http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34277
"evidence of that silliness"
Ryan Voight - 2016/04/21 19:06:19 UTC
Ok... been a little busy...
Rest assured, so have we.
...glad you guys were able to carry on without me (even if no progress was made).
Don't worry, WE are making MEASURABLE progress - you lying cowardly little shit.
Here's where I'm at, at this point:
Totally fucked. Same as you were when you committed:
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27217
Bad Launch!
Ryan Voight - 2012/09/26 14:23:55 UTC
Running to the right = weight shift to the right.
It's all about what the glider feels. Running to the right pulls the hang loop to the right, just like when you weight shift at 3,000 ft. Glider doesn't know or care what means you used to pull the hang loop to the right.
michael170 - 2012/09/26 19:52:56 UTC
Are you sure about that, Ryan?
Ryan Voight - 2012/09/26 20:05:16 UTC
You were never taught to run toward the lifting wing?
Yes, I'm sure.
I can (and have) run across a field and steer the glider without ever touching the DT's by simply changing the direction I run. At the beach (or South Side) I like to practice kiting my wing with no hands, and just moving my hips (and stepping if necessary) left/right.
Pulling the hang loop to the right is pulling the hang loop to the right- glider don't care if you're dangling beneath it or still touching the ground. As long as your mains are tight, you can weight shift it!
to paper - 'cause you will never in a thousand years be able to show us a single frame of video supporting your bald-faced lie and anyone who attempts to duplicate that experiment will find the glider doing the polar opposite of what you claim in a fuckin' New York minute.
*I have shared a newer theory as to why weight shift results in roll control in flex wing hang gliders.
Good thing *YOU have SHARED this "NEWER THEORY" with us muppets - 'cause for some inexplicable reason Hang Gliding, The Oz Report, Nature, and other highly respected scientific journals have failed to pick up on it to date.
I did not develop this theory...
No...
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30824
Article "Pushing Out" Feb 2014 HG mag
NMERider - 2014/02/25 06:05:06 UTC
What part of:
...his rather nonsensical and too-often phantasmagorical version of physics and aerodynamics.
wasn't clear?
Ryan is a classic example of a superbly talented athlete who is ill-equipped to write a comprehensive training manual or academically meaningful text.
...shit.
...it was merely shared with me.
Well yeah. Whenever you develop a newer scientific theory you need to be careful to merely share it with a small number of privileged information decimators. It's not like you'd wanna put your name on and publish it for just anyone to be able read, scrutinize, comment on.
It's quite different from what I thought I knew beforehand...
Really reassuring to know that u$hPa appoints flight instructors who teach aeronautical theory based on what they think they know.
...and like some...
Who specifically?
...here...
"Here" being Jack's Living Room - where the rules are and will be for all eternity whatever Jack feels like saying and doing at any given moment and individuals who see through bullshit like yours and call it for what it is tend to get their wires permanently cut.
...I initially resisted it (strongly).
But then you realized that it didn't need to be consistent with Newtonian physics or supported by video evidence and immediately embraced it with an unparalleled passion.
Considering the source it came from, my respect for their knowledge, experience, brainpower, wisdom, maturity, etc...
So much respect that the idea of NAMING "THEM" would be patently absurd. And, unfortunately, the images of individuals with that much knowledge, experience, brainpower, wisdom, maturity, etc... cannot be captured on film. So, unfortunately, you muppets wanting to know anything further about this individual's actual identity are totally shit outta luck.
This is TEXTBOOK ROONEY. Presents himself as a conduit through which the gods transmit their truth and wisdom but will NEVER cite, quote, identify a source. The medium can't be attacked 'cause he's just a humble medium relaying ultimate wisdom and the sources can't be identified 'cause if they are we can pull quotes and/or dig up the skeletons they've secreted and cut them to ribbons. Also, if these Industry fucks start identifying sources they're presenting as superior to themselves, they divert students ($$$) to them. One hundred percent of commercial operations advertise themselves as the best on the planet and the best possible.
http://flyhighhg.com
Fly High Hang Gliding
http://flyhighhg.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/GH2_Frame_Ellenville-e1413496272791-1024x417.jpg
In operation since 1985,
Fly High continues assisting people on their journey to becoming rated and proficient hang glider pilots.
