You are NEVER hooked in.

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

But of course nothing about THIS:

004-02905
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4897/32213470928_7672c6f166_o.png
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is overly complex; excessive in number of parts, heads, legs, arms, straps, strings, carabiners; Rube Goldberg. And perish the thought that we should count the mountain, access road, retrieval vehicle and driver, ramp, wind coming in at an acceptable range of direction and speed as components. Setting up and breaking down the glider for each launch and landing cycle - mere inconvenience, nothing more burdensome than a weak link increasing the safety of the towing operation.

Most folk understand that fear is the foundation of any strategy to prevent an unhooked launch. And a couple dozen understand that it's critical to max out the fear to and through the point of commitment. But in the bullshit we're seeing in situations like this one the guy running show has gotta share that fear with what's involved in getting the glider accelerated and airborne.

Interlaken isn't advising Chris to "Run!" half a dozen times in the space of about a second and a half 'cause he's confident that his passenger won't suddenly stop functioning as an engine and revert to functioning as a passenger.

And also - speaking of passengers...

Ya know how before the passenger jet starts moving a member of the crew shows everybody how to safely secure himself to the plane so's nobody gets his fuckin' neck broken if something really bad happens after the plane starts moving? And somebody goes around and checks that everybody's connected before the plane starts moving? And that the likelihood of the average traveler ever actually NEEDING to be securely connected is pretty much zilch?

Yet in tandem hang gliding in which the seatbelt light is always on from before takeoff until after we've rolled to a stop on the runway and failure to connect ALWAYS results in something really bad happening pretty much instantly there's NOTHING that's being done that's the least bit analogous to what every passenger plane on the planet does four times a day.

Somebody find me some video evidence of the passenger/"student" being involved in the process.

http://www.hangglidinginterlaken.com/faqs
Frequently asked Questions - Hang Gliding Interlaken
What is required of me?
You have to take 4 - 8 running steps alongside your pilot on the take-off, that's about all!
Goddam fuckin' right. Perish the thought that we should multitask for 45 seconds while we're setting up the glider, alert the guy to this horrendous danger, assign him the task of effecting and checking both connections, double the number of pairs of eyes verifying that things are good to go before and after arriving at launch position.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question
Jim Rooney - 2008/11/24 05:18:15 UTC

Well, I'm assuming there was some guff about the tug pilot's right of refusal?
Gee, didn't think we'd have to delve into "pilot in command"... I figured that one's pretty well understood in a flying community.

It's quite simple.
The tug is a certified aircraft... the glider is an unpowered ultralight vehicle. The tug pilot is the pilot in command. You are a passenger. You have the same rights and responsibilities as a skydiver.
It's a bitter pill I'm sure, but there you have it.
The Press - 2006/03/15

The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) is urgently pushing for new hang-gliding industry standards after learning a hang-gliding pilot who suffered serious injuries in a crash three weeks ago had not clipped himself on to the glider.

Extreme Air tandem gliding pilot James (Jim) Rooney safely clipped his passenger into the glider before departing from the Coronet Peak launch site, near Queenstown, CAA sports and recreation manager Rex Kenny said yesterday.

However, he took off without attaching himself.

In a video, he was seen to hold on to the glider for about fifty meters before hitting power lines.

Rooney and the passenger fell about fifteen meters to the ground.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 21:40:25 UTC

See, the thing is... "we", the people that work at and run aerotow parks, have a long track record.
This stuff isn't new, and has been slowly refined over decades.
We have done quite literally hundreds of thousands of tows.
We know what we're doing.

Sure "there's always room for improvement", but you have to realize the depth of experience you're dealing with here.
There isn't going to be some "oh gee, why didn't I think of that?" moment. The obvious answers have already been explored... at length.

Anyway...
Weaklink material... exactly what Davis said.

