Re: 2005/09/03 AT crash
Posted: 2014/07/31 20:20:28 UTC
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=865
Tandem pilot and passenger death
Back to you, Mike...
http://www.wallaby.com/aerotow_primer.php
Aerotow Primer for Experienced Pilots
TODAY and read the exact same outrageous load o' pure unadulterated crap.
Is this a joke ?
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=12682
Landing on your feet (for AEROTOW)- So Dangerous
37-23223
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3713/9655904048_89cce6423a_o.png
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg
Fuck that, Michael - in the spirit in which you intended it. Nobody who needs to pay attention to ANY individual in order to grasp ANY essentials of aviation - 'specially something as brain dead two-plus-two-equals-four obvious and fundamental as a thrust failure is a BAD thing - has any goddam business ever flying ANYTHING. Probably needs his driver's license permanently revoked as well just to be on the safe side.
Tandem pilot and passenger death
Back to you, Mike...
I've read it in the magazine:Michael Bradford - 2005/09/15 01:41:35
Matt Taber's speculative analysis in The Oz Report today describes a fact so simple as to be easily overlooked. I too have heard tandem instructors pontificate that one cannot stall on tow.
You can go to:The Wallaby Ranch Aerotowing Primer for Experienced Pilots - 1998/02
by Austin Scott Collins, USHGA Aerotow Pilot. Based on instructional information developed by David Glover and Malcolm Jones, USHGA Advanced Tandem Instructors. Copyright 1998 by Florida Hang Gliding, Inc.
The pilot fails to anticipate the tug's quick climb-out after launch, gets low, and then doesn't push out far enough to climb up. Remember: it is almost impossible to stall under aerotow. The induced thrust vector makes the glider trim at a higher attitude. It is OK to push way out; you will climb, not stall.
Should you find yourself low behind the tug, you may need to actually push out on the control bar forcefully, resulting in a "past normal" bar position, that in non-towing situations would lead to a stall. However, because of the "pull" of the tow line, this action will result in a CLIMB, and not a stall. Stay with the tug using pitch input. If you are low, PUSH OUT!
http://www.wallaby.com/aerotow_primer.php
Aerotow Primer for Experienced Pilots
TODAY and read the exact same outrageous load o' pure unadulterated crap.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846This may be arguable, but only by those who enjoy argument.
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 04:55:25 UTC
Ditto dude.
It always amazes to hear know it all pilots arguing with the professional pilots.
I mean seriously, this is our job.
We do more tows in a day than they do in a month (year for most).
We *might* have an idea of how this stuff works.
They *might* do well to listen.
Not that they will, mind you... cuz they *know*.
I mean seriously... ridgerodent's going to inform me as to what Kroop has to say on this? Seriously? Steve's a good friend of mine. I've worked at Quest with him. We've had this discussion ... IN PERSON. And many other ones that get misunderstood by the general public. It's laughable.
Don't even get me started on Tad. That obnoxious blow hard has gotten himself banned from every flying site that he used to visit... he doesn't fly anymore... because he has no where to fly. His theories were annoying at best and downright dangerous most of the time. Good riddance.
So, argue all you like.
I don't care.
I've been through all these arguments a million times... this is my job.
I could be more political about it, but screw it... I'm not in the mood to put up with tender sensibilities... Some weekend warrior isn't about to inform me about jack sh*t when it comes to towing. I've got thousands upon thousands of tows under my belt. I don't know everything, but I'll wager the house that I've got it sussed a bit better than an armchair warrior.
But not a weak link break, of course. That always increases the safety of the towing operation - at the expense of...It may be difficult to stall while on tow, but the problem does not occur while on tow... technically, it occurs during towing operations, after a release. Don't forget that release can come at any moment, and uninvited.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks
...a bit of inconvenience now and then.Davis Straub - 2013/03/06 18:29:05 UTC
You know, after all this discussion I'm now convinced that it is a very good idea to treat the weaklink as a release, that that is exactly what we do when we have a weaklink on one side of a pro tow bridle. That that is exactly what has happened to me in a number of situations and that the whole business about a weaklink only for the glider not breaking isn't really the case nor a good idea for hang gliding.
I'm happy to have a relatively weak weaklink, and have never had a serious problem with the Greenspot 130, just an inconvenience now and then.
Total...The resultant abrupt stall happens when the tug's energy is instantly subtracted from the system.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=12682
Landing on your feet (for AEROTOW)- So Dangerous
...bullshit.Jack Axaopoulos - 2009/06/29 14:26:26 UTC
OMG!!! You dont even have wheels!!?!?!?!?
YOURE GONNA DIE FOR SUUUUREE!!!!
I have a brilliant idea. People who cant land for sh*t.... LEARN TO LAND That way when a weak link breaks on you, ITS A NON-ISSUE. Genius huh???
Shove it up your ass. It's an inconvenience.And it is functionally equivalent to sudden power loss when flying a powered aircraft at or near full throttle, below Vx speed.
I wouldn't do that if I were you. Just 'cause two people are on the same page with two plus two equals four doesn't mean they should immediately jump into bed with each other.Having survived such an event in a powered aircraft many years ago (the aircraft was totaled,) I will side with Matt.
Why? How is that idea any more lethal than the, "You cannot launch unhooked after you've had a hang check." idea? How 'bout a different tack? How 'bout we PROMOTE it to the HILT? Why do we wanna keep any of the stupid fucks who could swallow this shit under any circumstances sticking around continuing to stink up the sport and the gene pool?Regardless of its relevance to this incident, it's really really important to dispel this idea that "you cannot stall while towing."
What do you tell them about standard aerotow weak links and Dragonfly tow mast breakaways?For years I've told my story to friends, students and strangers alike, with the warning that when the power disappears, "You cannot count to one. It might as well be a balloon drop. If the ground is near, never never never venture on the backside of the pitch curve."
By means, of course, of a traditional release that can only be used in traditional conditions and traditional circumstances.Before Paris Williams soloed me during training, he threw me a traditional pinoff at 20 feet...
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8394/8696380718_787dbc0005_o.png...to test my reaction. "I've never seen anyone react quite that quickly," he told me after I lowered the nose and flew the glider onto the grass. "Can't count to one," I told him.
37-23223
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3713/9655904048_89cce6423a_o.png
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg
The outcome of the "investigation" of this "accident" will be obfuscation, coverup, and an even MORE dangerous towing environment with the same sociopaths still firmly in control.Whatever the outcome of the investigation of this accident...
And Trisa, Davis, Paul and Lauren, Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt, Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney, Mike Dead-Eye Robertson, Jack, Bob, Sam, all the other duplicitous pieces of shit running and in this game....please pay attention to Matt.
Fuck that, Michael - in the spirit in which you intended it. Nobody who needs to pay attention to ANY individual in order to grasp ANY essentials of aviation - 'specially something as brain dead two-plus-two-equals-four obvious and fundamental as a thrust failure is a BAD thing - has any goddam business ever flying ANYTHING. Probably needs his driver's license permanently revoked as well just to be on the safe side.