http://www.kitestrings.org/post888.html#p888At one point the left wing tip was nearly touching the ground and BOTH the left and right wire men are yelling UP!!!
(one presumably means I am pulling up on the wire and the other means I have up pressure)
Steve Davy - 2011/10/18 06:10:37 UTC
Get your crew to hold the side wire two feet inboard of the cross bar / LE intersection. If there is any force on the wire it will be obvious with a glance. Verbal communication invites miscommunication.
What? Did something happen to Karen? Was in hang gliding related? I didn't see anything about it on the Klub site.Mark Cavanaugh - 2015/11/13 22:32:20 UTC
Information about an upcoming memorial/remembrance/party to celebrate Karen's life will be available soon.
Oh. It WAS hang gliding related.One good place to check is:
http://www.pumphreyfuneralhome.com/obituary/Karen-J.-Carra/Takoma-Park-MD/1562717
EVERYONE, Mark?There's a guestbook, and everyone is welcome to comment there.
Even if one is serving a three month suspension from the CHGA rag for violating its etiquette rules - motherfucker?Matthew Graham - 2008/12/12 14:22:04 UTC
The forums are for reasoned and respectful discussion and debate. Profanity, links to adult web sites, engaging in flame wars and direct personal attacks are not permitted. Any person violating these simple rules of etiquette will be first given a warning. If there is a second violation after the warning, the person's privileges to post topics and to reply will be revoked for a period of at least three months. If the violator is re-instated onto the forum after the suspension period and then commits a third violation, that person's privileges to post topics and to reply will be revoked permanently.
As Tad has been previously warned for use of profanity and then continued to use profanity in posts to the Hang Gliding Forum, his privileges to post topics and to reply has been revoked for a period of at least three months effective today December 12, 2008. After a period of three months, he may contact any member of the CHGPA Board of Directors and request permission to regain posting privileges.
Matthew Graham
VP/CHGPA
Well yeah. Let's make a new CHGA rag etiquette rule. If somebody whom a CHGA operative actually gives a flying fuck about buys the farm in a hang gliding incident no one will be permitted to discuss or refer to the incident. Offending posts will be deleted and topics will be locked as required.Matthew simply can't stand the thought of Karen being yet another pilot whose loss becomes a sad topic within the club forums.
Yeah, reality is something that Matthew's never been much into - as evidenced by his bullshit claims about both the procedures under which Tad was "suspended" for three months and the ones regarding reinstatement. Also the very selective enforcement of CHGA's "RULES".A little too real, I suspect.
Hugh McElrath - 2009/03/18
[url]Re: second channel[/url]
Sorry I didn't reply immediately. I am caucusing with the BoD. Let me just say that I don't think you were the only sinner on the forum - others sort of ganged up on you and backed you into a corner. We are working on a formula whereby you promise to be good, use no language that a reasonable man might consider to be "fightin' words" (this goes considerably beyond George Carlin's seven words you can't say on television), KEEP YOUR POSTS SHORTER, and stay in whatever "aerotow release technical discussions" topic gets established (for posts about that topic). I also plan to say something to the general audience about decorum and not ganging up on someone that has a unique viewpoint. If that makes the forum less interesting, so be it. Gimme a couple more days to operate - as you may have seen, we just lost Matthew and Karen from the board and need to elect new officers. - Hugh
P.S. I still have and am willing to pay for the one- and two-point releases you made for me. I still need more edumacation about how to set them up - the single briefing you gave me in the parking lot in Bowie has faded. Not sure whether I will be out at Ridgely Saturday (kid has an event). I have already moved on to the sailplane club in Front Royal (working on both glider license and getting qualified to fly the tow planes), but I'm still in the hang- and paragliding games (I presume you can see posts but not write to the forum - check out my "blog" on my and Ellis' PG trip to New Zealand for a maneuvers course.).
Fuck all you guys and the horses you rode in on.For now, all we know is that it will be the first or second weekend of December. Her ashes will be scattered at Great Falls Park, where they were married. Followed by a remembrance, likely at a nearby Unitarian Universalist Church.
I'm pretty sure that Karen would hate the idea of somber attire. I'll double-check, but I'm guessing that suits and such won't be the way to go. Unless they are bright and happy. With many purple and pink accents.
