Releases

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Releases

Post by Tad Eareckson »

You should probably get in touch with Steve Wendt. He's exceptionally knowledgeable.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17404
Aerotow barrel release - straight or curved pin?
Jim Rooney - 2010/05/31 01:53:13 UTC

BTW, Steve Wendt is exceptionally knowledgeable. Hell, he's the one that signed off my instructor rating.
Hell, he's the one that signed off Rooney's instructor rating.

He already has the fat barrel down for all of his shoulder releases...

Image

...and the bent pins are - in effect - short pins. Plus he has the barrel length down to about two thirds of a hand width so one can't effect much of a grip on it.

So I really don't know what more one could be looking for.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Releases

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Update from:

http://www.kitestrings.org/post3024.html#p3024

Arizona Hang Gliding and Paragliding Forum
http://www.azhpa.org/azhpa_forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=6907
Scott Buxton - 2013/01/05 04:11
Goodyear, Arizona

Bob Buxton going Home

Dads, coming home Saturday 1/5/13 I'm so happy. Thank you all for all you prayers.
The New year is starting out with a bang. We are bringing Dad home from Health South rehab on Sat 1/5. The feeding tube comes out Friday! He can eat anything he wants. Stand-by assist for all activities. Mom will get some help at home with the Long term care insurance. Our prayers continue to be answered. Thank you Jesus.
Steve Konves - 2013/01/05 13:56
Flagstaff

My steam-room prayer list keeps getting longer. Bob started it. He'll still be # 1 on the list. Praise God from whom all blessings flow. Praise him all creatures here below. And the ones up high. Bob will be joining us one of these days.
Gingher Leyendecker - 2013/01/05 16:11
Mesa

Yay Bob!! You continue to be in our thoughts and prayers. What a fighter!!
Gingh and Jim
Yeeeehaaaaw!
Scott Buxton - 2013/01/07 12:20

Thank You everyone, For all you thoughts and prayers. We are all very Happy to have Dad home.

Mom Wrote:
Bob came home yesterday afternoon as planned. Doing well, Scott helped out and spent the night. We will be busy this week adjusting to him being home, setting up appts for outpatient rehab and Dr appts. I will also work on getting help in the home through a home health agency. We will eventually get in a routine and get on with life. I thank God every day for his recovery and pray that the transition to home goes well. Have a wonderful Sunday.
Sam Schippers - 2013/01/08 03:55
Tonopah, Nevada

We are all very happy to have him home as well.
-
"Your reward can be no greater that the input"
Dads, coming home Saturday 1/5/13 I'm so happy.
After a bit over a hundred days of hospitalization.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27396
Scooter tow faillure... or Never Land On Your Face
Mitch Shipley - 2012/10/22 19:04:16 UTC

We engage in a sport that has risk and that is part of the attraction.
Must've been loads of fun. (And DO let me thank him for demonstrating just how risky platform launch towing is so that I can enjoy the sport a lot more than I would have otherwise.)

So what's the price tag so far... six or seven figures?
Our prayers continue to be answered. Thank you Jesus.
Yeah, good work Jesus. Helps make up for all those other glider jockeys you've allowed to be crippled and killed and for letting this guy start rolling with a bridle routed over the basetube and a release that stinks on ice.

By the way... What were you up to on 2012/06/16 when Terry was oscillating shortly after his platform launch and Good Neighbor Sam was reaching for the dump lever? Terry was a big fan of yours. (Tell him I said hi and that I'm thankful he died doing something he loved.)
Yay Bob!! You continue to be in our thoughts and prayers. What a fighter!!
Yeah Bob!!! Way to slam back into the surface and come out alive. Guess you showed Mother Earth a thing or two!
We will eventually get in a routine and get on with life.
And undoubtedly much better ones than you had before.

If you stupid motherfuckers had pulled your heads out of your asses and stopped praying long enough to start thinking and put about 0.0002 percent of just the economic cost of this one alone into technology which would have allowed him to blow the bridle clear of his hips at the first sign of trouble with his hands on the basetube he could've aborted, landed, and given it another shot.
"Your reward can be no greater that the input"
Well stated, Sam. Almost exactly what I was thinking.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=18868
Almost lockout
Ryan Voight - 2010/09/07 02:50:00 UTC

Weak link in truck towing WILL (read: should) still break in a lockout situation... but as everyone has already pointed out, it takes a lot longer because the glider can continue to pull line off the winch.

