launching

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
Post Reply
User avatar
Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9149
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

launching

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.kitestrings.org/post4095.html#p4095
Tad Eareckson - 2013/04/04 03:07:08 UTC

I've been thinking about starting a "launching" thread - not because it's something we don't know how to do, but to drive a stake through the heart of this bullshit we always hear about slope launching being so much safer than tow launching because there's not all that nasty equipment complexity to deal with.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/17412839/man-dies-hang-gliding-in-york/
The West Australian - 2013/05/31 07:46 UTC
Perth

Staff reporter

Man dies hang-gliding in York

The hang gliding community has been left in shock at the death of an experienced pilot in an accident in York yesterday.

It is understood the Perth man (Grant Bond (Bondy)) had launched off Mount Bakewell, a well known flying site on the outskirts of the York township, and collided at high speed with rocks near the top of the hill.

Paramedics were called to the scene at 1:50 pm and it is understood they attempted to revive the man.

The RAC Rescue chopper was sent out to the scene but was turned back when it became clear the man would not survive.

Locals described the conditions yesterday as "ideal" for hang gliding with good winds and relatively clear skies.

A York resident, who asked not to be named, said he was in shock at the "unusual" death of the man, given his experience and yesterday's conditions.

He said only experienced pilots flew from the hill and the deceased man had lots of experience in the area.

"He just dropped a wing on takeoff, he clipped a tree and turned back into the hill, it's quite a rocky hill and it was a fairly high speed impact," he said.

The man is understood be a prominent member of the hang gliding community in Western Australia.

Police will prepare a report for the coroner.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29164
Man down in WA, Australia
User avatar
Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9149
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: launching

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27228
Dave Seib
NMERider - 2012/04/06 05:07:25 UTC

Dave's tragic death was reported in the Brazilian media:

http://esporte.uol.com.br/aventura/ultimas-noticias/2012/04/05/piloto-de-voo-livre-morre-apos-acidente-em-minas-organizacao-fala-em-erro-humano.htm
Pilot dies after hang gliding accident in Minas; organizers attribute to human error
Bruno Freitas
UOL, in Sao Paulo

David Charles Seib was an experienced test pilot for a glider manufacturer in Australia.

Australian David Charles Seib died on Thursday during the Super Race Brasil, the national stage on the world circuit of free flight. The pilot crashed into a mountain in the competition held near the city of Carmo do Rio Claro, in Minas Gerais, and died a short time later in the hospital.

Seib crashed shortly after takeoff at the peak of Serra da Tormenta (46° 06.264'W, 20° 59.435'S), which has 1287 meters of altitude. The pilot was promptly attended to by medical personnel accompanying the event and transported to the St. Vincent de Paul Hospital. The Australian had declared death at 14:00, only 30 minutes after arriving at the clinic.

The organizers of the event in Carmo do Rio Claro (362 km from Belo Horizonte in southern Minas Gerais) were still waiting for a technical analysis of the accident of the pilot of 44 years. However, the director of the Brazilian event says the Seib incident may have been caused by an error in the analysis of takeoff.

"We had favorable conditions and favorable winds. But he may have picked a wrong time to take off, with unfavorable winds. He took off and his glider banked to the side. He came back towards the mountain and hit the slope. Despite being a experienced pilot, who test flies the gliders of an Australian factory, he crashed." said Haroldo Castro Neves, vice president of the Brazilian Association of Free Flight, and one of the organizers.

The competitor's body was sent to the Australian city of Passos, 80 km from Carmo do Rio Claro, to undergo an autopsy. According to preliminary information provided by St. Vincent de Paul Hospital, Seib had suffered serious multiple thoracic trauma.

The family of the pilot was notified and a brother of Seib's is traveling to Brazil to arrange the transfer of the body. The Australian embassy in the country also takes care of this protocol.

On the evening of Thursday, pilots and the organizers of the Super Race Brazil will discuss whether they can can continue with the competition schedule before the weekend. The fifth stage held on Thursday was canceled when Seib's death was confirmed.

