Weak links

[Tad Eareckson]

http://airtribune.com/2019-big-spring-nationals/info/details__info
http://airtribune-production.s3.amazonaws.com/media/contest/files/2019/07/GTxd6mT4AIn8.pdf

2019 Big Spring Nationals - 2019/07

Weaklinks of 140 and 200 pounds will be available and provided by the organizers. Weaklinks provided by the organizers must be used by the competitors.

Really Davis? 'Cause a bit over eleven years prior you said:

http://ozreport.com/12.081
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules

Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC

Here is the requirement from the 2007 Worlds local rules (which I wrote) for weaklinks:

Competitors must use appropriate aerotow bridles as determined by the Meet Director and Safety Director and their designated officials. Bridles must include secondary releases (as determined by the Safety Director). Bridles must be able to be connected to the tow line within two seconds. The only appropriate bridles can be found here:
http://OzReport.com/9.039#0

and:
http://ozreport.com/9.041#2.



Pilots who have not already had their bridles inspected during the practice days must bring their bridles to the mandatory pilot safety briefing and have them reviewed. Pilots with inappropriate bridles may purchase appropriate bridles from the meet organizer.

Weaklinks

Pilots must use weaklinks provided by the meet organizers and in a manner approved by the meet organizers. All weaklinks will be checked and use of inappropriate weaklinks will require the pilot to go to the end of the launch line to change the weaklink.

Weaklinks will consist of a single loop of Cortland 130 lb Greenspot braided Dacron Tolling line http://www.cortlandline.com/catalog/braid.html and should be placed at one end of a shoulder bridle. The tow forces on the weaklink will be roughly divided in half by this placement. Pilots will be shown how to tie the weaklink so that it more likely breaks at its rating breaking strength.

For many years a number of us (US pilots) have felt that #8 bricklayers nylon line was not an appropriate material to use for weaklinks as it is not as consistent in its breaking strength (as far as we are concerned) as the Greenspot line used in the US. At the 2008 Forbes Flatlands Greenspot for the first time was used as the standard weaklink material (thanks in large part to the efforts of Bobby Bailey). We applaud these efforts to improve the safety of aerotowing by using a better weaklink material.

If the weaklink is at one end of the bridle then there is little to no reason to replace the weaklink after each flight. The weaklink should be replaced if it shows any signs of wear as its strength may be reduced. The weaklink is constructed using "fisherman's knots."

A single loop of weaklink is used at the end of the V-bridle or the end of the pro tow bridle.

Pilots at the 2007 Worlds were not actually required to use the bridles pictures above unless their bridle couldn't be hooked up quickly to the carabineer at the end of the tow rope. They could have a weaklink (four strands) that connected their bridle to the carabineer. They just had to have the loops of the weaklink available to be hooked to by the ground crew. This would obviously require a carabineer at the end of the tow rope, and would leave the weaklink attached to the carabineer after the pilot releases, requiring that it be taken off by the ground crew before hooking up to the next pilot. Of course, a locking carabineer could be used.

It was required that pilots be able to be connected to the tow line quickly both in order to be fair to all pilots and get them in the air in time to compete with each other, as well as to promote safety. It is safer to have a simple uniform release/bridle system that the ground crew is familiar with and can determine if there is a problem. The simpler and more uniform the safer, system wide.

Getting pilots into the air quickly is also safer as it reduces the stress that pilots feel on the ground and keeps them focused on their job which is to launch safely and without hassling the ground crew or themselves. When we look at safety we have to look at the whole system, not just one component of that system. One pilot may feel that one component is unsafe from his point of view and desire a different approach, but accommodating one pilot can reduce the overall safety of the system.

I look forward to any response from the HGFA or other interested persons. Again, I have a direct personal and minor financial interest in the issues raised by this discussion, but no financial interest when it comes to weaklink material.

But now you've gotta use either a 140 or a 200. Back then...

- If you used a 140 it would've been ruled inappropriate and you'd have been sent to the end of the line to swap it out for an acceptably safe one. And I imagine if you'd shown up with a 200 - which would've been a virtual death sentence for both you and your Pilot In Command back then - you'd have been immediately ejected from the event and banned for life from any and all future competitions.

- One asshole might have felt that that a loop of 130 was unsafe from his point of view and decided to go with a 200 approach. And accommodating that one total dickhead would've cut the overall safety of the system in half. Who knows how many innocent 130ers he might have taken out with him.

- We all played by the same rules...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/04 19:31:36 UTC

We all play by the same rules, or we don't play.

...or we didn't play. So aren't some of us now enjoying unfair advantages? Pretty safe bet they are and that the ones who are....

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/15 06:48:18 UTC

Davis has been at an around all this plenty long enough to understand what's what and who's who.

...are the ones using the more dangerous weak links.

Competitors must use appropriate aerotow bridles as determined by the Meet Director and Safety Director and their designated officials.

What qualifications do the Meet and Safety Directors and their designated officials have to evaluate appropriate aerotow bridles and determining whether or not it's the cheap easily reachable bent pin shit they sell and can force competitors to buy? Can I see the set of minimum standards to which appropriate aerotow bridles must comply? Anything beyond "easily stowed"? Is there a maximum number of competitors it's allowed to kill before it's disqualified from competitions and sold off to students at losses?

For many years a number of us (US pilots) have felt that #8 bricklayers nylon line was not an appropriate material to use for weaklinks as it is not as consistent in its breaking strength (as far as we are concerned) as the Greenspot line used in the US.

For how many years?

What number of us (US pilots) have felt that #8 bricklayers nylon line:
- was not an appropriate material to use for weaklinks?
- was a totally excellent material to use for weaklinks?
- didn't give a rat's ass one way or another?

Did any of them base anything regarding the breaking strength consistency of single loop of Cortland 130 lb Greenspot braided Dacron Tolling line on anything beyond his feelings? (Just kidding.)

How come the Aussie pilots who'd been actually using the #8 bricklayers nylon line didn't feel that it was not an appropriate material to use for weaklinks as it was not as consistent in its breaking strength (as far as you were concerned) as the Greenspot line used in the US? 'Cause they're pretty much all total douchebags? So unlike a number of us (US pilots)?

How many Aussie pilots do you figure they needlessly killed over the course of those many years when a number of us (US pilots) were feeling that #8 bricklayers nylon line was not an appropriate material to use for weaklinks as it was not as consistent in its breaking strength (as far as you were concerned) as the Greenspot line used in the US?

So you motherfuckers haven't actually tested anything, have no fuckin' clues regarding actual breaking strengths, let alone consistency of actual breaking strengths, right...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15716
weak links

Davis Straub - 2009/04/19 19:32:23 UTC

Tree branch, spectra line, your body.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Davis Straub - 2013/03/06 18:29:05 UTC

I'm thinking about doing a bit more testing as there seemed to be some disagreement around here about what the average breaking strength of a loop of Greenspot (or orange) weaklink was.

...Davis?

For many years a number of us (US pilots) have felt that #8 bricklayers nylon line was not an appropriate material to use for weaklinks as it is not as consistent in its breaking strength (as far as we are concerned) as the Greenspot line used in the US. At the 2008 Forbes Flatlands Greenspot for the first time was used as the standard weaklink material (thanks in large part to the efforts of Bobby Bailey). We applaud these efforts to improve the safety of aerotowing by using a better weaklink material.

How very odd. 'Cause precisely nine months before you posted this - and several weeks before the 2007 Worlds at Big Spring - a number of us (US pilots)...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/07/22 22:30:28 UTC

I've heard it a million times before from comp pilots insisting on towing with even doubled up weaklinks (some want no weaklink). I tell them the same thing I'm telling you... suck it up. You're not the only one on the line. I didn't ask to be a test pilot. I can live with your inconvenience.

...a million of us US comp pilots to be precise and specific - felt that the single loop of Cortland 130 lb Greenspot braided Dacron Tolling line you mandated for the 2007 Worlds was half as consistent as it needed to be. And Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney, of whom you are one of his countless...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 06:15:12 UTC

You may not know, but Davis is a friend of mine.

...great friends (although you might not have known this), had to tell them all to suck it up with respect to this standard weaklink material we have (thanks in large part to the efforts of Bobby Bailey) and all applaud with respect to the efforts to improve the safety of aerotowing. (Really astonishing the way Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney's able to maintain so many great friends in the sport with his approach to relationships.)

So since when did consistency in hang glider weak link breaking strength start becoming a GOOD thing? Rohan Holtkamp says:

http://ozreport.com/9.032
The Worlds - weaklinks

Rohan Holtkamp - 2005/02/07

Robin's own release failed to release, plus he refused our weaklink, even to the point of yelling and physical threat. After viewing video evidence of the entire flight, even a 80kg weaklink would have made little difference. His actual weaklink did test to be stronger than 180kg, but that was not the primary cause of his accident. Release failure was, same as Mike Nooy's accident. A full lockout can be propagated with less than forty kg of tension. Read "Taming the beast" on our website and/or come have a look at the video if you doubt this in any way.

For us Yanks who talk and think in pounds that's:
180 - minimum legal for a 225 pound max loaded glider (which I doubt actually exists in the real world)
400 - the top appropriate weak link you're mandating now
090 - good freakin' luck getting anything airborne

Dr. Trisa Tilletti says:

Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06

Actually, that is our expectation of performance for weak links on hang gliders here at Cloud 9, too. Primarily, we want the weak link to fail as needed to protect the equipment, and not fail inadvertently or inconsistently. We want our weak links to break as early as possible in lockout situations, but be strong and reliable enough to avoid frequent weak link breaks from turbulence. It is the same expectation of performance that we have for the weak links we use for towing sailplanes.

Normal climb in smooth air behind a 914 minus turbo is 125 pounds, 35 pounds more than you need for a lockout, and turbulence can jerk your tension up to whatever. So to meet your expectation of performance for weak links on hang gliders there at Cloud 9 you want the weak link to break as early as possible in lockout situations at 90 pounds or under and hold at a minimum of 400 pounds to avoid frequent breaks from turbulence. And the only way you can achieve that is by using a weak link that breaks with a level of inconsistency beyond all imagination. The inconsistency of #8 bricklayers nylon line in its breaking strength (as far as we are concerned) doesn't come within a mile of beginning to scratch the surface. (See how much fun arithmetic can be when you start plugging in actual numbers, people of varying ages?)

Pilots will be shown how to tie the weaklink so that it more likely breaks at its rating breaking strength.

Totally backwards, Davis. Gotta show them how to tie the weaklink so that it LESS likely breaks at its rating breaking strength. I can't stress enough how important it is to get these things breaking at pressures all over the fuckin' map. Randomness is our only ghost of a chance for long term survival. At an absolute minimum you need them breaking inconsistently at 140 and 200 pounds to help level the playing field.

If the weaklink is at one end of the bridle then there is little to no reason to replace the weaklink after each flight.

You're on the right track there, Davis. That'll help a little bit with inconsistency.

The weaklink should be replaced if it shows any signs of wear as its strength may be reduced.

I think your best bet is to start out with some thousand pound bricklayer's twine then grind it into a sharp rock with your foot the way you do when you're load testing your sidewires, work harden it a fair bit, bake it in the sun for a couple weeks. Get it so's its breaking strength is totally unpredictable.

The weaklink is constructed using "fisherman's knots."

If Jeff Bohl had been flying with his extremely consistent 200 pound Tad-O-Link "constructed" with something way less consistent than a "fisherman's knot" he'd have almost certainly come away smelling like a rose.

Weaklinks will consist of a single loop of Cortland 130 lb Greenspot braided Dacron Tolling line http://www.cortlandline.com/catalog/braid.html and should be placed at one end of a shoulder bridle.

At ONE end of a shoulder bridle?

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=11519
Aerotowing methods

Ryan Voight - 2009/04/13 23:27:29 UTC

But don't forget the weaklinks- one on each side!!!

Dallas Willis - 2009/04/14 00:08:15 UTC

Ryan are you serious?!?!

One weaklink on the side you don't normally release from is all you need (less wear and tear on the weaklink). 2 weaklinks = 2 chances for a weaklink to inadvertently break which is bad.

Twice as many bridle ends, twice as much inconsistency. Ya just never know when an inadvertent weaklink break is gonna critically increase the safety of the towing operation. At the very worst it would be an inconvenience. And nobody ever got a skinned knee...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Davis Straub - 2013/03/06 18:29:05 UTC

I'm happy to have a relatively weak weaklink, and have never had a serious problem with the Greenspot 130, just an inconvenience now and then.

...from an inconvenience now and then - just an extra dose of happiness.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27393
Pro towing: 1 barrel release + weak link or 2 barrel release

Juan Saa - 2012/10/18 01:19:49 UTC

The normal braking force in pounds for a weak link is around 180, at least that is the regular weak link line used at most aerotow operations. By adding a second weak link to your bridal you are cutting the load on each link by half, meaning that the weak link will not break at the intended 180 pounds but it will need about 360.
If that is what you use and is what your instructor approved then I have no business on interfering, i dont know if you are using the same weak link material but there shoul be only ONE weak link on a tow bridle for it to be effective in breaking before higher loads are put into you and the glider should the glider gets to an attitude or off track so much that the safety fuse of the link is needed to break you free from the tug.

I made the same mistake on putting two weak links thinking that I was adding protection to my setup and I was corrected by two instructors on separate occacions at Quest Air and at the Florida RIdge.

You just gotta marvel at the inconsistency level of this:



Rube Goldberg contraption.

- Three easily reachable releases at two easily reachable locations, two bent pin jobs which don't pretend to be accessible in an emergency, one Linknife which does pretend to be accessible in an emergency.

- Two extremely consistent single loops of Cortland 130 lb Greenspot braided Dacron Tolling line which break at whatever loading your instructor has approved them to and violate the competition rules (which you wrote) that state:

Weaklinks will consist of a single loop of Cortland 130 lb Greenspot braided Dacron Tolling line http://www.cortlandline.com/catalog/braid.html and should be placed at one end of a shoulder bridle.

(Really gotta admire the depth of inconsistency you've engineered into this post. (It would taken me years to pull off something like this. Hell, it's taken me well over a decade just to start fully appreciating just how mind bogglingly convoluted you've made it.))

- A thin pro toad bridle ten times longer than it should be with bulgy eye splices at both ends such that it's optimized to clear the tow ring inconsistently.

And...

Now you're letting people choose between 140 and 200. I'll bet that #8 bricklayers nylon line is a lot more consistent in its breaking strength (as far as we are concerned) than the 140/200 free-for-all you're doing now. And I'll bet that a single loop of Cortland 130 lb Greenspot braided Dacron Tolling line breaks a lot more consistently at its breaking strength than a single loop of the 140 breaks at the single loop of Cortland 130 lb Greenspot braided Dacron Tolling line's breaking strength.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Davis Straub - 2011/08/28 15:26:28 UTC

Then again, Russell Brown had us double up behind him after six breaks in a row at Zapata. We couldn't figure out why we had so many breaks so quickly. Maybe just coincidence.

Looks like you finally figured out why we had so many breaks so quickly. They weren't strong enough I'm guessing? Or was there some other reason you dialed up the minimum 7.7 percent? Are you having fewer coincidences now?

But aren't six breaks in a row very quickly at Zapata pretty much indisputable, case closed, end of story proof of the single loop of Cortland 130 lb Greenspot braided Dacron Tolling line as the Holy Grail of the consistency that a number of us (US pilots) so fervently desired to achieve optimal weak link performance?

P.S. Have you considered using fewer tugs? That would probably also help prevent having so many breaks so quickly. Maybe also using...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3661
Flying the 914 Dragonfly

Jim Rooney - 2008/12/06 20:01:49 UTC

You will only ever need full throttle for the first fifty feet of a tandem tow. Don't ever pull a solo at full throttle... they will not be able to climb with you. You can tow them at 28 mph and you'll still leave them in the dust... they just won't be able to climb with you... weaklinks will go left and right.

...safer tugs. Hell, go nuts - all 582s and fewer of them.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Davis Straub - 2011/08/26 14:04:52 UTC

Greenspot is now black.

We had six weaklink breaks in a row at Zapata this year. Russell Brown (tug pilot, tug owner, Quest Air owner) said go ahead and double up (four strands of Cortland Greenspot). He knows I used his Zapata weaklink in Big Spring (pilots were asked to tell the tug pilot if they were doing that).

Different colors, different glider models and weights, single and double loops at the whims of the pilots, gotta tell Russell Brown (tug pilot, tug owner, Quest Air owner) what you're doing but not any of the other tug pilots. Massive weak link inconsistency.

So now you can pick 140 or 200 - regardless of your max certified operating weight, flying weight, glider model, muppet or rockstar status, 914 or 582 tug. A suicidal little Niki girl glider can go up at 2.0 Gs and 350 pound guy glider can go up at 0.8. And a 375 pounder can use the ultra-safe 140 and violate the FAA minimum weak link regs.

140 because experience has shown that you can get an unacceptably high rate of inconveniences and coincidences if you go any safer and 200 'cause any more dangerous and you kill too many gliders and tugs. So why not go for the sweet spot? 175 - dead center, best of all worlds. You're not even ALLOWED to fly 175 - even if you bring your own.

Another way of saying that the top one will be totally useless in any emergency situation. Yeah...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3391
More on Zapata and weak link

Paul Tjaden - 2008/07/22 04:32:22 UTC

I got clobbered and rolled hard right in a split second. I have never had a lockout situation happen so quickly and dramatically and had no chance to release as I have always thought I could do.

http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7077/27082298482_cda1aba01b_o.png


Big fuckin' surprise.

