http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=36170
Weak Links?
WhackityWhack - 2018/09/13 23:38:51 UTC
Thanks for your thoughts. That is the kind of stuff I was looking for.
Well then... You sure went to the RIGHT PLACE. It ain't the worlds largest hang gliding community fer nuthin', ya know.
To a few of your points and my thoughts on each (and I've thought long and hard about all of these):
Time very well spent, dude.
"If you get locked out and accelerated toward the ground" I'm not sure or guaranteed that my weak link is going to break BEFORE I hit the ground so there's that.
Fear not. The Standard Aerotow Weak Link has an extremely long track record. Need one say more?
"A weak link is your 1st line of defense against you or the tug pilot losing control." My 1st line of defense is ME releasing.
Your first line of defense - asshole - is staying on tow while maintaining control of your fuckin' glider and putting air between you and the ground fast. Don't wanna take my word for it?
Tost Flugzeuggerätebau
- Use only the weak links stipulated in your aircraft TCDS or aircraft manual.
- Checking the cable preamble is mandatory according to SBO (German Gliding Operation Regulations); this includes the inspection of weak links.
- Replace the weak link immediately in the case of visible damage.
- We recommend that the weak link insert are replaced after 200 starts: AN INSERT EXCHANGED IN TIME IS ALWAYS SAFER AND CHEAPER THAN AN ABORTED LAUNCH.
- Always use the protective steel sleeve.
My 2nd line of defense, in my mind, is the tug pilot giving me the rope.
Yeah... What's the worst...
Bill Bryden - 1999/06
Rob Richardson, a dedicated instructor, died in an aerotowing accident February 27, 1999 at his flight park in Arizona. He was conducting an instructional tandem aerotow flight and was in the process of launching from a ground launch vehicle when the accident occurred.
Rob had started to launch once but a premature tow line release terminated this effort after only a few meters into the launch roll-out. It is suspected the cart was rolled backwards a bit and the tow line was reattached to begin the launch process again. During the tug's roll-out for the second launch attempt, the tug pilot observed the glider clear the runway dust and then begin a left bank with no immediate correction. At that point he noticed that the launch cart was hanging below the glider and immediately released his end of the 240 ft. tow line. The tug never left the ground and tug pilot watched the glider continue a hard bank to the left achieving an altitude of approximately 25 feet. Impact was on the left wing and then the nose of the glider. Rob was killed immediately from severe neck and head trauma. Rob's body likely cushioned much of the student's impact. She was basically uninjured but suffered short term memory loss (not uncommon in hard crashes) and did not recall the events of the accident.
...that could happen? And remember:
Towing Aloft - 1998/01
Pro Tip: Always thank the tug pilot for intentionally releasing you, even if you feel you could have ridden it out. He should be given a vote of confidence that he made a good decision in the interest of your safety.
When I was using a weak link, during climb out I would always think, "where will I go if it breaks now?"
My best guess? Down. And the lower you get the less distance you'll have to fall. That's why the weak link is the focal point of a safe towing system.
Now I keep thinking, "my 1st move is to my release".
Did you ever think about equipping yourself with a release that doesn't require you to move to it? Just kidding, dickhead.
I do like your point about if you need to make a sudden turn away from the trees...
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question
Jim Rooney - 2008/11/22 22:31:35 UTC
BTW, this weaklink as a lifeline comment... any tow pilot that takes you over something you can't get out from should be shot. It is one of the cardinal rules of towing. Again, "I wana believe" rationalization.
...and didn't have time to release.
Which tends to be about four seconds for Industry Standard releases. Anything over five and they flunk the certification.
Ever wonder why ya never hear much from tug drivers about moving to releases and times involved?
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7509/15659143120_a9aae8f7bd_o.jpg
But Would the weak link break fast enough to help me there? I don't know.
Of course they would.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up
Ryan Voight - 2009/11/02 23:55:05 UTC
Ummm... If you're holding that much pitch pressure, popping the weaklink and flying away should be easy as blaming a fart on the dog
Ryan Voight - 2009/11/03 05:24:31 UTC
It works best in a lockout situation... if you're banked away from the tug and have the bar back by your belly button... let it out. Glider will pitch up, break weaklink, and you fly away.
During a "normal" tow you could always turn away from the tug and push out to break the weaklink... but why would you?
Have you never pondered what you would do in a situation where you CAN'T LET GO to release? I'd purposefully break the weaklink, as described above. Instant hands free release
Instantly. (You really need to check the solid opinions of the most highly experienced and respected instructors in the archives before you start trying to reinvent perfectly good wheels.)
I will have to discuss this with some of our tow pilots and get their thoughts.
- Since the Lockout Mountain Flight Park instructors who trained and certified me all totally suck.
- Ever wonder why you're not hearing from any tow pilots - not to mention instructors - in any of these discussions?
I may switch back to using it but I don't like the idea of an unintentional break low just climbing out of the field.
- Yep. All or nuthin'. What more can one possibly do?
- Why? It's a fundamental and unquestioned law of Newtonian physics that inconvenience is the worst possible consequence of a weak link success - assuming the pilot isn't a total douchebag who fails to perform as he was trained during tandem tows in smooth air at two thousand feet, of course.
We don't have loads of open fields where we tow either so it can be a bigger deal if you're dropped off the line early.
Yep...
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Not much in the way of margin for error at that place.
Ian Brubaker - 2018/09/14 00:10:35 UTC
You're right, releasing and trying to cut away is the first thing that you should try to do.
Yep. And anybody suggesting otherwise for any conceivable situation is just...
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links
Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 19:49:30 UTC
It's more of this crappy argument that being on tow is somehow safer than being off tow.