Why? Why not stop pushing out when you've got the AOA where you want it?Robert Kesselring - 2015/09/20 14:41:44 UTC
When I first got my glider out on LMFP's training hills, I found that I had to push out a little to lift off, If I didn't, the glider would outrun me down the hill. I didn't like this because it was too easy to push out too far and pop the nose.
Brilliant. Scoot the loopS (don't forget that critically important backup loop) farther back so the glider trims closer to stall then you can pull in more to get the glider back to where it would've been if you'd left the trim alone, then you'll be able to push out farther without stalling. Wish I'd thought of doing that.My solution was to scoot the hang loops back until I could pull in during my run and then let the bar out to lift off, then pull back in to fly away.
Slap a loop of 130 pound Greenspot on the end of your pro toad bridle opposite from your bent pin barrel release and you'll get compliments from some very experienced pilots on your excellent equipment choice.With the glider set up this way, I have very good launches, I've gotten compliments from some very experienced pilots on my excellent launch technique.
Land like an aircraft in REAL aviation. Just kidding, continue on with the lunacy.The problem is that when I come to land, I can't use trim speed as a timing cue. If I wait until trim speed to flair, I have no energy left and the glider just stops flying and falls to the ground without nosing up, like at the end of this video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfxRL4zhMmg
When i let out to "trim" speed during flight the glider mushes badly, it's on the verge of stall, so I've been flying pulled in slightly at all times.
The options I see are...
Why's it hafta be a training hill? Why can't you practice launch runs and pitch control on a soccer field?Set the trim speed faster again, go back out to a training hill, and learn to launch by pushing out.
How many more decades are you planning on living?Keep practicing my landings until I can consistently land by feeling a specific amount of bar pressure as my cue to flair.
Find an alternate hobby that DOESN'T require common sense.Use a stall alarm on a vario as my cue to flair (I don't even have a vario yet, no idea if this will work at all)
Are there any other, better options that I don't know about?
Exactly how young are you being, Dave? Any predictions for this time next year?Dave Hopkins - 2015/09/20 19:57:18 UTC
Being a really young pilot...
It's kinda crappy - beyond your not starting it with a hook-in check.Robert Kesselring - 2015/09/21 17:07:53 UTC
IDK about mushing my launch...
No. We don't need to see your feet. We can see where you decide to start flying and jump on the glider at 0:23 and the ensuing mush dip immediately thereafter.Most of the guys I fly with are PG pilots, but the 2 HG pilots I fly with both have many years of experience and both say my launches are very good. The fact that the camera doesn't see my feet, where they are on the ground, or the wind, may be painting a false picture.
You're fuckin' clueless. I can maybe see not realizing what you're doing wrong while you're doing it but when you have the luxury of watching a high definition video as many times as you want...I'll get someone to video my next couple of launches from the side, maybe with a streamer in view, and see what you think of it from that perspective. Until then, I'll go with the opinions of the guys standing on the mountain next to me. No offense.
Bullshit. When you're launching with a headwind of zero to whatever you're flying the glider. You can take the fucking hang point totally out of the equation by holding the wing down enough to keep the suspension from tensioning and with the suspension tensioned you can torque the control frame to anything you want in the way of launch speed.Still, having the hang point a little further forward will keep me on the ground longer, and a longer run can't hurt.
Did you see my note above about soccer fields?If I can find a training hill close by...
And be sure to use tinny downtubes to lessen the chance of breaking an arm when you pile in....I'll spend a day or two dialing it in, otherwise, I'll try adjusting it forward in tinny increments every couple of flights until my trim speed is correct. Tinny increments should give me time to slowly adapt my launch.
Yes you can. You're running down a steep hill and the faster you go the more the glider will lift your weight and allow for longer faster strides.Robert Kesselring - 2015/09/21 22:04:04 UTC
I can't run 18 mph...
Bullshit. That's the airspeed the glider needs to fly fully loaded and you subtract whatever headwind you have....(The airspeed that glider needs to fly properly)...
Not on that launch it wasn't....so, my technique has been to run as fast as I can...
You jumped onto it....let the glider pick me up...
Assuming you haven't bellied in or ground looped already by that point....then pull in and let gravity give me the rest of the speed that I need.
After deciding to be.That is what you see happening when the nose goes down at 0:24. I'm off the ground...
Why? You'd decided you had adequate airspeed a second before....and pulling the nose down to accelerate.