There is a limit to how fast line can come off the winch though... so the forces still build up, and the weaklink still fails.
Fuck you, Ryan.
Zack C
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Re: Releases

Post by Zack C »

Tad,

Previously you said
Tad Eareckson wrote:Because the Bailey Release has such abysmal mechanical advantage the curved M111C pin doesn't rotate with much speed/force/energy but that straight pin WILL do some damage at a high tow load.
Does this mean that for the same load a straight pin will rotate back with more angular speed than a curved one? And that a longer pin will rotate back with more angular speed than a shorter one?

Thanks,
Zack
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Releases

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Yeah, bull's-eye.

The more efficient the mechanism the less you wanna get in the way of its business component when it's doing its job. If you ever hafta make a choice between getting flogged with a short piece of heavy rope and getting flogged with a bullwhip...
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Releases

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28305
Bob Buxton Truck Tow Accident Video
Scott Buxton (I Soar AZ) - 2013/02/10 10:17:16 UTC
Phoenix

Bob Buxton Truck Tow Accident Video
Bob Buxton Truck Tow WHAT Video?
Hello,

I am posting this for my Dad, Bob Buxton. My Dad wants to make the video of his truck towing accident...
...crash...
...on (2012/10/03) public so that others may learn from his mistake.
- Mistakes.
- Not just his.
- Good freakin' luck.
The cause of the accident was tow line was hook up over the control bar.
And...?
Pilot error.
PILOTS errors. As is ALWAYS the case when a glider is taking off from flat ground, there was more than one person flying it and when one crashes it's damn near always due to mistakes made at both ends of the string.
Bob has been Hang gliding 38 years incident free.
Bullshit. It's a SERIOUS incident whenever one...
- slope launches minus a hook-in check a couple of seconds prior
- aerotow launches with a:
-- standard aerotow weak link
-- release that stinks on ice
and it's a notable incident incident whenever one...
- truck tow launches with a release that stinks on ice
regardless of how many times the "pilot" gets away with it.
Mostly mountain flying.
Nobody in Arizona has ever even HEARD of a hook-in check.
He has truck towed a handful of times. He knew the tow line was supposed to go under the base bar. Just made a mistake hooking it up.
Oh no dude. Also made mistakes in:
- not preflighting
- going up configured such that he had NO SAFE OPTION for releasing himself
- towing with total idiots on the front end
Bob wants everyone to know he takes full responsibility for the incident and there is no one to blame but himself.
Donnell Hewett and the vast majority of people who've been involved in hang glider towing in the third of a century since he started institutionalizing his lunacy are also to blame.
What we...
Define "we"?
...can learn from this accident is have a checklist, go through the checklist and make sure everything is good to go before take off and flying.
Yeah, like nobody's ever heard of doing that before.
Not just truck towing. Have a checklist and go through it every time you fly.
Yes. I'm sure everyone has been standing at launch at Mingus looking at little three by five cards in the moments before launch in the months since this one and that they've been a really big help.
Bob is still recovering at Health South Rehab Facility in Glendale. Bob suffered a severe head injury (bleeding on the brain). He still has a long road ahead of him in recovering. Bob wants to say thank you for all the thoughts and prayers.
Well, prayers anyway. There's virtually never any more in the way of THOUGHTS occurring after one of these than there was immediately before. But PRAYERS? You can't FIND a better crowd in the prayer department.

And I'd personally like to add that if he had to get his head smashed in at least he got it smashed in doing something he loved.
007-04101
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3679/13745950735_90aabe780a_o.png
Image

0:41 - Really cool the way they engineered the platform system so the PILOT can RELEASE THE GLIDER FROM THE TRUCK WITH *BOTH* HANDS ON THE *CONTROL* BAR. I like that. Good thinking.

And for the next NINE SECONDS he's a PASSENGER...

016-04308
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3799/13746342624_c9b015f814_o.png
Image
022-04610
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2809/13746340634_a74b33d285_o.png
Image

...a DOPE ON A ROPE - totally incapable of affecting anything in the emergency other maintaining some countering action to misrouted tow force and waiting for the inevitable full tension lockout and impact.

Funny that the weak link didn't fail.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=18868
Almost lockout
Ryan Voight - 2010/09/07 02:50:00 UTC

Weak link in truck towing WILL (read: should) still break in a lockout situation... but as everyone has already pointed out, it takes a lot longer because the glider can continue to pull line off the winch.

