http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9945
Launched unhooked
George Stebbins - 2007/10/26 16:05:20 UTC
The weak link is NOT there to prevent the glider from being overstressed on tow. OK, it serves that function too, but its main purpose is to release if you get too far off-line or some other issue causes the forces to become stronger than you, the pilot, can control. The forces become too strong for the pilot to overcome LONG BEFORE the glider gets overstressed. Does the weak link always do its job? Nope. On the other hand, making it too weak is a danger too. The key is to minimize risks. A reasonable weak link does that. It will seldom (but not never) break when it shouldn't. It will usually (but not always) break when it should. Different forms of towing use different strengths. And tandems need stronger ones regardless, because the tow forces are higher.
There are some folks who tow with very strong weak links. They are asking for trouble, IMO.
http://www.questairforce.com/aero.html
Aerotow FAQ
Quest Air Hang Gliding
Weak Link
The strength of the weak link is crucial to a safe tow. It should be weak enough so that it will break before the pressure of the towline reaches a level that compromises the handling of the glider but strong enough so that it doesn't break every time you fly into a bit of rough air. A good rule of thumb for the optimum strength is one G, or in other words, equal to the total wing load of the glider. Most flight parks use 130 lb. braided Dacron line, so that one loop (which is the equivalent to two strands) is about 260 lb. strong - about the average wing load of a single pilot on a typical glider. For tandems, either two loops (four strands) of the same line or one loop of a stronger line is usually used to compensate for nearly twice the wing loading. When attaching the weak link to the bridle, position the knot so that it's hidden from the main tension in the link and excluded altogether from the equation.
IMPORTANT - It should never be assumed that the weak link will break in a lockout.
ALWAYS RELEASE THE TOWLINE before there is a problem.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12512
Weak Links
George Stebbins - 2008/07/13 21:01:44 UTC
I've always been happy with the Quest Air links, and only once did one break when it annoyed me seriously, and for no apparent reason. (Just as I crossed the treeline. I had to whip a 180 before I ran out of altitude to do so. Then I had an interesting landing, not really having room to turn back into the wind...)
I've had enough links break when they should to think mine is ok...
Lookout Mountain Flight Park - 2009/07/12
The new GT aerotow release is designed to be used with a V bridle and a 130-pound green stripe Dacron tournament fishing line weak link. At this time it is not recommended to use this release with a higher value weak link. We are confident that with an ultimate load of 130 pounds at the release point, the new GT aerotow release works better than all cable releases that we have experience with.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=20756
How is Zach Etheridge doing?
Joey Quillen - 2011/02/04 01:34:54 UTC
Nashville
Does anyone know how Zach Etheridge fared after his accident late last year? He was being aerotowed at LMFP when his line released near the end of the LZ. He unsuccessfully tried to recover from the stall and turn around to land. He impacted and went unconscious. I happened to be across the LZ with some friends and we ran out to help, but he was out cold.
I tried calling the hospital but could never get through. Does anyone have any info on his status?
Bob Flynn - 2011/02/04 05:51:15
Jacksonville, North Carolina
I don't think I heard about this accident. I hope he recovered from his injuries.
Joey Quillen - 2011/02/04 10:01:30 UTC
I want to say it was in late August or early September. I had made my first mountain flight that day and I was so excited, then we saw him crash. It was a terrible sight. He is a middle aged gentleman, white beard, a slight belly, very nice guy, flies a North Wing Freedom, lives in Georgia (I think). I will post a pic of him when I can find one.
Diev Hart - 2011/02/04 10:25:40 UTC
Santa Cruz
This is what really bugs me, when things happen and the word never gets out...
SOOOOOO uncool as a school / organization / instructor...
(I'm not saying this wasn't reported though...(but I don't remember it either)...
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up
Jack Axaopoulos - 2009/11/09 14:44:23 UTC
Tad, your continual bashing in general and bashing of HG schools has gotten really old. AT parks have solid safety records, so what you say and reality seem to be quite far apart.
You dominate the ignore report here
http://www.hanggliding.org/ignorereport.php
Ever ask yourself why???
You do nothing but bring negativity here. My finger is on the ban button.
This is your last warning.
If you continue rubbing everyone the wrong way with your harsh, know it all tone, you are out of here.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17092
Crash at Questair
Alfie Norks - 2010/06/03 12:24:40 UTC
Brazil
Speedy recovery to the pilot in question.
It could have been worse. It could have happened at...the other place (but nothing happens there.
)
Good luck if it does. No 911 calls allowed. My friend was lucky, the nurse on hand convinced the owner not to move him, this after he snatched and threw her phone away.
She was trying to dial 911. My friend suffered lower back injury.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=20756
How is Zach Etheridge doing?
Bob Flynn - 2011/02/04 11:26:34 UTC
Lookout keeps this kind of stuff under their hat. You never hear of accidents there. But every time I go there, I hear about quite a few. Blown launches, tree landings, etc.
Joey Quillen - 2011/02/04 15:20:23 UTC
OK, I just called LMFP and asked about Zach. Apparently he made a full recovery after his accident and is back flying. He was there a week ago, even! That is a load off...
Christmas in February...
George,
The weak link is NOT there to prevent the glider from being overstressed on tow. OK, it serves that function too, but its main purpose is to release if you get too far off-line or some other issue causes the forces to become stronger than you, the pilot, can control...
Bullshit.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/4633
Weaklinks and aerotowing (ONLY)
Steve Kroop - 2005/02/10 04:50:59 UTC
Weak links are there to protect the equipment not the glider pilot. Anyone who believes otherwise is setting them selves up for disaster.
If you're gonna sing the praises of Quest's idiotic weak link policy then at least listen to one of the clowns down there who occasionally says something right.