Were you running as fast as you possibly could when you jumped into the glider?The way I understand what you're telling me is that by starting with the nose lower, and easing it out after accelerating to top running speed, I'll get a few yards, as I'm easing out, when I'm flying, in that my weight is supported by the glider, but I'm doing it so close to the ground that I can still reach the ground with my feet and kick off a couple more times, resulting in a couple extra kicks worth of energy. Does that accurately describe what you're telling me I should do?
What if the wind is light straight in or zero under an overcast or in the morning or evening and there's zero chance of it doing anything unexpected?Robert Kesselring - 2015/09/22 16:34:39 UTC
The launch ramp at LMFP (which I doubt was there 35 years ago) is rounded and goes from flat to very steep, very quickly. Furthermore, you can't start from the flat part because it is sheltered from any cross wind that may exist further forward on the ramp, and you don't want to run into air that doing something un-expected on launch.
So? Run until you can't anymore.The up-shot is that from standing still, you have maybe 6 feet at most in front of you, after that you'll either be flying or falling.
So Lockout can qualify lotsa "students" without qualifying them for anything.It makes for super easy and forgiving launches...
And there's NO possibility of using that runway behind you under any circumstances. You can't simulate a launch in which you don't have that brain dead easy, bulletproof ramp because you have that brain dead easy, bulletproof ramp....but the long hard run you're looking for just isn't going to happen because you've only got room for about 4 very short steps.
Love the way you're upright with your hands on the control tubes for the entire duration of the flight. Young pilots need all the safety margin they can get.
...on The Jack Show, the central repository of all wisdom in the hang gliding universe...The launch in the video everyone...
Gawd! I hadn't thought of that!...has been commenting on is not as short and steep as LMFP, but it's close, at least at the top. At the bottom of the launch, the ground continues down, but the tops of the foliage level out. If I run all, or even most of the way down the clearing, I'll glide right into the foliage.
Good idea! Like when you're on a short runway in a heavily loaded Cessna, no wind, hot, humid and there's a problematic set of powerlines you need to clear. Get airborne as quickly as you can then pull WAY BACK to get as much air between you and the powerlines as possible.I almost did that on my first launch from that site. On subsequent launches I've tried to accelerate as hard as possible, in as short of a space as possible, and get off the ground as high as possible to maximize my clearance over the briers and trees. Maybe it is a jackrabbit start, but I don't have the room for a gradual acceleration.
You DON'T hafta get off the ground within the first ten or fifteen feet or not at all. You hafta get off the ground with as much speed as possible and retain that speed while you clear a potentially problematic obstruction by three to six inches going like a bat outta hell.You've made it clear that you think my launch was awful, but all the suggestions that I've read for improvement involve longer, harder runs. Entirely appropriate for long, flat launches, but I'm not sure how to apply that advise to a launch where I have to get off the ground within the first 10 or 15 feet or not at all.
You would if you hadn't gone through a school that didn't totally suck. The problem is they all totally suck.I'm not trying to argue. I know most of you have a lot more experience and I appreciate the advise. I'm just not sure how I can apply what you've said to this site.
So show me the part where you AGAIN MADE SURE THAT YOU WERE HOOKED IN! I guess it was OK to skip that part 'cause you'd ALREADY MADE SURE THAT YOU WERE HOOKED IN back in the staging area. And when you get or fly a Wills Wing glider make sure you skip the sidewire stomp test described in the fuckin' manual 'cause you always replace your wires every year or fifty hours - whichever comes first.Robert Kesselring - 2015/09/23 15:02:58 UTC
The owners manual for my Horizon describes proper launch technique as follows...When you hold the glider prior to your take off run, you should have the nose slightly elevated and the wings level. AGAIN MAKE SURE THAT YOU ARE HOOKED IN! Run hard and ease the bar out for lift-off.
So? You're totally ignoring the hook-in check they tell you to do in screaming capitol letters. Why worry the least bit about the lower case stuff?So the technique they recommend is not a constant angle of attack.
I had an eleven year old kid on the dunes who ran his glider into the air off different slopes in different conditions just as well as I could. And I didn't need to spend fifty posts' worth explaining things to him.Is this a difference in technique required by different gliders or a difference of opinion between 2 competent pilots (you and the guy who wrote the manual), or is this difference due to some other factor?
You mean like on a soccer field?NMERider - 015/09/23 22:42:54 UTC
Have you been practicing your launch runs and nose rotations on level ground?