"It's a small group who fly in these competitions. Therefore, we are one big family. Everyone is very shaken," said Haroldo Castro Neves, of the Brazilian Association of Free Flight, in contact with the story of the UOL Sports by phone.
1:25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-8oVEo8ybA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUaFxMNKHOA
User avatar
Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9149
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: launching

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Foot launch tow:

http://vimeo.com/17743952

password - red
01-021
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/524/19405838072_44140f7d9a_o.png
Image
Image
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/435/19224482318_2da3f48afe_o.png
10-525

Add the complexity of the towline which decreases roll stability, subtract the complexity introduced by a launch dolly to compensate.
User avatar
Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9149
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: launching

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Towed slope launch from wheels with twin drivers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX0D7uryDNE


Slope launch minus the complexity of engaged wheels and twin port and starboard thrusters:

1:20
http://vimeo.com/34757572


Glider locks out to port and crashes.
User avatar
Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9149
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: launching

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5867
Accident at Big Walker 5/25
Bacil Dickert - 2013/05/28 14:24:36 UTC

On Saturday May 25th I headed down to Big Walker after getting off of work at 13:00. Got to the launch (37°07.513' N, 080°53.529 'W) at 18:45 to find five pilots, three of which were set up and one was soaring about 1K over out front.

I proceeded to help an inexperienced pilot launch at 19:00. His launch went good, and he flew out of the slot on the downtubes. The air was still sporty at the time. He kicked into his harness and went semi-prone with his hands still on the downtubes.
So far...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26800
Sport 2 VG lessons learned IMHO!
Christopher LeFay - 2012/08/06 05:30:55 UTC

FYI: training yourself to transition in the first second of launch will kill you eventually. You'll have it so wired in that when things go to hell you'll be halfway there before you can do anything about it. Stop now. Fly five seconds away from launch, keep running in the air - it's the only way to be sure you will do such when you must, and remain the same shape you've grown accustomed to.
...so good.
The glider flew to the left with the nose still pointed away from the mountain.

Then the right wing got lifted and he got turned towards the mountain.
Good thing he was still on the downtubes.
Bob Kuczewski - 2012/01/17 19:31:28 UTC

I have to agree with miguel here. I believe pitch authority is greater on the base tube, but roll authority is much quicker and more authoritative when upright. No doubt about it.
Much quicker and more authoritative roll authority. No doubt about it.
The glider rolled out of the 270 degree turn low over the trees and heading back towards the slot. I knew he was in trouble and a tree impact was imminent.

The glider clipped one tree outboard of the slot and then flew through another tree at the edge of the slot. The glider got turned 180 degrees and fell flat forty feet to the ground right in front of me at the edge of the slot. The pilot let out three moans from under the sail and I immediately dialed 911 and told them we had a badly injured pilot who needed immediate help.

The other three pilots attended to the pilot while I drove out to where the access road to launch met the paved road at the mountain peak in order to vector in the police and EMTs. It took fifteen minutes before a local police officer arrived and thirty minutes for the EMTs to arrive.

The pilot was taken to a hospital in Wytheville, Virginia with a C7 fracture and a torn left bicep. He was then medevaced to Roanoke Hospital at three in the morning. I visited with him the next morning just after 08:00 where he was facing another day of imaging to determine whether surgery would be necessary on the C7 fracture. I wished him well and headed up 81 to get to Woodstock where I caught up with Jon at the bridge field and took the grass devil picture that was posted on the Woodstock thread.
William Bunting - 92335 - H2 - 2012/06/04 - Daniel Zink - FL CL FSL
Great job, Daniel, Christopher, Lookout.
Bacil Dickert - 2013/05/29 13:33:17 UTC

I am happy to report that the pilot did not need surgery and is resting comfortably at his parents' house. He will be in a neck brace for a while and a full recovery is expected. He may or may not have a torn bicep. He wants to fly again. Witnessing an event like that can shake you up pretty good and it did me.
Roger Irby - 2013/05/29 20:14:41 UTC
North Carolina

I'm sorry you saw that Bacil. I witnessed something similar at Moore Mt many years ago.

It discouraged me and put safety on my mind. Thoughts of quitting the sport are usually frequent for me. Always have been.

Last year at the rally I missed the last day to attend my daughter's recital. I drove Alex Cuddy to his uncle's home in Jacksonville. He decided abruptly from the top of the start gaggle that he could never be number 1 at hang gliding (wrongly). He looped twice, spun it and landed safely. Retiring from comps. All that to say, when he told me that, I told him I was jealous.
Danny Brotto - 2013/06/01 23:44:06 UTC

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/05/30/4076002/assistant-mecklenburg-da-breaks.html

Glad that Bill will be okay (although over the years, this stuff wears the rest of us down.)
User avatar
Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9149
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: launching

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26870
weak links
Paul Hurless - 2012/08/14 17:39:22 UTC