So has anyone ever actually USED an:



at one of your comps? I've never seen one in a video of a comp or a video of anything else, never heard of anyone actually using one - let alone being saved by one in an emergency. And strangely there was zero discussion of them in the wake of the 2016/05/21 Jeff Bohl.

At the 2008 Forbes Flatlands Greenspot for the first time was used as the standard weaklink material (thanks in large part to the efforts of Bobby Bailey). We applaud these efforts to improve the safety of aerotowing by using a better weaklink material.

Are we still applauding these efforts now that we're requiring a min of 140 and allowing a max of 200? Did we needlessly kill anyone on the 130 when it increased the safety of the towing operation by overriding the decisions of the two humans involved to continue the tow...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg


...who would’ve probably been OK if he'd been...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/04 19:31:36 UTC

Morningside decided that they were happy with 200lb weaklink.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31747
Lockout

Davis Straub - 2014/09/01 15:22:41 UTC

I can tell you that I fly with a 200lb weaklink on one side of my 750lb pro tow bridle. I am happy with it.

...happy with the two hundred that...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31717
Weak link?

Davis Straub - 2014/08/20 19:48:26 UTC

Many of us are now using 200 lb test line from Cortland.

...many of us now are?

Are the "many of us" who or now using 200 lb test line from Cortland the same "many of us" (US pilots) who formerly\ felt that #8 bricklayers nylon line was not an appropriate material to use for weaklinks as it was not as consistent in its breaking strength (as far as they were concerned) as the Greenspot line used in the US? Or did you redefine the qualifications for the "many of us" who are empowered to determine what "all of us" will be permitted to fly / prevented from flying with on our gliders - irrespective of u$hPa SOPs and FAA regs?

It's great that we applaud these tremendous efforts by Bobby and the rest of you assholes to improve the safety of aerotowing by using a precision fishing line that blows six times in a row in light morning conditions, dumps little girl gliders on takeoffs and half kills them, blows on comp pilots six times in a row in light morning conditions, dumps pro toad tandem aerotow instructors in monster thermals and fatally tumbles them, is currently outlawed in US comps for being excessively safe and inconvenient...

If I'd known I could've gotten all applause by that route I wouldn't have wasted all those thousands of hours developing bulletproof, clean, efficient, high powered AT release, bridle, weak link systems - stuff that holds or blows inconsistency between zero and six hundred pounds towline on the decision of the PILOT who maintains continuous control as the PILOT - for the thanks of getting pissed all over by untold scores of stupid scummy Davis, Jack, Greblo, Bob Show dregs.

[Tad Eareckson]

Yesterday I stumbled upon:

http://ozreport.com/6.178
Update on Tandem Accident

Martin Henry - 2002/09/04

Here is an update of the investigation into the August 17th 2002 dual fatality tandem flight at Fort Langley BC.

I would like to say that we know the cause of this accident, but it continues to be a mystery. What is known is the following.

This was a normal instructional flight, using a Double Vision Tandem glider, flown in the upper lower tandem configuration. The student had enough experience that he had moved to the bottom tandem position with the instructor using the top position. The glider was being towed by a Moyes Tug (912S modified) and was using a standard V bridal system with both upper and back up lower releases and a tow line length of around 300'. The flight plan includes a 1000-ft release altitude, for instructor/student training. From take-off to the 1000-ft altitude the flight appeared "normal".

Weather conditions were good. No unusual turbulence had been detected during earlier tows to 2500ASL.

At or near the release altitude the glider violently departed from tow in what appears to be severe left lock-out. The "lock-out" may or may not have been the result of loss of control or aircraft failure.

The tug pilot indicated that he had just completed a shallow right turn and the tow was "normal" then there was a sudden increase in tow pressure at which point the weak link at the tugs end failed. (The force of the event bent the upper unsupported section of the tugs bridal attachment point, at which point the tugs weak link failed).

At this point in time it is not known why the hang glider’s weak link did not fail. Inspection of the hang glider’s tow components confirm that the weak link was present and had not failed. (At the crash site the weak link was found released from the upper release, this may or may not be the result of being released by either of the pilots but may have been the result of releasing at impact).

After departure from tow, the hang glider entered a severe left "wing-over", followed by a very steep spiral decent. It is believed that during the initial stages of decent the hang glider became tangled in the towline with a substantial amount of towline becoming tangled in the left wing. At some point during this descent, at a very low altitude, the emergency parachute was deployed. Inspection of both the parachute and the deployment system indicates that a pilot (unknown) had successfully deployed the parachute but at too low an altitude to open. Next the glider "clipped" a tree then impacted at a steep angle in a pasture.

Damage at impact is extreme. It has been difficult to determine at what point any given component has failed. My preliminary evaluation of this crash indicates that the hang glider appears to have maintained its basic structural components until impact. Sail damage is so extensive it may not be possible to determine if a sail failure during the flight may have contributed to the accident.

During a careful inspection of the hang glider, a serious issue has been discovered that may or may not have contributed to this crash. The discovery of metal fatigue on the gliders landing gear/control bar combination has resulted in the need to post the following:

Important Airworthiness Notice.

The following notice applies to any Owner/Operators that are using Tandem Hang Gliders. This notice is not type specific but does apply to any gliders that have been fitted with any form of fixed wheels where the wheels are being used as the sole or primary landing system (castor type, slip on, or any other type that may be mounted to or over the stock or modified base tube).

Gliders fitting this description should not be flown until the following actions have been taken:

Any hardware associated with the mounting of wheels to the base tube should be removed and an inspection should be made to assess airworthiness of the base tube. Critical concerns include metal fatigue such as cracks in any of the components associated with this assembly. Particular attention should be paid to any areas of "sleeving" and or any areas where bolts or rivets may intersect such sleeving.

PLEASE NOTE: any suspicious damage should be completely evaluated. If over-sleeving is preventing proper inspection, sleeving must be removed to properly evaluate structural reliability.

Failure to inspect and correct any defect may result in catastrophic failure. Where practical, installation of an internal backup cable should be considered.

For any further information on this notification or for any individuals that may wish to contribute information pertaining to the accident currently under investigation, please contact Martin Henry.

Gold mine. Don't know how I managed to miss it over the course of the past one and two thirds decades.

I didn't think there was any solid info published on it and I'd had fuzzy picture of what had happened in my head which was almost totally wrong. The crash had absolutely nothing to do with the tow and relevant procedures and equipment beyond the fact that it was a Dragonfly that got the glider up there. But it's priceless in providing insights into the bullshit history of Dragonfly AT.

I worked for hours from yesterday afternoon to a fair bit into the night composing and editing, had gotten to within several minutes of being ready to click Submit, then lost EVERYTHING to a really unfortunately timed browser crash.

Oh well, rebooted, started reconstructing from memory, began getting new and different insights, ended up with a product three times the quality of what I'd have had minus the crash. Get comfortable...

Here is an update of the investigation into the August 17th 2002...

2002/08/17.

...dual fatality tandem flight at Fort Langley BC.

- And please don't trouble yourself to bore us with any information about the identities...

(Instructor - William Allen Woloshyniuk - Coquitlam.
Student - Victor Douglas Cox - Cumberland.
Both BC and age 40.)

...of the two guys who bought it on this one.

- This was Aerial Adventures, Randy Pankew and Mark Tullock, Fort Langley Airport - 49°10'03.69" N 122°33'24.02" W - 23 feet MSL - along the Fraser River. (This one could've ended up in it - for whatever that's worth.) Killed the operation - along with their tandem trainer, instructor, student, reputation, a fair chunk of hang gliding activity in the region...

I would like to say that we know the cause of this accident...

No you wouldn't. The primary objective in all these is to dodge liability. And the primary weapons you assholes have in dodging liability are vagueness, uncertainty, obfuscation, not knowing causes of any of these "accidents".

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25656
The young girl who died hang gliding solo

Jim Rooney - 2012/03/06 18:34:14 UTC

ND's onto it.

No one ever wants to wait for the accident investigation... they want to know "NOW DAMNIT!" and there's always a lot of self-serving arguments surrounding it.

And it's always the same.
The same damn arguments get drug up every time. And they're all just as pointless every time.

We have a system in place.
It works.
Let it work.

Our procedures are well established at this point in time and there are no gaping hidden holes that need to be addressed immediately.

RR asked what the status was.
ND's provided the answer (thank you).

Please take a deep breath. And wait.
Accident investigations involving fatalities take a long time. And by long, I mean they can take years.
(yes, years, I'm not kidding)

The sky is not falling.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Paul Tjaden - 2013/02/07 23:47:58 UTC

When the lift/turbulence was encountered, the weak link on the tow line broke as the nose of the glider pitched up quickly to a very high angle of attack. Apparently, the glider stalled or possibly did a short tail slide and then stalled and then nosed down and tumbled. Eye witnesses said the glider tumbled twice and then struck the ground with the base tube low. Due to the extremely low altitude, there was no time for the pilot to deploy his reserve parachute.

Zach was conscious immediately after the accident but died in route to the hospital.

Beyond these facts anything else would be pure speculation. I have personally had numerous weak link breaks on tow, both low and high, after hitting turbulence and have never felt in danger of a tumble. I have witnessed countless others have weak link breaks with no serious problems. We train aero tow pilots how to handle this situation and I am certain that Zach had also encountered this situation many times before and knew how to react properly. Apparently, Zach simply hit strong low level turbulence, probably a dust devil that could not be seen due to the lack of dust in Florida, the nose went too high and he tumbled at a very low altitude.

Strong dust devils in Florida definitely do exist even though they are rare. My wife had a near miss when she encountered a severe dusty a couple years ago and I almost lost a brand new $18,000 ATOS VX when it was torn from its tie down and thrown upside down.

I wish I could shed more light on this accident but I am afraid this is all we know and probably will know. Zach was a great guy with an incredible outlook and zest for life. He will be sorely missed.

William Olive - 2013/02/27 20:55:06 UTC

Like the rest of us, you have no idea what really happened on that tow.
We probably never will know.

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/28 01:17:55 UTC

Well said Billo
I'm a bit sick of all the armchair experts telling me how my friend died.

Ah but hg'ers get so uppity when you tell them not to speculate.

See?

You're investigating YOURSELVES. So do continue and be as vague and noncommittal about everything as much as you feel you can get away with.

...but it continues to be a mystery.

Good job. People just love stuff that continues to be mysteries. How dull this sport would be if incident reports were all cut and dried.

What is known is the following.

The identity and qualifications of the tug driver? Just kidding.

This was a normal instructional flight, using a Double Vision Tandem glider, flown in the upper lower tandem configuration.

Try over/under. And you already told us it was tandem - about three times.

The student had enough experience that he had moved to the bottom tandem position...

- As opposed to the bottom solo position?

- And they're much better at absorbing impact for the instructor down there.

- Did we go nuts on the first instructional flight and allow the student in the over position to touch a control tube or two for a few seconds after release?

- Before my first ever hang glider flight - 1980/04/02 - it was determined that I'd had enough experience to clip into the bottom solo position. And I foot launched, flew straight, wheel landed just fine. Why do you think it is that hang gliding students have gotten so massively less competent over the span of these past three decades? Or maybe the problem is with the instructors and/or instruction?

...with the instructor using the top position.

No shit. Glad you clarified that for us. (You getting paid by the word?)

The glider was being towed by a Moyes Tug (912S modified) and was using a standard V bridal..

- Figures.

- And are the tug and glider both using standard tandem aerotow weak links? Or are the focal points of their safe towing systems not worthy of inclusion in this discussion involving structural damage and a double fatal lockout?

- Guess you're using the 912 'cause of the extra power it delivers. A safety thing, right?

...system...

Is there some other bridle SYSTEM that bears some resemblance to some other letter of the alphabet that we don't know about? If not, can we just call it a bridLE?

...with both upper and back up lower releases...

- If the top one doesn't work just pull the bottom one. You'll be fine. Hell, just pull the bottom one first and use the top one as your backup. Six of one...

- Certified to be operable at what tow pressures?

- Note that that's the first and last mention of releases - back end only - to which we're privileged in this epic game changing disaster narrative. And that's NOT an oversight. Ditto for the dearth of info we're getting on the front and back end weak links.

...and a tow line length of around 300'.

Nice propwash mitigation length. But I think propwash is only a serious issue behind 582s at much higher density altitude runway situations.

The flight plan includes a 1000-ft release altitude, for instructor/student training.

- And a double fatal lockout at no extra charge on the third Saturday of every month.
- Did the flight plan consider responses to a lockout emergency? Just kidding.

From take-off to the 1000-ft altitude the flight appeared "normal".

Ain't it simply grand when that happens.

Weather conditions were good. No unusual turbulence had been detected during earlier tows to 2500ASL.

- Gotta love those sled runs.
- Are ya sure you don't wanna invent an invisible dust devil for this one? They've been working great for Quest and Whitewater lately.

At or near the release altitude...

The tug driver knows whether it was at or near release altitude 'cause he hadn't throttled back for wave-off. And we know it was near release altitude 'cause the back end didn't just happen to be releasing under full tension when all hell broke loose.

...the glider violently departed from tow in what appears to be severe left lock-out.

If it APPEARS to be severe left lockout it IS severe left lockout.

The "lock-out" may or may not have been the result of loss of control or aircraft failure.

The "lock-out" WAS the result of loss of control. Or do you wanna make a case for it having been deliberate? And it's also a no-brainer that the loss of control was precipitated by aircraft failure.

The tug pilot indicated that he had just completed a shallow right turn and the tow was "normal" then there was a sudden increase in tow pressure...

Of about how many PSIs?

...at which point the weak link at the tugs...

There were more than one of them?

...end failed.

Succeeded.

(The force...

Pressure.

...of the event bent the upper unsupported section of the tugs bridal attachment point...

- The tugs don't have upper unsupported sections of their bridal attachment points. They have tow masts.

- No it didn't. The mast extension is part of the tow system and is allegedly designed to break away in the event of excessive in-line or lateral loads.

...at which point the tugs weak link failed).

- Succeeded.

- The glider's weak link held, the tow mast bent over, and then the front end weak link failed? And you have that in parentheses 'cause none of this constitutes a big fuckin' deal?

At this point in time it is not known why the hang glider’s weak link did not fail.

Lemme give it a shot... The hang glider’s weak link did not fail because its breaking strength tension wasn't reached. But what do I know - I'm just a weekender muppet who only flies half a dozen times a year.

Inspection of the hang glider’s tow components confirm that the weak link was present and had not failed.

No shit. Two double loops of 130 pound Greenspot on bridles at different ends of the ropes, one that's never engaged in a release and never replaced and the other that's engaged in a release every flight and frequently replaced didn't both blow at precisely the same millisecond? Go figure.

But even though YOU'RE not bothering to tell us shit about either the front or back end focal points of the planes' safe towing systems we have from a wee bit over thirteen months prior to the incident:

http://ozreport.com/5.126
Flytec Dragonfly

USAFlytec - 2001/07/14

Steve Kroop - Russell Brown - Bob Lane - Jim Prahl - Campbell Bowen

The tail section of the Dragonfly is designed so that it can accept in-line as well as lateral loads. Furthermore the mast extension, which is part of the tow system, is designed to break away in the event of excessive in-line or lateral loads. The force required to cause a breakaway is roughly equivalent to the force required to break the double weaklink used on the tail bridle. More simply put, the mast would break away long before any structural damage to the aircraft would occur.

So we know exactly what the max loads were.

The tail section of the Dragonfly is designed so that it can accept in-line as well as lateral loads.

No shit. I'd have thunk that it would be a bit difficult to design the tail section of the Dragonfly so that it COULDN'T accept in-line as well as lateral loads.

Furthermore the mast extension, which is part of the tow system, is designed to break away in the event of excessive in-line or lateral loads.

The excessive in-line or lateral loads beyond which...

http://www.questairforce.com/aero.html
Aerotow FAQ

Quest Air Hang Gliding - 1998/02

Weak Link

The strength of the weak link is crucial to a safe tow. It should be weak enough so that it will break before the pressure of the towline reaches a level that compromises the handling of the glider but strong enough so that it doesn't break every time you fly into a bit of rough air. A good rule of thumb for the optimum strength is one G, or in other words, equal to the total wing load of the glider. Most flight parks use 130 lb. braided Dacron line, so that one loop (which is the equivalent to two strands) is about 260 lb. strong - about the average wing load of a single pilot on a typical glider. For tandems, either two loops (four strands) of the same line or one loop of a stronger line is usually used to compensate for nearly twice the wing loading. When attaching the weak link to the bridle, position the knot so that it's hidden from the main tension in the link and excluded altogether from the equation.

IMPORTANT - It should never be assumed that the weak link will break in a lockout.
ALWAYS RELEASE THE TOWLINE before there is a problem.

...the level of towline pressure compromises the handling of the glider - but not necessarily during a lockout.

And this was the incident that demonstrated that the tow mast WOULDN'T break away in the event the pressure of the towline was in the higher end of the range at which the handling of the glider couldn't be compromised (just experience a low towline pressure fatal lockout). It would just bend 'cause it actually WASN'T a breakaway and thus demonstrate that it WASN'T part of the tow system and actually WAS in fact a component of the structure of the aircraft and WAS being damaged by this still moderate pressure.

