gonna be any (more) skin off of your nose 'cause that was 2015/03/27 and you'll have slipped off of the radar 2008/04/24 19:36:47 UTC - over a month under three years subsequent to impact. And Scott will follow 2010/10/28 10:02:55 UTC. And - after reviewing the traffic - it doesn't look like either one of you ever got back into anything at any level worth mentioning. That's what this kinda shit does to people. After Chad got killed a little shy of eight hundred miles away down at Quest flying wasn't any fun for me for a long time. I had to make myself do it.
Wills Wing / Blue Sky / Steve Wendt / Ryan Voight Productions - 2007/03As someone who almost killed myself in this sport I am the first to admit that my accident was wholly my fault...
- Oh yeah? The launch ramp at Manquin faces a bit over seven degrees east of north, is about 1750 feet long, and drops from 57 to 51 feet MSL. That's a slope of about 290 to one (and good luck clearing the trees after you cross the road). Is that safely under your Litesport's glide ratio? Or was this a tow flight and was there somebody else involved responsible for supplying, maintaining, regulating your power and determining the direction of your flight?

- How do you know? You were the best witness to the relevant events and your memory got totally wiped from a point sometime prior to when you started rolling until two weeks afterwards.

- Sounds like you're saying that someone on the far end of the rope can have no credit or blame regarding the safety of the flight. If you are - and you are - you're a massively incompetent pilot and any testimony you would give in court would be torn to shreds by a halfway competent attorney with the aid of a competent pilot expert witness. (That would be Yours Truly. (Think ACA / Shannon Hamby (although I'm a bit queasy thinking of myself as the counterpart to Bob.)))

- Why are the tug and its driver never identified in any of the reports? Since they're not it's a reasonably safe bet that the tug was a Dragonfly. Let's hear what the greatest ever tug pilot in the world history of hang glider aerotowing has to say on the subject...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question
Jim Rooney - 2008/11/24 05:18:15 UTC

Well, I'm assuming there was some guff about the tug pilot's right of refusal?
Gee, didn't think we'd have to delve into "pilot in command"... I figured that one's pretty well understood in a flying community.

It's quite simple.
The tug is a certified aircraft... the glider is an unpowered ultralight vehicle. The tug pilot is the pilot in command. You are a passenger. You have the same rights and responsibilities as a skydiver.
It's a bitter pill I'm sure, but there you have it.

BTW, if you think I'm just spouting theory here, I've personally refused to tow a flight park owner over this very issue. I didn't want to clash, but I wasn't towing him. Yup, he wanted to tow with a doubled up weaklink. He eventually towed (behind me) with a single and sorry to disappoint any drama mongers, we're still friends. And lone gun crazy Rooney? Ten other tow pilots turned him down that day for the same reason.
According to him you're a skydiver with ZERO responsibility for the tow. Your Pilot In Command kicked you off the plane at a hundred feet - too low for your parachute to fully inflate.
Wills Wing / Blue Sky / Steve Wendt / Ryan Voight Productions - 2007/03

NEVER CUT THE POWER...

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You've shortly before dropped off the wire but Scott's still around and participating in this discussion. If you're so willing to see proper justice done then how come you're not weighing in and setting Rooney straight on this one in such no uncertain terms?

Towing is ALWAYS a pilot/copilot situation and you need competent people at both ends of the rope. For a surface tow the upwind end guy ALWAYS has more control over the tow than downwind end guy. And for aero and assuming the back end guy has solid Two level proficiency - which he/she is REQUIRED to - the situations in which this is not the case are so rare and fringe as to not be worth mentioning. But our jobs are first to keep ourselves safe and second to keep the other guy safe. And if we're doing one we're pretty much automatically doing the other.

And the only reason a tug should EVER dump a glider would be a power or control (think Keavy Nenninger) failure on takeoff. Those assholes put you up on a total shit excuse for a release (ditto for a bridle) which should never have left the ground and you were doing OK until Tex dumped you. And if that's not the case then how come there's never been a whisper of a comment from Tex even telling us what happened on his end?

http://ozreport.com/20.102
The Quest Air Open Part 2
Davis Straub - 2016/05/22 02:26:08 UTC

Today we experienced a fatal aerotowing accident when a fellow pilot locked out very soon after coming off the cart. He plowed head first straight into the ground from too high right in front of us.

Fausto Arcos who was in the front of the launch line just in front of me watched the whole thing and said it was a "classic" progressive lockout. The pilot needed to release much earlier before it became non-recoverable.