It's no mystery.
It's only a mystery why people choose to reinvent the wheel when we've got a proven system that works.
08-19
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5277/30076449505_1f6ed2f804_o.png
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All you hafta do is take four to eight running steps alongside YOUR PILOT on the take-off. Leave everything else to us. We know what we're doing. And of course we'll take the selfie of you...

http://misshappyfeet.blogspot.com/2016/10/hang-gliding-in-interlaken.html
Image
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4857/44285690050_cdfba8826a_o.png

...pretending to fly like a bird (while we continue to do all the actual flying).
Image

Factory tandem thrill rides for bucket listers. Process them through the system as quickly and efficiently as possible. Next...
If you like you can take control for a bit (not at all required).
Not at all REQUIRED though. And there's no evidence of this actually happening anywhere in the photos and videos from your site.

And you just got a guy what we'd consider pretty badly injured if we weren't looking at the potential for the situation.

And your reputation? What are ya gonna do? Implement better procedures that nobody's ever thought of before? They hafta be better procedures that nobody's ever thought of before or you'll be pressed to explain why you hadn't implemented them before. Nah, just keep on doing what you've been doing for the better part of two decades. The results have always been good enough.

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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=36274
Terrifying tandem--failure to hook in passenger--Swizerland
Dave Pendzick - 2018/11/29 19:13:19 UTC

I don't think it is constructive to chalk this up to carelessness. This is a mistake that every one of us is capable of making. All it takes is one distraction at the right time in the sequence & it can happen. There has not been any commentary regarding what distraction led to this situation. The tandem passenger does not give any indication of the events leading up to the situation, & neither does the media reports. I would really like to know exactly what transpired, what thing was out of the ordinary? What pattern was flawed?

I think carelessness is a poor choice in explanation of this incident. Now if he was high & drunk & forgot to hook in his tandem student, well then we could chalk it up to carelessness. I doubt that is the case.
I don't think it is constructive to chalk this up to carelessness.
Nah, what it SHOULD be chalked up to is massive global incompetence, negligence, corruption at the highest levels of the sport.
This is a mistake that every one of us is capable of making.
I'm not, motherfucker. 'Cause I'm ALWAYS scared shitless I'm about to make it at the moment of every commitment.
All it takes is one distraction at the right time in the sequence & it can happen.
Bull fucking shit.
Rob Kells - 2005/12

Each of us agrees that it is not a particular method, but rather the fear of launching unhooked that makes us diligent to be sure we are hooked in every time before starting the launch run.
If you always have the fear it can't happen. And setting up and launching a glider is always one giant distraction so it's totally moronic to try to eliminate or manage them.
There has not been any commentary regarding what distraction led to this situation.
See above.
The tandem passenger does not give any indication of the events leading up to the situation, & neither does the media reports.
Lemme give it a go... The motherfucker never once performed anything remotely resembling a hook-in check in the course of his fifteen year career.
I would really like to know exactly what transpired, what thing was out of the ordinary?
Nothing. That was the problem.
What pattern was flawed?
Yeah. The fuckin' gun was actually loaded this time so he didn't get away with assuming it wasn't.

Or maybe we can get Ryan Instant-Hands-Free-Release Voight to come back, wade into this, spew a bit more of his...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26996
Critique my radial ramp launch
Ryan Voight - 2012/08/28 06:14:06 UTC

What USHPA reg are you referencing specifically?

And no, in a thread titled "Critique my radial ramp launch" that video is also pretty much entirely off topic.

You want to discuss/debate/dictate people's pre-launch habits, great, just don't hijack someone else's thread about radial ramp technique.

Since this video starts with him on launch, we don't know if he did a hook-in check already, a hang check, a preflight, took a pee before putting his harness on, or drove a hybrid car to launch... Why are you critiquing what you don't know, didn't see, didn't ask about, and isn't what he asked for critique on??? WTF?
...trademark moronic bullshit.
I think carelessness is a poor choice in explanation of this incident.
Let's go for core level incompetence instead.
Now if he was high & drunk & forgot to hook in his tandem student, well then we could chalk it up to carelessness.
I could be high and drunk and it would have no bearing on my propensity to execute or oversee a launch at which anyone was unhooked.
I doubt that is the case.
It obviously wasn't. He executed the launch itself just fine and should probably get a gold star pasted on his forehead for handling the disaster he created. But he launched under the assumption that both carabiners were properly and securely connected. You're obviously never gonna listen to me or anyone who endorses what I'm saying so why don't you tell us what your solution is? I'm guessing it's something along the lines of shit just happens once in a while and there's nothing anybody can really do about it.