This is it - right here:

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question

Brian Vant-Hull - 2008/11/13 19:18:04 UTC

BTW, a highly experienced source who wishes to stay anonymous (call him "Deepfloat") because he doesn't want to get entangled in the name calling (we're all tired of it), has a very interesting point to make.

Deepfloat says the reason 3 strings are used on the tug end instead of 4 is because experience has shown that a 4 strand breaking strength causes damage to equipment, the tug being a far more complex mechanism than a glider. Using a 4 strand weaklink on a glider as advocated for heavier pilots effectively means you don't have a weaklink and will end up with the rope.

Jim Deepfloat Rooney shoots his mouth off about the switch the Flight Park Mafia made and wanted kept quiet 'cause it contradicts their carefully crafted 2001/07/14 press release on the issue and makes them look even more like the incompetent total morons we've always known them to have been.

Brian says "...has a very interesting point to make." The swap was made in the mid to late 2008 season and it was meant to be a stealth operation. NOBODY ANYWHERE knew about it. But Rooney can't resist showing how keenly intellectual and highly knowledgeable he is compared to all of Highland Aerosports' clueless muppet products, how totally lethal the Tad-O-Link is, and bursts out of his closet to...

Jim Rooney - 2008/11/20 22:25:38 UTC

Something to bear in mind... the tug's weaklink is three strand.

For clarity... A normal single loop weaklink would be considered two. A tandem double loop is considered four.

In the tandem setup, the "weaklink" in the system is at the tug end, not the glider.

Ya'll seem to be missing this.
Once you go beyond three strand... you're not using a weaklink. If the weaklink goes, you're getting the rope.
Paul found this out the hard way in Texas.

...repeat and emphasize the crap he's just relayed through Brian. (Suck my dick, Brian.)

So it took right about 6.0 years of intense Flight Park Mafia brainstorming to conclude that if you used a weak link in excess of the strength of an element of the structure of your tug the element of the structure of the tug would get trashed before the weak link would increase the safety of the towing operation. Solution... Dumb down the front end weak link. And hell, leave the tandem weak link alone 'cause the original plan was that it was identical to the front end weak link and the glider would end up with the rope half the time anyway.

AND... That helps keep the muppets in line with their Standard Aerotow Weak Links 'cause as soon as they start dialing up enough to cut down on their towing operation safety increasing inconveniences they're gonna start getting the rope. Worked on me for a while until one day I said, "FUCK THIS! If I'm gonna die as a consequence of an inconvenience stall it's gonna be THEIR end - not mine."

(At the crash site the weak link was found released from the upper release, this may or may not be the result of being released by either of the pilots but may have been the result of releasing at impact).

Who really gives a flying fuck? We know that the glider was held to the full capacity of the front end weak link and when it increased the safety of the towing operation the glider - minus a successful parachute deployment - was doomed. And they didn't get a successful deployment. All we're concerned about is the loss of control of the glider.

After departure from tow, the hang glider entered a severe left "wing-over"...

Boooring...

...followed by a very steep spiral decent.

You oughta try a very steep spiral indecent sometime. I can't speak highly enough about them.

It is believed that during the initial stages of decent the hang glider became tangled in the towline with a substantial amount of towline becoming tangled in the left wing. At some point during this descent, at a very low altitude, the emergency parachute was deployed. Inspection of both the parachute and the deployment system indicates that a pilot (unknown) had successfully deployed the parachute...

No he hadn't. If he had he'd have identified himself and told you all about it.

....but at too low an altitude to open.

You have rather broad definitions of "successful" and "deployment".

Next the glider "clipped" a tree then impacted at a steep angle in a pasture.

- Pretty good bet - 49°09'54.45" N 122°33'09.53" W - or real close by.
- Must've been using cheapo open-face helmets, salad bowls on strings. Otherwise they'd have both been fine.

Damage at impact is extreme. It has been difficult to determine at what point any given component has failed.

But I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that it would've been a total no-brainer for a good NSTB investigative team.

My preliminary evaluation of this crash indicates that the hang glider appears to have maintained its basic structural components until impact.

Meaning it couldn't have possibly been the issue you're about to home in on.

Sail damage is so extensive it may not be possible to determine if a sail failure during the flight may have contributed to the accident.

It didn't. Hang gliders don't have sail failures. And if this one had had everyone on site with his dog would've clearly seen it.

During a careful inspection of the hang glider, a serious issue has been discovered that may or may not have contributed to this crash.

It didn't.

The discovery of metal fatigue on the gliders landing gear/control bar combination has resulted in the need to post the following:

Important Airworthiness Notice.

The following notice applies to any Owner/Operators that are using Tandem Hang Gliders. This notice is not type specific but does apply to any gliders that have been fitted with any form of fixed wheels where the wheels are being used as the sole or primary landing system (castor type, slip on, or any other type that may be mounted to or over the stock or modified base tube).

Gliders fitting this description should not be flown until the following actions have been taken:

Any hardware associated with the mounting of wheels to the base tube should be removed and an inspection should be made to assess airworthiness of the base tube. Critical concerns include metal fatigue such as cracks in any of the components associated with this assembly. Particular attention should be paid to any areas of "sleeving" and or any areas where bolts or rivets may intersect such sleeving.

PLEASE NOTE: any suspicious damage should be completely evaluated. If over-sleeving is preventing proper inspection, sleeving must be removed to properly evaluate structural reliability.

Failure to inspect and correct any defect may result in catastrophic failure. Where practical, installation of an internal backup cable should be considered.

Fine. But that's not what took this glider out. If it had been the glider would've looked like:

08-02205c


14-02307c

And it didn't. And note that if it had been an issue along the lines Martin's focusing in on a sidewire stomp test would've caught it. And we know there was no fuckin' way that was done 'cause:

- only about half a dozen people on the planet actually do them - and they're all Kite Strings contributors

- it would've been reported that Bill had done it - as he always did (despite the extreme and ever present risk of grinding one's sidewires into sharp rocks)

It would be nice to know what actually happened but it really doesn't matter. This was a one-off and whatever it was would've been caught by a basic preflight. The only shit of interest was what happened at the end of the tow and what was and wasn't reported about it. And all that's extremely interesting and historically monumental.

For any further information on this notification or for any individuals that may wish to contribute information pertaining to the accident currently under investigation, please contact Martin Henry.

- And definitely not Aerial Adventures. We're really busy pretending they don't exist and nobody's ever heard of them before. This one's not a far cry from Jon Orders / Lenami Godinez-Avila - 2012/04/28. Same fuckin' neighborhood too.

- Currently under investigation? Still? OK, let's take a look at the next, what, all, the last we got three years plus five days later:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=865
Tandem pilot and passenger death

Martin Henry - 2005/09/09 17:05:50 UTC

What is known, the event occurred at or near the departure from the tug. The departure from tow was reported (by the tug operator) to be a violent separation. The tug (Moyes) suffered a failed vertical pylon on the upper portion of the tug end V bridal, just prior to the tug end weak link failure.

(Still haven't learned how to spell "bridle".)

What is known, the event occurred at or near the departure from the tug.

No. The issue was the cause of the departure from the tug and would've killed the glider just fine if it had occurred a half hour after having been dropped off in a thermal by the tug.

The departure from tow was reported (by the....

...conspicuously unidentified...

...tug operator)...

Wow. In the last report he was the tug PILOT. I guess a tug OPERATOR...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question

Jim Rooney - 2008/11/24 05:18:15 UTC

Well, I'm assuming there was some guff about the tug pilot's right of refusal?
Gee, didn't think we'd have to delve into "pilot in command"... I figured that one's pretty well understood in a flying community.

It's quite simple.
The tug is a certified aircraft... the glider is an unpowered ultralight vehicle. The tug pilot is the pilot in command. You are a passenger. You have the same rights and responsibilities as a skydiver.
It's a bitter pill I'm sure, but there you have it.

BTW, if you think I'm just spouting theory here, I've personally refused to tow a flight park owner over this very issue. I didn't want to clash, but I wasn't towing him. Yup, he wanted to tow with a doubled up weaklink. He eventually towed (behind me) with a single and sorry to disappoint any drama mongers, we're still friends. And lone gun crazy Rooney? Ten other tow pilots turned him down that day for the same reason.

...has a lot less responsibility for what happens on the back end than a Pilot In Command does for his passengers. (Bet you didn't score a lot of points with your Flight Park Mafia buddies with that one, Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney.)

...to be a violent separation.

Yeah, that's totally consistent with what you said...

At or near the release altitude the glider violently departed from tow in what appears to be severe left lock-out.

...before. Heavy tandem glider has some kind of structural failure, goes left sideways so fast none of the three "operators" at the two ends has a prayer of being able to blow a release, four strander Tad-O-Link at the back end holds, four strander Tad-O-Link at the front end holds while the breakaway tow mast doesn't and bends instead, four strander Tad-O-Link at the front end finally succeeds before the pressure of the towline reaches a level that compromises the handling of the glider, glider goes down like a fuckin' brick to an instantaneous double fatal impact leaving the glider so demolished that they were able to pack up and haul away all the fragments in a large duffle bag...

How come we never heard anything about...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3380
Lauren and Paul in Zapata

Lauren Tjaden - 2008/07/21 14:27:04 UTC

Zapata has delivered as promised, day after day with howling winds and good lift, where flights of over 100 miles (and much more) are possible.

Yesterday I chased Paul again. The tow rope weak link broke when Paul locked out and the weak link he got from Tad did not break. Russell said it was about the worst he has ever had his tail pulled around. Anyhow, I would advise against those weak links, though Tad's barrel releases do seem better able to release under stress. After Russell got a new rope and Paul recovered, he was late leaving and got trapped under some cirrus.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3391
More on Zapata and weak link

Paul Tjaden - 2008/07/22 04:32:22 UTC

The lockout Lauren mentioned was precipitated by my attempt to pull on more VG while on tow. I have done this before but this time the line wouldn't cleat properly and while I was fighting it, I got clobbered and rolled hard right in a split second. There was a very large noise and jerk as the relatively heavy weak link at the tug broke giving me the rope. I recovered quickly from the wingover and flew back to the field to drop the line and then relaunched after changing to a normal weak link. I have never had a lockout situation happen so quickly and dramatically and had no chance to release as I have always thought I could do. Had the tug's link not broken, things could have gotten very ugly very fast. I still don't like weak links breaking when they shouldn't, but the one I was using was way too strong.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question

Lauren Tjaden - 2008/11/20 22:50:53 UTC

Tad gave Paul a couple of HIS links while we were at the ECCs this year. Paul used them happily ( without any situation that might cause a problem) until one day at Zapata in rough air while he was attempting to adjust his VG. Paul locked out badly and the link didn't break. The double weak-link attached to the tug plane BROKE because the forces were so extreme. Russell quoted afterward that he'd never had his tail pulled around so violently. Luckily, Paul's glider was not stressed to the point of failure, and Paul was able to drop the rope and landed safely.
My only point here is that Tad's releases have not been extensively tested, and at least in my experience with them, are not safe.
I just don't want pilots to think that his weak links are entirely the answer. Tad is very smart, and is trying to address the problems he sees, so he should get kudos for that. But be very careful before you buy into the "great-new-weak-link-thing."

...how violently Anonymous Tug Operator got HIS tail pulled around by the insanely strong Tad-O-Link he had installed at his end? (Fuck you and the horses you rode in on - Paulen.)

I've just realized that that 2008/07/20 Tad-O-Link incident was THE catalyst for the switch from four to three strands up front. Huge national stink made about. And just look at the timing.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 08:24:31 UTC

Did I miss any?
Is it clear what I mean by "We"?
I didn't make the system up.
And I'm not so arrogant to think that my precious little ideas are going to magically revolutionise the industry.
There are far smarter people than me working this out.
I know, I've worked with them.
(Bobby's a fucking genius when it comes to this shit... for example.)

At least one of MY precious little ideas magically revolutionised the industry - motherfucker. And it's a pretty good bet that shortly after Pete Lehmann sanded his knee down to the bone on the runway at the same place and event three years later...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Davis Straub - 2011/08/28 15:26:28 UTC

Then again, Russell Brown had us double up behind him after six breaks in a row at Zapata. We couldn't figure out why we had so many breaks so quickly. Maybe just coincidence.

... Russell Brown (tug pilot, tug owner, Quest Air owner) quietly shifted back to the front end four strand Tad-O-Link. 'Cause we have had ZERO evidence over the course of the past eight years of a tandem or back end solo Tad-O-Linker pulling a towline off of a tug - including:

http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7447/26578855104_69f4705474_o.jpg


http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7077/27082298482_cda1aba01b_o.png

and:

http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/791/41148936032_e4097df8cd_o.jpg


Ditto for ropes given.

The tug (Moyes) suffered a failed vertical pylon on the upper portion of the tug end V bridal, just prior to the tug end weak link failure.

Was the issue with the tow mast deemed to be a failure because it folded over instead of:

- staying intact until its Tad-O-Link blew at a point that one of the aircraft was dead and the other was two thirds of the way there?

- cleanly snapping off at the same time its Tad-O-Link blew and well the pressure of the towline reached a level that compromised the handling of either of the aircraft involved as it was designed to?

- something else I've managed to miss somewhere?

[Tad Eareckson]

Rob Kells - 1985/09

Accident Report - Chris Bulger - 1985/07/17

On July 17 you and I lost one of the most gifted pilots who has ever been in the sport of hang gliding. Chris Bulger started flying at age thirteen, and had racked up thousands of hours in hang gliders, hundreds in trikes and many in airplanes. The guy was a pilot's pilot: one of the world's best, and as the saying goes, he could have flown a picnic table.

The following is a brief summary of what happened during the tow flight that cost Chris his life. It is presented here with the hope that all who aero tow will not repeat the mistakes that were made; we know that Chris would want it that way.

I was not at the airport that day so what follows are my conclusions after talking with many of the people who were there and personally inspecting the equipment that was being used, after the accident.

It was late in the afternoon, and the conditions were smooth. A number of successful tows had been made that day without mishap. Kenny Brown, Mitch McAleer, and Jeff Huey each had clean tows to approximately 2500'. While Chris was towing John Pendry they climbed to between 1,000 and 1,500 feet.

Chris made a fairly sharp right turn which caused John to lock out to the left. John was fighting to get back behind the tow vehicle. At one point he started to recover from the lock out and then felt a "bump" (hard pull on the line). The trike tumbled, the single strands of 505 leech line that went from John's shoulder straps to the three-ring broke one at a time, and presumably the shackle pulled out of the trike release at the same time the second strand of 505 gave way.

The trike tumbled a second time, and broke a leading edge, and then on the third tumble Chris was thrown out and fell approximately 500' to his death. Exactly what happened will never be known but studying the physical evidence suggests several observations:

THE WEAK LINK:

It was one continuous strand of 205 leech line looped through the ring on the three-ring circus release (glider pilot end) and the tow rope, and fastened together with a fisherman's knot. This material is rated at 125 lbs. per strand by the manufacturer. The strength of the weak link would figure to be 4 X 125 = 500 lbs. minus the loss in strength due to friction and the knot. I have done several load tests with this material and duplicate hardware and found that the "weak link" was good for at least 400 lbs. Chris was telling me at breakfast that morning that Thevenot, when towing at the factory, doesn't use a weak link. In any case the weak link that was being used did not break. It is recommended that you never use a weak link good for more than 150 to 200 lbs. I have been using for years a single loop of 205 with three overhand knots and two bowlines to tie the ends together. Its breaking strength is between 210 and 215 lbs. It has always broken when necessary, but sometimes a little more time was required than I was comfortable with.

If you're towing, USE A WEAK LINK and test its breaking strength on numerous samples. Be sure it is breaking consistently at UNDER 200 lbs.

http://airtribune.com/2019-big-spring-nationals/info/details__info
http://airtribune-production.s3.amazonaws.com/media/contest/files/2019/07/GTxd6mT4AIn8.pdf

2019 Big Spring Nationals - 2019/07

Weaklinks of 140 and 200 pounds will be available and provided by the organizers. Weaklinks provided by the organizers must be used by the competitors.

That's 280 and 400 pro toad towline, Rob. If you're a two hundred pound little girl glider the lightest Davis will permit you to fly is more than forty percent over the heaviest you want us flying.

And:
- that same little girl can go 400, 2 Gs, over twice what you want for a 350 pound glider.
- now we're doing tons of tandem thrill ride tows in all kinds of air.
- yet strangely we don't seem to be tumbling all that many tugs in smooth air conditions with Top Gun pilots at their helms. Go figure.

Wills Wing Support

Aerotow Release Attachment Points for Wills Wing Gliders
Rob Kells

Always use an appropriate weak link with a finished length of 1.5 inches or less. Longer weak links are more likely to get tangled on the tow ring upon release.

So I guess we now know why you were so happy to specify the LENGTH of an appropriate weak link but NOTHING about the STRENGTH. 'Cause when you wrote that everyone and his fuckin' dog was being forced to 130 pound Greenspot - regardless of his or her weight - which translates to 243 and 260 pound towline for two and one point respectively. And they were going off like popcorn.

And then we also started pulling tandems which ALWAYS used double loops of 130 which translates to 374 pounds towline and we weren't tumbling any tugs. Also note that Chris was pulling with a triked hang glider while all tandems are pulled by conventional fixed wing Dragonflies which have tails and are incapable of tumbling.

