Releases

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Releases

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34646
Are you satisfied with flex wing handling qualities?
Ryan Voight - 2016/08/22 20:14:50 UTC

The reason this is a trick question, is the same reason it should be irrelevant that the Lookout release has less mechanical advantage, and may be difficult to use during the high tension of a lock-out. There are other releases (no so common anymore, thankfully) that could become full-on inoperable when the tension increased...

So... are you willing and able to manually release when you believe you are entering an unrecoverable lockout? Hint- if you are *entering* an unrecoverable lockout... you should have already A) steered yourself back where you belong, and if you were unable to do A then do B) release before before BEFORE entering an unrecoverable lockout situation.

Failing to fly the glider where you want it to fly is a serious situation... a lockout is an even more serious situation, but it is a symptom that follows that first problem. Failing to recognize the first problem, and remedy or escape *BEFORE* the following lockout ensues... THAT is what people seem not to get here.

Davis wrote pretty extensively about this when the comp-fatality happened, and even shared how the comp rules were written to ENCOURAGE "when in doubt, just get out". Frankly, a lockout should never happen... it's not a single failure, and it's not a problem with the equipment or with the mechanics or physics of what is being attempted... a lockout can only happen as the result of operator error(S)... plural.
And then...
2016/08/22 20:27:46 UTC - 3 thumbs up - NMERider
2016/08/22 20:29:02 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Don Arsenault
...Jonathan, there's the REAL world...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25536
Whoops! Snapped another tip wand :-O
NMERider - 2012/03/14 15:17:14 UTC

Landing clinics don't help in real world XC flying. I have had the wind do 180 degree 15 mph switches during my final legs. What landing clinic have you ever attended that's going to help? I saved that one by running like a motherfukker. And BTW - It was on large rocks on an ungroomed surface.

When I come in on many of these flights with sloppy landings, I am often physically and mentally exhausted. That means fatigued to the max. Many times I can't even lift my glider and harness, I'm so pooped.

This is the price of flying real XC. I have seen many great pilots come in and land on record-setting flights and they literally just fly into the ground and pound in. I kid you not.

None of this is any excuse mind you. There has to be a methodology for preparing to land safely and cleanly while exhausted. This is NOT something I have worked on.

Jim Rooney threw a big tantrum and stopped posting here.

His one-technique-fits-all attitude espoused on the Oz Report Forum has become tiresome to read. It does not work in the fucked-up world of XC landings and weary pilots.
NMERider - 2012/03/14 15:43:09 UTC

I refuse to come in with both hands on the downtubes ever again. I have had some very powerful thermals and gusts kick off and lost control of the glider due to hands on the downtubes. I prefer both hands on the control bar all the way until trim and ground effect. I have been lifted right off the deck in the desert and carried over 150 yards.

I like what Steve Pearson does when he comes in and may adapt something like that.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27086
Steve Pearson on landings
Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05 UTC

I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.
...in which the air actually MOVES.
Bill Bryden - 2000/02

Dennis Pagen informed me several years ago about an aerotow lockout that he experienced. One moment he was correcting a bit of alignment with the tug and the next moment he was nearly upside down. He was stunned at the rapidity. I have heard similar stories from two other aerotow pilots.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9Ek9_lFeSII/UZ4KuB0MUSI/AAAAAAAAGyU/eWfhGo4QeqY/s1024/GOPR5278.JPG
Image
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Xh_NfnOcUns/UZ4Lm0HvXnI/AAAAAAAAGyk/0PlgrHfc__M/s1024/GOPR5279.JPG

So Jonathan... Please tell us why you recognize that having a hand off the basetube on a landing approach can precipitate a lethal loss of control yet is a total nonissue on...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=48425
Oregon flying on the edge
Davis Straub - 2016/07/12 19:25:33 UTC

I am thinking that perhaps the conditions had little to nothing to do with this accident. I'm thinking that the pilot made a mistake, letting go of the bar with one hand. and the pitch became far too great far too fast.
...a pro toad aerotow launch. Davis Dead-On Straub's take is that being so configured for a fraction of a second can be a death sentence for a Hang Four comp airline pilot in glass - even one who's been promised a trip back to the head of the launch line as an extra incentive for safe decision making.