The pilot's weak link broke at apparently the same time as tug pilot gave him the rope. The tug pilot gave the hang glider pilot the rope because the hang glider pilot's glider was pulling the tow plane's tail to the east forcing the tug toward trees that the tug with this drag would not be able to get above. All of the hang glider's undersurface was visible in the tug pilot's mirror.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=48425
Oregon flying on the edge
Davis Straub - 2016/07/14 02:50:47 UTC

EMT speculated that he was reaching for his camera as it slipped out of a pocket.
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All that makes perfect sense. Short runway, pro toad, easily reachable release (à la Holly), Tad-O-Link, doomed himself by taking his hand off the control bar for half a second, the glider was taking the tug (April Mackin) down with it.

We know you were going up pro toad for the first time on an easily reachable bent pin piece o' shit excuse for a release that would've been 100.00 percent useless in any emergency situation and that you were oscillating. I'm gonna say that oscillation and lockout are mutually exclusive conditions - it's impossible for one to progress/degrade to the other.

You were still smelling like a rose before you lost the tug and Steve and Davis are both lying like rugs as to how that came about.
...and I would be happy to state as much in a court of law in the Bill Priday case.
And what better qualified expert witness could u$hPa have testifying about what a stellar job u$hPa does in qualifying pilots for various operating environments. (Better get there a half hour early. There might be a problem at the metal detector.)
Could someone have said to me, "Holly, I think you're about to make some bad decisions for this flight," ..
- Why do you think no one did? Steve had staffed the launch with unidentified individuals he considered qualified, you discussed the issue with other AT guys who were undoubtedly Blue Sky products to some extent or other, Steve said he could clearly see what you were doing and made zero effort to hit the pause button. If this had been considered an actual issue Steve would've made goddam sure that nobody got hooked up pro toad without being qualified by an experienced AT instructor - like Zack Marzec - to do it safely.

- You said "bad decisions" - plural. What else that we haven't heard about?
...absolutely, but it was MY decision to launch...
No it wasn't. You weren't going anywhere without launch crew OK and Tex's foot on the gas. At this stage you really are not much more than a passenger. You don't start becoming a pilot until your keel lifts out of the support.
...and, therefore, the results of my decision were MY responsibility.
And not a single dust particle's worth of anyone else's. So then I guess you're OK with some Hang 1.5 showing up from Kitty Hawk with a Sport 2 and plopping himself on a cart pro toad with a Tad-O-Link.
Again, who was responsible for my accident and my injuries?

ME!
ME!
ME!
And everybody on up from your crew to Tim Herr and the Director of the FAA.
Okay, repeat after me:
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 17:34:33 UTC

Remember, a weak link improves safety.
Say it over and over and over in your head until it sinks in.
We already have enough cheerleaders in the sport, thank you very much Holly.
It is my choice to fly and, therefore the consequences of my choice are MY responsibility.
How 'bout Tomas Banevicius and Nancy Tachibana? Is there anywhere we draw a line? Any gray area anywhere?
Bill was a good friend and its unfortunate that he is no longer part of this reality...
He's still part of my reality. So's Frank Sauber.
...but his family's choice to pursue monetary compensation for the loss of someone upon which they were no longer financial dependent and how was a voluntary participant in a sport about which he knew the risks is a lousy decision, in my opinion.
- Oh. So your position is somewhat dependent the economic station of the family. Why?

- How 'bout criminal prosecution? Eleni Zeri and Lenami Godinez-Avila both signed waivers stating that they understood the risks and their choices where THEIR responsibilities but both of their discovery flight instructors now have felony manslaughter convictions. And I'm not hearing any pillars of the hang gliding community - like Steve Wendt and Jim Rooney - starting petitions to have them exonerated.

- I'm not a big fan of opinions in this sport.

- The lawyers who took that one were absolute total morons. But they SHOULD have gone after the meet heads, Steve, and u$hPa. Let's go after Matt, too. All the meet heads were all Lockout products. The legal system was never much of a threat to hang gliding. The biggest threat to hang gliding has always been u$hPa and the sport is going extinct due to their tactics to shield themselves from accountability.
Regards,
Holly (wanna see my CT scans and dental panoramic?)
Sure, why not? Wanna see what's left of the little kid they pulled out from underneath the wreckage of this glider:

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and tell us all about responsibility and what should've been done to have prevented that from happening? I guess if there were any half decent answers we'd have already heard them from your ace towing instructor at Manquin.

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Keep up the great work, Steve. And keep making sure never to go on the record anywhere in which you can be quoted and engaged. You saw what we did to Rooney.
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