Personally, I prefer to fly off mountains and not have to deal with towing. It's so much simpler to just run off a launch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xnv0HWXEv4
Bills Hill accident
Felix Cantesanu - 2013/05/05
dead
08-05129
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5609/15540301118_cb594e6b6e_o.png
Image
22-05801
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5599/15540550477_2f1423f256_o.png
Image
28-10103
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7557/15702013036_2dab148d86_o.png
Image
37-10320
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7511/15540545317_0a892f3cf1_o.png
Image

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5844
My "top landing" at Bills Hill
Felix Cantesanu - Baltimore - 92561 - H3 - 2012/10/08 - Adam Elchin - AT FL
U2 160, HES Tracer
---
Good job, Adam.
User avatar
Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9149
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: launching

Post by Tad Eareckson »

User avatar
Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9149
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: launching

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29209
Just another tree landing.
michael170 - 2013/06/06 16:09:33 UTC

Bills Hill accident
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xnv0HWXEv4
Felix Cantesanu - 2013/05/05 UTC
dead
Jim Rowan - 2013/06/06 17:13:37 UTC
Cresaptown, Maryland

I was there that day and watched him go into the trees.
Which you tend not to have at tow sites.
He was hooked into the glider...
On dolly and platform it's physically impossible to omit the hook-in check.
...but he was flying too slowly...
On aero you have no choice but to fly the same speed as the tug - and he flies a bit uncomfortably fast for the glider.
On surface static you fly a minimum of what the vehicle's doing - and the vehicle's watching an airspeed indicator.
On payout you don't launch until you hit a minimum airspeed indicated on an airspeed indicator.

Nobody flies too slowly on tow.
...coming out of the slot on a ratty day when he needed more airspeed, especially while flying close to the hill.
The hill which you don't have in conventional towing.
We rescued the pilot, who was uninjured, but the U2 wasn't quite so lucky.
Thanks for so consisely making a lot of my points for me, JR - but go fuck yourself anyway.
User avatar
Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9149
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: launching

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29209
Just another tree landing.
Dave Hopkins - 2013/06/06 21:32:07 UTC

Image Image Image Totally pilot error...
Name some of these incidents which AREN'T.
...three times he tried to commit suicide and luckly failed. But brain lock is serious paralyzer. I'm sure others have tried to point out the errors of his way.
He knew the errors of his ways well before he was pointed back towards the ridge.
Thanks for posting the video. I can use it as a teaching tool.
Khalesh - 2013/06/06 22:35:29 UTC
Portland, Oregon

I think this is the best thing that could have ever happened to this guy. Now that his U2 is destroyed he will no longer try to kill himself with his poor flying skills.
Fuck you, dude. If we eliminated everyone from the sport who'd ever made a mistake of that caliber there'd be precious few thermal markers around for the two or three perfect people remaining.
2013/06/07 06:23:18 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Christopher LeFay
Says the guy who's still around 'cause somebody notified him that he wasn't connected to his glider. Fuck you, Christopher.
2013/06/07 03:57:39 UTC - Sink This! -- Carm Moreno
Rat own, Carm.
Jesse Yoder - 2013/06/07 01:11:29 UTC
Arlington, Virginia

FYI, the OP is not the pilot in the video. Flaming the pilot here on the org is unnecessary, as local discussion on the incident has been completed.
Would flaming the pilot be OK if the original poster WAS the pilot in the video or local discussion on the incident HADN'T been completed?
Tom Lyon - 2013/06/07 03:52:08 UTC
Michigan

It would be interesting to hear the pilot's thoughts.
Anybody who's ever lost control of a slow glider at any altitude already knows the pilot's thoughts.
I'm guessing that he was completely unaware of his initial errors and then his mind just froze when he got turned back toward the trees.
By the way, I never, ever say "That couldn't happen to me". I always just try to learn from these accidents and be the safest pilot I can be.
I'm glad that the pilot was willing to share this video.
Gets more points than Chris did for having his pulled, doesn't he?
I do find it unfortunate that comments sometimes go from clearly identifying the errors that led to an accident (like an NTSB report) to saying insulting things about the pilot.
Like just happened here.
That undoubtedly prompts some to withhold their stories or videos so that others can learn.
It shouldn't. Assholes like Khalesh and Christopher only do damage to themselves.
2013/06/07 11:23:04 UTC - 3 thumbs up - JohnC
Christopher LeFay - 2013/06/07 07:24:42 UTC

DON'T GO PRONE
Bullshit.
The contribution of airspeed is undeniable. Maybe airspeed was the first mistake from which the accident cascade started;
Maybe?
maybe it was reaching for more glider/conditions/launch site than justified by experience...
Bull fucking shit.
- Tell me how the glider had ANY BEARING on anything.
- Ditto with conditions and launch site.