Then we had the 2013/08/02 Standard Aerotow Weak Link pro toad Zack Marzec fatal inconvenience whipstall and tumble and we suddenly stopped hearing about the dangers of Tad-O-Links. And then right after Pete Lehmann sanded his left knee down to the bone at Zapata on 2011/08/11 Tad-O-Links abruptly ceased being an issue for anyone of any weight in any circumstances. One of them held just fine until Jeff Bohl was in a fatal low level lockout at Quest on 2016/05/21 and there wasn't a single whisper about dumbing weak links down a pound and a half from anyone anywhere.

Joe Schmucker's glider is 400 pounds, you won't let him have even half a G, and that won't even get the cart rolled forward three feet. All about not letting the planes get into too much trouble. Absolutely NOTHING about strengths or weights of planes.

So good job going from actual numbers to "appropriate" so you didn't hafta admit being totally full o' shit in '85, stop being a friend to every pilot you met, help us start getting the sport back on the rails.

That was one of the major beauties of the Flight Park Mafia's standard precision fishing line. They could and did call the breaking strength anything they felt like - depending upon the circumstances.

And here's Davis:


http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident2.jpg
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident3.jpg


getting the safety of his towing operation increased by the 243 pound towline weak link you set him up with for flying one of your demo gliders.

If you're towing, USE A WEAK LINK and test its breaking strength on numerous samples.

Sure Rob, everybody's gonna do that.

Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06

We could get into details of lab testing weak links and bridles, but this article is already getting long. That would be a good topic for an article in the future. Besides, with our backgrounds in formal research, you and I both know that lab tests may produce results with good internal validity, but are often weak in regard to external validity--meaning lab conditions cannot completely include all the factors and variability that exists in the big, real world.

And they're also gonna listen to the five individuals who over the course of the last thirty years have actually done that.

And perish the thought that Wills Wing could ever be troubled to run tests and publish results cause your gliders aren't designed to be motorized, tethered, or towed. And now after all these decades of needless incompetency based carnage you're having a hard time designing your gliders to be sold.

You died 2008/08/09. And my last flight was two months and three days later. And my career got ended for going to war against the kind of rot you wrote up in response to that fringe activity fatal at Chelan. And you had a couple decades to retract, apologize for, revise your statements and advisory on it and you never did.

On July 17 you and I lost one of the most gifted pilots who has ever been in the sport of hang gliding. Chris Bulger started flying at age thirteen, and had racked up thousands of hours in hang gliders, hundreds in trikes and many in airplanes. The guy was a pilot's pilot: one of the world's best, and as the saying goes, he could have flown a picnic table.

No. He couldn't pull a simple no-brainer dead air evening tow with a world class comp pilot staying in perfect position without tumbling and getting ejected from his tug. He didn't die as a pilot. He died as a skydiver who'd left his parachute in the trailer. And that's the only one that really counted and that's what he's most remembered for and should be.

And in untold hundreds of thousands of ATs since - as many as possible in peak thermal conditions - nobody's ever come within a mile of a rerun. And his primary contribution to the sport was your ultra safe AT weak link which caused nothing but decades of failed tows, runway carnage, squandered prime soaring opportunities, subjugation of the sport to opportunistic powered ultralight flying snake oil salesmen. We were reduced to passengers whose sole purpose in life was to fund their hobby.

And all that damage is irreversible.

Full Chris Bulger report and extensive dissection at:
http://www.kitestrings.org/viewtopic.php?p=10756#p10756

[Tad Eareckson]

A few more scraps on the Aerial Adventures 2002/08/17...

http://ozreport.com/6.170
Accident at Aerial Adventures

Davis Straub - - 2002/08/26

http://www.aerialadventures.com

There was a fatal accident at Aerial Adventures in Fort Langley, B.C. on Saturday, August 17th. It may have been a tandem accident. No details are being released and there is an ongoing inquest and investigation.

And, of course, cover-up.

http://ozreport.com/6.171
The Aerial Adventures Accident

Martin Henry HPAC, Accident Investigator - 2002/08/27

Just a note to confirm that indeed there has been an accident at Aerial Adventures on August 17th. The accident involved one of the schools Tandems (Double Vision), during an instructional flight with a resulting two fatalities (The loss of lives included the instructor, Bill Woloshnyiuk, and his student, Victor Cox).

The exact cause of the accident is not known. What is known is the fact that an "event" occurred at or near the intended release altitude of 1000 ft. The glider departed from tow by breaking the tugs end of the tow line. From this altitude the glider entered an extreme spiral decent with little or no evidence of recovery. A parachute was deployed but apparently at too low of an altitude to have been successful.

At this point in time, the investigation is continuing, with all aspects of the tow being evaluated.

For any further information on this accident please contact me.

Just a note to confirm that indeed there has been an accident...

Accident? If it were it'll be a first for the sport.

...at Aerial Adventures...

The soon to be late Aerial Adventures.

...on August 17th. The accident involved one of the schools Tandems (Double Vision), during an instructional flight with a resulting two fatalities (The loss of lives included the instructor, Bill Woloshnyiuk, and his student, Victor Cox).

- Included? So there were more lives lost? Took out a few people on the ground?
- You spelled Bill's name wrong - idiot. But that's OK, it's consistent with the quality and care you've put in on everything else on this one.

The exact cause of the accident is not known.

Implying that you've got a pretty good idea of the cause of the "accident" - just haven't yet gotten a few minor details sorted out.

What is known is the fact that an "event" occurred...

Hear that, victims' families and friends? It was an "event". And it just "occurred". Obviously there was nobody at Aerial Adventures to blame for anything.

...at or near the intended release altitude of 1000 ft. The glider departed from tow by breaking the tugs end of the tow line.

Isn't there supposed to be a weak link up there somewhere? Actually... Isn't there a regulation REQUIRING there to be a weak link on the back end that blows well before the one on the front end?

This may be no big fuckin' deal with respect to the outcome of this one but already we're seeing clear evidence of major negligence and incompetence. And that's majorly relevant to this outcome.

From this altitude the glider entered an extreme spiral decent...

Fuckin' semiliterate HPAC Accident Investigator. The best these douchebags have to offer. They don't even have anybody literate and competent enough to proofread this asshole before he goes full blown public.

...with little or no evidence of recovery.

No shit.

A parachute was deployed but apparently at too low of an altitude to have been successful.

Let's work on this one a little more.

http://ozreport.com/6.178
Update on Tandem Accident

Martin Henry - 2002/09/04

Inspection of both the parachute and the deployment system indicates that a pilot (unknown) had successfully deployed the parachute...

See? Now they've got it successfully deployed. Whew! Pretty damn close though!

At this point in time, the investigation is continuing, with all aspects of the tow being evaluated.

With careful consideration regarding liability issues for Aerial Adventures and the HPAC assholes who qualified them for running this instructional and tandem thrill ride AT operation.

For any further information on this accident please contact me.

- So you can maybe get the REAL story on this one.
- Why contact you and not the conspicuously unidentified tug driver or any of the witnesses to this one?

http://ozreport.com/6.180
Aerial Adventures closes

Mark Tulloch - 2002/09/06

http://www.aerialadventures.com

Towing, storage, tandems and instruction will not be available through me after October 31.

While this decision to close Aerial Adventures was not made because of the recent accident, it did help me to recognize that my 24/7 dedication (addiction) to this business has kept me from many other important things like spending time with my family and friends and from other tasks, hobbies and projects. I will continue to assist local pilots to inspect and repair equipment and will continue to have sewing services available and some other services as well.

Aerial Adventures is open again for solo towing but not for introductory tandems at this time. Through September we will maintain the regular schedule of Thursday through Sunday from 10 am. In October we will continue as planned to fly on weekends only through the month.

On September 21 and 22 we will host the 5th Anniversary Fly-In. This will be a benefit for the families of Bill and Victor. There will be no entry fee but we will have a donation pot for the Woloshyniuk Education Fund and the Cox Family Fund. We will have the usual fun days of flying with free camping on site, a pot luck barbeque on Saturday night, bonfire and story telling contests.

On October 12 and 13th (with the next weekend as a rain back-up) we will have the Aerial Adventures It's Been Fun Fly-In.

I want to thank everyone for their support and kindness shown not only to me but to the families of Bill and Victor. It has been a difficult and emotional time and we all appreciated your notes, emails and calls.

Towing, storage, tandems and instruction will not be available through me after October 31.

And kills off the operation / valuable hang gliding resource - like so many of these do.

While this decision to close Aerial Adventures was not made because of the recent accident...

Lemme guess? Wanted to spend more time with your family?

...it did help me to recognize that my 24/7 dedication (addiction) to this business has kept me from many other important things like spending time with my family and friends...

Big surprise.

...and from other tasks, hobbies and projects. I will continue to assist local pilots...

With the same care and professionalism you assisted Bill and Victor.

...to inspect and repair equipment...

Might've been a good idea to have done that with respect to the tandem ride at some point prior to the afternoon of 2002/08/17.

...and will continue to have sewing services available and some other services as well.

Aerial Adventures is open again for solo towing...

Meaning you know that the problem was a preflight and maintenance issue with the tandem ride.

...but not for introductory tandems...

Also no tandem training flights 'cause your instructor's dead.

...at this time.

Oh. So you WILL be resuming your introductory tandems at some point prior to the end of next month? Hope you'll be able to accommodate some reasonable percentage of all the folk phoning in for reservations you have now as a result of all the publicity you got right after this one.

Through September we will maintain the regular schedule of Thursday through Sunday from 10 am. In October we will continue as planned to fly on weekends only through the month.

On September 21 and 22 we will host the 5th...

...and last...

...Anniversary Fly-In. This will be a benefit for the families of Bill and Victor. There will be no entry fee but we will have a donation pot for the Woloshyniuk Education Fund and the Cox Family Fund. We will have the usual fun days of flying with free camping on site, a pot luck barbeque on Saturday night, bonfire and story telling contests.

Sounds like a real blast.

On October 12 and 13th (with the next weekend as a rain back-up) we will have the Aerial Adventures It's Been Fun Fly-In.

It abruptly stopped being fun for everyone in that neck of the woods on 2002/08/17.

I want to thank everyone for their support and kindness shown not only to me but to the families of Bill and Victor. It has been a difficult and emotional time and we all appreciated your notes, emails and calls.

You know that this one could've been easily prevented if that glider had just been properly checked ONCE in the couple weeks leading up to this one. And if you didn't know exactly what happened, that this was as big a fuckin' mystery as Martin and HPAC are making it out to have been you won't be resuming flying solos. Hell, nobody should be flying hang gliders anywhere.

And you have to live with this one for the rest of your life. But thanks for all the great data on the Dragonfly and the way The Industry operates it anyway. Too bad nobody started thinking about the parachute two or three seconds sooner. (Right...

http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5788/23461251751_e98b9c7500_o.png


...Kelly?) Could and should've had it for nuthin'.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question

Jim Rooney - 2008/11/24 20:34:53 UTC

Something else occurred to me...
There seems to be the impression that I think that because I fly so much, that I "can handle more". In fact, you have the impression that I'm so comfortable with this notion, that hell, I'll take someone else along.

Not at all.
I can handle less tandem. I have less safety devices tandem... in addition to a lesser weaklink setup (read stronger glider link) the tandem parachute is slower to deploy (must be used higher) and I have more weight to throw around (solo gliders are more easily maneuvered). I also have a passenger, and who knows if they're going to start grabbing sh*t? The deck is stacked higher against me tandem.

What I have is the understanding that I can't fly in the same crap that I could solo.... because my margins are lower. I have a familiarity that allows me to know when to STOP FLYING... which is always WAY sooner than I would solo. That's what flying every day with the same people and equipment does for me.

Something else occurred to me...

Totally amazing all the something elses that keep occurring to you, often something elses that:
- have:
-- never before or since occurred to anyone else
-- no foundations in reality
- are flatly contradicted by:
-- fundamental aeronautical theory
-- the:
--- historical record
--- previous something elses that have occurred to you
--- relevant FAA regs and u$hPa SOPs
--- laws of Newtonian physics

There seems to be the impression that I think...

Not so much anymore. And then only by...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26379
Landings

Pat Halfhill - 2019/07/03 19:18:03 UTC

I've been landing poorly lately and started to read this thread from the beginning. It makes me miss Jim Rooney. A great pilot and teacher

...the halfwitted dregs of your intellectual and moral caliber.

...that because I fly so much, that I...

...am under the delusion that I'm an intellectually superior divine being.

..."can handle more".

The people that actually fly a lot and don't have their heads up their asses know that after an hour or two of airtime they've maxed out the control they're able to exercise by way of reflexes and muscle and can't afford to squander any by doing stupid shit like:
- going up with easily reachable releases and Infallible Weak Links
- rotating upright to the control tubes to practice executing perfectly timed flares in anything but glassy smooth conditions
- routinely using narrow dry riverbeds with large rocks strewn all over the place as landing zones

In fact, you have the impression...

Thank you so very much for telling us what kind of impressions we all have.

...that I'm so comfortable with this notion, that hell, I'll take someone else along.

- In fact the first individual in the history of aerotowing who's been able to achieve that level of comfort with that notion. Undoubtedly the last as well.

- We've seen your record in both hang and para gliding in taking someone elses along.

08-19
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5277/30076449505_1f6ed2f804_o.png


Both of them made national news in the impact country and, despite the fact that you were totally blameless in both of them, nobody in The Industry was stupid enough to employ someone with your record to fly tandem thrill rides for anyone ever again. And you were never gonna fly anything but a tug solo 'cause you'd find yourself frequently getting your butt kicked by all manner of clueless muppets and ranting convicted pedophiles.

Not at all.

Oh do tell. I'm sure the Flight Park Mafia will be totally thrilled to hear you going public about how much more lethally compromised tandem thrill rides are than solo flights - 'specially two and three quarters years after your tandem unhooked launch and dive into the powerlines at Coronet Peak (2006/02/21).

I can handle less tandem.

- Talked me out of it right there.

- Was this made clear to the FAA before they granted us the Tandem Exemption? And I'm guessing this little tidbit is on all the waiver forms that all the "students" sign before going up with you. "I understand that my Instructor and Pilot In Command will be incapable of maintaining safe control of this ultralight aircraft to the extent specified in its HGMA certification standards. I also understand that my eleven year old kid can instantly become dogmeat on a takeoff or landing in the event of an ill-timed puff on one wing or the other."

- Don't you have a student right there with you available to effect control under your direction such that you have proportionally much MORE muscle per square foot to keep things under much BETTER control? I can think of many times flying solo I'd have appreciated all the help I could've gotten. Or are all of your tandem students too incompetent at all stages of instruction to be of any possible positive use? (And thanks TONS for just confirming that that IS, in fact, the case by not even allowing for the possibility of that situation.)

- As a matter of fact... The tandem student on this one:

http://i.imgur.com/tt379.jpg


was able to handle the hell out of it. He OVERcontrolled into what would've been a lockout if the tow hadn't been terminated by the front end. So please spare us any more shit you have about your limitations on getting tandems to respond to your control inputs. You've got control authority coming outta your ass on those 'cause - now that I've started thinking about it - it's like flying solo with 150 to 200 or more pounds of ballast. And that's the stuff we use in violent thermalling conditions to help keep the glider going and turning towards where we want it to.

- Me? When I was teaching on the dunes in the early Eighties I had tons of students - who were all Pilots In Command from Day One, Flight One on - executing foot launches, pitch and roll control, landings just as competently as I could've in the tasks under the given conditions. But my goal was always to get them up to my level - not better 'cause in that environment there's a max level of performance that can't be exceeded and I was soon pretty much at it - as quickly, efficiently, safely as possible.

That was/is the primary mission of Kite Strings - to get Zack and any and every one else possible up to full speed on all the issues and make myself redundant. And we've had a fair bit of success along those lines. And I've been brought up to speed on lotsa shit I didn't have right by other participants.

- Can anybody find a quote from Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney indicating pride in something other than himself? Anything about a single student taking to this game like a fish to water? A quote from an ace comp pilot about how much he owes to Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney for his rapid early advances in his skill and competency?

I have less safety devices tandem...

- The word is FEWER - asshole.

- No...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3107
I have a tandem rating!!!

Lauren Tjaden - 2008/03/23 22:20:15 UTC

When Jim got me locked out to the right, I couldn't keep the pitch of the glider with one hand for more than a second (the pressure was a zillion pounds, more or less), but the F'ing release slid around when I tried to hit it. The barrel release wouldn't work because we had too much pressure on it.

Anyhow, the tandem can indeed perform big wingovers, as I demonstrated when I finally got separated from the tug.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up

Jim Rooney - 2009/11/02 18:58:13 UTC

Oh it happens.
I have, all the guys I work with have.
(Our average is 1 in 1,000 tows)

Oh yeah... an other fun fact for ya... ya know when it's far more likely to happen? During a lockout. When we're doing lockout training, the odds go from 1 in 1,000 to over 50/50.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21033
barrels release without any tension except weight of rope..

Bart Weghorst - 2011/02/25 19:06:26 UTC

But I've had it once where the pin had bent inside the barrel from excessive tow force. My weaklink was still intact. The tug pilot's weaklink broke so I had the rope. I had to use two hands to get the pin out of the barrel.
No stress because I was high.

...shit. And there's NO POSSIBLE WAY any of those issues could POSSIBLY be improved upon.