By the way... If "Swizerland" is the best you assholes can do in topic title none of you should ever even consider getting a glider more than three feet over a shallow slope of soft beach sand.

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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=36274
Terrifying tandem--failure to hook in passenger--Swizerland
maximilionalpha - 2018/11/29 23:07:21 UTC

He mentioned that he and his wife were both doing tandems and that she and another instructor went just ahead of him. He also mentions that he was super excited at watching her perfect launch, that next he and his pilot/instructor, climbed into their harnesses and began practicing how they would run to get liftoff and then, the rest almost became history.
He mentioned that he and his wife were both doing tandems and that she and another instructor went just ahead of him.
Also, of course, without doing any pretense of a hook-in check. 'Cause if they had this would've been mentioned. Well, it wouldn't actually 'cause if they'd done one - as a matter of routine - this incident would never have happened.
He also mentions that he was super excited at watching her perfect launch...
Notice the way nobody ever gets excited at watching a perfect platform or dolly launch?
...that next he and his pilot/instructor...
Perpetrator.
...climbed into their harnesses and began practicing how they would run to get liftoff...
Remember what I was saying about fear distribution/allotment two posts back?
...and then the rest almost became history.
The rest DID become history. This one's the Spanish Flu of viral videos. I think it's blown Jon Orders / Lenami Godinez-Avila and Kelly Harrison / Arys Moorhead totally out of the water. But only because those other two camera cards got swallowed (literally and for all intents and purposes respectively.)

Note that Mike End-Of-Story Bomstad has posted on The Davis Show - 2018/11/29 17:28:59 UTC and 2018/11/29 20:05:28 UTC - concerning a fatal paraglider tandem thrill ride failed carabiner incident.

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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57742
Not attached
Alan Deikman - 2018/11/28 06:10:29 UTC

A few years back wasn't there a similar incident?
Yes. About six and a half.
In Canada I think.
Ya think?
In that case the woman passenger fell to her death and the pilot tried to eat the memory card from the camera.
No. The pilot was totally successful in eating the memory card from the camera. And after he sat around in a jail cell for the better part of a week the cops were totally successful in recovering it.
That's all I remember.
Incredible.
I'm not a tandem pilot but the thought of the possibility of this sort of thing happening would keep me awake at night.
That's not when you need to be kept awake. And since Jon wasn't when he needed to be he'll never again be able to have a really good night's sleep.
Michael Grisham - 2018/11/28 19:47:56 UTC

The new mandatory training video for all tandem passengers!
How 'bout we also make it the new mandatory training video for all tandem drivers?
Davis Straub - 2018/11/29 03:02:51 UTC

I like that idea
Sure ya do, Davis. Almost well enough to include a period at the end of your four word sentence.

And another idea you like:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=924
Tragedy at Team Challenge
Davis Straub - 2005/10/01 23:12:07 UTC

Well, very simply we could make a new rule for competition. If you are seen in your harness but not hooked into your glider you are automatically disqualified.
Just no end of ideas you like. 'Specially ones related to...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks
Davis Straub - 2013/03/06 18:29:05 UTC

You know, after all this discussion I'm now convinced that it is a very good idea to treat the weaklink as a release, that that is exactly what we do when we have a weaklink on one side of a pro tow bridle. That that is exactly what has happened to me in a number of situations and that the whole business about a weaklink only for the glider not breaking isn't really the case nor a good idea for hang gliding.

I'm happy to have a relatively weak weaklink, and have never had a serious problem with the Greenspot 130, just an inconvenience now and then.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31747
Lockout
Davis Straub - 2014/09/01 15:22:41 UTC

I can tell you that I fly with a 200lb weaklink on one side of my 750lb pro tow bridle. I am happy with it.
...AT weak link strengths.

But just make sure you only fly with a 200lb weaklink on ONE side of your 750lb pro tow bridle when you're flying at Quest or Florida Ridge. 'Cause if you use them on BOTH sides you double the towline tension necessary to increase the safety of the towing operation - and twice as many people will die.

