FLPHG Wheel-Launch

[<BS>]

I liked this and may try it with a Doodle Bug. He's able to steer as you can see in the first video and one minute into the third video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqIsngIkVbI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np40IRkGYWE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwlue-CaxJk

[Steve Davy]

I've never seen that done before.

If I lived in the flats I might do something like that. Think I would just get a trike and enjoy the relaxed seating though. Maybe even install a cup holder on it.

[Tad Eareckson]

Gawd it's nice to have another person post here.

HUGE fan of flat ground and gliders taking off and landing on wheels but just a bit bothered by having to carry an engine and draggy stuff with me after it's served its purpose of getting me to workable altitude.

THIS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn01oWAHoUQ


has been one of the greatest ideas ever to come out of hang gliding. Yeah, you need someone to fly it back down but that wouldn't be a totally horrible job for somebody to take on a rotating and/or paid basis and you can keep reusing the engine, prop, takeoff gear after the unit has completed its mission for the last glider at the head of the line.

But, of course, since it's one of the greatest ideas ever to come out of hang gliding, the aerotow industry has kept it from getting into any significant level of circulation and will always continue to do so.

[<BS>]

I had concerns about the prop being so close and the possibility of the plane snagging then running into it.

Guidopicca - 4 years ago

Thank you pilots! About the questions: You can't go to the propeller because THE PILOT HAVE A STEEL WIRE fixed from the harness to the central tube during the fly. In the "tow" the control is only by the hang glider pilot because de control surfaces of the plane are very small to control both. And you don't like that nobody control you from the ground. About the height, in the first flight I reach 865 m.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHF7QBmy3qE

[<BS>]

I've never seen that done before.

If I lived in the flats I might do something like that. Think I would just get a trike and enjoy the relaxed seating though. Maybe even install a cup holder on it.

I too think a nano trike would be cool. One advantage of the motorized harness is the ability to fly hang gliders with less modifications. In this case you could wheel launch and land yet still be able to land in dry river beds strewn with boulders.

[Tad Eareckson]

One of my Kitty Hawk instructor senior colleagues (no recollection of his name, think he was from Washington state) back when I started teaching on the dunes in the fall of '80 was missing a toe or few courtesy of a Soarmaster - the keel mounted ancestor of the Mosquito stuff. I seem to recall that being a not uncommon issue with that machine.

I'd hop on that flying launch cart in a New York minute just based on fairly casual looks at the videos and other material Guido's released. You can be half blind and tell that a lot of brilliance, dedication, care, love, pride went into that project. Any worries we might have would've been thought about for months and thoroughly addressed.

And even if there WERE issues, what the hell... If you've got a solid basic concept like that the implementation can ALWAYS be engineered, tweaked, refined, perfected.

Compare/Contrast with Dragonfly aerotowing and all the ways people have been killed - deliberately - in that scene.

- Start off with a totally lunatic theory that a "center of mass" bridle and one G or less weak link will automatically prevent all evil from befalling the glider.

- Build a tug around the twenty times more lunatic theory that an untested single loop of 130 pound Greenspot fishing line will put all solo gliders and an untested double will put all tandem gliders at precisely 1.0 Gs.

- Use an untested front end weak link identical to the back end untested universal standard tandem weak link and build a tow mast that breaks away at the identical tension to the two aforementioned.

- Kill a tandem glider and both people on it when and because the tow mast breakaway breaks a way.

- Decide that you'd rather kill more tandem gliders than break any tow mast breakaways so use an even lighter front end weak link which one hundred percent guarantees the tandem will get the rope in flagrant disregard for its lives and FAA aerotow regulations.

- Sell all the gliders total shit for releases, force everybody to use them and nothing else, demolish safe and sane technology and the innovators when and where ever it and they rear their ugly heads

- Foster a fleet of totally shitheaded drivers which incessantly sings the praises of the unfathomable genius that worked out and forced us to use these systems.