So people of varying ages... Y'all catch this?

Not one of these Jack Show motherfuckers has ever challenged Jonathan's assessment that with both hands on the downtubes on final one can instantly and irrevocably become a passenger along for a long ride with an uncertain conclusion. Ditto with respect to Steve Pearson's totally unambiguous similar and even more definitive statement.

But if you're a pro toad behind a Dragonfly at the same twenty feet at the same Boychick World runway there can be neither a significant conditions induced control compromise nor any control penalty for actuating an easily reachable Industry Standard bent pin release (the kind Bart Weghorst needs two hands to pull apart after it's welded itself shut under normal range tow tension).

You are, for all practical purposes, perfectly safe flying with one hand on the basetube at twenty feet in violent thermal turbulence on tow behind a Dragonfly but the instant you enter free flight mode - as a consequence of either releasing, being released, or having your Rooney Link increase the safety of the towing operation - you immediately need both hands on the basetube to keep or get the glider turned upwind for a safe return to terra firma.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links
Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 19:49:30 UTC

It's more of this crappy argument that being on tow is somehow safer than being off tow.
Very interesting corner these motherfuckers have painted themselves into.
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<BS>
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Re: Releases

Post by <BS> »

Nah, just use the instant hands free release method and loop back to the front of the line.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Releases

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Funny how silent the proponents of instant hands free releases always fall in the aftermaths of Jeff Bohl type lockout fatalities.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up
Ryan Voight - 2009/11/03 05:24:31 UTC

It works best in a lockout situation... if you're banked away from the tug and have the bar back by your belly button... let it out. Glider will pitch up, break weaklink, and you fly away.

During a "normal" tow you could always turn away from the tug and push out to break the weaklink... but why would you?

Have you never pondered what you would do in a situation where you CAN'T LET GO to release? I'd purposefully break the weaklink, as described above. Instant hands free release Image
Jim Rooney - 2009/11/03 06:16:56 UTC

God I love the ignore list Image

Tad loves to have things both ways.
First weaklinks are too weak, so we MUST use stronger ones. Not doing so is reckless and dangerous.
Then they're too strong.

I have no time for such circular logic.
I had it with that crap years ago.

As for being in a situation where you can't or don't want to let go, Ryan's got the right idea. They're called "weak" links for a reason. Overload that puppy and you bet your ass it's going to break.

You can tell me till you're blue in the face about situations where it theoretically won't let go or you can drone on and on about how "weaklinks only protect the glider" (which is BS btw)... and I can tell ya... I could give a crap, cuz just pitch out abruptly and that little piece of string doesn't have a chance in hell. Take your theory and shove it... I'm saving my a$$.
Picture perfect setup. Just didn't bother to execute the flying away component of the sequence.

WESH2-05
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7077/27082298482_cda1aba01b_o.png
Image

Go figure.
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<BS>
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Re: Releases

Post by <BS> »

Well obviously you can't let go when you're in a situation where you CAN'T LET GO to release. So you need to NOT LET GO and let that bar out. Easy peasy, just don't try it one handed 'cause you need both for it to work. In summary, if you're ever in a situation where you CAN LET GO to release, by all means do so. Any other time, just push out with BOTH hands on the control bar (or tubes, if that's where you find yourself) and fly away.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Releases

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Reading Boychick's 2016/08/22 20:14:50 UTC post one certainly must wonder how he became such a consummate expert on this technique. Also the conspicuous absence of protest when so many of us suddenly became happy with the two hundred pound Tad-O-Links which inevitably render the technique considerably more problematic.

And then there's the Dragonfly to consider...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3380
Lauren and Paul in Zapata
Lauren Tjaden - 2008/07/21 14:27:04 UTC

Zapata has delivered as promised, day after day with howling winds and good lift, where flights of over 100 miles (and much more) are possible.

