http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50829
Bruno on his Russian mouth release
Davis Straub - 2016/12/14 18:06:25 UTC
Not setup correctly
Burke "Bruno" Schnedl <<rdufokker>> writes:
I had an issue with my Russian mouth release. Two days ago down here at Wallaby Ranch I made two pattern tows and a normal tow. The first tow was nothing out of the ordinary, This is about my 20th tow using the mouth release. The second pattern tow was not good.
I did not connect my bridle to the release but someone helping connected it for me so that all I had to do was bite down on the release. My first mistake was that I didn't completely check the connection. I glanced at it, but it didn't look out of the ordinary.
Reaching 800' I was waved off and I relaxed my mouth to release the release but nothing had happened. I noticed that the bridle was actually over one of the pins and on the wrong side.
I grabbed the line to pull slack hoping it would jump back over the pin but no luck. I went for my barrel release but missed it the first time, by the time I got to it the second time and released, but I was way out of position.
Had this happened to me low to the ground it would have been disastrous. I still feel this is a better design for a release but needed some polishing up. I would also say that I was using spectra line as my bridle, which is very small diameter and more easily caught.
Afterwards, I tried Dacron line and it too snagged but was easier to get loose. We are trying to contact the Russians who make these releases to advise them.
Not setup correctly
"Set up" is two words - asshole.
I had an issue with my Russian mouth release. Two days ago down here at Wallaby Ranch...
What's the point of trying to use a release that doesn't stink on ice down there at Wallaby Ranch? Down there at Wallaby Ranch your weak link will break...
http://www.wallaby.com/aerotow_primer.php
Aerotow Primer for Experienced Pilots
The Wallaby Ranch Aerotowing Primer for Experienced Pilots - 2016/12/17
A weak link connects the V-pull to the release, providing a safe limit on the tow force. If you fail to maintain the correct tow position (centered, with the wheels of the tug on the horizon), the weak link will break before you can get into too much trouble.
...before you can get into too much trouble. As an experienced pilot you should certainly understand that.
I made two pattern tows and a normal tow. The first tow was nothing out of the ordinary, This is about my 20th tow using the mouth release.
And about your zillionth tow with an Industry Standard bent pin barrel "release" - as a backup in the past about twenty and as your primary in all the rest. So you're undoubtedly really good at using it. Besides...
http://ozreport.com/20.155
Russian Mouth Release
Bruno Schnedl - 2016/08/03 14:58:43 UTC
I used a pro tow setup with barrel release on right side.
You're a pro. Right?
The second pattern tow was not good.
I did not connect my bridle to the release but someone...
...whose parents could never decide on a name - so everyone just calls him "someone"...
...helping...
Yes. "HELPING".
...connected it for me so that all I had to do was bite down on the release.
- And you didn't break any teeth? Or do you mean all you had to do was bite down on the ACTUATOR?
- How 'bout we use a little loop of bungee or sumpin' to clamp the actuator until we're ready to roll?
My first mistake was that I didn't completely check the connection. I glanced at it, but it didn't look out of the ordinary.
- And the Wallaby cart monkey, whose fuckin' JOB...
http://www.wallaby.com/aerotow_primer.php
Aerotow Primer for Experienced Pilots
The Wallaby Ranch Aerotowing Primer for Experienced Pilots - 2016/12/17
Launching
A Ranch Hand will assist you.
A Ranch Hand will attach the bridle through the aerotow ring and then to the release mechanism.
...it is to check critical issues before giving the tug the green, ALSO failed to completely check the connection. He just glanced at it.
- I'll bet I'm a lot better at glancing at tow releases than you are.
Reaching 800' I was waved off and I relaxed my mouth to release the release but nothing had happened. I noticed that the bridle was actually over one of the pins and on the wrong side.
Yes. IN FLIGHT you noticed that.
I grabbed the line to pull slack hoping it would jump back over the pin but no luck. I went for my barrel release...
11-05614
http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/213/30896046053_e57c347547_o.png
...but missed it the first time, by the time I got to it the second time and released, but I was way out of position.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1143
Death at Tocumwal
Davis Straub - 2006/01/24 12:27:32 UTC
I'm willing to put the barrel release within a few inches of my hand.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks
Davis Straub - 2013/03/10 14:09:22 UTC
I've had no problem releasing my barrel release hundreds of times.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34646
Are you satisfied with flex wing handling qualities?