- Make sure that whenever this crap kills someone it's entirely the stupid dead guy's fault.

This entire system and culture has a stench that's nauseating at the top - Bill and Bobby - and stays that way all the way down. And one has to be insane to trust one's life to this equipment and its perpetrators and enablers.

Those cart guys are a breath of fresh air, a tiny ray of hope, what I assumed hang gliding culture was and would always be when I first stepped into the swamp over 34 years ago.

[<BS>]

One of my Kitty Hawk instructor senior colleagues (no recollection of his name, think he was from Washington state) back when I started teaching on the dunes in the fall of '80 was missing a toe or few courtesy of a Soarmaster - the keel mounted ancestor of the Mosquito stuff. I seem to recall that being a not uncommon issue with that machine.

What are the odds? A friend and I met a Soarmaster survivor with similar injuries while looking for potential launches on a local mountain. He owned a prospective launch and granted permission, but we decided it was too dicey. That was early to mid '80s.

[Tad Eareckson]

Oh good. Whether or not we're both talking about the same guy my recollection about the issue of Soarmaster Syndrome isn't an Alzheimer's related phenomenon.

Observation...

There's a HUGE correlation between the evolution of on-board powered hang gliders and externally powered (towed) hang gliders.

It was intuitive to frame mount stuff - the way one does for conventional aircraft (in which that's all you have anyway). And once you've fallen victim to that mindset it's pretty tough to consider that the way to do it is to mount to the pilot part of the system.

And both the on-board and external power people understood that:

- you needed TWO hands at ALL times to fly a hang glider

- power at SOME point on EVERY flight WILL become a LETHAL threat and you needed a SAFE way to be able to KILL IT


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Jim (Scruffy) LeMieux - 1979/02
Mount Clemens, Michigan

I recently witnessed an incident with a motorized glider which I felt should be brought to everyone's attention. The pilot was flying a 215 Alpha with a Soarmaster unit he had slightly modified. Rather than the mouth throttle, he had a deadman's throttle on the control bar U-tube. He would lock the throttle in a wide open position while flying in order to have his hands free. He also had a kill switch which had to be held closed for a second in order to shut down the engine. I warned him of the danger involved, should he have to abort, but he replied, "We don't abort."

After flying all day without incident, one side of the propeller let loose at the hub. The pilot was 100 to 150 ft. in the air at the time. If you have ever seen the vibration caused by even a slightly out of balance prop, you can imagine the violent shaking caused by a prop with only one blade. The control bar shook so badly that the pilot could not find the throttle or kill switch. The glider was shaking so violently, he said it felt like he was being electrocuted. Fortunately, he was flying a stable and well built glider and was able to ride it down and land without damage.

The moral of the story is never use a throttle that is locked in position. No matter how uncomfortable the mouth throttle may be, it is the safest way. Also, I recommend the type of kill switch I personally use. It is a snowmobile type that has the base mounted on the control bar and a pin which pulls out to break the connection. The pin is attached to one end of a cord with the other end clipped on your sleeve. This way you need only to jerk your arm in order to kill the engine.

As I have had my flying wires break because of an out of balance prop, and I feel this latest accident could have been caused by the same thing, I can't stress strongly enough how important it is to check the balance of your prop every time you go out to fly.

The on-board people stayed on course.

The external people in 1981 simultaneously moved the thrust mount onto the pilot and the kill switch out to within easy reach.

07-300

11-311

15-413


Don't like the taste of our Kool-Aid? Go fuck yourself, go play checkers.

http://www.questairforce.com/aero.html

Quest Air

The strength of the weak link is crucial to a safe tow. It should be weak enough so that it will break before the pressure of the towline reaches a level that compromises the handling of the glider but strong enough so that it doesn't break every time you fly into a bit of rough air. A good rule of thumb for the optimum strength is one G, or in other words, equal to the total wing load of the glider.