- Using a two point bridle with a rather precisely determined trim point on the keel to hold the nose down and maintain the pilot in the proper position over the control bar doesn't count as a safety device?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9230
Departing the launch cart

Jim Rooney - 2007/08/24 12:20:06 UTC

In three point towing, 1/2 the energy is transmitted to the glider, 1/2 to you. In pro towing, you're it.
...
Bad habit #1, not flying the glider... just letting the tug drag you around by the nose, combines with the fact that pro towing REQUIRES the pilot to do something (not let that bar move). So instead of holding the bar where it is, bad habit pilot just lets the tug pull him. This pulls him through the control frame with the same effect as the pilot pulling in... a LOT.

I've seen gliders go negative while still on the cart this way.
The results are never pretty.

Take Paul Tjaden up with you as your passenger (which is what he was entirely by behind Russell at Zapata on 2008/07/20 - so he's used to and appears to prefer things that way) pro toad and let me know how things work out for y'all. Sorry - ya'll.

That's one safety device you shitheads can't under any circumstances get away with flushing down the toilet before you start.

- Ya know the general rule out in the real world is that the more passengers you take on the HIGHER the level of mandatory safety standards. How come it's just in hang gliding that you get to double the number of passengers on the plane and cut the safety standards in half? And here I was thinking that the case made to the FAA for the Tandem Exemption was to INcrease training safety. But go ahead... Keep up the really great advertising you're doing for the tandem thrill ride industry. I'm sure they all really appreciate all the ammunition you're handing out to plaintiffs' attorneys.

...in addition to a lesser weaklink setup (read stronger glider link)...

- And here I was thinking that the only weak link that counts in your moronic...

Towing Aloft - 1998/01

I witnessed a tug pilot descend low over trees. His towline hit the trees and caught. His weak link broke but the bridle whipped around the towline and held it fast. The pilot was saved by the fact that the towline broke!

...blatantly and massively illegal tandem configuration was...

Jim Rooney - 2008/11/20 22:25:38 UTC

Something to bear in mind... the tug's weaklink is three strand.
For clarity... A normal single loop weaklink would be considered two. A tandem double loop is considered four.
In the tandem setup, the "weaklink" in the system is at the tug end, not the glider.

Ya'll seem to be missing this.
Once you go beyond three strand... you're not using a weaklink. If the weaklink goes, you're getting the rope.
Paul found this out the hard way in Texas.

Theory's wonderful and all, but reality is not forgiving.
Ask yourself... are you willing to bet your life on your theory?
Dress accordingly.

...the front ender - which, by moronic Flight Park Mafia arithmetic, is proportionally way the hell SAFER than our standard one-size-fits-all solo muppet jobs. Two hours shy of two days ago before you went public under your non-Deepfloat actual identity with this ultra embarrassing previously Industry classified material.

Pity you don't have a tiny fraction of the brain capacity necessary to maintain some semblance of consistency in your lies, misrepresentations, obfuscations.

- Notice that he says "glider link". NOBODY says "GLIDER LINK". He realizes that he's painted himself into a corner by shooting his mouth off about the Dragonfly's new and hitherto classified three strand tow mast breakaway protector...

Jim Rooney - 2008/11/20 22:25:38 UTC

In the tandem setup, the "weaklink" in the system is at the tug end, not the glider.

Ya'll seem to be missing this.
Once you go beyond three strand... you're not using a weaklink. If the weaklink goes, you're getting the rope.

...and now he's desperately trying to backpedal - hoping when there is no hope that we'll will continue to seem to be missing this. Probably not so much that his loyal Capitol wire stupid pigfuckers will continue to seem to be missing this but that T** at K*** S****** will.

And WE KNOW that the Flight Park Mafia brass is NOT HAPPY with this bullshit. 'Cause THEY KNOW that a bit over four years earlier the FAA pulled hang gliders in under sailplane AT regs and well under four years from now (2012/06) Dr. Trisa Tilletti is gonna hafta put fourteen pages of total crap into the magazine advertising to the FAA what a great job the Flight Park Mafia has been doing these past eight years rigidly adhering to these regs. And a three strander up in front of a four strander tandem doesn't fit into the game plan.

And that's what that article was entirely about - I just now fully realize. Go back...

http://www.kitestrings.org/viewtopic.php?p=2230#p2230

...and give it skim - if you have the stomach for it. Try to find something about the three strand tug link that went into effect immediately after the 2008/07/20 Russell Brown / Paul Tjaden / Tad-O-Link incident and was very quietly phased out after the 2013/02/02 Zack Marzec pro toad inconvenience fatality.

- You have a bigger heavier glider - douchebag. And according to clearly stated Flight Park Mafia arithmetic...

http://www.questairforce.com/aero.html
Aerotow FAQ

Quest Air Hang Gliding - 1998/02

Weak Link

The strength of the weak link is crucial to a safe tow. It should be weak enough so that it will break before the pressure of the towline reaches a level that compromises the handling of the glider but strong enough so that it doesn't break every time you fly into a bit of rough air. A good rule of thumb for the optimum strength is one G, or in other words, equal to the total wing load of the glider. Most flight parks use 130 lb. braided Dacron line, so that one loop (which is the equivalent to two strands) is about 260 lb. strong - about the average wing load of a single pilot on a typical glider. For tandems, either two loops (four strands) of the same line or one loop of a stronger line is usually used to compensate for nearly twice the wing loading.

...it's proportionally THE SAME. And it's weak enough so that it will break before the pressure of the towline reaches a level that compromises the handling of the glider. So there's no fuckin' way you'll still be on tow with the pressure of the towline reaching a level that compromises the handling of the glider. There's virtually no possibility that Bobby Bailey wrote this himself because the decades of data we have on him strongly point to him being totally illiterate but it's a no-brainer that if he didn't dictate to one of the Quest founders capable of writing then it was posted with his full approval - and complicity.

- So you're worried about having a lesser weaklink setup? So what's stopping you from adjusting it to make it a greater weaklink setup? Nobody's EVER been turned away from the head of a launch line for electing to use a focal point of his safe towing system even SAFER than the Industry Standard.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

John Claytor - 2007/05/25 12:03:13 UTC

I break a weak link about once every two years. a little frayed is better in my way of thinking because I like my weak links weak.

Prior to the recently discovered 140 comp minimum anyway. Ask your colleagues to save their discards for you. Use a small rock from the parking lot to fray them up to an optimal safety setting.

Use the Flight Park Mafia solo trail and error method for the tandem. Dial them down until they coincidentally break six times in a row in light morning conditions and somebody sands a knee down to the bone on the runway then double them. Notice that we haven't had one single incident related to or complaint from either end of the rope regarding solo weak link strength in the eight plus years since? Beat that for the perfection of the focal point of a safe towing system.

- Why should the weak link even be the slightest consideration?

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 13:47:23 UTC

Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.

You can't dump yourself on the glider with the same speed, reliability, safety that you can dump another glider from 250 feet in front while you're functioning as Pilot In Command and monitoring whatever's going on back there by watching it in a vibrating convex mirror? That wouldn't be 'cause on the tug you can blow the release...

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7509/15659143120_a9aae8f7bd_o.jpg


...instantly at will without surrendering a dust particle's worth of control while on the glider...

7-14522
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5517/14036301121_17849a6a04_o.png


...you've gotta make an easy reach to the lever with one hand while maintaining control of the already control compromised glider with the other, would it?

British Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association Technical Manual - 2003/04

On tow the Pilot in Command must have his hand actually on the release at all times. 'Near' the release is not close enough! When you have two hands completely full of locked-out glider, taking one off to go looking for the release guarantees that your situation is going to get worse before it gets better.

(Got the motherfucker. He's just confirmed that the glider's "release system" is such total crap relative to what's on the front end that he's heavily reliant on the three strand front end weak link breaking before he can get into too much trouble.)

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/05 01:32:20 UTC

Btw, it's nothing to do with you "counting" on the weaklink breaking... Its about me not trusting you to hit the release.
If it were only about what you want, then you could use what you like.
You want the strongest weaklink you can have.
I want you to have the weakest one practical.. I don't care how much it inconveniences you.
I don't trust you as a rule. You Trust you , but I don't and shouldn't.

Yeah? Well you've just made it pretty fucking obvious that you also don't trust yourself as a rule to hit the release. And if you can't trust yourself to hit the release on the back end than how can we trust you to...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 13:47:23 UTC

Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.

...fix whatever's going on back there by giving us the rope? You've made it fucking obvious that we're not the least bit disadvantaged by our Industry Standard easily reachable releases so what's YOUR problem back there?

There's no fucking way you're not LYING (big surprise) so why should ANYONE ever trust you on ANYTHING - EVER AGAIN?

- So what happened to:

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up

Ryan Voight - 2009/11/03 05:24:31 UTC

It works best in a lockout situation... if you're banked away from the tug and have the bar back by your belly button... let it out. Glider will pitch up, break weaklink, and you fly away.

During a "normal" tow you could always turn away from the tug and push out to break the weaklink... but why would you?

Have you never pondered what you would do in a situation where you CAN'T LET GO to release? I'd purposefully break the weaklink, as described above. Instant hands free release

Why would that not work equally brilliantly on a tandem?

Jim Rooney - 2009/11/03 06:16:56 UTC

God I love the ignore list

Tad loves to have things both ways.
First weaklinks are too weak, so we MUST use stronger ones. Not doing so is reckless and dangerous.
Then they're too strong.

I have no time for such circular logic.
I had it with that crap years ago.

As for being in a situation where you can't or don't want to let go, Ryan's got the right idea. They're called "weak" links for a reason. Overload that puppy and you bet your ass it's going to break.

You can tell me till you're blue in the face about situations where it theoretically won't let go or you can drone on and on about how "weaklinks only protect the glider" (which is BS btw)... and I can tell ya... I could give a crap, cuz just pitch out abruptly and that little piece of string doesn't have a chance in hell. Take your theory and shove it... I'm saving my a$$.

Why is that technique not mandatory tandem training for an AT signoff? Instead we've got:

The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc. - 2016/10/22
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
02. Pilot Proficiency System
11. Hang Gliding Special Skill Endorsements
-A. Special Skills attainable by Novice
05. Aerotow

-f. The candidate must also demonstrate the ability to properly react to a weak link/tow rope break simulation with a tandem rated pilot, initiated by the tandem pilot at altitude, but at a lower than normal release altitude. Such demonstrations should be made in smooth air.

Just how much good is THAT gonna do anyone in a violent thermal blast induced low level lockout emergency situation? They don't even want you banked a little for that drill. We all agree that Ryan and you have the right idea... So how much good is it if we don't have it in the SOPs as mandatory training and skill demonstration? Hell, we don't even have a single tandem instructor from any corner of the planet implementing that excellent technique on his own initiative. Could've EASILY gotten Jeff Bohl out of his fatal sticky lockout situation at Quest on 2016/05/21. And nobody (conspicuously including Ryan Instant-Hands-Free-Release Voight and Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney) has even mentioned it retrospectively.

...the tandem parachute is slower to deploy (must be used higher)...

- Yeah, that's a real biggie. We solo muppets are always thinking, "Boy am I glad I'm launching with a faster opening parachute than those poor dumb tandem bastards are. Ya just never know when ya might need that extra edge." And we've had so many solo lives saved by chutes that popped open ten feet prior to impact and so many double fatals from the tandems whose chutes were two seconds from full inflation when they slammed in.

I submit that there has NEVER ONCE in the entire world history of hang glider aerotowing a lockout incident involving either a solo or tandem glider in which there was any thought of deploying a parachute and/or that a hand deployment would've made any positive difference. Maybe a ballistic but they've always had issues that outweighed their advantages in anything other than aero and nobody - especially AT people - uses them.

- So then if this is such a big fuckin' deal then how come you don't use ballistics - like you have...



...on the tug?

http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5788/23461251751_e98b9c7500_o.png

...and I have more weight to throw around...

- And here I was thinking that there was nothing in life you enjoyed MORE...

Jim Rooney - 2008/11/24 05:18:15 UTC

Well, I'm assuming there was some guff about the tug pilot's right of refusal?
Gee, didn't think we'd have to delve into "pilot in command"... I figured that one's pretty well understood in a flying community.

It's quite simple.
The tug is a certified aircraft... the glider is an unpowered ultralight vehicle. The tug pilot is the pilot in command. You are a passenger. You have the same rights and responsibilities as a skydiver.
It's a bitter pill I'm sure, but there you have it.

BTW, if you think I'm just spouting theory here, I've personally refused to tow a flight park owner over this very issue. I didn't want to clash, but I wasn't towing him. Yup, he wanted to tow with a doubled up weaklink. He eventually towed (behind me) with a single and sorry to disappoint any drama mongers, we're still friends. And lone gun crazy Rooney? Ten other tow pilots turned him down that day for the same reason.

...than throwing your weight around. Like you are now getting all your pet Capitol Club douchebags to kiss your ass and suck your dick (which is pretty much all any of them were ever any good for anyway).

- And as we've just realized (see above) that extra weight you have to throw around is actually a major control advantage.

...(solo gliders are more easily maneuvered).

Even the topless competition bladewings flying pro toad with the bars stuffed to their knees...

03-02421
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7200/14097626583_03972773c6_o.png


...two seconds off the carts?

Bull fucking shit. ALL tandem rides are built for max handling response at the expense of mediocre performance. And somewhere late in my Ridgely career Sunny told me that they'd never once had a tandem lockout. And that tells us that never once did a tandem weak link at either end of the rope do a goddam thing to increase the safety of their tandem towing operation. We just got the usual stupid bullshit like:

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6326
An OK Day at Ridgely

Matthew Graham - 2014/06/09 01:51:11 UTC

I got on the flight line at a little after 1pm behind Sammi. She had a sledder. Then the tandem glider called rank and went ahead of me. The tandem broke a weak link and it took a while to sort out a new weak link. I finally towed around 1:30 and also broke a link at 450'. Back to the end of the line. Actually, my wife Karen let my cut in front of her. Bertrand and Sammi towed again. Each having sledder. The cirrus had moved in and things did not look good. Again I arrived at the front of the line only to have the tandem call dibs. And then the tug needed gas. I thought I would never get into the air...

I've had two VIOLENT lockouts - on my HPAT 158 (which wasn't noted for its easy handling relative to later comp glider evolution) - at Ridgely. Both were behind Sunny and precipitated by thermals which blasted up between the two of us. The first was 2001/04/26 at 1100 feet, the second was 2005/09/10 at 2400 feet. And nobody EVER ONCE over the course of my AT career - which ran 1986/08/01 through 2008/10/12 - questioned my skill, competency, performance in that flavor of flying. Those two lockouts happened like:

Bill Bryden - 2000/02

Dennis Pagen informed me several years ago about an aerotow lockout that he experienced. One moment he was correcting a bit of alignment with the tug and the next moment he was nearly upside down. He was stunned at the rapidity. I have heard similar stories from two other aerotow pilots.

Somebody find me ONE account of a tandem that was being flown halfway competently at both ends being locked out the way solos are reasonably commonly.

Tandems DON'T LOCK OUT. Built for low performance and ultra light handling and they carry tons of ballast. Has shit to do with driver experience, skill, superiority - the way they've had so much fun pretending it does.

I also have a passenger...

And here I was thinking that it was illegal to take PASSENGERS up for hire under the terms of the FAA Tandem Exemption. I thought it was only legal to take STUDENTS up for safer instruction. But now that I really think about it... The Pilot In Command is up front on the tug - as you were so kind as to point out to us stupid muppets a bit over fifteen hours ago. I figure now that that one's pretty well understood in a flying community. So you've got two illegals back there - one passenger telling another passenger how to be a proper passenger.

....and who knows if they're going to start grabbing sh*t?

- Holy shit! I never thought of that! It must be happening all the time!

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but THIS:

http://i.imgur.com/tt379.jpg


is the closest we can come. And...

http://www.kitestrings.org/post1928.html#p1928

...that was NOT an example of some passenger who started grabbing sh*t. That was a legitimate STUDENT who'd been cleared by his INSTRUCTOR both to fly in the under position and control the flight from launch on. So rack that one up to "Pete". Hell, they're both passengers back there so rack it up to the conspicuously unidentified Pilot In Command who could've fixed whatever was going on back there by giving his passengers the rope and DIDN'T in time. Also notice the conspicuous absence of mention of the focal point of their safe towing system which was supposed to keep them from getting into too much trouble and didn't. Also note that Lockout Mountain Flight Park tandems...

1-2602
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5549/13995699911_14ebe6da3f_o.png


...don't USE any weak links on the back end. Fuck FAA towing safety regs.

- If "who knows if they're going to start grabbing sh*t?" were a LEGITIMATE concern then nobody would have any fuckin' business running tandem rides. The fact is that's a totally fake concern than never actually happens.

The deck is stacked higher against me tandem.

And thus it's also stacked higher against your unadvised passenger. And yet...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 10:40:24 UTC

Is a weaklink going to save your ass? Who knows? But it's nice to stack the deck in your favour.

...while you have the option of stacking the deck in the favour of you and your student you don't even entertain the notion of making the slightest move in that direction. Sounds like what you're actually doing is trading off safety for convenience.

If there's still any...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 21:40:25 UTC

Sure "there's always room for improvement", but you have to realize the depth of experience you're dealing with here.

...room for improvement then how is it possible to achieve any without the trail and error process that's been shut down for decades by the depth of experience we're dealing with here?

What I have is the understanding that I can't fly in the same crap that I could solo because my margins are lower.

RAISE THEM. For the love of JESUS! RAISE THEM!!!

Towing Aloft - 1998/01

A weak link is the focal point of a safe towing system.

A weak link is a very simple device--typically a loop of line--that is intended to break in the event towline tensions exceed a safe or desired threshold.