Ryan Voight - 2016/08/22 20:14:50 UTC
The reason this is a trick question, is the same reason it should be irrelevant that the Lookout release has less mechanical advantage, and may be difficult to use during the high tension of a lock-out. There are other releases (no so common anymore, thankfully) that could become full-on inoperable when the tension increased...
So... are you willing and able to manually release when you believe you are entering an unrecoverable lockout? Hint- if you are *entering* an unrecoverable lockout... you should have already A) steered yourself back where you belong, and if you were unable to do A then do B) release before before BEFORE entering an unrecoverable lockout situation.
Failing to fly the glider where you want it to fly is a serious situation... a lockout is an even more serious situation, but it is a symptom that follows that first problem. Failing to recognize the first problem, and remedy or escape *BEFORE* the following lockout ensues... THAT is what people seem not to get here.
Davis wrote pretty extensively about this when the comp-fatality happened, and even shared how the comp rules were written to ENCOURAGE "when in doubt, just get out". Frankly, a lockout should never happen... it's not a single failure, and it's not a problem with the equipment or with the mechanics or physics of what is being attempted... a lockout can only happen as the result of operator error(S)... plural.
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3107
I have a tandem rating!!!
Lauren Tjaden - 2008/03/23 22:20:15 UTC
The barrel release wouldn't work because we had too much pressure on it.
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3391
More on Zapata and weak link
Paul Tjaden - 2008/07/22 04:32:22 UTC
I have never had a lockout situation happen so quickly and dramatically and had no chance to release as I have always thought I could do.
- And here I was thinking that there was no disadvantage to making the easy reach for one's Industry Standard release, that one could keep the glider tracking perfectly straight with the other hand. Oh well, I guess that only applies during a lockout onset.
- But Jeff Bohl stayed on tow until his appropriate weak link increased the safety of the towing operation and dumped him into his fatal inconvenience stall because he:
-- thought he could bring the glider back and didn't want the hassle or a relight - even with Davis's
Risk Mitigation Plan for the Quest Air Open assuring him a quick trip back to the head of the launch line
-- failed to appreciate the seriousness of his situation prior to the onset of his fatal inconvenience stall
Had this happened to me low to the ground it would have been disastrous.
- You mean like at around thirty feet - where Jeff had been a bit shy of seven months prior a little over twenty crow miles up the road when he stupidly decided to fly his glider with BOTH hands rather than make the easy reach to his Industry Standard release?
- Bullshit. You could have just:
-- pitched out abruptly to actuate your Voight/Rooney Instant Hands Free Release
-- used your Razor-sharp cutting tool to slash through your lines in an instant
I still feel this is a better design for a release...
Why?
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/12 18:00:27 UTC
Deltaman loves his mouth release.
BFD
I get tired as hell "refuting" all these mouth release and "strong link" arguments. Dig through the forums if you want that. I've been doing it for years but unfortunately the peddlers are religious in their beliefs so they find justification any way they can to "prove" their stuff. This is known as "Confirmation Bias"... seeking data to support your theory... it's back-asswards. Guess what? The shit doesn't work. If it did, we'd be using it everywhere. But it doesn't stand the test of reality.
'Cause you can ACTUALLY USE IT SUCCESSFULLY if it's connected and preflighted properly?
...but needed some polishing up. I would also say that I was using spectra line as my bridle, which is very small diameter and more easily caught.
And good idea not using weak links on BOTH ends of your stupidly overlength bridle.
Afterwards, I tried Dacron line and it too snagged but was easier to get loose. We are trying to contact the Russians who make these releases to advise them.
It's nice to have things idiot proof but I'm now seeing this as a non issue.
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7459/14026541561_c29a91247c_o.png
We've never had a single incident report before from Eastern Europe or anywhere else.
Dave Gills - 2016/12/14 07:14:29 UTC
After some manipulation, I could get my release to do the same thing.
It took a combination of some moronic Wallaby...
http://www.wallaby.com/aerotow_primer.php
Aerotow Primer for Experienced Pilots
The Wallaby Ranch Aerotowing Primer for Experienced Pilots - 2016/12/17
Welcome to Wallaby Ranch, the first and largest Aerotow Hang Gliding Flight Park in the World! We're the aerotowing (or "AT") professionals; no-one knows AT like we do; it's all we do, and we do it everyday, year-round.
...staffer's stupidity, negligence, incompetence and inattention from the "pilot" to get things fucked up enough to precipitate an incident.