Tandem crash in LV (speculation thread)
Ooh!SkyPoke - 2015/04/01 03:17:47 UTC
NE USA
I think the USHPA should just get out of the hang gliding and paragliding business - that way they'll have no reason to worry about being sued over a potentially avoidable accident. Let's change into the US Hodge Podge Association. Sell insurance and ratings under the table! What a concept!
Mr. Forbes,
I wonder, when a litigant's lawyer quotes anonymous gibberish posted on some forum web site is the USHPA's lawyer capable of refuting/debunking that type of unfounded - based on what facts - comment? Has the USHPA's lawyer ever won a lawsuit made against the association? If he has, has he asked the court to have the complaining (losing) party pay USHPA's legal bills? If not, he's not much of a lawyer.
Might also help if ALL HG/PG forums went private. Not a member (with a valid USHPA #) and you can't see the threads and posts (like over in Oz).
2015/04/01 10:49:28 UTC - Sink This! -- Jim Rowan
Almost as easily as the totally valid ones - which are Tim's specialty.Mark G. Forbes - 2015/04/01 03:46:29 UTC
Yes, such comments can be refuted.
Can it be taken and used in ways that I'm constantly praying for?All I'm asking is that folks be sensitive to the fact that what you say here is in public, and it can be taken and used in ways that you do not expect.
Using the tobacco industry's tactics as models.We have been generally successful at containing risk and fighting lawsuits.
Like you're doing now - trying to get productive discussions suppressed.It costs money and effort, and we try hard not to have things happen which result in lawsuits in the first place.
So much cheaper and easier than implementing and enforcing solid SOPs comparable to what people have in REAL aviation.That's why we have a waiver, for example. It's a contract that says you won't sue USHPA, other pilots, landowners, government agencies and so on.
And obviously you've never gotten sued for any totally legitimate reasons because u$hPa's record in safety and integrity has always been miles above any hint of justifiable reproach.Despite that waiver, sometimes people file lawsuits anyway. Sometimes we get sued for things that are only vaguely related to us.
We spare no measure in our never-ending battle to shield ourselves from liability - short, of course, of...All of these require legal defense, and failing to defend even a ridiculous claim is likely to result in a default judgment against us. All of that defense costs money and time, and we try not to incur more of it if we can avoid it.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27736
Increase in our USHpA dues
...ever doing anything to provide a safe product.Mark G. Forbes - 2012/12/20 06:21:33 UTC
We're re-working the accident reporting system, but again it's a matter of getting the reports submitted and having a volunteer willing to do the detail work necessary to get them posted. There are also numerous legal issues associated with accident reports, which we're still wrestling with. It's a trade-off between informing our members so they can avoid those kinds of accidents in the future, and exposing ourselves to even more lawsuits by giving plaintiff's attorneys more ammunition to shoot at us.
Imagine a report that concludes, "If we'd had a procedure "x" in place, then it would have probably prevented this accident. And we're going to put that procedure in place at the next BOD meeting." Good info, and what we want to be able to convey. But what comes out at trial is, "Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, my client suffered injury because USHPA knew or should have known that a safety procedure was not in place, and was therefore negligent and at fault." We're constantly walking this line between full disclosure and handing out nooses at the hangmen's convention.
You mean like the situation you have going now with your laughably bogus expulsion action against Bob Kuczewski?In the USA, the rule is that each party pays their own expenses. This is in contrast to Europe, where it's usually "loser pays" for both sides. That's partly why we have the legal system you see today. It is extraordinarily unlikely that a prevailing defendant can recover legal fees or costs from a plaintiff. To have that occur, you have to be able to prove that the case was absolutely without any merit, and the plaintiff and their attorneys knew that from the start.
Good.Even then, you're unlikely to get much of anything, and you may spend a small fortune trying to recover costs. Again, our waiver says that if you do sue in violation of the agreement, we can recover costs. In practice, that's very difficult to achieve.
If we were not generally successful in having lawsuits dismissed early, before they get really expensive, we wouldn't be here talking about USHPA at all. What we hope is that our insurance will be used for its intended purpose, the compensation of third-parties who are genuinely damaged by the actions of our members.
You pieces o' shit have it OPTIMIZED to cause serious injury or death. The focal point of your safe towing system has for over a third of a century been the exact equivalent of a dangerously frayed towline and you use a strategy to protect against unhooked launches which increases their frequency at least tenfold over doing nothing at all.Among ourselves, we agree (via the waiver) that we understand we're engaged in a risky sport that can cause serious injury or death.
That sure lets ratings officials, instructors, tow drivers, ride factories nicely off the hook...We each agree that we are personally and individually responsible for our own safety.
...don't it, Mark?Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974
"A bad flyer won't hurt a pin man but a bad pin man can kill a flyer." - Bill Bennett
Yeah...If we have an accident and get hurt, we agree in advance that it is solely our own fault, no matter what the circumstances might be.
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links
We know EXACTLY how you motherfuckers have this deck stacked.Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 13:47:23 UTC
Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.
Yeah muppets. If Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney's tow mast breakaway protector dumps you into a stall and leaves you quaded you're shit outta luck - regardless of the fact that Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney was knowingly and flagrantly violating FAA aerotowing regulations with his front end crap.We sign at the bottom saying that we fully understand these things, that we accept them, and that we know we are giving up the right to sue anybody if an accident happens.
And that's total fucking bullshit in ANY instructional issue and/or towing operation.Those are fundamental tenets of our sport. We are all individually responsible for ourselves and our safety.
I did. My only responsible option was to not fly.We need to see and avoid all other pilots, avoid crashing into people or property and use good judgment when flying.
OUR sport? You motherfuckers run an off-the-scale corrupt and evil monopoly from sea to shining sea controlling hang gliding and have the fucking gall to refer to hang gliding as OUR - read YOUR - sport? Rot in hell, Mark.If someone doesn't agree with those principles, then they don't need to be involved in our sport.
MY sport doesn't have scum like Tim Herr, Rich Haas, you, Davis, Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney within fifteen thousand miles of it - and that don't leave a whole lotta surface area on this planet.
I think you pieces o' shit are in serious trouble now. You invaded Russia with this expulsion action against Bob and at the worst (best) possible time you kill this cute li'l eleven year old kid. And the membership ain't real thrilled with the way things are going. And you know you're in serious trouble or you wouldn't have oozed out from under your rock to beg everyone to help shore up the Wall of Silence.
I'm really glad I'm not you guys right now having this shit blow up in my face. I'm ten times more optimistic now than I've ever been since I finally figured out what's been going on.
Big fuckin' surprise.2015/04/01 10:47:49 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Jim Rowan
----------------------------------------------------Yea You Brian !!