By the way... Funny we never very simply we made a new rule for competition - that if you were seen in your harness but not hooked into your glider you were automatically disqualified. How come? And how come NOBODY's suggesting anything along that line now?

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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=36274
Terrifying tandem--failure to hook in passenger--Swizerland
Jorge Zingg Jorge - 2018/11/30 11:41:06 UTC

There are quite stringent ratings here in switzerland...
SWIZER-land - you ignorant foreigner. Can't you even read the title of the topic to which you're posting Image
...for commercial tandem pilots. You have to have a certain number of solo flights (basic pilot course, min. 150 flights and 1+ years flying experience), then you can do a course with a theoretical and practical exam to get your permit to fly tandems, but you can only fly tandems with other pilots. After that you have to complete again a certain amount of tandem flights, then another practical and theory examination, then you can offer commercial tandems. Then you have to renew the licence every three years.

And yet, such a big mistake can happen...
No shit. So what does that tell us about the value of all this bullshit?

2003/03/29 - Coronet Peak - Steve Parson / Eleni Zeri
2006/02/21 - Coronet Peak - Jim Rooney / unidentified chick victim
2012/04/28 - Mount Woodside - Jonathan Orders / Lenami Godinez-Avila

What the fuck are they doing differently to expect different results?

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31781
Another hang check lesson
Alan Deikman - 2014/09/23 19:47:06 UTC

For my part I will just refer you to the classic Tad Eareckson essay which I call "the gun is always loaded" which is a bit overworked but probably all you will ever need to read regarding FTHI. A lot of people will find it gores their particular sacred Ox, but I have never seen anyone point out a flaw in his logic.
I don't recall any of these assholes getting in touch with Yours Truly to kick around any ideas to tailor this strategy for tandem ops.

http://www.hangglidinginterlaken.com/aboutus
About Us - Hang Gliding Interlaken
Hang Gliding Interlaken - 2018/11/30

About Us

We cater to the adventure seeking traveler who wants a taste of this extreme sport in a safe, controlled environment. We are Internationally recognized commercial pilots, well experienced and are fully qualified through the Swiss Hang Gliding Federation.
Bull fucking...

094-22322
http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4856/32213440768_8a214a5136_o.png
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...shit.

Nah Houston. We actually DON'T have a problem. Never have, never will. We're Internationally recognized commercial pilots, well experienced and fully qualified through the Swiss Hang Gliding Federation. We know what we're doing - and don't owe any apologies to anyone for anything. And we're obviously so well experienced and fully qualified through the Swiss Hang Gliding Federation that we constitute two thirds of the Board of Directors of the Swiss Hang Gliding Federation. Long live Swizerland!

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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=36274
Terrifying tandem--failure to hook in passenger--Swizerland
Doug Marley - 2018/11/30 14:04:52 UTC

As Max began eluding to, Gurky (passenger) donned his harness before doing practice runs sans glider.
This incident could have been completely averted if the pilot had hooked both harnesses to the hang loops and completed proper pre-flight checks on each harness before they both entered the harnesses (Aussie method).
1. FINALLY the Aussie Method rears its ugly head. The source? Big fuckin' surprise.

2. Yeah Doug. This incident could have been completely averted if the pilot had hooked both harnesses to the hang loops and completed proper pre-flight checks on each harness before they both entered the harnesses (Aussie method).

In the entire history of Aussie Methodist foot launch hang gliding there's never been a single incident...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=13359
Today was a bad day!
Mike Bomstad - 2009/08/26 04:21:15 UTC

The harness is part of the aircraft... end of story.
(Just because it's easy to remove, does not mean it should be. Dont choose the path of least resistance)

Attach it to the wing, completing the aircraft.... then preflight the completed aircraft.
Buckle yourself into the cockpit and then your ready.
11-A12819
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...of one of The Faithful ever having had the slightest hint of an issue.