A weak link is required that will not break needlessly in response to moderate thermals, or pilot inputs, yet will break at a low enough point to avoid disaster or excessive pilot panic.

"It is infinitely better to have a weak link break too soon rather than too late."
-- Towing Proverb

A weak link is a fuse that protects the equipment--your body!--on an overloaded circuit.

Always use a weak link when towing--WEAK LINKS SAVE LIVES.

Of course, your weak link should break before the lockout becomes too severe, but that assumes a properly applied weak link.

What could possibly be simpler, more straightforward and obvious? It's INFINITELY better to have a weak link break too soon rather than too late. That's a fucking TOWING PROVERB. Are you gonna start messing with THE BIBLE with your passenger's life and your life and SOUL on the line when the alternative is more SAFETY at the cost of a bit of inconvenience now and then?

I have a familiarity that allows me to know when to STOP FLYING...

- Well what about all those other Ridgely douchebags who fly your tug on your days off? They obviously don't have the familiarity you have that allows THEM to know when to stop flying.

- And sometimes when your familiarity allows you to know when to STOP FLYING somebody else scrapes what's left of you back off the mountainside and...

08-19
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5277/30076449505_1f6ed2f804_o.png


...takes you flying again anyway. That's happened twice at the same launch ferchrisake.

- Gee, how I wish I had a familiarity that allowed me to know when to STOP FLYING. As it is I waste tons of time and effort flying the glider until after it's back on the ground and rolled to a stop. And sometimes when it's windy broken down and back in the bag.

- So do you announce to your passengers that you've STOPPED FLYING? Or do you just let them figure that out for themselves as the glider's spiraling down into the swamp?

- Pity you didn't have enough of a familiarity to allow you to know when tell John Claytor when to stop flying pro toad in that extreme crosswind on that improvised runway at the ECC with that Rooney Link that didn't succeed when it was supposed to on 2014/06/02 and got his career permanently ended. So why not? Wasn't your ride and thus wasn't your problem?

- Bullshit.

-- When towing isn't doable it gets shut down for everybody - and nobody would want to anyway.

-- Down low where it matters you won't be able to "stop flying" using the easily reachable crap you use as an excuse for towing equipment and the tugs NEVER fix whatever's going on back there by giving you the rope.

-- After you get through the kill zone you'll know when to stop flying exactly the same way Paul Tjaden did. And you won't need to do anything.

NOBODY ever aborts a tow because it's time to stop flying. 'Specially not a tow for which some tandem thrill rider has just forked over a couple hundred bucks.

...which is always WAY sooner than I would solo.

- That's not the impression we muppets get from reading the mainstream media.

- Yeah, if ya wanna go up for your tandem instructional flight you'll hafta find one of Ridgely's less conscientious instructors.

- "OK people, listen up! The thermal conditions have just become too strong for tandem instructional flights so we're grounding them - along with Three and under solos until things smooth out a bit maybe around four this afternoon. You Fours and Fives... Move on up to the head of the line but let's be careful out there! And max safe weak links only - as if any of you need to be told." (Yeah, right.)

- Everybody at every level of this sport from Hang 0.3 on up is supposed to know when he should and shouldn't be flying - you nauseatingly pretentious pseudo-intellectual little total douchebag. And for the overwhelming majority of situations they don't have problems in that department. But a real good time for you to have had a familiarity that would've allowed you to have known when to STOP FLYING would've been when you were standing on the ramp at Coronet Peak on 2006/02/21 when your intended passenger was hooked into your tandem thrill ride company's glider and you weren't. And it was a major tragedy for the gene pool when you survived.

That's what flying every day with the same people and equipment does for me.

- So I guess that was the problem with Mark Frutiger and Zack Marzec on 2013/02/02. They didn't fly every day with the same people and equipment.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Mark Frutiger - 2013/02/08 19:12:21 UTC

Zack hit the lift a few seconds after I did. He was high and to the right of the tug and was out of my mirror when the weak ling broke. The load on the tug was not excessive as with a lockout, but I was not surprised when the weak link broke. I was still in the thermal when I caught sight of Zack again. I did not see the entry to the tumble, but I did see two revolutions of a forward tumble before kicking the tug around to land. The thermal was still active in the area that I had just launched from so I did a go round and landed on a runway 90 degrees cross to the direction we were towing in.

Mark Frutiger - 2013/02/09 02:31:37 UTC

The turbulance level was strong, among the strongest thermal activity I've felt leaving the field. I've encountered stronger mechanical mixing, but the vertical velocity this time was very strong.

Thus neither one had a familiarity that allowed them to know when to STOP FLYING. Well Zack DID eventually stop flying but way too late. Or maybe too soon. Really hard to say for sure.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

William Olive - 2013/02/27 20:55:06 UTC

Like the rest of us, you have no idea what really happened on that tow.
We probably never will know.

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/28 01:17:55 UTC

Well said Billo
I'm a bit sick of all the armchair experts telling me how my friend died.

Ah but hg'ers get so uppity when you tell them not to speculate.

Really? Sounds like you had everything totally nailed four years and a couple months before the fatal inconvenience tumble. Had you modified your take on things without telling anyone during the interim?

- Flying with the same equipment every day? Don't comp pilots tend to do better as they take advantage of higher performing and better handling gliders as they become available? Cleaner harnesses, more sophisticated instruments? But all your towing equipment hit perfection twenty years ago?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24534
It's a wrap

Paul Tjaden - 2011/07/30 15:33:54 UTC

Quest Air has been involved in perfecting aerotowing for nearly 20 years...

You have zero interest in taking advantage of all the innovations that are constantly coming outta Quest?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/03 19:37:19 UTC

My response is short because I've been saying it for years... and yes, I'm a bit sick of it.
This is a very old horse and has been beaten to death time and time again... by a very vocal minority.

See, most people are happy with how we do things. This isn't an issue for them. They just come out and fly. Thing's aren't perfect, but that's life... and life ain't perfect. You do what you can with what you've got and you move on.

But then there's a crowd that "knows better". To them, we're all morons that can't see "the truth".
(Holy god, the names I've been called.)

I have little time for these people.

It saddens me to know that the rantings of the fanatic fringe mask the few people who are actually working on things.

The few people who are actually working on things aren't actually ever accomplishing anything worth looking at?

(In case anybody missed it... Guess who that "same equipment" comment was a dig against. And guess what shape parachute pin we're committed to using for our barrel releases until hell freezes over. And, given the title of the thread, don't even think about going up with a more convenient weak link.)

- Wow Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney! If only we can fly every day with the same people and equipment that you do maybe we too can become pilots of some fraction of your supreme magnificence! Any chance we can get lists of the people and equipment you fly with every day?

- Me? I totally fucked up. Flew 54 different glider models, solo, tandem, instructor, powered Quicksilver on pontoons, solo skydive, Cessna, behind five different flavors of tugs, frame only, two point, pro toad, balloon drop, 55 different sites, scooter, powered and payout winches, fixed line surface, turnaround pulley, step, foot, dolly, platform, truck, trailer, Schweizer sailplane, Hewett, three-string, Koch two-stage, barrel, Moyes, spinnaker shackle, homemade Rube Goldberg, no weak link, Standard Aerotow Weak Link, Tad-O-Link, four different harnesses, dune, hill, bluff, slot, flat slope, slot, cliff, ramp, crewed, partially hooked, monkey bar, lotsa different XC landing environments, foot, wheel, belly, tree, water, top, night, ridge, thermal, dynamic, fog, cloud, rain, snow... All wrong. I so do wish I'd just flown every day at the same place with the same people, using the same equipment.

- Do remind me not to fly every day with the same people and equipment you do. Maybe also put an advisory out to caution any potential passengers.

Gawd what an astounding level of multilayered total crap this asshole can compress into a post of a dozen sentences. But if you pay real close attention to what he's saying, not saying, forgotten what he has and hasn't said before you can get a lot of insight into how this organized crime syndicate is operating. If they were a lot better at their jobs they'd have Davis, Jack, Capitol delete all his posts. But maybe they figure that I've got most everything so well archived that it really wouldn't be worth the effort at this late date.

Back then I was trying to deal with that son of a bitch all by myself (and fuck you - Brian Vant-Hull) and The Industry sabotaged and retaliated against me. But after the 2013/02/02 Zack Marzec pro toad inconvenience Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney was so massively full of himself that he didn't have the slightest clue that he really needed to shut the fuck up and find something else to do, Davis pulled air cover, and Team Kite Strings was able to ANNIHILATE him. Bye-bye Jim Rooney and the Hewett based Infallible Standard Aerotow Weak Link - PERMANENTLY, for all intents and purposes.
---
Amendment - 2019/09/07 22:20:00 UTC

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1079
$15 pacifiers

Tad Eareckson - 2005/10/08 20:07:33 UTC

Since last writing I have returned to Ridgely for some continuing education.

First off - concession to Kevin. Yeah, based on the information that I've had a few and the tandem pilots haven't, lockouts are probably a lot more preventable than I had previously assumed.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/9.032
The Worlds - weaklinks

Davis Straub - 2005/02/07

For a couple of years I have flown with a doubled weaklink because, flying with a rigid wing glider, I have found that there is little reason to expect trouble on tow, except from a weaklink break.

The infuriating insidious implication being that it's a whole nuther can of worms for you on a flexy - not to mention all us muppets on our flexies. In that case...

http://ozreport.com/12.081
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules

Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC

Getting pilots into the air quickly is also safer as it reduces the stress that pilots feel on the ground and keeps them focused on their job which is to launch safely and without hassling the ground crew or themselves. When we look at safety we have to look at the whole system, not just one component of that system. One pilot may feel that one component is unsafe from his point of view and desire a different approach, but accommodating one pilot can reduce the overall safety of the system.

...it's a one-size-fits-all Standard Davis Link or you go to the back of the line to gear properly with a one-size-fits-all Standard Davis Link.

But...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Davis Straub - 2013/03/06 18:29:05 UTC

You know, after all this discussion I'm now convinced that it is a very good idea to treat the weaklink as a release, that that is exactly what we do when we have a weaklink on one side of a pro tow bridle. That that is exactly what has happened to me in a number of situations and that the whole business about a weaklink only for the glider not breaking isn't really the case nor a good idea for hang gliding.

I'm happy to have a relatively weak weaklink, and have never had a serious problem with the Greenspot 130, just an inconvenience now and then.

I'm thinking about doing a bit more testing as there seemed to be some disagreement around here about what the average breaking strength of a loop of Greenspot (or orange) weaklink was.

For some unfathomable reason what's TROUBLE on the rigid is a mere INCONVENIENCE at worst on the already inherently control compromised flexy.

Go figure.

Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC

For many years a number of us (US pilots) have felt that #8 bricklayers nylon line was not an appropriate material to use for weaklinks as it is not as consistent in its breaking strength (as far as we are concerned) as the Greenspot line used in the US. At the 2008 Forbes Flatlands Greenspot for the first time was used as the standard weaklink material (thanks in large part to the efforts of Bobby Bailey). We applaud these efforts to improve the safety of aerotowing by using a better weaklink material.

We've never had and never will have the slightest fucking clue as to its actual breaking strength but the important thing here is that whatever it is...

http://ozreport.com/3.066
Weaklinks

Davis Straub - 1999/06/06

During the US Nationals I wrote a bit about weaklinks and the gag weaklinks that someone tied at Quest Air. A few days after I wrote about them, Bobby Bailey, designer and builder of the Bailey-Moyes Dragon Fly tug, approached me visibly upset about what I and James Freeman had written about weaklinks. He was especially upset that I had written that I had doubled my weaklink after three weaklinks in a row had broken on me.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Davis Straub - 2011/08/28 15:26:28 UTC

Then again, Russell Brown had us double up behind him after six breaks in a row at Zapata. We couldn't figure out why we had so many breaks so quickly. Maybe just coincidence.

...it's...

Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06

IGFA braided Dacron fishing line is readily available in a wide range of strengths that work for us, including 100, 130, 160, 180, 200, 250, and 300 lb. line. One source states that their Dacron braided line is IGFA approved, and they publish a chart of the actual tested breaking strengths for their various lines]. They state that their 130 lb. line breaks within one pound of 130, which is 5 to 10 times more precise than a metal TOST weak link. Their least precise 180 lb. line breaks within four pounds of 180 lbs., which is still twice as precise as a metal TOST weak link.

...extremely consistent.

What a pity though that...

http://www.questairforce.com/aero.html
Quest Air Aerotow FAQ

The strength of the weak link is crucial to a safe tow. It should be weak enough so that it will break before the pressure of the towline reaches a level that compromises the handling of the glider but strong enough so that it doesn't break every time you fly into a bit of rough air. A good rule of thumb for the optimum strength is one G, or in other words, equal to the total wing load of the glider.

...nobody's ever been able to calculate to within an accuracy of plus or minus 0.7 percent the towline pressure level at which the handling of a hang glider is compromised. Maybe you can take a shot on that one...

http://airtribune.com/2019-big-spring-nationals/info/details__info

2019 Big Spring Nationals - 2019/07

Weaklinks of 140 and 200 pounds will be available and provided by the organizers. Weaklinks provided by the organizers must be used by the competitors.

...to help get all us muppets on the proper page.

P.S. Notice the way that as Quest has continued to perfect aerotowing target hang glider weak link success consistency has improved from plus or minus 0.7 percent to plus or minus 17.6 percent? Keep up the outstanding work guys.

[Tad Eareckson]

A few things have recently occurred to me...

Donnell Hewett - 1980/12

Now I've heard the argument that "Weak links always break at the worst possible time, when the glider is climbing hard in a near stall situation," and that "More people have been injured because of a weak link than saved by one." Well, I for one have been saved by a weak link and would not even consider towing without one. I want to know without a doubt (1) when I am pushing too hard, and (2) what will break when I push too hard, and (3) that no other damage need result because I push too hard.

Weak links have NEVER in hang gliding on any measurable scale been used...

Tost Flugzeuggerätebau

Weak links protect your aircraft against overloading.

...in the only capacity for which they CAN be safely and sanely used - to protect your aircraft against overloading. Prior to Hewett I don't think there'd been a single published reference to them anywhere 'cause all of the relevant emphasis was on...

Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974

"A bad flyer won't hurt a pin man but a bad pin man can kill a flyer." - Bill Bennett
"Never take your hands off the bar." - Tom Peghiny
"The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release." - Richard Johnson

...not having:
- sudden increases in the safety of the towing operation
- bad pin men making good decisions in the interest of your safety
- the Pilot In Command taking short breaks during critical situations
And all this was clearly reflected in all the towing fatality and lesser consequences incident reports.

In fact I remember in the fall of 1980 at Nags Head (wasn't there but heard the postmortem after dark) just a few weeks before Hewett would submit his articles to the magazine for publication Doug Rice kiting up with a frame tow bridle in strong wind with Randy Cobb on the other end minus a knife of any description, pulling all the line off the drum at maybe a couple grand, overloading the Schweizer sailplane release, lifting the Yarnall winch off the ground. Must've looked a lot like this:

109-15221
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8615/16487544910_41f57852ac_o.png


2013/06/15 Mission Soaring Center state-of-the-art equipment version 'cept with a lot more line pressure and an uneventful ending.

So if Hewett's hearing (and note that he's HEARING - and not READING anywhere) the argument that "Weak links always break at the worst possible time, when the glider is climbing hard in a near stall situation," and that "More people have been injured because of a weak link than saved by one." those weak links are being used to prevent the glider from getting into too much trouble and his solution to the issue is to make them much safer than the ones all those other assholes are using. Despite - I just realized - not having the slightest fucking clue regarding any ratings of any of these obviously dangerous Tad-O-Links.

One G. That'll obviously break well BEFORE the glider can climb hard in a near stall situation and the pilot is able to get into enough trouble to get injured.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/05 21:40:02 UTC

You want MORE.
I want you to have less.
This is the fundamental disagreement.
You're afraid of breaking off with a high AOA? Good... tow with a WEAKER weaklink... you won't be able to achieve a high AOA. Problem solved.

Problem solved. The Hewett Infallible Weak Link continues doing EXACTLY the same lethal bullshit 'cause he's using EXACTLY what all those other assholes were - some piece o' shit loop of fishing line that blows in light morning conditions in one out of four otherwise fully controlled launches and needlessly crashes gliders and breaks arms. But his are OK 'cause he's got a precise scientific upper value limit on his so if anything bad happens it's all pilot incompetency. 1.0 Gs. God himself couldn't have determined a more easily memorable safe upper limit. Also convenient 'cause anyone is able to define anything as 1.0 Gs. (Right...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Marc Fink - 2007/05/19 12:58:31 UTC

Tad--you have in fact made many erroneous statements concerning accidents--mostly to back up your convictions of the faulty nature of towing. The simple fact is that hundreds of thousands of tows using weaklinks in their present configuration successfully bely your contentions that we're all crazy for towing that way.

Simply put, your statements are irresponsible and are based on your personal interpretations.

I am a tow operator--as well as a "towee." I also do aerotow tandems. Using greenline or similar line, which generally tests at 125 lbs +- 50 lbs is widely accepted because it simply works well and relatively predicatably for the enormous range of conditions and applications in towing. If this weren't true, then accident rates would be much higher and these kinds of weaklinks would have been abandoned along time ago.

...Marc?)

Next issue... The Center Of Mass Bridle...