What about the large rocks strewn all over the place?I do it as often as I can right after I land.
Not so much though if you've scooted your hang loops back to a slower trim point.You can practice this to your heart's content without even wearing a harness. Once you find that you can get a solid buildup of airspeed with no harness...
And make sure you wear a helmet while you're doing this in the LZ so you don't get your rating revoked under the new Bob Kuczewski mandatory helmet regulation....then start doing it wearing your harness while hooked in.
And with a good dust devil the sky's the limit.With a 10mph headwind you should be able to run the Horizon fast enough to get it airborne for a little bit. With zero headwind you should still be able to manage to run it fast enough to flare to a stop.
OK folks. Let's hear some more about the extreme danger and complexity of tow launching.Here's another incentive to get your launch technique down solid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AorGQ8oLXHA
It was blowing over the back and three of us launched successfully into what is called thermal block. The fourth pilot let his nose pop as soon as he began his run and needed to be taken to hospital by helicopter. He'll recover and fly again but it could have ended much worse. He also missed an easy ride to 13K where he could have been cloud surfing all afternoon.
But never do Mach 5 takeoffs behind 914 Dragonflies at full power...Timothy Ward - 2015/09/24 03:26:46 UTC
Mira Loma
The safest hang glider launch is the fastest hang glider launch.
Your Rooney Links will go left and right.Jim Rooney - 2008/12/06 20:01:49 UTC
You will only ever need full throttle for the first fifty feet of a tandem tow. Don't ever pull a solo at full throttle... they will not be able to climb with you. You can tow them at 28 mph and you'll still leave them in the dust... they just won't be able to climb with you... weaklinks will go left and right.
Fabiano Nahoum - 2015/11/15 03:53:44 UTC
Rio de Janeiro
This is one of the worst takeoff areas that I've ever seen.
I never flew from there, but the old Brasilia ramp was something like this High Rock thing.
Except perhaps gnarlier looking, in a long stony ridge, just as windy and more thermally active and with a vertical 1200 feet drop into dark rocks.
It was no surprise that practically every year they had a comp there, some pilot died.
They nicknamed it Suicide Ramp.
Then sometime later, people found out that the piece of ridge just about two miles from there had a perfect natural ramp, the new Brasilia takeoff site, used to this day.
It still windy and thermally but it's a laminar flow and that makes all the difference!
When you take a look at these old take off videos you can notice how steep and abrupt is the lift band coming from such a vertical cliff.
It's just too dangerous, come on...
Or, it seems, anyone. We have a pretty good consensus now that it's virtually impossible for a regular human to develop safe consistent foot launching skills. And even when someone like Karen does pull one off properly it doesn't do her any good.Jaco Herbst - 2015/11/17 13:08:29 UTC
Gnarly launch and gnarly air. Not for me, thank you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AorGQ8oLXHANMERider - 2015/11/20 05:17:49 UTC
Imagine using weak technique on my second launch in this video at Pine Mountain in Ojai, CA? Well, the pilot observing by my right wing did exactly that when he launched poorly an hour later and allowed his nose to pop. He was lucky to get a helicopter ride out with his broken shoulder, fractured ribs, collapsed lung, and concussion. I visited him in the E/R later that evening. He's good now and will make a full recovery and fly again but his weak technique could have just as easily been fatal given the large rocks everywhere. Think of this as motivation. The flying conditions were epic for the three of six pilots who got airborne. Two pilots got gypped out of their flights.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AorGQ8oLXHA
Jack Show thread up to thirty-one posts now explaining to Robert Kesselring how to properly execute this "simple" "Hang Two" skill well enough to survive a couple years of real world slope launching.NMERider - 2015/09/01
A PSA to other would-be pilots...
In light of the blown HG launch and subsequent air-lift from the South launch on Pine, Sunday I put together this very short video showing two launches in vastly different conditions. The first launch shown is in prevailing up-slope winds that are filled in with no holes or dead spots. When it's like this I can almost jump into the air on my T2C 144 and get away with it. However, this is actually very poor technique that can lead to bad habits that will bite a pilot in the ass very hard. The second launch shown is from Sunday and it was blowing OTB. The day became more unstable and thermal block was setting up. Numerous dust devils came across the setup area and swirling thermals were visibly ripping up the face of the mountain. Thanks to the efforts of the pilots who freshened up the streamers and added many more streamers, it was not difficult to see the airflow over a broad area of the ramp and time a launch run.