Our experienced, expert staff of enthusiastic certified instructors will be your guides as you progress safely and incrementally into becoming a skilled, confident, and self-reliant mountain pilot. Fly High's founder, and his son (now running the business) have both been recognized by the United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association as "Hang Gliding Instructor of the Year" : Paul Voight in 2007 and Ryan Voight in 2014. In 2009 Paul was also awarded the Rob Kells Memorial Award (equivalent of a lifetime achievement award).
Why would you go to Greg Black or Mike Robertson after reading something like that?
This is a one hundred percent predictable pattern.
Also notice that con "artists" / sociopaths like Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney and Ryan Instant-Hands-Free-Release Voight...
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29984
What happened to the org?
Mike Lake - 2013/09/26 18:59:57 UTC
On the other hand there are plenty of people who fly lots but still manage to spew out the most incredible and dangerous garbage to others.
This includes some of the "professional" people who work in the industry and are therefore able to regard themselves as such.
They really believe they have a monopoly on knowledge and when finding themselves on the losing side of a debate resort to the old standby "This is what we do so fuck off you weekender".
I say good riddance to those nauseating, know it all, self indulgent "professionals" who have banished themselves from this site.
2013/09/26 19:19:24 UTC - 3 thumbs up - NMERider
2013/09/26 20:30:40 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Rick Cavallaro
2013/09/27 01:07:47 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Sam Kellner
2013/09/26 20:02:33 UTC - 3 thumbs up - John Borton
2013/09/26 20:42:36 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Brian Scharp
...don't have any actual friends 'cause they view all individuals as marks to use to facilitate their climbs to the top. (Just figured out why Sam chimed in. Thinks Mike had T** at K*** S****** in mind when writing that.)
I'm pretty certain that Highland Aerosports collapsed in part because they wouldn't have tolerated another season of Rooney at any price. And when we destroyed that motherfucker on The Davis Show post Marzec it was a coordinated TEAM effort.
...I concluded I needed to check my ego and LISTEN.
Oh. So your confidence in the older THEORY was based upon your image of yourself as a really cool looping dude. This is bullshit. This is not how actual human thinking about scientific theory progresses. He's analyzing the situation for effective pathways to promote himself. He returned to The Jack Show 'cause he wasn't able to be as much of a center of attention over on his personal blog.
Before entirely accepting it, I had to prove it for myself... (or TO myself?)
Which was a relative breeze - 'cause Ryan Instant-Hands-Free-Release Voight proving something to himself never involves honest back-and-forth discussions with competent individuals or using of any of that nasty arithmetic and logic.
What videos did I watch?
Just ones for which you needn't provide links.
Any hang gliding video. Every hang gliding video
You mean the ones that don't show people executing roll control without use of their hands?
If THIS *NEWER* theory is true, and I'm now 10,000% convinced it is...
Very strange way to start off a sentence... IF this NEWER *THEORY* - that two plus two equals FOUR, rather than three point seven as predicted by the OLDER theory, and I'm now one hundred times one hundred percent CONVINCED that it is...
Compare/Contrast with:
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31781
Another hang check lesson
Alan Deikman - 2014/09/23 19:47:06 UTC
For my part I will just refer you to the classic Tad Eareckson essay which I call "
the gun is always loaded" which is a bit overworked but probably all you will ever need to read regarding FTHI. A lot of people will find it gores their particular sacred Ox, but I have never seen anyone point out a flaw in his logic.
No IFs, nothing about being ten thousand percent CONVINCED. Nailed it. Flawless. End of fuckin' story - fuckin' Mike End-Of-Story Bomstad.
And note that the word "NEWER" - versus "OLDER" - implies that five or ten years down the road on our journey to better understand the aerodynamics of hang glider control (Bumblebees we can do and have done. But HANG GLIDERS! Dontchya think that after half a century's worth of study and scrutiny by the best minds on the planet that if they could've untangled this can of worms by now they'd have already untangled it?) there will be a *NEWER* newer theory that will even better explain what's going on. At which time Ryan Instant-Hands-Free-Release Voight will become ten thousand percent convinced it's true.