The more sideways you get the more effectively you'll be rolled back to center. And pilots quickly learned to relax and let the towline do the work - exerting only enough control input to counteract the adverse yaw issue. Also if you push too hard the Infallible Weak Link will increase the safety of the towing operation and all you'll hafta do is safely land with a perfectly timed flare - being careful not to push either too hard or too softly - and start all over again.

Light touch...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvhzoVC1UqM
Simple Progression for Teaching Hang Gliding

Ryan Voight - 2015/02/22

As with all hang gliding, it's important to encourage a light touch.

069-25104
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1572/26142964830_289bc3f2cb_o.png


If you teach them how to pull the glider with the harness they'll learn to steer the glider through weight shift simply by running toward their target.

Don't push - or pull - too hard. Let the harness lines - with just you and/or the towline pulling them - do all the heavy lifting.

(Note that Donnell illustrates his yawed-way-the-hell-away-from-its-driver glider as rolled zero degrees. Under Skyting Theory the Hewett Infallible Weak Link will have safely terminated the tow if the glider rolls more than five degrees away from the driver. (Probably towards him as well.))

Here's the textbook example of a Hewett Infallible Weak Link letting a student tow pilot know when he's pushing too hard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYe3YmdIQTM


2012/01/29 - Albuquerque - Bryan Bowker - Two rated Mark Knight victim - both control tubes and right arm in three places. Pity that, being a student tow pilot, he also isn't terribly proficient at responding to the Hewett Infallible Weak Link's instantaneous increase in the safety of the towing operation / inconvenience stall. With that totally excellent feedback mechanism in place he'd have done much better on the next flight - if there'd ever been one. (Note: one year and three days before Zack Marzec's Standard Aerotow Weak Link lets him know when he's pushing too hard.)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/7230
Towing question

Martin Henry - 2009/06/26 06:06:59 UTC

PS... you got to be careful mentioning weak link strengths around the forum, it can spark a civil war

And that will ONLY be 'cause T** at K*** S****** is (or was) on the wire.

The Standard Aerotow Weak Link was the single most insanely lethal safety device ever incorporated into any design in any capacity in the entire world history of aviation from Otto Lilienthal on to this day. You're on a short fixed length towline with Industry mandated easily reachable releases and your driver is busy flying his own plane and in the critical window can't adjust the power to help you off AT ALL beyond...

Wills Wing / Blue Sky / Steve Wendt / Ryan Voight Productions - 2007/03

NEVER CUT THE POWER...



Reduce Gradually
Increase Gradually

Donnell Hewett - 1985/08

THE SKYTING CRITERIA
2. CONSTANT TENSION
The tension in the towline must remain essentially constant throughout every phase of the towed flight.
5. GRADUAL TRANSITIONS
The transition to and from tow as well as any variations while on tow must be gradual in nature.

...cutting it instantly and totally. (Well, maybe BHPA paraglider weak links if you count that as aviation - which you probably shouldn't.)

Hewett went globally viral via his printed snail mail newsletter right after the USHGA Board douchebags decided no one should be permitted to hear the rest of what he had to say and the data showing that the Infallible Weak Link was doing pretty much the opposite of what it was supposed to be doing immediately began pouring it from all points.

But in the few widely scattered quarters that started reinvigorating the arguments that Donnell had heard the trend was to revert to the original practice of not using them at all versus dialing them up towards or to their sole purpose utility.

And I feel pretty safe in saying that prior to 2007/05/16 12:53:34 UTC there was no aeronautically solid attack on the then 26 year old Hewett Infallible Weak Link total lunacy. I got a little support along the way but most of it was half baked and would end when I'd get "moderated". Nobody ever got banned from a flying site or forum along with me during the period between then and Zack's founding of Kite Strings.

That provided us a safe base of guerrilla operations from which we were able to totally demolish Donnell 2.0 AKA Jim Rooney, permanently end public support for the Hewett Infallible Weak Link concept, send a lot of reputations down the toilet where they belonged.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/07/22 22:30:28 UTC

I've heard it a million times before from comp pilots insisting on towing with even doubled up weaklinks (some want no weaklink). I tell them the same thing I'm telling you... suck it up. You're not the only one on the line. I didn't ask to be a test pilot. I can live with your inconvenience.

A million comp pilots. And not a whisper of public support, expression of gratitude, acknowledgement of existence from a single one of the motherfuckers.

Lucky breaks...

1999/05/28. A major commercial AT operation launches in my backyard. Minus all the firsthand experience, involvement, observations, lab work I wonder if I'd have ever gotten it. I questioned what they were doing on Weekend One, Chad handed me a glass of Flight Park Mafia Kool-Aid and I swallowed it. Took 6.8 seasons for the effects to wear off and start really paying attention to the fuckin' assholes behind the curtain. Highland Aerosports also soon spawned Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney and molded him into a tug driver. Every time that motherfucker opened his mouth in public it was Christmas times ten.

2008/07/21. Paul Tjaden's 1.4 G Tad-O-Link bends Russell Brown's fake tow mast breakaway and overnight all Dragonfles go to three strand - 25 percent safer than what's on all the tandems they continue to pull and blatantly illegal - minus a whisper of notification to the recreational and comp pilot sectors.

2011/08/11. Pete Lehmann sands his left knee down to the bone on the Zapata runway due to a Standard Aerotow Weak Link inconvenience just off the cart and Russell Brown (tug pilot, tug owner, Quest Air owner) said go ahead and double up in order to reduce the coincidence level enough to start getting gliders up beyond ten feet.

2012/06. Dr. Trisa Tilletti spends fourteen pages of magazine print teaching us how to tie a loop of 130 pound Greenspot so that it breaks more consistently and in accordance with their expectations for solo gliders. It will be publicly accessible until Hell freezes over.

2013/02/02. Pro toad tandem aerotow instructor Kool Kid Zack Marzec launches with a Standard Aerotow Weak Link behind Mark Frutiger at Quest less than 24 hours after posting a near five minute high quality video documenting everything Quest is doing and using - decades worth of tireless and unending perfecting of aerotowing. They elect to continue a few seconds off the cart into a monster thermal which stands Zack on his tail and blasts him up like a rocket until the focal point of his safe towing system and precision Pilot In Command increases the safety of the towing operation by dumping him into a fatal tumble from 150 feet. The new and only surviving Pilot In Command in a state of shock blurts out an accurate account of what happened before Tim Herr gets to tell him what actually happened. Nobody's done the slightest thing wrong and yet... Rooney's twenty times too stupid to know when he really needs to shut the fuck up and Davis pulls protection and allows Team Kite Strings / Tad's Hole in the Ground Gang to beat him into an unrecognizable pulp - a beating from which he will never recover.

2014/02/24. Mark Knight doing absolutely nothing wrong in glassy smooth evening conditions with zero pounds per square inch of towline pressure on his Dragonfly's tail buys the farm.

2016/05/20. Kite Strings Member In Poor Standing Niki Longshore posts a video inadvertently giving us an excellent view what's become fashionable in the way of the focal point of a safe towing system for pro toad little girl gliders.

02-00820c
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7252/27169646315_9af9a62298_o.png


Compare/Contrast with what they'd been happy with three years plus change before:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8394/8696380718_787dbc0005_o.png


2016/05/21. (The next day.) Quest Air Open Part 2. Ace airline and pro toad comp pilot Jeff Bohl on a Tad-O-Link launches behind Pilot In Command April Mackin's 582 Dragonfly on Runway 27 and makes an easy reach to try to secure a camera dangling from his harness which puts him into a slow progression lockout. Tug can't climb, becomes critically compromised, fixes whatever's going on back there by giving her passenger the rope a fraction of a second after the Tad-O-Link increases the safety of the towing operation as Jeff continues on to instantly fatal impact. Banned Kite Strings member Christopher LeFay publishes a detailed account of the incident and we harvest it before Davis has a chance to delete it. Nobody breathes a word about weak link strength.

2019/07. http://airtribune.com/2019-big-spring-nationals/info/details__info

2019 Big Spring Nationals

Weaklinks of 140 and 200 pounds will be available and provided by the organizers. Weaklinks provided by the organizers must be used by the competitors.

280 or 400 pounds pro toad towline regardless of glider model, flying weight, pilot rating, experience, flying conditions, front end issues. Dangerous off the ends of those two limits and dead center between them. No theory, arguments, opinions need apply.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/05 21:40:02 UTC

I'm sorry that you don't like that the tug pilot has the last word... but tough titties.
Don't like it?
Don't ask me to tow you.

Go troll somewhere else buddy.
I'm over this.

Is this a great sport or what.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Bill Cummings - 2011/09/03 17:57:47 UTC

Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974

"The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release." - Richard Johnson

Richard Johnson was my tow instructor (Jan 1978)
The type of towing he was referring to was: Pop starts off of the beach, tow rope special ordered from Japan (3/8," diameter, 2,025 lbs breaking strength), no weak-link, towing bridle hooked only to a stainless steel control frame, climb rates of over 1,000'/min., where a rope break or premature release would put you into a loop. Don't read any more into his statement than that. It has absolutely no correlation to any of the kind of towing that is being done now days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm-YPa_Gvdw
GRAZIANO HD FRONT VIEW CAM

Graziano Mele 2010/09/19

11-03602
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5312/14395027351_2c50d06c3e_o.png

Safety is a book, not a word
Michael Robertson

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Bill Cummings - 2011/09/03 17:57:47 UTC

Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974

"The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release." - Richard Johnson

Richard Johnson was my tow instructor (Jan 1978)
The type of towing he was referring to was: Pop starts off of the beach, tow rope special ordered from Japan (3/8," diameter, 2,025 lbs breaking strength), no weak-link, towing bridle hooked only to a stainless steel control frame, climb rates of over 1,000'/min., where a rope break or premature release would put you into a loop. Don't read any more into his statement than that. It has absolutely no correlation to any of the kind of towing that is being done now days.

Richard Johnson was my tow instructor (Jan 1978)

How astounding it is that you survived that era of pure insanity totally unscathed. You must've been a member of that extremely lucky one percent.

The type of towing he was referring to was: Pop starts off of the beach...

- Which is what you were doing, right?
- Probably stalled every other effort. You'da thunk they'd have learned something after a while.

...tow rope special ordered from Japan...

Seeing as how the technology to produce tow rope capable of getting hang gliders aloft didn't exist in the US prior to about 1985.

...(3/8," diameter...

Who gives a flying fuck about the diameter for the purpose of the discussion? The higher the diameter the greater the drag and the less efficient the tow. Just like what you get when you're towing a draggy glider.

...2,025 lbs breaking strength)...

- The implication being that when you blew a towline you were blowing it at two thousand pounds. Bullshit. When you blew a towline you blew it at a normal range tension (they called it "tension" back then) due to wear, damage, crappy splicing.

- And please don't bother telling us anything about the material or its elasticity.

...no weak-link...

Must've been...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 02:44:10 UTC

See, in truck towing, a weaklink does next to nothing for you (unless the line snags).
This is because you're on a pressure regulated system... so the forces never get high enough to break the link.

This is not the case with an aerotow.
This is why the weaklink exists.

The forces of an aerotow can get high enough to tear the wings off the glider.
This is no exaggeration... it can be done.

...tearing the wings off of gliders all the fuckin' time.

Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06

You and I have flown sailplanes for almost as long as we have flown hang gliders. We own two sailplanes and have two airplanes that we use for towing full-size sailplanes. In all the time that we have flown and towed sailplanes, we have not experienced or even seen a sailplane weak link break.

Tell me why on any given flight it should MATTER whether or not you have a weak link, parachute, helmet, hook knife?

...towing bridle hooked only to a stainless steel control frame...

- Bolted to a stainless steel keel of course. Which hinged up front to stainless steel leading edges.
- Instead of through the harness, suspension, carabiner hang strap which can turn the glider to scrap metal a dozen times over.

...climb rates of over 1,000'/min...

Big fuckin' deal. A thousand feet per minute is under eleven and a half miles per hour. We hit 1200 fpm commonly in good thermal lift even in the East. Aerobatic pilots will go 90 to start a loop and they're probably doing a good 35 minimum upside down over the top.

...where a rope break or premature release would put you into a loop.

- Instead of the mere inconvenience whipstall, tailslide, double tumble, fatal impact Zack Marzec experienced when his barely-legal-at-best Standard Aerotow Weak Link increased the safety of the towing operation at Quest in a monster thermal at 150 feet off the runway. 260 pounds tops. Can you even begin to imagine how much more badly he'd have been killed at near eight times that? I shudder to think.

- So you must've been put into a lot of loops back then. Any chance we can hear accounts of three or four of them?

- It doesn't put you into a loop - idiot. If it did you'd have the energy to do whatever the fuck you felt like with the glider. It puts you into a severe stall - after which all bets are off.

- This is total fucking bullshit. We have tons of towing incident reports from that era and we know what was happening. And Richard summarized it just fine.

Don't read any more into his statement than that.

Nah Bill. 'Specially not when we have...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Bill Cummings - 2013/02/28 06:11:37 UTC

When the pilot lost the towline it had the nose too high and due to that it climbed into a stall. My weaklinks would not allow me to climb that fast and develop into a stall like that.

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2527
Brainstorm, stop towline recovery chute entanglement.

Bill Cummings - 2016/06/25 14:20:12 UTC

Depending on the elasticity of a towline, releasing under much tension has proven to be a good way to instantly tie a bow or a knot in the falling towline. For this reason as well as not wanting to release into a climbing hammerhead stall I would always have the tow vehicle reduce (not totally) the line tension before releasing. I reduce tension for releasing while doing ST, (over land or water.) PL (over land or water.)

...such high quality expertise from such highly experienced operators as yourself. What an extraordinarily fortunate miracle it was that you yourself survived that era of massive carnage without so much as a skinned knee to show for it.

It has absolutely no correlation to any of the kind of towing that is being done now days.

Nah, now we have Mission Soaring Center flying people on their state-of-the-art equipment, there's no problem that can't be solved with a properly tied loop of 130 pound Greenspot, you have a lot better control in aerotowing if you eliminate the top connection, putting weak links on BOTH ends of a bridle doubles max attainable tension and thus cuts the safety margins of the towing operation in half, using a back end weak link stronger than the one up front takes the front one out of the equation, while the guy on the front end of the AT is the Pilot In Command anything bad that happens is entirely the passenger's fault, there's a way to swing your body way outside the control frame so it stays up there while you reach out with one hand and release if you did enough pushups last winter...

I think if we'd known the price we'd end up paying for Hewett's Center-Of-Mass Bridle towing system and the Skyting Theory packaged with it we'd have continued towing with a frame only connection.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/6726
Weaklinks

Peter Birren - 2008/10/27 23:41:49 UTC

My take is more like what's on http://www.birrendesign.com/towing_B.html

No dolly... foot launched static tow.

You trying to tell me the pilot had time to release? Not a prayer.

I know about this type of accident because it happened to me, breaking 4 ribs and my larynx... and I was aerotowing using a dolly. The sh*t happened so fast there was no room for thought much less action. But I wasn't dragged because the weaklink did its job and broke immediately on impact.

You're focusing on AT but there's a lot more towing going on then at the flat/smooth-ground country club sites. On a crowned country road, off the back of a truck or trailer... ain't a place for a dolly or a threaded bridle of any type.

If your belief is that the weaklink is there mainly to protect the equipment and break before the glider breaks, I suggest you try to break one while being towed. With a 1.4G link, which in my case is about 385 pounds, I may as well not even bother because a slightly worn towline will break at about that tension.

No, you will not be happy with the result of a weaklink breaking should the pilot stumble and the glider impact the ground, but it's still better than being dragged until the tug stops (or in the case of static towing, the vehicle stops and the tension on the towline eases).

Imagine if you will, just coming off the cart and center punching a thermal which takes you instantly straight up while the tug is still on the ground. Know what happens? VERY high towline forces and an over-the-top lockout. You'll have both hands on the basetube pulling it well past your knees but the glider doesn't come down and still the weaklink doesn't break (.8G). So you pull whatever release you have but the one hand still on the basetube isn't enough to hold the nose down and you pop up and over into an unplanned semi-loop. Been there, done that... at maybe 200 feet agl.

Now maybe if I'd pushed out quickly, real quick-like, the weaklink might have broken. That, however, would have possibly also put the tug pilot and plane in jeopardy if it didn't break.

Scenario: at a static tow site, driver takes his eyes off the gauge to watch the pilot in the rear view mirror. When he looks back, the gauge is reading zero, so he steps on the gas... but the needle had gone all the way around to about 350 lbs and here he was giving more tension. Pilot stuff the bar 'cuz to let go as low as he was would be riskier. Pilot rode it out until the .8G weaklink broke, holding the bar to his knees and riding it "over the top" to safe, level flight. (shoulda seen the pilot's eyes... big as the proverbial saucers.)

So if the 914 can only pull .5G, then why in Heaven's name do you need a 1.4G weaklink?

Nice that you've got a good place to aerotow with good dollies and all, but your "strong link" will have brought more hurt onto the pilot who crashed because it won't break soon enough. As for my incidents and evidence, the above stories should be enough but, if not, I can provide several others where the main thing proved (to me and others on-site) is that a less-than-1G weaklink is MUCH better than a strong link.

My take is more like what's on http://www.birrendesign.com/towing_B.html

No dolly... foot launched static tow.

You trying to tell me the pilot...

http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident2.jpg
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident3.jpg


That's not a pilot. Same fuckin' douchebag we see:

08-0813
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1621/25841495775_5e7e52244e_o.png


and:

14-0614 - 18-0801


There's zero excuse for any of that dope on a rope bullshit and it's moronic to try to develop equipment, procedures, training regimens to deal with it.

