Blown launch and crash into trees
- The time to abort a launch because of not being in is immediately after THE HOOK-IN CHECK (which you never do) - NOT a few steps into your launch run when it starts becoming apparent to you or somebody else that you have a serious problem.David Stevens - 2012/01/12 12:50:37 UTC
Regarding the experience of the crew, they are H4 on the left and H5 on the right.
I tried to stop my run immediately after I started it because of the commotion. I didn't know what was up, and then it registered that it was just my wing up on the right but then I didn't know what the stop stop stop was about.
Too be honest, it was all so confusing and I got confused and incorrectly decided to abort. Then the glider got away from me, and I ended up in the trees. Learning how to abort is not something that you practice but it should be something you think through if you ever do need it - like not hooked in or damage to the glider.
- What critical damage to the glider or assembly issues do you think is gonna start becoming apparent to anyone a couple of steps into a launch run that won't be blindingly obvious to you or anyone else moving the glider into or at launch position?
I really doubt it. You crashed into the trees and USHGA gliders never crash.The dialog in the beginning was with a new 2-high-flight H2 you can't see who was behind the glider. He never touched it. It's ironic though that he was talking about how important communication is in the launch process.
I think the lesson here is:
- Clear your wires, make sure it's your glider before you yell clear.
- And for wire crews, STFU when the pilot says clear and don't yell to him/her until they are established in flight.
I've been speaking with both wire guys - they are both mentors to me and my friends - and we'll be putting an article in the mag about it to share the experience.
That - like all the rest of them - is the wrong forum for stating much of anything. You're more than welcome to come to Kite Strings any time you want.I've watched the video quite a bit, and sort of enjoy watching my crouching tiger hidden dragon walk through the trees, lucky as it was.
Anyway, thanks for all the comments, but I don't understand the "you have balls for sharing" comments. Pride is stupid, and as pilots, pride is our worst enemy. I think sharing this is part of my responsibilities as a pilot so we can all learn from each other's mistakes. This is probably the wrong forum for stating this but, ego's have no place in safe free flight flying.
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H3 FL ST FSL
WW Sport 2 155, Vision Mk IV 19, WW Falcon 1 195
Walking away was what put him into the trees to begin with.Dave Holmgren - 2012/01/13 21:03:45 UTC
Point of the Mountain
GLAD you're OK, and man, I feel bad for the glider (and repair costs), but at least you walked away.
If he HAD actually partially flown the glider for him for a couple of steps instead of yelling the wrong thing the day would've gone a lot better.Since we're all putting our two cents in, I'll play...
We all see different things when we view a video like this and then filter it through the lens of our own personal experiences. Here's mine: FIRST, I totally agree with John Caldwell - you have handled the pubic humiliation session here with grace and composure. Again and again, you've properly accepted responsibility for the situation and outcome.
A lot of valid (and the expected off kilter) comments made, and I don't know you, your experience, the site, conditions that day, or the two guys 'helping' on your side wires. But I wish we'd been able to hear what they had to say about it. H-4 and H-5, eh? From my chair, it seems like the guy on your right side wires really wanted to fly your glider for you.
- He's not holding the basetube on the ground. The glider's floating and touching down on a corner periodically.I saw him holding the wing down with more force than I would have expected to given the 10-ish mph winds you describe, ESPECIALLY since you were holding the base tube on the ground most of the time prelaunch.
- What's it matter how much somebody is or isn't holding on a wire when the pilot is squatting down under the wing?
It would throw ANYBODY off.The early part of your launch (when the wind you mentioned from your right lifted that right wing again) looked a bit iffy, not unsalvageable - no ding, we all do that time to time. Then when the wire guys guys noticed that, THAT'S when they really should have just - as another poster put it - STFU - and let you handle it yourself. It would throw me off to hear those VERY energetic (and contrasting) comments at exactly the point when I was trying to figure out how to fix the situation I had put myself in.
I don't have much use for guys on the nose once I'm settled down at launch. I've GOT the leverage to trim the nose where I want it. I DON'T always have the leverage to keep the roll situation under control - in fact, NOBODY does - and I don't like wearing myself out getting or keeping things level.They - neither one of them - did anything other than make a precarious situation worse for you.
My takeaways? As you stated, maybe use just one wire guy vice two. I THINK (there I go again, not knowing the site or situation except from your video) given your description of the wind that day -I'd have not used any wire crew there at all, or at most only one guy on the nose wires.
And I get real irritated when a wing goes up ten degrees and the idiot on it does nothing to get it back down 'cause he wants me to FEEL the glider. (Yeah, I know the fuckin' wing just got blasted up ten degrees. Would it be too goddam much trouble to help me get it back under control?)
- Those were not anything remotely resembling challenging conditions.Dense Pages (Dennis Pagen) suggests not just standing there in challenging conditions - to launch as soon as you're ready to launch. You did that, but because the right wire guy had been holding downforce on his side, you didn't have a great feel for the true force on your glider - he had masked them.
- No, he didn't do that. He launched WAY before he - and his crew - were ready. He didn't check that the glider was trimmed and he didn't verify that he was hooked in.
- What's a hang check gotta do with the issue of being hooked in at launch?And then, finally, and you alluded to this also, a good clean BRIEFING to whatever wire guy/s you decide to use - detailing your expectations - could have proven critical. I don't care if it's Paul Voight or Steve Pearson or Dennis Pagen (just thinking of the three most authoritative / experienced guys I can pull out of my cranium on short notice...). Once I yell clear, I don't want to hear anything from them except CLEAR (OK, or YOU'RE UNHOOKED, but you already did a hang check and a shrug check, right...?)
- What's a shrug check? If it's what I think it is it shouldn't be way the hell down in this part of the post (in parentheses).
Super experienced doesn't always translate as super competent. Shoot both of your wires, rewind the tape, stick a ten year old kid who's never seen a glider before on either wire, tell him NOTHING beyond keep the glider level, there won't be a problem.I think your right side wire guy proved - it's not always a benefit to have a super experienced guy hanging on to your glider when you're the one - not him - who's going to fly it.
It never hurts to do a real quick left/right look-see to check wire deflection to verify that your guys are neutral or holding balanced pressure just before you clear them.Not trying to ignore or gloss over the other parts of the equation (new balaclava, sounds, temperature, pulling in more for better roll control - yada yada), but those are the most important things I saw that might have changed the outcome.
Thanks for sharing! I learned from your experience, and that's probably the best thing you can get out of this now - that others may be able to avoid a similar experience.
Cheers!
- Right. The Fours and Fives all do this religiously and thus never launch unhooked.fly,surf,&ski - 2012/01/14 04:03:43 UTC
Torrey Pines
One more thing for newer pilots: If right before you launch you pick the glider up high enough that your harness lines go tight, well that is the very last check that you are indeed hooked in.
- And they always look for it when they're helping the newer pilots - like Dave here - so they don't launch unhooked either.
- That's the ONLY goddam check that you are indeed - or might be - hooked in. And never think for a nanosecond otherwise.
IMHO