Also... A hang glider person uses the word "theory" as a badge of contempt - as we see here in this post:
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 06:04:23 UTC
Troll
Hahahaha.
That seriously made me chuckle.
I get what you're saying Christopher.
Please understand that I'm not advocating professional infalliblity. Not really sure where I mentioned that, but I can understand where you might have drawn that assumption. None the less, I simply refer to "us" as the "professional pilots" as a term to describe the pilots that do this for a living. Yes, we're just humans... bla bla bla... my point is that we do this a whole sh*tload more than the "average pilot"... and not just a little more... a LOT.
We discuss this stuff a lot more as well. We vet more ideas. This isn't just "neat stuff" to us... it's very real and we deal with it every day.
It's not "us" that has the track record... it's our process.
We're people just like anyone else. And that's the point. THIS is how we do it... normal, fallible humans... and it bloody well works.
So I don't give much credence to something that someone doesn't agree with about what we do for some
theoretical reason.
Take this weaklink nonsense.
What do I "advocate"?
I don't advocate shit... I *USE* 130 test lb, greenspun cortland braided fishing line.
It is industry standard.
It is what *WE* use.
If someone's got a problem with it... we've got over ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND TANDEM TOWS and COUNTLESS solo tows that argue otherwise. So they can politely get stuffed.
As my friend likes to say... "Sure, it works in
reality... but does it work in
theory?"
Hahahahhaa... I like that one a lot
from Ryan Instant-Hands-Free-Release Voight's first cousin and former boyfriend. It's "theory" not by the scientific definition as in relativity and evolution - or basic aeronautical theory as taught in conventional aviation ground school. Theory which explains all relevant observable and testable phenomena without exception. It's "theory" as in some brain damaged Texas Bible thumper dismissing evolution as just another THEORY no better than anybody else's opinion so yeah, goddammit, we're gonna be teaching Creation Science to our public grade school kids too.
...there CAN'T be a specific video where we see it... it needs to be in ALL the videos, right?!
RIGHT!
- Like this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azZCJsd0UJE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azZCJsd0UJE
05-0820
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1551/26152677350_30960a5aa7_o.png
08-1519
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1573/26333177542_e4a3a883b4_o.png
10-2020
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1669/26425524185_42ceedf1e9_o.png
very clearly illustrates the dynamics involved in hang glider roll control.
- So show us one fuckin' video from one fuckin' source whom we respect for their knowledge, experience, brainpower, wisdom, maturity, etc... illustrating no-hands glider roll control. One five degree bank once in either direction is all we're asking for.
The best proof for me was any footage of a hang glider flying, shot from the ground, where the glider is flying away from the camera- so the trailing edge is most visable.
Well yeah. But that's just for you. And you're a lot smarter than any of us weekender muppets.
Then the pilot weight shifts...
How? Does he just will his body to the side or does he hafta use his hands?
...and the glider begins to roll. I could pause the video before the pilot weight shifts and stick a post-it note along the trailing edge of the glider just before the pilot weight shifted. Then play a few frames while the pilot moves over, and pause it again. The left and right wing have not deformed yet!
There are more pounds per square foot on the side towards which the pilot has shifted his weight and fewer pounds per square foot on the other but hang gliders recently obtained a special exemption from Newton's Third Law of Motion which permits a delayed response in order to comply with the newer theory developed by a source Ryan respects for their knowledge, experience, brainpower, wisdom, maturity, etc...
Play a few more frames, until the wing begins to roll...
At thirty frames per second about how many do we typically have to run to get us through the dispensation period?
...and now it gets interesting-
And NOW it gets interesting? I found what's happened to this point already to be totally fascinating.
...because the LEADING EDGES are rolling...
But not, of course, the kingpost, wires, control frame, suspension, pilot. All that other stuff kicks in a bit later.
...while the trailing edge basically stays aligned with the post-it... until the glider has rolled enough that the trailing edge begins following the leading edge up or down depending which way the wing is rolling...
1. I'm guessing a conventional fixed wing aircraft begins to roll immediately in response to ailerons being deflected in opposition to each other 'cause it's never heard of this source whom you respect for their knowledge, experience, brainpower, wisdom, maturity, etc... and the McDonnell Douglas folk developing fighter jets would probably be familiar with the phenomenon such that your source wouldn't have had to develop the Newer Theory.