Because it's not possible to see the air above the streamers or accurately see 2-seconds into the future, any launch should be treated as if there was no wind and no lift. This means the glider's angle of attack needs to be set low enough that it will not stall especially on a wingtip but must not be so low that the glider does not lift enough to prevent the pilot from stumbling into one of the boulders. Ideally we want to get away from the terrain with enough airspeed to maintain control in what we cannot see coming up the face of the mountain. At least this is how I plan and execute it. I can't speak for anyone else.
From what Eddy told me, the conditions during the next hour for the next 3 pilots were essentially the same as when I launched at 1:09PM. Unfortunately, only 2 pilots used solid technique while 1 let his nose pop which resulted in a ground-loop down a very steep and rocky slope. This also prevented the last 2 pilots from getting in their flights. If nothing else, we each have an obligation to be considerate of others by taking steps to avoid needing rescue.
I have additional video of Pine launches from the past few years in case it's of value. This includes launching from the road above the PG ramp which is actually a concave slope face. However that face is all chaparral and otherwise very forgiving compared to the HG ramp.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31367Craig Pirazzi - 2013/12/23 19:50:23 UTC
Telluride / Paradox
This is in Paradox.
The launch used to have a rock ramp but it still had a rotor and was abandoned.
Just needed to get up into the clean air.
I was tired of being at cliff launches with perfect conditions that you could reach your hand out into but not launch because of the rotor.
This seems to work well.
We have two other launches as well, the road cut, and Tommy's earth ramp.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31367Craig Pirazzi - 2014/06/09 02:48:14 UTC
The short version is take along an experienced pilot if you are looking at pioneering a cliff launch, there are too many variables to learn a new technique and a new launch at the same time.
Also there are no safe high wind cliff launches.
If you want to see some good and not so good cliff launches search YouTube for Moab Cliff launches Hang Gliding
Craig Pirazzi - 2014/06/09 03:14:24 UTC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHunfvxpqS0
I cringe every time I watch this launch.
Tension that hang strap!!
This pilot threw his glider and then himself off the cliff and until the two of them reunited in the air there was nothing but a wing and a prayer.
The only reason he got away with it was because there was no wind.
Also resist the temptation to stand back and run, more often than not you will be standing in the rotor and as you reach the edge you will encounter the vertical air, not a good place for surprises.
Check out Moab Speed Flyer Cheats Death On YouTube.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31974Craig Pirazzi - 2014/06/09 14:52:58 UTC
It s clear we need to differentiate between a cliff launch and a "Steep Slope Launch".
They both require AOA and rotor awareness but steep slope launches usually benefit from stronger smooth wind because we are limited in our ability to hold the nose down to match the slope angle, and still be able to run without kicking the control bar.
"Cliff Launch" is limited or no opportunity to run and a vertical face (cliff) and usually involves a rotor in higher wind.
Two things about Cliff Launches...
The fear of dragging your keel on a cliff launch is just that a fear. In order for your keel to impact the cliff you would need to be in trim AOA as you step off the cliff.
In which case you would receive a F- and go to the back of the class.
What should be your focus is your control bar proximity to the edge because you're fully nose down and your glider is often not flying. This is another reason that it is critical to be lifting your glider, hang strap tight, because you are lifting your glider, your glider is not lifting you.
Rotors. You should be intimately aware of your launch's wind and rotor behavior before ever launching in any wind. This means spending time on the launch with streamers, out front and in back, also I like to put a streamer on a long pole and move it all around the launch in different wind and thermal conditions.
You can literally map the rotor with a streamer, this is preferable to mapping the rotor with your wing.
There is a saying that if we could see the air we wouldn't launch, I like to think if we could see the air we would know when its safe to launch.
Once you know when and ware the rotor is or, more importantly, is not then you can safely launch closer to the edge avoiding the transition to the vertical air rising up the cliff face.
Once you become familiar with your launches air flow one thing will become obvious, any crosswind direction will drastically create uneven rotors and should be avoided at all times.
Also knowing your launch's wind conditions can provide you with a safer place to stage your glider.
Never cliff launch into a thermal. That being said thermal cycles can be used to your advantage in finding launch conditions with less or no wind. As a rule of thumb never cliff launch in a thermal cycle, choose a lull cycle with little or no wind and do your thermal dance out away from solid objects.