He knows what mistakes he made and they weren't huge. They just had rather huge consequences in that situation.
The right conditions and unlucky timing could present a sudden turn directly off launch to even a cautious, seasoned pilot. What options would they have? When circumstance or mistake take away your options, you can only do what remains. In this case, perhaps, deciding what position to crash in.

Here, the pilot's launch posture precluded a critical tactic that may have saved the launch- a tactic that has come to my aid time and time again. When radical turning is required, all weight must be displaced as far as possible and held.
What do you think the chances are of him making the mistakes he did AGAIN?
How? By remaining upright until clear of launch and in control...
Yep. Whenever you're near the surface and the issue of speed is most critical you just can't go wrong by being upright.
...we retain the option of shifting both hands to one down tube and hanging all of our weight from it- delivering the most authoritative, sustained turn input possible.
- Get fucked.

- Speaking of roll authority... Did anyone wanna make a comment about his spreader bar being ten inches down from where it's supposed to be? Just kidding.
A sudden turn when prone invariably bells the pilot to the low side- further establishing the turn; they must struggle against gravity just to keep from falling deeper into the turn, and, with little leverage, are in a weak position to do much about it.
Idiot.
Staying upright puts this tool in your tool chest.
Which is a real good thing - especially for assholes who don't feel that verifying their connection two to five seconds prior to commitment is a tool worth having or mentioning.
Staying upright avoids compounding problems with mistakes while transition prone and when most vulnerable- near the ground.
- And if you're not hooked in you might get lucky and...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17330
Take your flying--seriously--OR....
Bille Floyd - 2010/05/26 03:27:41 UTC

After hitting the ground i looked down at where my feet should be and knew it was Bad--then i looked back at my Mom and sighed,i wasn't going to be taking care of her any more.
...land on your feet.

- How vulnerable are you when you come out of a launch cart with:
-- no upper bridle attachment to trim your nose down properly?
-- a release actuator somewhere other than on the basetube or in your teeth?
-- a piece of fishing line in the system which at the worst possible time, when the glider is climbing hard in a near stall situation?
-- all of the issues above?
Staying upright until well away from launch positions you to continue running if suddenly dropped back onto the hill.
And we see SO MANY people doing mountain launches and resuming running when they've been dumped back down on the slope.
Habitually staying upright prevents the pilot from masking serious launch deficiencies by jumping into the harness.
- Yeah, he did jump into the harness a wee bit early - but he had plenty of margin and that had it ZERO relevance to the incident.
- If you're staying upright more than one second longer than necessary you're introducing serious launch deficiencies.
Circumstance or error will eventually conspire to hurt us.
Especially flying with a stronglink. You WILL eventually experience a low level lockout and will have deprived yourself of an element of a proven system that works and has an extremely long track record.
When that time comes, have as many options open as technique and judgement allow for.
Except, of course, for the ability to stuff the bar and get the fuck outta there.
Stay upright during launch- and remember that launch doesn't end when your feet leave the ground.
Mine does. I'm in optimal flying mode at the earliest opportunity.

And I'd say Jonathan is too:

Bush Gooning my Sport 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVGEK1GkCwA
Glide L.A. - 2013/05/29
dead

0:16 - Commits - forward motion.
0:18 - Airborne. Mostly prone. Left hand comes down to basetube.
0:20 - Fully prone. Right hand on basetube.

Off the surface to full flying mode: two seconds.

Landing... Full flying mode to standup landing flare: five seconds.
User avatar
Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9149
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: launching

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29209
Just another tree landing.
piano_man - 2013/06/07 04:35:42

Along the lines of pulling in and getting your airspeed up, check out how Jonny Durand pulls in on instinct then shifts his weight to the left. Go to 3:08.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoYoSx22SuE
Also note:
- the:
-- dust devil coming through launch and trolling for Aussie Methodist assholes
-- Marzec Link on his left shoulder
-- bent pin barrel release on his right shoulder
-- absence of weak link protection for the bent pin barrel release on his right shoulder
-- position of the basetube under his sternum while he's on tow
- that:
-- he never goes upright for increased roll authority
-- when he foot launches he starts proning out while he's still running
-- both hands are on the basetube within one second of his feet leaving the ground
-- when he's building speed for a loop the basetube's in the same position it was when he was under tow
-- both hands are still on the basetube two seconds prior to the foot landing flare
-- he's not landing in a narrow dry riverbed with large rocks strewn all over the place
Post Reply