2. So what you're saying is that one wing goes down as its trailing edge goes up while the opposite wing goes up as its trailing edge goes down. Fascinating. Just like with ailerons. Who'da thunk.
3. And then the plane continues rolling until the wings are entirely beyond the ranges in which they were before the control input was executed. Also fascinating. Extra fascinating after a bong hit or two.
It blew my mind!
Did you try it after a bong hit or two?
Honestly-
That should raise flags with people of varying ages. It's an indication that the person saying it is emphasizing that he's kicking out of his normal operating mode.
I was so sure I had it all figured out before...
Lemme guess... Ten thousand percent convinced?
...and then to see it in this entirely new way, just wow!
Wow.
This new theory also fills in some problems I had with the older concept, which I won't get into...
Aw fuck. Now we'll never get to hear the problems you had with the older concept that this new theory fills in.
...but ya know that feeling when "it all adds up" suddenly?
Not without you getting into the problems you had with the older concept that this new theory also fills in.
This is that...
We muppets can only envy you - and pray that these voids in our collective knowledge of fundamental hang glider aeronautical theory don't translate to more of the deaths we experienced under the older concept.
REGARDING WEIGHT SHIFTING WITH OR WITHOUT USE OF HANDS... that seems like a silly debate, honestly.
It's really refreshing to see you being so honest with various parts of this post - for a change.
Demanding I produce video evidence? Yea, ok. I'm half inclined, because my ego hates being challenged ("know thyself", right?)... but frankly...
And very honestly.
...I came here and have spent a LOT of time trying to educate and then back up that education with information and explanation.
But ENOUGH is ENOUGH GODDAMMIT! Ya gotta draw the line SOMEWHERE! And frankly, honestly, demanding that I show you video evidence of what I've frankly and honestly been TELLING you is simply beyond the PALE. I mean... Get fuckin' REAL people!
If you want "proof", and you're that interested in this subject, please go out and "prove it to yourself".
We've tried. We've looked at both videos you've produced depicting weight shifting without use of hands.
068-25104
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1572/26142964830_289bc3f2cb_o.png
06-0911
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1598/25890755153_88a24e4671_o.png
We're just really confused 'cause in both videos the pilots appear to be using their hands.
While I didn't let go with my hands on that mountain launch video I posted (still needed to pull in to get off the hill with "extra" airspeed- as well as lower the AofA so the wing is more controllable in roll to correct the lifting wing)... I am telling you with complete certainty...
---ten thousand percent certainty as well as extraordinary frankness and honesty...
...I was NOT pulling on the downtube(s) laterally.
I did NOT have sexual relations with that woman... Miss Lewinsky.
And I wasn't pulling "down" on one side harder than the other, which would be another- sloppier- way of adding more weight to one side (weight shift).
And you can't ever prove otherwise. So there. So now what are you gonna do about it?
Don't believe that?
No. Because this time you didn't assure us you were being frank and honest.
I don't really care.
Lying little worms such as you...
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links
Jim Rooney - 2007/07/19 14:50:52 UTC
Weak links don't always break in lockout situations... so lets make them stronger? Are you nuts?
I don't care if they're "Meant" to break in lockout. How the hell is it a bad thing if they do?
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2871
speed link
Jim Rooney - 2007/12/13 18:07:02 UTC
Wow, so this is what I get when I try to be civil?
Oh well, very nice. Enjoy being pissed. I don't care.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 04:55:25 UTC
So, argue all you like.
I don't care.
I've been through all these arguments a million times... this is my job.
I could be more political about it, but screw it... I'm not in the mood to put up with tender sensibilities... Some weekend warrior isn't about to inform me about jack sh*t when it comes to towing. I've got thousands upon thousands of tows under my belt. I don't know everything, but I'll wager the house that I've got it sussed a bit better than an armchair warrior.
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 17:34:33 UTC
See, you don't get to hook up to my plane with whatever you please. Not only am I on the other end of that rope... and you have zero say in my safety margins... I have no desire what so ever to have a pilot smashing himself into the earth on my watch. So yeah, if you show up with some non-standard gear, I won't be towing you. Love it or leave it. I don't care.
Ok, I'm tired of this.