3. This incident could have been completely averted if EITHER the pilot or the passenger had done ANYTHING by way of a check in the final few seconds before initiating the launch - just like every motherfucker with u$hPa training and certification has been required under the terms of the SOPS to do over the course of the better part of the last 38 years.
Does anyone here enter their harness prior to hooking in?
1. Who gives a rat's ass? The Aussie Method is a totally bogus strategy.
2. Fuck most of the people there - yourself in particular.
If so, then what are the situations that preclude you from hooking your harness in first?
C'mon Wonder Boy. Shoot your stupid fucking mouth off a little more.
Dave Pendzick - 2018/11/30 14:14:51 UTC

My HES Tracer harness is great because I can hook it in before putting on the harness.
Implying that there are other glider/harness combinations and situations in which one can't - as we well know is the reality.
That being said I have launched without buckling in, only the zipper & leg loops were holding me in.
The way they always are. 'Cause the buckle's not taking any load and is therefore totally irrelevant until after you blow open the zipper.

Another motherfucker from whom we're hearing nothing:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21868
Don't Forget your Hang Check!
Eric Hinrichs - 2011/05/13 21:31:06 UTC

I went to Chelan for the Nationals in '95 as a free flyer. They were requiring everyone to use the Australian method, and you were also not allowed to carry a glider without being hooked in.

This was different for me, I hook in and do a full hang check just behind launch right before I go. I was also taught to do a hooked in check right before starting my run, lifting or letting the wind lift the glider to feel the tug of the leg loops.

So I used their method and I'm hooked in, carrying my glider to launch and someone yells "Dust devil!" Everyone around runs for their gliders (most of which are tied down) and I'm left standing alone in the middle of the butte with a huge monster wandering around. I heard later that it was well over three hundred feet tall, and some saw lightning at the top. After that it was clear that no one is going to decide for me or deride me for my own safety methods, someone else's could have easily got me killed.
Guess he's too busy working on more videos demonstrating how You CAN steer a hang glider from the hang strap!
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TheFjordflier
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by TheFjordflier »

At least some "Swizerland" pilots are aware of the final hook-in check.
My video "HOOK IN" from 3 years ago was posted on a Swiss HG site as a saftey reminder on 15 Apr 2015.
http://www.hcnw.ch/?site=news&name=news&seite=9&kat=
News - HCNW.CH - Hängegleiter-Club Nordwestschweiz
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

And in a SANE world my article and your video would be mandatory reading and viewing for all schools and classes - instead of nowhere. But of course in a really sane world neither my article and nor your video would be needed anywhere in the first place.

Hang Gliding Interlaken sure ain't gonna acknowledge the existence of this stuff and illustrate how totally effortlessly this incident - which they're also not ever gonna acknowledge happened on their watch or anywhere else - could've been prevented.

Thanks and keep up the good work anyway.
....
http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5963
Hook In Check! This Tandem Tourist Almost Bought it!
Steve Murillo - 2018/11/27 20:54:14 UTC

A buddy of mine just sent me this. I'm amazed that the guy is able to hang on as long as he did. Unbelievable. Hang Check/Hook In Check Always Always Always!
Yeah Steve...
Joe Gregor - 2007/05

California
Cliff launch

An advanced pilot (Tad Hurst) launched unhooked. The pilot was able to hold on and effect a landing on the beach below, but suffered a broken pelvis and internal bleeding. It is extremely fortunate that this pilot had the strength to hold on for the duration of the flight, and it's amazing that these were the only injuries suffered. Lesson learned: HANG CHECK, HANG CHECK, HANG CHECK! Your life will most often depend on it.
http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3235
Tandem passenger falls to her death - bad news
Steve Murillo - 2012/05/03 04:56:51 UTC

This is a terrible tragedy that probably could have been avoided with a proper hang check.
http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=4127
Failure to hook in
Steve Murillo - 2013/08/22 17:09:00 UTC

Rob, first off, very glad you are OK.

Secondly, thanks for posting this. This highlights the fact that a failure to hook in can happen to ANY ONE OF US, if we do not consciously perform that task each and every time.

Personally, I vow to re-double my efforts and make sure I perform a "Hook In!" check each and every time, no matter the circumstances.
And we should DEFINITELY expect better results. Keep up the great work...

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3747
Looking for a Safety Mascot
Steve Murillo - 2013/01/09 22:01:59 UTC

I'm looking for suggestions for a "Safety Mascot", to include a catchy name and an icon or photo. Examples: Bucky the Safety Beaver, Suzie Safety, etc.
Cameron Condor, etc. Sorry, I'm not that creative.