P.S. Note that in none of those incidents does the Pilot In Command fix whatever's going on back there by giving the dope on the rope the rope. Conspicuously unidentified at Finger Lakes, unidentified at Florida Ridge, Bobby at Big Spring.

...had time to release?

Yes. The motherfucker even comes close to saying...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Davis Straub - 2013/02/13 15:45:22 UTC

Mouth releases for the first three seconds of the tow

...he did.

Not a prayer.

I'll leave the praying to you, Peter. (See below.) That's most of what you have going for you. Kids on bicycles have and need to have the ability to hit the brakes and slow themselves down within small fractions of seconds without compromising an ounce's worth of control. A properly equipped glider can do the same with respect to the release. Fuck all you "easily reachable" douchebags.

I know about this type of accident...

- There's no such thing as an "accident" in this sport. And anyone who believes otherwise has no business attempting to participate in it.
- Yeah Peter, I haven't the slightest doubt the you're intimately familiar with tons of types of "accidents".

...because it happened to me, breaking 4 ribs and my larynx...

- Pity it didn't break your fingers enough to prevent you from posting the total rubbish you do.

- Right. It HAPPENED to you. There you were - minding your own business, doing everything superbly right - and this "accident" just HAPPENED to you. Just like Davis's happened to him.

...and I was aerotowing using a dolly.

- Too many parts. The more components/complexity the greater the chances for something going wrong. If we all foot launched for AT the accident rate would undoubtedly drop by 33 to 50 percent. Eliminate the tug as well and the sky's the limit.

- None of the above. I know how to aerotow and use a dolly and there's zero excuse for ever getting into a situation like that. Try finding a more suitable hobby for yourself.

The sh*t happened so fast there was no room for thought...

- 'Specially for some asshole who's gone decades with no room for thought.
- Actual pilots don't waste time THINKING about shit in critical situations. They REACT.

...much less action.

Compare/Contrast with pilots in World War One dogfights.

But I wasn't dragged because the weaklink did its job and broke immediately on impact.

As it was so carefully designed, calibrated, field tested to do.

You're focusing on AT...

No shit. Name some XC comps that get gliders into the air via surface towing.

...but there's a lot more towing going on then at the flat/smooth-ground country club sites.

- Fuck yeah. Let's dig some holes in the runways the way they do at Florida Ridge. Make things way more sporting.

- There's not a lot of surface towing going on. Yeah, it's a lot cheaper than aerotowing but it's a tiny fraction as efficient. The driver can seldom get you up very high, he can't search around for or drive you over to thermals, the max release altitude is usually pretty limited - even out in the middle of the fuckin' desert, the turnaround's a relative major bitch. We can get a fairly good idea of the relative volume of surface towing by monitoring discussions and video postings and it's a drop in the bucket in most hang gliding cultures around the planet.

On a crowned country road...

A crowned heavily potholed country road. Well maintained crowned country roads are for fags.

...off the back of a truck or trailer...

- So we're talking about platform launch payout winch.

Zack C - 2011/03/04 05:29:28 UTC

As for platform launching, I was nervous about it when I started doing it. It looked iffy, like things could get bad fast. I've since logged around 100 platform launches and have seen hundreds more. Never once was there any issue. I now feel platform launching is the safest way to get a hang glider into the air (in the widest range of conditions). You get away from the ground very quickly and don't launch until you have plenty of airspeed and excellent control.

Which is monumentally difficult to fuck up.

- Tell me why it should matter whether or not the road's crowned. You're gonna be launching on it minus oncoming traffic in its middle and the glider's gonna be taking off level. And even if you took off rolled a few degrees it wouldn't matter.

...ain't a place for a dolly...

- Nah. But a SUPERB place for foot launching. What's the worst that could happen?
- Duh. We've got a truck and/or a trailer. But let's try using a dolly anyway. Think how boring things could get otherwise.

...or a threaded bridle of any type.

Yeah, we have SO MANY incidents resulting from threaded bridles in AT. The only reason that we're able to keep the fatality rate down to about five per flight park per season is 'cause we're launching at flat/smooth-ground country club sites. It's a lot safer to lock out and slam into those than the high testosterone environments you're using all the time.

The fuckin' Flight Park Mafia total douchebags bend over backwards to make their cheap shit bridles as wrap prone as possible. And yet it took the mega stupidity of the Shane Smith surface operation to produce a consequential incident out of the deal.

If your belief is that the weaklink is there mainly to protect the equipment...

- No the weak link is NOT there AT ALL to "protect the equipment". That's the Steve Kroop flavor bullshit used to derail the conversation into a discussion about toasters.

...and break before the glider breaks...

- That's not MY BELIEF - dickhead. That's...

Tost Flugzeuggerätebau

Weak links protect your aircraft against overloading.

...THE definition and only sane implementation of a weak link. Donnell doesn't get to redefine aeronautics and aeronautical engineering based on his opinions.

...I suggest you try to break one while being towed.

I suggest you go fuck yourself, Peter. Can anyone imagine any sailplane training or exercise in which the glider is deliberately maneuvered to blow the weak link? They don't even have training that insane in hang gliding. Instead we have:

The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc. - 2016/10/22
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
02. Pilot Proficiency System
11. Hang Gliding Special Skill Endorsements
-A. Special Skills attainable by Novice
05. Aerotow

-f. The candidate must also demonstrate the ability to properly react to a weak link/tow rope break simulation with a tandem rated pilot, initiated by the tandem pilot at altitude, but at a lower than normal release altitude. Such demonstrations should be made in smooth air.

Pretty far cry from your induced actual lockout, ain't it Peter? So how come you haven't lobbied u$hPa for anything remotely approaching realistic training scenarios? ("Now carefully aim your rifles at the German soldiers and tell them to drop their weapons and put their hands up.")

With a 1.4G link, which in my case is about 385 pounds...

Fifteen pounds less than the more dangerous option Davis...

http://airtribune.com/2019-big-spring-nationals/info/details__info

2019 Big Spring Nationals

Weaklinks of 140 and 200 pounds will be available and provided by the organizers. Weaklinks provided by the organizers must be used by the competitors.

...now permits you at u$hPa comps.

02-00820c
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7252/27169646315_9af9a62298_o.png

I may as well not even bother because a slightly worn towline will break at about that tension.

Right. The two thousand pound Spectra that they use for pulling tandems when slightly worn will break at about four hundred pounds of tension.

No, you will not be happy with the result of a weaklink breaking should the pilot stumble and the glider impact the ground...

Let's hear it one more time for foot launched aerotowing.

...but it's still better than being dragged until the tug stops (or in the case of static towing, the vehicle stops and the tension on the towline eases).

- Wow! I never thought of that before! I too will start once again using 0.8 G weak links which blow every other launch 'cause on those frequent occasions that I stumble and fall on my face my Rooney Link will prevent me from being dragged. And all other imaginable situations involving an instantaneous loss of two and a quarter hundred pounds of thrust will be a mere inconvenience at the very worst.

- If we're so fucking worried about being "dragged" then how come there's not a single solo tow operation on the planet at which wheels or skids are mandatory safety equipment? (See 08-0813 above.)

- Oh look. All Aleksey needs to do in order to simulate a weak link success is to...

04-00221
http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8043/29698757925_37caa62bc0_o.png

08-00711
http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8045/29663193986_478f5ab6d0_o.png

17-22705
http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8245/29072297624_4ea198fc0f_o.png

21-22805
http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8482/29074014363_bfb9cfd746_o.png


...stop biting down on his spring loaded actuator mechanism. But it's not a Linknife based system so it couldn't possibly merit a second look.

Imagine if you will, just coming off the cart and center punching a thermal which takes you instantly straight up while the tug is still on the ground.

I'll have to imagine it. I use a two point bridle which trims my glider properly. I've flown a lot in strong thermal conditions and never come anywhere close to experiencing anything like that at any altitude. I've only heard of several incidents like that and they've all been pro toads. I think you're flying one point. Otherwise you'd be running your mouth about this happening despite the really great trim job you did.

Know what happens?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg


Yep.

VERY high towline forces...

EXTREMELY. At best the minimum legal weak link strength. Same one that blows on launch six times in a row in light morning conditions at Zapata.

...and an over-the-top lockout. You'll have both hands on the basetube...

Why? Everyone and his dog know that you only need one hand to safely control a glider during a lockout emergency. You use the spare hand to blow your Industry Standard easily reachable release.

...pulling it well past your knees...

Kinda like?:

http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4174/34261733815_bfb41c49d8_o.jpg


(See immediately above.)

...but the glider doesn't come down and still the weaklink doesn't break (.8G).

How many fillings did you lose?

So you pull whatever release you have...

- I don't use "whatever release you have". I take this shit seriously and design and fly with stuff of quality that you can't begin to imagine.

- Really odd that you're flying with "whatever release you have". You announce your Linknife in the magazine 1996/10. Two possibilities. You're either flying with whatever crap they handed you or you're using your Birren Miracle Release. You're giving us this "you pull whatever release you have" bullshit to mask the fact that even with this "VERY high towline forces" bullshit that the flavor of the release mechanism doesn't matter.

...but the one hand still on the basetube isn't enough to hold the nose down...

Wow. Who'da ever thunk.

...and you pop up and over into an unplanned semi-loop.

Try planning them in the future. Might work better for ya.

Been there, done that... at maybe 200 feet agl.

- Good thing it wasn't MSL. Lake Michigan is 577. Thanks for the clarification.

- 200 feet. Tug's still on the ground, towline's probably 250 feet, VERY high towline forces in an over-the-top lockout. Tug doesn't release, comes out smelling like a rose. Go figure.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/31 09:25:57 UTC

See, you don't get to hook up to my plane with whatever you please. Not only am I on the other end of that rope... and you have zero say in my safety margins... I have no desire what so ever to have a pilot smashing himself into the earth on my watch. So yeah, if you show up with some non-standard gear, I won't be towing you. Love it or leave it. I don't care.

Thanks bigtime for the extra help in debunking all this "safety of the tug pilot"...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6029
Highland sept 28-29


...total rot.

Now maybe if I'd pushed out quickly, real quick-like, the weaklink might have broken.

Yeah, give that a try next time. Stuffing the bar past your knees didn't seem to be doing all that much good. Go to the other extreme. What's the worst that could happen?

That, however, would have possibly also put the tug pilot and plane in jeopardy if it didn't break.

- How noble of you.

- If it didn't break? How could such a carefully calibrated and time tested and proven safety device NOT break in any situation in which you and/or your Pilot In Command desire it to?

- And if the tug pilot had pulled whatever release he'd had...

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7509/15659143120_a9aae8f7bd_o.jpg


...with one hand he'd have undoubtedly also popped up and over into an unplanned semi-loop.

- See above.

This was a SERIOUS incident. Pretty good prequel to the 2013/02/02 Zack Marzec we're gonna get four and a quarter years from now at Quest - the one that remains an unfathomable mystery to the best minds in the business to this very day. So where was the formal incident report on this one? The one that tells us all about the conditions; tug and glider models; flying weight; experience levels; bridle, release, weak link configurations? Something everyone can read without first having to get your permission?

Scenario: at a static tow site, driver takes his eyes off the gauge to watch the pilot in the rear view mirror.

Holy shit! Why on earth would a driver ever take his eyes off the gauge...

022-04610
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2809/13746340634_a74b33d285_o.png


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7279/13746308554_dd06a390e4_o.png
042-05013

...to see what how the glider's doing? As long as the tension's moderate and constant the glider's obviously doing fine.

081-05122
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8707/16656418250_4d74c2b1c4_o.png


What an idiot.

091-10225
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5466/30417168536_d9e24ace86_o.png

When he looks back, the gauge is reading zero, so he steps on the gas... but the needle had gone all the way around to about 350 lbs and here he was giving more tension. Pilot stuff the bar 'cuz to let go as low as he was would be riskier.

- What? You think if he'd pulled whatever release he'd had that the one hand still on the basetube wouldn't have been enough to hold the nose down and he'd have popped up and over into an unplanned semi-loop at maybe 200 feet AGL? There seems to have been some kind of pattern involved in these incidents.

- He's looked up in the rear-view to look at the actual glider (for gawd knows what reason); it's doing fine (as if there were any other possibility with the tension reading constant); he looks back down at the gauge to see it reading zero - even though he's felt and seen NOTHING different going on with truck, glider, air... So he FLOORS IT. Common sense went totally out of the window with Donnell's publication of Skyting Theory and it will never have a snowball's chance in hell with any of his loyal diehard cult members.

Pilot rode it out until the .8G weaklink broke, holding the bar to his knees and riding it "over the top" to safe, level flight. (shoulda seen the pilot's eyes... big as the proverbial saucers.)

- Speaking of eyes... So obviously the driver still has both of his glued on the gauge still trying to get the needle to spin from "zero" to "280" (630). This is total Hewett based fringe activity.

08-01107
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7769/18376684492_a49fd12f3e_o.png


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8760/18376683312_0194935885_o.png
14-01405

- So how come you're not recommending a 0.6 G weak link? 'Cuz if it would've been "riskier" if he'd been let go low? Sounds to me like you're making more of this crappy argument that being on tow is somehow safer than being off tow.

So if the 914 can only pull .5G, then why in Heaven's name do you need a 1.4G weaklink?

- What a stupid fucking question. That's the steady state climbing thrust it delivers. That's not the peak loads you get when the air starts getting ugly.
-- We know with the 2002/08/17 Aerial Adventures the tow mast was trashed at around 350 pounds towline pulling significantly sideways.
-- So now we know what VERY high towline forces in an over-the-top AT lockout are. Half a G - max.

- "Heaven's". Capitalized.

Donnell Hewett - 1981/10-11

MY PRIORITIES

Those of you who do not know me personally may wonder - if skyting is really all that it's claimed to be - then why don't I spend more time, more money, and more effort in developing it to its completion? The reason is simply a matter of priorities. Development of the skyting technique, as important as it is, simply is not at the top of my list of priorities.

My first priority belongs to Jesus Christ, the Son of God, my Savior and Lord. Considering all He has done for me and the love we have for one another, I can do nothing less than commit my life and all that I have to Him and His service. If you know Him personally, then I'm sure that you understand my feelings and will agree that Jesus beats anything this world has to offer - including hang gliding. If you never come to meet Him, then ask someone to introduce you - believe me, until you do, you don't know what you're missing.

My second priority belongs to my family...

Birds of a feather?

Nice that you've got a good place to aerotow with good dollies and all...

- Something that couldn't POSSIBLY be managed in your neck of the woods.
- You mean something comparable to the way ALL sailplane operations are run?

...but your "strong link" will have brought more hurt onto the pilot who crashed because it won't break soon enough.

Good. That'll help clean up hang gliding's filthy gene pool a little bit.

As for my incidents and evidence, the above stories should be enough...

More enough than you can possibly ever imagine.

...but, if not, I can provide several others where the main thing proved (to me and others on-site) is that a less-than-1G weaklink is MUCH better than a strong link.

Well if they proved (to you and others on-site) that a less-than-1G weaklink is MUCH better than a strong link that's certainly way more than good enough for me.

And now we're in a world in which:
- u$hPa has:
-- revealed that over four years prior to Peter's post we'd been required under FAA regs to fly with an AT weak link minimum over - for all intents and purposes - and up to two and a half times Peter Birren's maximum
-- stolen the 1.4 G recommendation of T** at K*** S****** and presented it as their own work of genius
- Davis is mandating that two hundred pound little girl gliders fly at either 1.4 or 2.0 Gs and nothing in between
- Nobody's ever heard of Donnell Hewett, the Standard Aerotow Weak Link, Zack Marzec, Jim Rooney, Lauren Tjaden before
and we haven't heard the slightest whisper of dissent from Saint Peter of Linknife or any of his pet douchebags.

It's astonishing how clueless this guy is. My take on the phenomenon...

The mainstream quickly dumped the Hewett / Skyting / 2:1 / Center Of Mass Bridle 'cause they quickly figured out that it was Rube Goldberg junk that didn't really do anything. Aerotowing would've been the ideal implementation 'cause it's constantly pulling straight forward at zero tow angle but when practical aerotowing first started up with the Cosmos trike tug in 1983-4 they didn't even bother with a two point bridle 'cause they:
- were too fuckin' stupid to conceptualize a two point bridle
- could get away with one point most of the time
Platform launch appeared a year or two later and that rendered anything but one point low on the harness even more moronic.

The Hewett Bridle survived mostly only in isolated, inbred, cheapo, foot-launch tow environments. And I don't think ANY of the cult members were interested in much more than getting up a few hundred feet and sledding back down. Donnell goes extinct after his last student is killed platform towing 2010/10/13 just north of Edinburg, Texas. Other durable Skyting bridle perpetrators - Bill Cummings, Dan Guido, Mel and Charles Glantz, Curt Warren (Warren Windsports, Stanwell)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvhzoVC1UqM
Simple Progression for Teaching Hang Gliding

Ryan Voight - 2015/02/22

As with all hang gliding, it's important to encourage a light touch.

069-25104
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1572/26142964830_289bc3f2cb_o.png


If you teach them how to pull the glider with the harness they'll learn to steer the glider through weight shift simply by running toward their target.

Same deal, we'll never be able to kill it in a sport that rewards and promotes cluelessness, stupidity, incompetence.