Yesterday I chased Paul again. The tow rope weak link broke when Paul locked out and the weak link he got from Tad did not break. Russell said it was about the worst he has ever had his tail pulled around. Anyhow, I would advise against those weak links, though Tad's barrel releases do seem better able to release under stress. After Russell got a new rope and Paul recovered, he was late leaving and got trapped under some cirrus.
A tandem strength weak link on a solo glider really jeopardizes the tug in a lockout. And now deliberate two handed lockouts in low level emergencies when you can't let go of the control bar with one hand lest you lock out? (Not to mention that now you just fly away with 250 feet of two thousand pound Spectra draped over your basetube.)
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Releases

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8311348069/
Image

http://www.kitestrings.org/post504.html#p504

And here's the photo I took down:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/14026541561/
Barrel Release Connection - Wrong
Image
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7459/14026541561_c29a91247c_o.png

after a short span for the reasons I stated in the above referenced post and also because the Forces of Darkness and Stupidity would use it as ammunition to maintain their cheap bent pin shit in circulation.

Well, fuck everything.

- The Forces of Darkness and Stupidity are gonna maintain their cheap bent pin shit in circulation until Hell freezes over anyway; and

- I'd welcome with open arms the improvement in the gene pool we'd get through the elimination of any and all pin flippers. (Joe Street has informed me that there HAVE been people stupid enough to connect his mechanism in lock mode.)

With the three-string:
Image
an analogous situation:
Image
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164-20729
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8649/16488797369_9b8f9f9d89_o.png
Image

Mission response options:

- Teach students how to hook up a state-of-the-art three-string.

- Go to an even more state-of-the-art, simple, and TYPICAL two-string that everyone with ten or better percent of normal brain function knows can only be blown at wave-off when the driver has backed the towline PRESSURE down. (How'd that work out for ya, Nancy Tachibana?)

Interesting that when Kelly Harrison fucked up his TYPICAL two-string release (according to u$hPa's limited release bullshit report), didn't bother with his parachute, and...

http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5788/23461251751_e98b9c7500_o.png
Image

...killed himself and his eleven year old tandem "student" (two years and six days ago) u$hPa published neither a description of the fucked up connection nor a recommendation to go to a one-string as a less complex, simpler, safer alternative.
---
Edit - 2017/04/02 22:00:00 UTC

Aw hell, just discovered I'd already posted that restored photo twice before.
http://www.kitestrings.org/post9841.html#p9841
http://www.kitestrings.org/post9852.html#p9852
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Releases

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/20.155
Russian Mouth Release
Davis Straub - 2016/08/03 14:58:43 UTC

Checking it out

Burke "Bruno" Schnedl <<rdufokker>> writes:
John Maloney and I were able to test the Russian Mouth Release using a scooter tow. I made several tows and released while on the cart, then made several more towing up to around 20ft and then releasing.

I was able to be in a 20 degree bank on the last one and release. The releases were immediate and very easy. Hands never moved off the base tube. I used a pro tow setup with barrel release on right side.

The release seems to be very well made with durable parts. The mouth bite is not the most comfortable and could use some modification.
The video here.

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- 01 - chronological order
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- 16 - frame (30 fps)

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<BS>
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Re: Releases

Post by <BS> »

Instinct Windsports
Pro Tow Barrel Release - Minimalist
http://instinct.pro/collections/instinct-made/products/pro-tow-barrel-release-minimalist
Image
Image
The ultimate Pro-Tow Barrel release for hang gliding! Often, the simplest design is the best.

Light-weight - weighs only a couple of ounces

Tiny - hangs down after release from tow the least. This makes it the easiest to stash away in your chest zippers or produces the least drag if you leave it hang during flight.

Easiest to pull - uses a straight stainless steel pin which has the benefit of maintaining the same, sharp angle to the barrel wall throughout the entire pull. This is important when releasing under excess tension (ie an emergency situation). Curved pins have slightly higher pressures during the release process...every bit helps in the case of emergency!