So it's a contest! Put on your creative thinking caps. The winner get's bragging rights and his icon will replace my ugly mug on the home page of our website.

Cheers!
...asshole.
Steve D - 2018/11/29 05:28:26 UTC

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13132
Unhooked Death Again - Change our Methods Now?
JBBenson - 2009/01/25 16:27:19 UTC

I get what Tad is saying, but it took some translation:
HANG CHECK is part of the preflight, to verify that all the harness lines etc. are straight.
HOOK-IN CHECK is to verify connection to the glider five seconds before takeoff.
They are separate actions, neither interchangeable nor meant to replace one another. They are not two ways to do the same thing.
NMERider - 2018/11/29 20:48:07 UTC

I know at least three pilots from our club who have launched unhooked. I did it myself in 1978 resulting in a dislocated left middle finger which healed up longer and meaner than ever. I know PG pilots who launched 'unbuckled' one of whom fell to his death while his 17-yo daughter was left adrift in his tandem PG. I know of some tandem HGs where the pilot was unhooked but not the passenger.
I know one of those where the "pilot" clung on to the basetube and forced the glider and his safely hooked in chick passenger into a dive into the powerlines and was welcomed back into the community with open arms and even more respect by virtue of his even higher level of expertise on unhooked launch prevention.
Fear of launching unhooked is a very powerful reminder to perform a hook-in check immediately prior to launching.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13132
Unhooked Death Again - Change our Methods Now?
Quinn Cornwell - 2009/01/24 19:57:03 UTC
HPAC Accident Review and Safety Committee Chairman

No, don't think about the jagged boulders. That'll mess with your head. Don't ever tell pilots to think about "Oh, if you screw this up, you'll crash and burn into those jagged rocks down there, so make sure you don't screw this up." This sort of psychology is detrimental. It's good to be conscience of the dangers in hang gliding, pointing this out right before you start running is just plain stupid.
Hook-in checks have nothing to do with hang checks or routine maintenance.

A visiting pilot launched from Crestline recently after performing a successful hang check just prior to launch. His routine maintenance was fatally flawed however. His riser was not attached to the carabiner while his reserve bridle was. This fact was hidden by the neoprene sleeve which covers the bridle and riser. He crashed and has been in a coma ever since. In his case neither a hang check nor hook-in check made any difference.
Did he do a hook-in check? That's the one that gets you thinking about potential issues. Although if one can reinstall a carabiner without connecting it to the harness...
I knew a pilot in Spain who also failed his routine maintenance and not hang or hook-in check would have saved him. His riser failed internally and he went into free-fall. His reserve bridle was improperly connected to the internal webbing and upon deployment it abraded and melted the webbing leaving him in a fatal free-fall. He left behind a widow and young children. The visiting pilot at Crestline has a grieving wife and two young boys with dwindling or exhausted financial means.
Inconvenience.
Ignoring one's own injury or death, perhaps reflecting upon the devastation it can bring to one's family will make a pilot fear launching unhooked and slacking on his routine harness maintenance which reminds me of a recent accidental reserve deployment but I digress...

I hope a few pilots get the picture. Be afraid. Be very afraid and maybe you will be motivated to routinely perform all three items mentioned here.
1. Anybody who isn't very afraid has no fuckin' business in the sport.

2. The fear itself is just about always gonna do the trick. Makes one THINK.

3. The few pilots who get the picture should come down on the assholes who don't like a ton of bricks. Also on the assholes...

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=822
US Hawks Hook-In Verification Poll
Bob Kuczewski - 2011/10/25 06:28:43 UTC

Tad, Joe Greblo is a very conservative instructor, and he teaches a physical hook-in check just prior to launch. He does not mandate a lift and tug. If you go to Joe's web site (http://windsports.com) you can find contact information for him. Joe knows far more about hang gliding than I probably ever will. If you can convince him that he should be teaching "lift and tug" instead of "turn and check", then you'll get my vote of support.
http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=811
FTHI
Bob Kuczewski - 2011/11/09 18:34:13 UTC

Your five second time limit between hook-in check and launch is unreasonably short - especially when attached to the consequences that you've listed. This would preclude, for example, the "turn and look" hook-in check that Joe Greblo teaches because five seconds would easily elapse between that check and getting the glider back into position to launch.
...who've signed off the aforementioned assholes.