...making more of this crappy argument that being on tow is somehow safer than being off tow. (Can't really understand why anyone who's been properly trained and certified as an AT pilot would even consider making such an obviously crappy argument. Go figure.)
I would consider that as more of an offense, rather than a defense, though.
Well won't that depend a lot on field position and what down it is?
A weak link breaking means things have to be pretty bad already...
Yeah. Because if a weak link were to break when everything was going fine...
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...it wouldn't increase the safety of the towing operation - which is how we define the weak link. It would be something more akin to a line failure.
...and it's a passive system in the event that I can't cut loose in time.
It's a goddam structural overload protector - you stupid shit-headed Jack Show pigfucker.
One thought I had was while reading this was "If a weak link is breaking on normal takeoff, then why wouldn't it break in a lockout?"
I dunno? 'Cause there's pretty much zilch in the way relationship between towline tension and out-of-control tow situations?
Not sure if those guys that have had it break were getting more flights out of it than usual...
Yeah, if you go eleven on a Standard Aerotow Weak Link you're really asking for inconvenience.
...but that doesn't add up for me.
I think we have a budding replacement for Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney here!
And like I said, it's as much as a fail safe for the tow pilot as it is for you.
Right. It's common knowledge that tow pilots pulling tandems with doubled Standard Aerotow Weak Links are twice as likely to die as they are when pulling solos with single loops. That's just first grade level arithmetic and simple common sense.
Consider the same situation taking off and flying low over trees.
Fer sure. Can't think of a much better solution for cleaning the Standard Aerotow Weak Linkers out of the gene pool. (Anybody heard anything from Doc Soc lately?)
You get too low on tow and the glider stalls from the prop wash into the trees.
A very common scenario at mainstream tow parks.
Now the tug pilot is probably going to get pulled into the trees right with you unless he is quick to his guillotine release.
You're good with that, right Jack? It's only the non totally moronic stuff that's a threat to Jack's Living Room civility.
I like discussions such as this as well...
I never had the slightest fuckin' doubt.
...makes me come up with a proper reason for my own thoughts.
It sure is a good thing that aviation has the benefit of intellects of your quality to get complex issues like this one properly sorted out.
Personally, I hate aerotowing hang gliders.
If I were as off-the-scale shit brained as you are I'd hate walking while chewing gum.
It's one thing for sailplanes, but doing the same thing with half the control authority and my face 3 feet closer to the ground, eeeeeehhhhh only if there's no other option to get in the air.
Like accelerating upright on foot off of a rocky mountain slope in switchy thermal conditions. What's the worst that could happen. As in most things in life, simplest works best. How tragic it is that all the major competitions are AT launched in Florida, Texas, Arizona, Australia with perfectly good mountain sites going to waste.
I want all the odds in my favor if I do it then.
Can't go wrong with the safest weak link with the longest track record in the history of the sport.
To me that means: no zipping up on takeoff and one foot ready to pop out at a moment's notice, flying at least with some skids in case of a belly/ botched landing...
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27086
Steve Pearson on landings
Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05 UTC
I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.
...having plenty of energy before releasing from the cart...
Well yeah, but certainly nothing to...
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3661
Flying the 914 Dragonfly
Jim Rooney - 2008/12/06 20:01:49 UTC
You will only ever need full throttle for the first fifty feet of a tandem tow. Don't ever pull a solo at full throttle... they will not be able to climb with you. You can tow them at 28 mph and you'll still leave them in the dust... they just won't be able to climb with you... weak links will go left and right.
...get too close to the limit determined by the focal point of your safe towing system.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Davis Straub - 2011/08/26 14:04:52 UTC
We had six weaklink breaks in a row at Zapata this year. Russell Brown (tug pilot, tug owner, Quest Air owner) said go ahead and double up (four strands of Cortland Greenspot). He knows I used his Zapata weaklink in Big Spring (pilots were asked to tell the tug pilot if they were doing that).
...having a proper weak link installed...
No, an APPROPRIATE one. Read all the comp rules and what Wills Wing has to say on the subject. PROPER weak links are what the sailplane guys use and they:
- have tested and known capacities
- vary in proportion to the gliders' max certified operating weights
- are:
-- specified by the manufacturer
-- used to protect your aircraft against overloading
-- installed between the towline and plane where they can't get taken out of the equation by bridle wraps
- never break in situations that aren't totally tits up due to the utter incompetence of one or two of the pilots involved
- aren't expected to turn tits up situations into safe ones at low altitudes
NEVER use a PROPER one on a hang glider. Just look what happened to Jeff Bohl at Quest on 2016/05/21 if you don't believe me.
...and flying with a tethered hook knife in my mouth ready to go. Okay, maybe the hook knife thing is a little overkill, but come on it looks badass
.
Instead of like a total faggot like:
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or:
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Ian Brubaker - 2018/09/14 01:43:00 UTC
Just to clarify, I meant "you have to be in a pretty bad situation" not "you have to be pretty bad."
Nah, there was really nothing in the way of clarity issues in any of these well thought out positions of yours. Note that not one single member in good standing of the worlds largest hang gliding community has taken the slightest issue with anything you've stated.
Still no hints of mentions of:
- what the weak link under discussion actually is or tying it so that the knot is hidden from the main tension in the link and excluded altogether from the equation
- release flavors
- bridle configurations
in the worlds largest hang gliding community.
It's a quantity/quality tradeoff thing, Jack. Given the sordid history and political dynamics of the sport there's no way in hell you can have both so you have to pick one. And we all know how you've picked - consistently with your character - and we can all see the inevitable results.
That way when a weak link breaks on you, ITS A NON-ISSUE. Genius huh??? 