I'm not really sure who you're trying to convince.
Again, I don't care to argue this stuff.
I'll answer actual questions if you're keen to actually hear the answers, but arguing with me? Really? Have fun with that.
Gimme a call when you think of something that we haven't already been through years ago... cuz to date, you have yet to come up with anything new. Well, maybe it's new to you I guess. It's old as dirt to me though.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/16 05:05:41 UTC
Ok, keyboard in hand.
I've got a bit of time, but I'm not going to write a dissertation... so either choose to try to understand what I'm saying, or (as is most often the case) don't.
I don't care.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks
Jim Rooney - 2013/03/05 01:32:20 UTC
Btw, it's nothing to do with you "counting" on the weaklink breaking... Its about me not trusting you to hit the release.
If it were only about what you want, then you could use what you like.
You want the strongest weaklink you can have.
I want you to have the weakest one practical.. I don't care how much it inconveniences you.
I don't trust you as a rule. You Trust you , but I don't and shouldn't.
Jim Rooney - 2013/03/12 15:43:02 UTC
Also as I said before, I don't care... the straight pin / bent pin is "issue" is a non issue to me. Use either. You like straight pins? BFD... use straight ones.
...tend to say that quite a bit. By way of contrast... Search the archives of Kite Strings for "I don't care" and find one post by Yours Truly or any other past or current registered user using that combination of words in a similar context.
Me? When somebody questions MY credibility I will move heaven and earth to make the situation crystal clear. Either present ironclad evidence of what I have or haven't said or acknowledge that I was wrong, mistaken, confused about an issue and get the record set straight.
Don't believe this theory about how roll control works? I don't really care.
So tell us what the fuck you DO really care about. 'Cause an instructor who's saying that he doesn't really care about fundamental aeronautical theory is actually saying he really doesn't care whether or not people get mangled or killed because of false information they've been given or solid information they haven't been given. Tell me what else hang gliding instruction is about. Tell me that a minimum of 99.99 percent of what instruction isn't about accurate communication that allows the student to properly wire his brain for flight.
I've done MORE than my part here to share knowledge...
You and your buddy Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney both. It's the QUALITY of the knowledge that's the problem.
...wisdom...
Here's one of the definitions of wisdom from my Mac "Dictionary" application:
the body of knowledge and principles that develops within a specified society or period
Here's an example of that flavor of wisdom within THIS specified society and it's longest relevant period:
Towing Aloft - 1998/01
"It is infinitely better to have a weak link break too soon rather than too late."
-- Towing Proverb
Here's one of the results of that flavor of wisdom:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg
...that was shared with me...
By whom? What's so fuckin' special about you that entitles you to knowledge and wisdom directly through the original source without a middleman filtering, editing, redacting the original knowledge and wisdom as he pleases?
...and my extensive personal experience and research before "buying in" to these newer ideas.
1. A lot of the people you're talking to and pissing on were flying hang gliders years before you took your first breath - Yours Truly included.
2. Tell us about all the relevant personal experiences you've had that couldn't be duplicated by a Hang 2.0 student in the course of a short afternoon at Tres Pinos with its training hill and stationary winch.
3. If we muppets aren't out there at the hill gaining a small fraction of that vast trove of personal experience you have shouldn't we, generally speaking, have vast amounts of time available to do ten times the research you've done?
4. How do you think your personal experience and research stack up to the collective experience and research of thousands of hang glider pilots?
5. Cite me ANY advancement from the entire history of hang gliding required ANYONE'S *EXPERIENCE* to effect.
6. Search the archives of Kite Strings for any member citing his experience as a qualification to communicate, promote a concept.
If you have the same reluctance I had- which is understandable!- do what I did... get off your ass.
Which is what one is on when doing research - and engaging in battles in which reputations are made and destroyed and the course of hang gliding history is determined. NOTHING scares Mark G. Forbes, Tim Herr, Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney, other u$hPa and Industry shits as much as the wrong person sitting on his ass and tapping keys with his fingers.
Or don't. Whatever
I'm staying right here on my ass, Ryan.
And you're not gonna be happy with the results of what I do so situated.
Love,
Ryan
Don't count on it.
PS...
Continuing on subsequent post.