A good rule of thumb for towing hang gliders that ISN'T total shit? If there's a compromise that you wouldn't make for on-board powered hang gliding don't make an analogous one for externally powered hang gliding.

[<BS>]

Oh good. Whether or not we're both talking about the same guy my recollection about the issue of Soarmaster Syndrome isn't an Alzheimer's related phenomenon.

I too had heard of the Soarmaster's issues and it could also be the same guy.

My knowledge of motorized harnesses is limited and towing even less. I think many motorized harnesses have mouth throttles, but few if any come equipped with a kill switch that you don't have to reach for. I could be wrong and maybe more have developed over the last couple of years. For example the Doodle Bug has a mouth throttle yet the kill switch is located on the harness frame located about hip level if standing or at the end of an arm rest if seated. I do remember reading about individual pilot remedies for kill switches that don't require letting go of the control bar (or down tubes for the Doodle Bug). I can't think of a good argument against the logic of being able to either kill the power on a motorized harness or release from tow without requiring one to let go of the control bar.

[Tad Eareckson]

My knowledge of motorized harnesses is limited and towing even less.

I don't really know anything about motorized harnesses but I'm totally confident that, just like towing, there's not much to it - much less in fact.

I think many motorized harnesses have mouth throttles...

I hope they all do - or a control cable going down one's sleeve I'd think would be better.

...but few if any come equipped with a kill switch that you don't have to reach for.

I would THINK that as long as you could instantly drop the power down to idle the reach free kill switch wouldn't be that big of a fuckin' deal.

I could be wrong and maybe more have developed over the last couple of years. For example the Doodle Bug has a mouth throttle yet the kill switch is located on the harness frame located about hip level if standing or at the end of an arm rest if seated.

Sounds like something I could live with - although I'm open to worst case scenario discussion.

I do remember reading about individual pilot remedies for kill switches that don't require letting go of the control bar (or down tubes for the Doodle Bug).

In vanilla hang gliding we've got individual pilot remedies for confirming that the pilot's hooked in just prior to launch for the benefit of all the individual pilots who wouldn't consider doing any form of hook-in check just prior to launch with individual guns put to their individual heads. Nothing like hang gliding for developing dangerous solutions for problems that don't exist.

I can't think of a good argument against the logic of being able to either kill the power on a motorized harness or release from tow without requiring one to let go of the control bar.

The logic of The Industry not providing releases that...

Steve Kinsley - 1996/05/09 15:50

Personal opinion. While I don't know the circumstances of Frank's death and I am not an awesome tow type dude, I think tow releases, all of them, stink on ice. Reason: You need two hands to drive a hang glider. You 'specially need two hands if it starts to turn on tow. If you let go to release, the glider can almost instantly assume a radical attitude. We need a release that is held in the mouth. A clothespin. Open your mouth and you're off.

...don't stink on ice...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh3-uZptNw0
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh3-uZptNw0[/video]

...is that starting to provide ones that actually work would be a de facto confession to a decades long killing spree.

I met Frank - Sauber - on the Outer Banks, Easter weekend, beginning of April 1980 when I was taking my first lessons. I later worked with him for eight years, signing him his two, mentoring and sponsoring him in the mountains.

He wanted to get his Three but had reverted back to wheel landings only - which I belatedly realized had been a real good idea - and went out on 1996/04/28 with another instructor, the late Santos Mendoza (who'd signed my Four) and his scooter tow setup to relearn foot landings for the requirements. Locked out at fifty feet and died in the course of Flight Two. He'd never been scratched in the course of his seventeen year career prior to that. Too bad the weak link didn't work when it was supposed to.

Easy reach... Good enough. Just don't wait...

Bill Bryden - 2000/02

Dennis Pagen informed me several years ago about an aerotow lockout that he experienced. One moment he was correcting a bit of alignment with the tug and the next moment he was nearly upside down. He was stunned at the rapidity. I have heard similar stories from two other aerotow pilots.

...until things start getting really bad.