So is anyone else wondering when the guy who's signed off on virtually all the ratings in that neck of the woods will deign to grace the club forum with a few more words of his unfathomable wisdom?
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Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9149
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=36274
Terrifying tandem--failure to hook in passenger--Swizerland
Doug Marley - 2018/11/30 15:51:54 UTC

I wonder if many of pilots' forgetful moments can be chalked up to impatience and outside influences?
Who gives a flying fuck? These disasters occur in all kinds of circumstances with all kinds of factors included and/or omitted.
One of the older crows at one of the sites I fly can get impatient and many times attempts to hurry other pilots along by yelling "let's go, hurry up...." like he's the gruff squad sarge and we're on a time-sensitive war-time sortie.
When it's so very obvious that...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Davis Straub - 2011/08/28 15:26:28 UTC

Then again, Russell Brown had us double up behind him after six breaks in a row at Zapata. We couldn't figure out why we had so many breaks so quickly. Maybe just coincidence.
...we're not.
Strangely, he typically times his rant during the time that I and/or others are prepping or donning our harnesses.
I have my preparation sequence that I always adhere to and I do not allow conditions or other outside distractions to influence my pace.
Well, you're good to go then. Next topic...
I am not slow nor obsessive about checking and rechecking. One thorough pre-flight of everything set-up is sufficient for me.
Like it was for Jonathan Orders - all the way up to 2012/04/28.
But with other's launching...
Hey Jack... If you took the apostrophe out of Doug's "other's launching" and put in your "The worlds largest hang gliding community." you guys would look a little bit less like the total douchebags you actually are.
...and conditions looking prime, it is very tempting to hurry your preparations along at a faster pace than typically.
Don't worry about it.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 19:39:17 UTC

Weak links break for all kinds of reasons.
Some obvious, some not.

The general consensus is the age old adage... "err on the side of caution".

The frustration of a weaklink break is just that, frustration.
And it can be very frustrating for sure. Especially on a good day, which they tend to be. It seems to be a Murphy favourite. You'll be in a long tug line on a stellar day just itching to fly. The stars are all lining up when *bam*, out of nowhere your trip to happy XC land goes up in a flash. Now you've got to hike it all the way back to the back of the line and wait as the "perfect" window drifts on by.

I get it.
It can be a pisser.

But the "other side"... the not cautions one... is not one of frustration, it's one of very real danger.
Better to be frustrated than in a hospital, or worse.
No exaggeration... this is the fire that the "other side" is made of. Best not to play with it.
There will always be prime looking conditions tomorrow. And maybe you'll be able to keep doing the same things over and over again and get better results.
This is the environment that sets the table for overlooked/forgotten pieces of preparation.
Yeah, you might forget to tension a batten or lock your carabiner down all the way.
With Gursky's wife and pilot launching previously, and conditions appearing like it was becoming less soarable, Gursky's pilot may have felt the pressure to hurry along his preparations.
Bull fucking shit.
Most tales from surviving pilots who had forgot critical harness and/or craft details indicate that they were in a more rushed state-of-mind leading up to launch.
How nice that you have the data from which to draw conclusions like that.
This is a great reminder for all of us.
Once again - something we can ALL learn from.
Thank God no-one was seriously injured or worse.
Good ol' God. I wonder where the fuck he was when Arys Moorhead was getting pile driven into the dry lakebed a bit south of Vegas on 2015/03/27.
I wonder how many pilots and other passengers will Gursky's tale ultimately save?
I'm guessing...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18695
How could this accident happen?
William Olive - 2010/01/28 04:50:53

Phil Beck did this twice (or was that three times?) in a day at Hexham (Victoria) one time while foot launch aerotow testing gliders. Of course, with a swag of gliders to test fly, Phil would unclip from the glider he'd just landed, then clip into the next one to be tested.