There is a limit to how fast line can come off the winch though... so the forces still build up, and the weaklink still fails.
I've always heard that it would. And, of course...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up
Ryan Voight - 2009/11/03 05:24:31 UTC

Glider will pitch up, break weaklink, and you fly away.
...always in plenty of time to let you fly away.

And...
HANG GLIDING FOR BEGINNER PILOTS
By Peter Cheney
Published by Matt Taber
Official Flight Training Manual of the U. S. Hang Gliding Association

Towing equipment

- Hook knife: A hook knife is a razor-sharp cutting tool that can slash through lines in an instant. You should never tow without one - in an emergency, you can use it to cut the tow-line or bridle. The hook knife must be mounted on your harness so that you can reach it quickly and easily.
...did anyone notice if he even HAD a hook knife?
Wayne Ripley - 2013/02/10 12:10:11 UTC
Cromwell, Connecticut

I don't know anything about truck towing...
That's OK, Wayne. It's pretty fucking obvious that nobody else does either.
...so please don't take this as anything but the need to know but, can the guy in the back release the line and would that have helped?
Since it's pretty fucking obvious that the guy whose ass is on the line has no ability to do so.

Absolutely ASTOUNDING the success Donnell, Peter, Steve Wendt, Ryan, Wills Wing, USHGA, the Flight Park Mafia have had in brainwashing the hang gliding public to the point that it can no longer even CONCEIVE of the concept of the PILOT being able to release himself in an emergency.

088-05301
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3708/13746233274_c1a80f35c1_o.png
Image

P.S. Isn't anybody gonna comment on that salad bowl on a string he was using for a helmet? I think this would be a really good time to discuss the best kind of helmet to have when you're truck towing with a release that stinks on ice.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Releases

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Sign of possible intelligent life form on The Jack Show:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28305
Bob Buxton Truck Tow Accident Video
Ttsjeff - 2013/02/12 00:35:54 UTC

I am thankful for this thread (not the accident) (and the tragic aerotow thread) as it has made review my release system and look for a solution to a hands free release.

After researching and sitting with my harness I think I have a solution. I use a link knife rigged as my primary release. I am certain that I have figured a way to have a mouth release along with a hand release for high altitudes.

I am getting supplies tomorrow and will rig and test. If it works I will post a video.
Maybe someone could get him pointed in the right direction and save him the effort of having to reinvent any wheels we might already have taken care of.
Zack C
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Re: Releases

Post by Zack C »

Tad,

Are you aware of any tow-related incidents involving pilots who at the time were using releases that did not require taking a hand off the bar? I couldn't think of any, although often the type of release isn't mentioned in accident reports.

Zack
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Releases

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Roy Messing - 2009/08/31 - Whitewater

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3722/13268409664_8601c418a1_o.jpg
Image

Spinnaker shackle based Lockout release:

4:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC1yrdDV4sI

32-42004
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3842/14633550919_57af1df255_o.png
Image

Now if you mean a both hands on the basetube release that actually WORKS when you want it to... Nuthin's coming to me.

And when the type of release isn't mentioned in a report one seldom needs to be a rocket scientist to figure out what it was. For example it's a no brainer that Steve Elliot was killed on / because of a Davis caliber "pro tow" setup with a Wallaby Link which, curiously, didn't break before he got into too much trouble (as, curiously, is also the case in the Currituck video).
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Releases

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28305
Bob Buxton Truck Tow Accident Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2oeb0nNIKs
Bob Buxton accident
Scott Buxton - 2013/02/10
dead
016-04308
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3799/13746342624_c9b015f814_o.png
Image
Image
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2809/13746340634_a74b33d285_o.png
022-04610
Dan Lukaszewicz - 2013/02/10 13:00:05 UTC
Alexandria, Virginia

Thank you for posting. That was a violent crash.
Glad you didn't call it an "accident".
I hope your dad mends quickly.
Did you READ what he SAID? He hasn't and won't. This thing was absolutely devastating.
I do not believe anything else could have been done after launch to prevent the accident.[/quote]
Of course you don't. You've had your brain turned to total mush by Steve Wendt at Manquin and all the assholes at Ridgely. It's totally impossible for you to even imagine the concept of a PILOT being able to release himself from a towline in anything other than totally ideal circumstances at over a thousand feet.
Once the tow line was connected incorrectly his fate was sealed and any other pilot would have met the same fate.
BULLSHIT motherfucker. If I were gonna truck tow with any frequency I'd have spent a couple hundred bucks and there'd have been a button under my finger and a wire going up my sleeve.
It's so easy to connect the tow rope over the base tube, especially after recent aero towing where you get used to seeing the tow line above the base bar.
Sorry. That's a pooch screw even a total scatterbrain such as myself would never make in a million years.
I primarily truck tow and we do use a checklist, and the operator double checks us. I highly recommend a check list. In addition to the towline connection we check the following:

- hang check items

- the release line is under the bar. We use a loop and pin style release that is actuated with a pull cord.
How do you pull it? Can you keep both hands on the basetube so there's never any control compromise?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilD-0Mw_9qg

18-3003
Image

If not is there any possibility that the control compromise you might have to make might cost you your life?

Why the fuck can't Bob blow himself off? He's got a window of at least six, maybe eight seconds in which he can walk away with a glider in pristine shape if he could just dump that line. You think maybe he was doing the math and concluding that the cost of taking a hand off the basetube for a second was higher than it would've been to slam in on tow - as he did?
- tie down straps are disconnected. If we have to taxi to the other end of the runway we secure the base tube to the cradle with tie down straps.

- safety is off. The safety is a secondary connection to the nose release to prevent accidental release during taxi.
Yeah. That was the item Steve Wendt read skipped when he was reading the checklist and I took care of it for him while we were rolling up to speed.
- pressure in the hydraulic brake. The tow line spools off a large drum or spool. A hydraulic disc brake connected to the spool controls the resistance. Resistance is initially light for the first half of the tow in order to pay out line. It is tightened during the second half to maximize climb. In case of a lockout or this type of incident all tow pressure is released.
Yeah. Thank you so very much to confirm for me that the guy whose ass is on the line has no realistic chance of releasing HIMSELF.
It looks like that happened in this incident.
Looks to me like the guys in the truck were TOTALLY ASLEEP AT THE SWITCH.
- check the position of gliders in the air.
Why?

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=756
Discussion with Tad about Towing / Foot Launch
Bill Cummings - 2011/08/20 01:56:14 UTC

I've had in my possession three different line tension (pressure) gauges for static boat and land towing. I got rid of all of them. Why? Because people at the tow vehicle were making decisions about what I needed just from watching the gauge.
Can't you just stare at the pressure gauge and assume that if you've got a steady needle the glider's doing just fine?
- check electronics are on and set. vario/radio/camera
Yeah, those are biggies.
As an aside, there is a weak link inline with the tow line but tow pressures are so light that it is very rare to have one break.
So why should you EVER have one break?
I have done a couple hundred truck tows and also aero tow and foot launch. In my opinion truck towing is the safest way to get into the air.
How very odd. 'Cause if you look at Donnell's Twelve Skyting Criteria...

http://www.kitestrings.org/post2660.html#p2660

...for a safe towing system what you just described violates the crap outta seven of them.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Releases

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28305
Bob Buxton Truck Tow Accident Video
Casey Cox - 2013/02/10 13:32:34 UTC

Well wishes and speedy recovery to your dad.
Yeah, right.
I've never seen such an accident but thanks for posting for I think hearing and seeing what can happen does leave a sense of extra pre-caution in my mind.
Got me convinced. Bridle under the basetube for platform.
I do want to make one comment. I have towed with stationary winch from a cart in which the line is also routed over the base bar for this type of tow. The glider does have a little more friction to respond to control than when routed under, but release is low. It's mainly used for training.

Anyway, one must be vigilant to fly the glider and not let the line pressure on the base bar dictate flight.
So why wouldn't one use a Koch two stage in this application? 'Cause you can get away with basetube interference most of the time?
I think this should be emphasized for; if the line is routed incorrectly over, and the pilot feels he can not release, and if there is not a safety observer present, then the pilot should concentrate on flying the glider.
Love it.
- Send somebody up on a release he can't use safely and easily or at all.
- Eliminate a dump guy from the equation.
- Leave the pilot stuck flying on a rope until he locks out and slams in.

Let's practice that a few times.
Thanks again for posting. I know that I've received tips from other pilots throughout my flying days that may have helped me avoid an accident and I do not want to sound like I know all...
Don't worry. You're good.
...but rather want to pass my pointers along as well to maybe help someone else.
Or, failing that, improve the gene pool a bit.
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