Re: Weak links
Posted: 2020/10/02 20:47:04 UTC
http://ozreport.com/9.032
The Worlds - weaklinks
A doubled weak link... Well yeah, as long as you're flying a RIGID wing glider there is little reason to expect trouble on tow, except from a weak link break. But for us flexies of course we're locking out low left and right and our only hope for survival beyond two or three weekends is a single which will break before the pressure of the towline reaches a level that compromises the handling of the glider.
No, that really doesn't make sense. I guess what I really mean is we WOULD BE locking out low left and right if we weren't using a single which will break before the pressure of the towline reaches a level that compromises the handling of the glider. The towline pressure is constantly increasing as we climb out and without that weak link doing its job our handling of the glider will be so compromised that we won't be able to handle it.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15716
weak links
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31747
Lockout
How 'bout?:
14-0614 - 18-0801
23-1020 - 24-1117
The Tad-O-Link on that one, two Augusts ago, doesn't do anything - same as you and Bobby. And the tow's able to continue just fine anyway. So what's the scenario in which you're happier with your Tad-O-Link than you would be with a loop of thousand pound Spectra?
Also... Why does your pro toad bridle need to be 750 pounds? Isn't that at least half a ton towline? Your weak link is gonna blow at four hundred - along with the tow mast according to Quest. What's your point? Why should we give a rat's ass if it holds to four hundred or better?
Funny we don't ever seem to be hearing about VG setting prior to Balado two weeks ago after Oliver's happened to get kicked off on launch. I guess it was such an obvious issue those prior three decades that nobody ever dreamt it would ever need any discussion. Along the lines running in the direction of the high wing...
069-25104
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1572/26142964830_289bc3f2cb_o.png
...to level the glider through weight shift alone with your hands resting effortlessly on the control tubes. (Is there a VG setting you're recommending for that scenario on launch, Ryan?)
http://ozreport.com/12.081
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules
Poll on weaklinks
http://airtribune.com/2019-big-spring-nationals/info/details__info
2019 Big Spring Nationals (pre-Pan-Americans)
http://airtribune.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com/media/contest/files/2019/07/GTxd6mT4AIn8.pdf
Local Rules
200 is actually a reasonable one-size-fits-all. But we can offer 140 (which is actually 130 (Davis is easily confused by numbers greater than zero) because:
- Weak link strength is no longer a safety issue. We just use whatever we're happy with - like sail colors.
- If we suddenly went full cold turkey that would mean weak link strength actually is an important issue and 65 percent of what we're mandating now had issues beyond inconvenience.
- When a Jeff Bohl gets killed in a low level pro toad lockout we don't mention weak link strength to hopefully deprive Team Kite Strings of the data and illustrate its irrelevance to the public. Could've been the old 140 stuff or the new 200 that many of us became happy with post Marzec. (Which is actually mostly true.)
Include the Skyting bridle in Towing Aloft - a decade and a half after everybody figured out that it did absolutely nothing that a two point wasn't doing way better. It makes the book a lot heavier and helps con the pilot into believing that he's purchasing something of positive value.
This:
15-2928
http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50376674553_0a1d9b538c_o.png
was absolutely historic. Yeah, you'd have been absolutely fine if that VG hadn't popped off. As it was you nearly killed the tug. Not to mention having to have a tow aborted that would've otherwise gone off like clockwork regardless of conditions.
When we get another 2004/08 near fatal Pagen or 2013/02/02 actual fatal Zack Marzec it'll be 'cause of an unspecified inappropriate VG setting. So take a bunch of hops to really get it right and use the landings to get your flare timing perfected. Two birds...
The Worlds - weaklinks
Of course not, Davis. You've never been wrong about anything. And when you are you just ban the guy who pointed it out so what's the problem anyway?Davis Straub - 2005/02/07
For a couple of years I have flown with a doubled weaklink because, flying with a rigid wing glider, I have found that there is little reason to expect trouble on tow, except from a weaklink break. Am I wrong in this?
A doubled weak link... Well yeah, as long as you're flying a RIGID wing glider there is little reason to expect trouble on tow, except from a weak link break. But for us flexies of course we're locking out low left and right and our only hope for survival beyond two or three weekends is a single which will break before the pressure of the towline reaches a level that compromises the handling of the glider.