Except, at least twice, he didn't clip in.
...zero.
Doug Marley - 2018/11/30 16:56:34 UTC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3UbztgTtsc


It's best to have a written and/or mnemonic check list.
How nice that you have the data from which to draw conclusions like that.
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Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9149
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: You are NEVER hooked in.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=36274
Terrifying tandem--failure to hook in passenger--Swizerland
CloudDiver - 2018/11/30 17:54:09 UTC

Since this video began going viral (sometime early this week)...
Monday.
...among the non-flying general public, mass media, and social media, just about everyone on my friends list has forwarded, copied, or tagged me on various FB reposts of this video.
Its pretty obnoxious...
...when people cant be bothered to use apostrophes when theyre called for.
...and its...
But thats The Jack Show for ya.
...unfortunate for the state of the sport.
The state of the sport has been total shit since the beginning of time.
I've...
Ive.
...declined to reply to just about every one of the above mentioned notifications... It wasn't my incident and its not my job to explain to the world anything about it, plus it would a lot of work I'm not getting paid for.
Come over here to Tad's Hole In The Ground. The salaries are astronomical.
But for anyone interested in this forum...
Fuck that forum. Its only real value is in documenting the stupidity and sleaziness of the sport.
...this is what is running through my brain bucket as I am floored by some of the silly reactions and the 'buzz' this video has created;
- This didn't happen in the U.S. (that matters to some people, but not all, in regards to how pilots are trained and qualified to do Tandem flights)
1. They're all doing it the same way and they're all getting the same results.
2. NOBODY's trained and qualified to do tandem flights - or solos for that matter.
- Free Flight, generally and statistically speaking, is safer than driving to work in the morning.
Boy it's nice to be able to pull whatever facts you want outta your ass and go totally unchallenged in Jack's Living Room, ain't it?
- Forgetting to clip yourself in and especially forgetting to check a passenger is a monumental mistake...
Yeah, I can sure see forgetting oneself in. But a PASSENGER?! Totally unforgiveable.
...but really, do we want to start qui-pro-quo in monumental oversights that humans have made doing any number of potentially dangerous sports or other activities?
Maybe. But first I gotta know what qui-pro-quo is.
- This guy was lucky, he lived with and had a non-life threatening injury.
Yeah, I'll bet he feels really lucky. Hard to imagine a better first day of a vacation in Swizerland.
Others who perished in similar incidents were not so lucky.
Not sure I'm following you here. Can you elaborate a bit?
- Are we going to judge the safety of an entire sport based on one viral video?
Fuck no. We should judge the safety of the entire sport based on the hundreds of thousands of Rooney Link inconveniences that DON'T result in fatal tumbles from 150 feet.
If that's the case, cancel all commercial flights and future air travel plans. No?
Totally with ya, dude. We're all just rolling dice every time we buckle ourselves into 43F.
Then STFU
I'm totally with ya there dude.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=13545
tow accidents
Brian Horgan - 2009/11/01 17:18:06 UTC

if you dont fly then shut the fuk up.
Brian Horgan too.
It would make me sad...
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 17:34:33 UTC

Zach,
We're not in disagreement. In fact, you're reiterating all kinds of stuff that I try to get across to people all the time.

As I said, I've been through this a million freaking times.
Which is ok.
I don't mind clarifying it for people.

What I do mind is that when there is disagreement, it is generally NOT me that is wrong. Yet people persist in telling me bla bla bla. I don't care if people disagree with me... cuz I know they're wrong. It makes me sad.
...to know if potential interest in taking a tandem flight or getting into the sport has been harmed or reversed by this video for anyone who watched it...
Yeah, nobody should watch these things. And they should watch them even less if they're already in the sport. Is there any way we can replace this one with a cat video?
...but in a twisted sort of way I think 'fine then, the LZ and launches are crowded enough as it is.
Yep. This sport is way too overpopulated nowadays. But don't worry - Tim Herr and Mark G. Forbes are busy getting things under control.
If you can't take the heat stay the F out the kitchen'.
Suck my dick.
Just thinking out loud
I shudder to imagine what we'd be hearing with the thinking disengaged.

What a total fuckin' sewer.
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