Cliff launches, although intimating, can be done safely and in some instances can be easier than slope launches but it is critical to know the boundaries and realize that the air is always dynamic.
Craig Pirazzi - 2014/10/21 13:59:26 UTC
Looks doable, here's how I approach a new cliff launch.
Many pilots are intimidated by cliff launches because they can be less forgiving of poor technique but with the right awareness of conditions and skills they can be done reliably and safely and have some advantages over slope launches.
Conditions, smoke, or dust is probably the best way to see the air and map out any potential dangers though not always practical. I like to use a streamer on a long pole. You can move the streamer around showing exactly where the edges of any rotor might be.
Visit the site as many times as possible and in as many different conditions and times of day as you can until you are familiar with the airflow.
Initially you will want the want the wind coming straight in. Even small cross directions can create asymmetrical rotor lifting one wing, not good.
Be willing to launch it initially in light possibly non soarable conditions and work your way up to stronger winds.
The launch, find a launch that has similar terrain features on both sides, most likely to produce symmetrical airflow.
An undercut cliff can create more of a rotor but usually when there is a vertical component to the air / thermal lift. Coastal ridge lift tends to be more laminar.
I prefer undercut cliff launches because they get you out into the airflow and away from the ground sooner.
It's best to avoid 90 degree cliff edges in any wind because they'll produce the strongest rotors.
Technique, find a crash test dummy to launch it first.No, seriously, if you don't have cliff launch experience find someone who does to mentor you. You don't want to learn to cliff launch on a forum.
I will say that few pilots realize that yaw is critical to maintaining your level wings and nose down is critical but only if you are aware of the location of the rotor!
Keep us posted on your progress.
Craig Pirazzi - 2014/10/29 02:51:40 UTC
We all could use a stairway to heaven.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qpb72KOMqEA
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=18993Craig Pirazzi - 2014/10/29 12:28:38 UTC
This is not the road cut launch. This spot faces more west and is a 90 degree edge / maxim rotor potential.
The main advantage to this rig is that it gets you up out of the rotor and into the clean air.
More often than not with a true cliff launch you can walk up to the edge and put your hand out into the clean air but you can't get your wing through the rotor.
High winds and cliff launches don't belong in the same sentence, stairway or not.
I would be interested in assisting in building a stairway for you but this rig is strictly off road.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33319Craig Pirazzi - 2015/06/07 15:16:14 UTC
How about Aero Towing around Moab?
Were looking into it.
Rich Jesuroga - 2015/08/27 18:42:17 UTC
Salida
This is very sad indeed. My understanding is that Craig was acting as a site guide for other pilots participating in filming a Utah tourism video. Filming crews were near launch taking video when the accident happened. Craig helped the others off and was the last one to go unassisted. As he walked up to the cliff to launch one wing lifted and turned the glider sideways and he was sucked off the edge by the cliff lee-side rotor.
Heli1 - 2014/06/09 14:58:35 UTC
Hi
Here is a bit lengthy video, but with a few cliff launches.
http://vimeo.com/97609358
One at 01:45. One with a bit backdraft at 05:17.
And finally two at 09:00, the first with 0 wind, the other with a draft straight in.
The other launches I don't consider cliff launches, as I'm able to run down the "steep" part
No Craig...Craig Pirazzi - 2014/06/09 16:28:30 UTC
What a beautiful place!
One thing I notice is the AOA that can be safely used at coastal sites is noticeably less than that at altitude with dryer thinner air.
Just something to keep in mind.
Well sure. It's you and you lived. It's only when somebody dies that we never get any straight information on anything.Ken Andrews - 2016/01/19 21:49:48 UTC
Pasadena
The rumors are true; I blew a launch at Palomar on Saturday, and I might as well tell the story.
Good ol' Martin Palmaz of u$hPa.While visiting Sylmar a week earlier, Martin Palmaz of USHPA...
Narrow dry riverbeds with large rocks strewn all over the place....told me that he'd be at Palomar for their fly-in on the 16th. That sounded like a good enough reason to go explore a new site, and in response to my queries, the Sylmar contingent eventually consisted of Joe and Kris Greblo, Will Ramsey, Richard and Kat Shaw, and myself. There were one or two other visiting hang gliders, and a whole lot of paragliders, both locals and visitors. It's an attractive site, with a west-facing launch about 2300 feet above the LZ, and the drive up is direct and easy.