No, that really doesn't make sense. I guess what I really mean is we WOULD BE locking out low left and right if we weren't using a single which will break before the pressure of the towline reaches a level that compromises the handling of the glider. The towline pressure is constantly increasing as we climb out and without that weak link doing its job our handling of the glider will be so compromised that we won't be able to handle it.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15716
weak links
Guess not then.Davis Straub - 2009/04/26 22:05:31 UTC
Tad doesn't agree, but the rest of us no doubt do, that we are in a partnership with the tug pilot, and that he needs to be protected also, and therefore our weaklink has to be less than his.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31747
Lockout
Yeah? At the 2014 Big Spring Nationals three weeks ago you were flying a T2 144. That's not a rigid - so how can you be happy with a Tad-O-Link? What happened to the trouble you were implying that you were having on flexies that your single was taking care of?Davis Straub - 2014/09/01 15:22:41 UTC
I can tell you that I fly with a 200lb weaklink on one side of my 750lb pro tow bridle. I am happy with it.
How 'bout?:
14-0614 - 18-0801
23-1020 - 24-1117
The Tad-O-Link on that one, two Augusts ago, doesn't do anything - same as you and Bobby. And the tow's able to continue just fine anyway. So what's the scenario in which you're happier with your Tad-O-Link than you would be with a loop of thousand pound Spectra?
Also... Why does your pro toad bridle need to be 750 pounds? Isn't that at least half a ton towline? Your weak link is gonna blow at four hundred - along with the tow mast according to Quest. What's your point? Why should we give a rat's ass if it holds to four hundred or better?
Funny we don't ever seem to be hearing about VG setting prior to Balado two weeks ago after Oliver's happened to get kicked off on launch. I guess it was such an obvious issue those prior three decades that nobody ever dreamt it would ever need any discussion. Along the lines running in the direction of the high wing...
069-25104
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1572/26142964830_289bc3f2cb_o.png
...to level the glider through weight shift alone with your hands resting effortlessly on the control tubes. (Is there a VG setting you're recommending for that scenario on launch, Ryan?)
http://ozreport.com/12.081
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC
Getting pilots into the air quickly is also safer as it reduces the stress that pilots feel on the ground and keeps them focused on their job which is to launch safely and without hassling the ground crew or themselves. When we look at safety we have to look at the whole system, not just one component of that system. One pilot may feel that one component is unsafe from his point of view and desire a different approach, but accommodating one pilot can reduce the overall safety of the system.
Poll on weaklinks
Yet now...Jim Rooney - 2013/03/04 19:31:36 UTC
We all play by the same rules, or we don't play.
http://airtribune.com/2019-big-spring-nationals/info/details__info
2019 Big Spring Nationals (pre-Pan-Americans)
http://airtribune.fra1.digitaloceanspaces.com/media/contest/files/2019/07/GTxd6mT4AIn8.pdf
Local Rules
The weak link is no longer the focal point of a safe towing system. We've advanced enough to understand that the VG setting is actually the focal point of a safe towing system. And the one size that fits all is the setting that the individual pilot works best for him on his particular glider for pro toad AT launch.15 - Launch
Weaklinks of 140 and 200 pounds will be available and provided by the organizers. Weaklinks provided by the organizers must be used by the competitors.
200 is actually a reasonable one-size-fits-all. But we can offer 140 (which is actually 130 (Davis is easily confused by numbers greater than zero) because:
- Weak link strength is no longer a safety issue. We just use whatever we're happy with - like sail colors.
- If we suddenly went full cold turkey that would mean weak link strength actually is an important issue and 65 percent of what we're mandating now had issues beyond inconvenience.
- When a Jeff Bohl gets killed in a low level pro toad lockout we don't mention weak link strength to hopefully deprive Team Kite Strings of the data and illustrate its irrelevance to the public. Could've been the old 140 stuff or the new 200 that many of us became happy with post Marzec. (Which is actually mostly true.)
Include the Skyting bridle in Towing Aloft - a decade and a half after everybody figured out that it did absolutely nothing that a two point wasn't doing way better. It makes the book a lot heavier and helps con the pilot into believing that he's purchasing something of positive value.
This:
15-2928
http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50376674553_0a1d9b538c_o.png
was absolutely historic. Yeah, you'd have been absolutely fine if that VG hadn't popped off. As it was you nearly killed the tug. Not to mention having to have a tow aborted that would've otherwise gone off like clockwork regardless of conditions.
When we get another 2004/08 near fatal Pagen or 2013/02/02 actual fatal Zack Marzec it'll be 'cause of an unspecified inappropriate VG setting. So take a bunch of hops to really get it right and use the landings to get your flare timing perfected. Two birds...