Rubberized barrel - no exposed metal barrel to scratch your helmet or visor

Strong - uses 1600lb Amsteel Blue Spectra - your glider will break before the release will!

Over-all length is only 6" (excluding the pin)...and the barrel cannot come off as the rope at the base is doubled-up rendering the barrel unable to slide off if/when removed from your harness.

It's prudent to have as many options to release from tow ropes as possible. We recommend having a barrel release on either shoulder and of course carry a hook knife in case both barrel releases fail. Replace your weak-links often but never count on them breaking!

Even though Instinct is a big fan of stationary towing, we strongly recommend AGAINST using barrel releases for ANY winch towing (payout, scooter, stationary). We believe these push-pull releases are the best option for that but still only recommend using a Koch-style 2-stage release (VERY hard to find).

If you want spectra tow bridles, a pair can be added below. They are made out of 7/64" Amsteel Spectra....it is from our used tow rope so the line is faded (that is why they are cheap!)...but still ample strong for aero-towing bridles.

Here is an interesting story on why NOT to use your shoulder barrel release first if you are also towing from the keel. IF it snags on the tow rope, it would induce an instant tuck and you can never count on your weak-link breaking
There's some homemade funkiness with no trail and error.
Steve Davy
Posts: 1338
Joined: 2011/07/18 10:37:38 UTC

Re: Releases

Post by Steve Davy »

<BS> wrote:Instinct Windsports
Pro Tow Barrel Release - Minimalist
http://instinct.pro/collections/instinct-made/products/pro-tow-barrel-release-minimalist
Image
Image
The ultimate Pro-Tow Barrel release for hang gliding! Often, the simplest design is the best.

Light-weight - weighs only a couple of ounces

Tiny - hangs down after release from tow the least. This makes it the easiest to stash away in your chest zippers or produces the least drag if you leave it hang during flight.

Easiest to pull - uses a straight stainless steel pin which has the benefit of maintaining the same, sharp angle to the barrel wall throughout the entire pull. This is important when releasing under excess tension (ie an emergency situation). Curved pins have slightly higher pressures during the release process...every bit helps in the case of emergency!

Rubberized barrel - no exposed metal barrel to scratch your helmet or visor

Strong - uses 1600lb Amsteel Blue Spectra - your glider will break before the release will!

Over-all length is only 6" (excluding the pin)...and the barrel cannot come off as the rope at the base is doubled-up rendering the barrel unable to slide off if/when removed from your harness.

It's prudent to have as many options to release from tow ropes as possible. We recommend having a barrel release on either shoulder and of course carry a hook knife in case both barrel releases fail. Replace your weak-links often but never count on them breaking!

Even though Instinct is a big fan of stationary towing, we strongly recommend AGAINST using barrel releases for ANY winch towing (payout, scooter, stationary). We believe these push-pull releases are the best option for that but still only recommend using a Koch-style 2-stage release (VERY hard to find).

If you want spectra tow bridles, a pair can be added below. They are made out of 7/64" Amsteel Spectra....it is from our used tow rope so the line is faded (that is why they are cheap!)...but still ample strong for aero-towing bridles.

Here is an interesting story on why NOT to use your shoulder barrel release first if you are also towing from the keel. IF it snags on the tow rope, it would induce an instant tuck and you can never count on your weak-link breaking
There's some homemade funkiness with no trail and error.
I hope that the base has been stitched together within the barrel.
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Tad Eareckson
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Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: Releases

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Naw, it's MINIMALIST. Cantchya READ?

Often, the simplest design is the best. Stitching would add complexity and thus increase the likelihood of failure. (Can't really figure out why "we" strongly and only recommend the VERY hard to find Koch two stage for ANY winch towing when it's about 85 times more likely to fail than the Minimalist Pro Tow Barrel Release.)

Sleazy goddam motherfucker.
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