Most of the launch area has a very shallow slope, and it gets somewhat steeper towards the bottom of the cleared area. The wind was more or less zero on Saturday, with the streamers near the top of the launch area showing a tailwind more often than not, while those at the bottom would sometimes show that it was blowing in. I've logged several tailwind launches recently on various gliders, so I figured this would just be another one and it wasn't a big deal. In retrospect, I think that was my basic mistake; tailwind launches are always a big deal. The result is that I didn't guard my margin, and let lots of little things eat away at it.
I suited up and moved my U2 in line amongst a sea of paragliders. As those ahead picked their cycles and launched, I moved my glider down the shallow area until finally nobody was in front of me. In the process, I unwittingly let go of quite a lot of shallow-slope running area, and was left with a pretty short ramp that still wasn't very steep. There was a long line of people waiting impatiently behind me, so I didn't make much effort to pick a good cycle, and just figured I could make it work. The streamers in front of me showed a little life, so I started my launch run, though undoubtedly the streamers behind me were blowing down. Others report that I had the glider's nose too high; I'm a little surprised given the shallow launch, but they're most likely right. At the end of the ramp, the glider was still heavy on my shoulders. I continued running through the brush below the ramp, and I'm fuzzy on the details, but evidently that didn't go so well. My right wing dropped, started dragging through the brush, and the glider and I skidded sideways to a halt. I have a vivid image of the control bar going through a couple little yuccas, along with all those yucca-thoughts: I'm sure glad my hands aren't there! Are there bigger yuccas ahead? How many holes will I have before this is over with? In fact, I got away with only a couple of scratches, and the only damage to the glider was three bent battens in the right wingtip. Curiously, my left leg was so sore that I couldn't really operate a clutch, and Joe Greblo had to drive home. I can only figure that this was from tensing my legs before impact. I do know that I end up with stiff legs after flying low over tiger country with limited landing options...
Or ya could've just lain down on a launch cart with your wings locked level and your nose automatically trimming and waited until you had twice the airspeed ya needed - but all that complexity makes the launch so much more dangerous....and that doesn't make any sense either.
Maybe there's a moral here about complacency and managing one's safety margin. Maybe this just indicates the amount of risk I choose to accept in my flying style. I suspect that both are true.
Kenneth Andrews - California - 76491 - H5 - 2014/03/22 - Alan Crouse - AT FL AWCL CL FSL HA RLF TUR XC - OBS
Name eight items nobody at a tow operation gives or needs to give flying fucks about.NMERider - 2016/01/19 23:43:24 UTC
Ken,
Thanks for posting your accident report. I'm glad you and your glider escaped largely unscathed. After reading your report carefully I came up with a "How I might have handled this differently" mental checklist:
Am I observing and heeding what the locals ahead of me are doing?
Am I giving myself as much runway as I need in these conditions?
Am I willing to not launch?
Am I really picking good launch cycles or is my mind somewhere else?
Am I putting my safety ahead of the convenience of the pilots behind me?
Have I asked the other pilots to report on the streamers I can't see?
Does my glider feel heavy at the beginning of my run?
Do I have room to abort this launch run?
Is my release within easy reach?Feel free to add to this list of self-checking questions.
Must've lacked the requisite confidence...The last time I flew Palomar was in 2011, and the pilot ahead of me launched poorly but got away with it. A few years later they blew a launch at an extremely unforgiving cliff with jagged rocks.
...that he was connected to his glider just prior to launch. (Suck my dick, Quinn.)Quinn Cornwell - 2009/01/24 19:57:03 UTC
No, don't think about the jagged boulders. That'll mess with your head. Don't ever tell pilots to think about "Oh, if you screw this up, you'll crash and burn into those jagged rocks down there, so make sure you don't screw this up." This sort of psychology is detrimental. It's good to be conscience of the dangers in hang gliding, pointing this out right before you start running is just plain stupid.
10-03323By some miracle a fire department was doing rappel rescue training a few hundred yards away. The glider was toast but the pilot escaped serious injury.
The Big-O Loop 390' launch with rapid-turnaround cart...
Perfect your foot launches AND your flare timing....is up and running in excellent shape. Ken's example is a good incentive for pilots to get out and do multiple launches and landings on any afternoon they can coordinate with No-Fly Steve who is responsible for driver the Ranger at Crestline. http://www.crestlinesoaring.org/forum/255
Cheers,
JD