Better yet - especially after listening in absolute astonishment to Mitch's assessment of Jim... Forget Quest ever existed and listen to these guys.
http://www.dynamicflight.com.au/WeakLinks.html
Weak Links - Dynamic Flight Hang Gliding School
Dynamic Flight - 2005
The purpose of a weak link is solely to prevent the tow force from increasing to a point that the glider can be stressed close to or beyond its structural limits.
...but its main purpose is to release if you get too far off-line or some other issue causes the forces to become stronger than you, the pilot, can control.
So what you're saying is that if you use a half G weak link (and I haven't heard you mention anything about either Gs or pounds of tow tension (and people who make these arguments never do)) you'll either always be able to control the glider on tow or you won't be on tow?
The forces become too strong for the pilot to overcome LONG BEFORE the glider gets overstressed.
I got some REAL bad news for you. The forces can easily become too strong for the pilot to overcome LONG BEFORE a fuzzy loop of 130 gets mildly concerned about its survival.
Does the weak link always do its job?
What's its job, George? You need to understand the difference between the pilot/release combo and the weak link.
Nope.
Bullshit. Its job is to blow at its breaking strength. It will ALWAYS do that.
YOUR job is to ignore all the bullshit you've learned from Donnell, Dennis, Bill, the assholes at Quest, Wallaby, Florida Ridge, Lookout, Ridgely, Whitewater, Hang Glide Chicago, Adventure Air, Cowboy Up, You-Name-It Flight Park... determine an appropriate breaking strength for YOUR GLIDER, and acquire something that'll get you within a hundred pounds of your target.
On the other hand, making it too weak is a danger too.
Define "TOO WEAK". We really need to start hearing less about Quest and more about Gs at this point.
The key is to minimize risks. A reasonable weak link does that.
- Bullshit. You minimize risks by keeping the glider pointed in something approaching the right direction while on tow and CHOOSING to get off when being on is no longer in your best interest.
- A light, "REASONABLE", or heavy weak link may or may not do that. And the weak link on your glider or the air bag on your steering wheel blowing is a REAL good indication that you've done a shit job of minimizing risks.
- Define "REASONABLE".
Different forms of towing use different strengths.
Why? Does a glider fold up under fewer G's when aerotowed than when it's platform launched?
And tandems need stronger ones regardless, because the tow forces are higher.
But all solos should use the same one 'cause nobody's talking about Gs or pounds, right?
There are some folks who tow with very strong weak links. They are asking for trouble, IMO.
- Yeah, since we're not talking Gs, pounds, standards, or anything remotely resembling reality and are instead doing:
-- too far off-line
-- stronger than you can control
-- too strong for the pilot to overcome
-- too weak
-- reasonable
-- seldom
-- usually
-- should
-- different
-- stronger ones regardless
-- tow forces are higher
-- very strong
we can make this issue all about your OPINION - just like hang gliding has always operated with respect to weak links in particular and tow equipment in general.
- Who are these folk towing with "very strong weak links" - whatever the hell those are?
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links
Jim Rooney - 2007/07/22 22:30:28 UTC
I've heard it a million times before from comp pilots insisting on towing with even doubled up weaklinks (some want no weaklink). I tell them the same thing I'm telling you... suck it up. You're not the only one on the line. I didn't ask to be a test pilot. I can live with your inconvenience.
http://ozreport.com/9.011
2005 Worlds
Davis Straub - 2005/01/13
Tom Lanning had four launches, and two broken weaklinks and a broken base tube. He made it just outside the start circle.
Are they clueless reckless Twos or the pilots who have enough intuitive feel for what's going on, think something's wrong with this picture, and are tired of total asshole flight park operators and tug drivers dictating policy?
- You got any data to support your OPINION? Who's actually HAVING trouble?
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=6911
Sunday flying at Florida ridge. -
Axel Banchero - 2008/05/22 04:19:39 UTC
Doc's body wasn't moving and we were shitting our pants until he started talking confused. The first thing I saw was his eye bleeding and swollen the size of an 8 ball. There was sand and dirt inside. Looked like he lost it at first until he could open it a little bit.
Or is this just a nice socially acceptable position to take? (Fly safe - don't go too high or too fast.)
Just as I crossed the treeline.
He was being aerotowed at LMFP when his line released near the end of the LZ.
I had to whip a 180 before I ran out of altitude to do so.
He unsuccessfully tried to recover from the stall and turn around to land.
Then I had an interesting landing, not really having room to turn back into the wind...
He impacted and went unconscious. I happened to be across the LZ with some friends and we ran out to help, but he was out cold.
I've had enough links break when they should to think mine is ok...
- That's great that your magic Quest weak links consistently blow to do your job for you, but sometimes all you need to do is lose the tow at a time not of your choosing ONCE to get really fucked over. So ONCE is WAY too many times. A competent pilot is unlikely to EVER blow a weak link.
OK, I just called LMFP and asked about Zach. Apparently he made a full recovery after his accident and is back flying. He was there a week ago, even! That is a load off...
"Hi, Matt. Joey. Do you know how Zach is doing?"
"Who?"
"Zach. Zach Etheridge."
"Who?"
"Guy who crashed real bad in the LZ late year."
"Can you narrow that down a bit for me?"
"Late August or early September."
"Uhhh... Just a second. Got a call on the other line. I'll get right back to you.
...............
Oh yeah. ZACH!!! Yeah, he's fine. They just took him in for precautionary reasons and released him in under an hour. Looked a lot worse than it was. Great guy. He was here just a week ago. Three hours, five K, thirty miles... You shoulda been here! Great hearing from you, Tony! I'll tell him you said hi. Fly safe."
Jack,
Fuck you.