Skyting demolition

[Steve Davy]

Thanks for the update, Tad.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed, and hoping you can get through this quickly.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31747
Lockout

Brian Scharp - 2014/09/02 23:54:47 UTC

I use a stronger weak link for the simple reason that low level weak link breaks are dangerous as the glider may not recover from the probable ensuing stall prior to hitting the ground.

This being said it is still far preferable to use low tow tension, headwind launch, and a standard weak link.

Does that mean the danger stated no longer exists when towing with low tension into the wind?

OBVIOUSLY. What Doc MEANT to say was that he uses a stronger weak link when towing with high tension downwind. Seems a bit counterintuitive because one would think that an extra effective bacon saver would be just the ticket for such a situation but these guys are professionals and you need to trust what they say.

Mike Lake - 2014/09/03 09:26:54 UTC

Davis Straub - 2014/09/02 01:36:33 UTC

The article was written in April, 1999.

I am curious to why you posted the above. Is it relevant or is it just for completeness?

It's a code. If you divide the sum of the digits in the year by the number of the month you get seven - the lucky number. It indicates that whether you use a one and a half G weak link for towing high tension downwind or a standard weak link for low tension upwind you should wind up in good shape.

Davis Straub - 2014/09/03 11:49:21 UTC

Just to point out that all this has been discussed for a long time.

So much more intellectually stimulating than in sailplaning in the entire discussion in the entire history of the sport has been:

Tost Flugzeuggerätebau

Weak links protect your aircraft against overloading.

Mike Badley - 2014/09/03 16:13:30 UTC

Davis,
I know you feel frustrated that the mechanics of towing have been well understood for years.

Bulls-eye, dude. Makes it increasingly difficult for him to keep running his scams.

I still think it very worthwhile to continue discussing the issues. Gear changes, operations change and pilots change...

Yeah, if you hopped twenty years back in time you wouldn't recognize the towing scene as being from the same planet.

...so there's a continued need to rehash the known, experiment some, and possibly relearn some lessons already learned.

Always a student...

Certainly, grizzled old tow operators and pilots are not to be found at every tow operation.

Isn't that why we have the excellent book, Towing Aloft, by Dennis Pagen and Bill Bryden? It's a compilation of the wisdom of all the grizzled old tow operators and pilots.

Keep at it - and keep preaching the good stuff!

Like:

Davis Straub - 2014/08/29 17:26:54 UTC

I thought that I had made it clear that I want weaklinks and I want weaklinks to break to save the pilot's bacon.

Your advice and knowledge is well received out there amongst the congregation. Individuals with functional brains, not so much.

Davis Straub - 2014/09/03 18:34:44 UTC

Only the troll is frustrating.

You mean the troll who asked you:

michael170 - 2014/09/02 06:20:35 UTC

Davis Straub - 2014/09/01 20:34:14 UTC

http://ozreport.com/3.050
Aerotowing in Australia

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31717
Weak link?

Davis Straub - 2014/08/20 13:47:27 UTC

I suggest reading Jim Rooney's posts.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 08:34:12 UTC

Yeah, I've read that drivel before.
It's a load of shit.

Jim Rooney says it's a load of shit. So why are you posting a load of shit here, Davis?

Guess you're not gonna answer that question 'cause that would be feeding the troll. And that's considered poor form - 'specially when you're preaching the good stuff to the congregation.

Mike Lake - 2014/09/03 19:51:30 UTC

Are you referring to me old boy?

Nah, he doesn't have the clout to get away with that on The Jack Show. So see if you can get him to answer the troll's question.

Medical update...

Had arranged for a ride to the clinic for this morning but as dawn approached I started realizing I wasn't gonna need it. As I started driving myself in I was feeling so functional that I considered turning around.

Major improvement over the wee hours. Looks like I've got the fever, loss of appetite, weakness stuff behind me. My doctor checked me out and we decided to wait and see before going to chest x-ray and antibiotics.

Serious lungs congestion issue seems to be diminishing.

Thanks for the well wishes.

[Steve Davy]

What a relief it is to get some good news! Talk about a totally depressing few days this has been.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31747
Lockout

Davis Straub - 2014/09/03 20:51:02 UTC

No. You are honestly trying to find an answer.

Right. A troll is somebody who already KNOWS the answer and is just asking rhetorical stuff to expose you as a fraud to as many clueless idiots as possible.

(Mike DOES know the answer and DOES know that you're a fraud, by the way...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31383
Enough of this.

Davis Straub - 2013/03/12 18:32:37 UTC

Okay, folks, this forum us beginning to turn into a cesspool.
Stop it now or I start kicking people out of here.

As you bloody perfectly well know.)

michael170 - 2014/09/05 06:25:40 UTC

Oh look! Another bacon saver in action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjncKQ02FJ8


Lucky chap to have his bacon saved, and also benefiting from another opportunity to perfect his landing skills.

I just do not understand why more folk don't get into this wonderful sport.

2014/09/05 08:37:59 UTC - Sink This! -- Paul Hurless

Yeah michael. That student let his nose get too high and the Davis Link did what was necessary to keep the situation under control. Bet he won't be making THAT mistake again.

Experienced some major aftershocks subsequent to my jaunt to the doc's - fever, long paralyzing headaches - and I'm still in pretty crappy shape with a serious cough but this is nirvana compared to that long dark stretch. That's the worst shape I've been in since the cancer trip in '83 - and this didn't feel all that far behind. (Still, if you're ever offered a choice between chemo nausea and just about anything else...)

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31747
Lockout

michael170 - 2014/09/06 06:35:33 UTC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WtDFymXlPU


I wonder if Jenn decided to pursue hang gliding, and thus growing the sport, after experiencing the joy of having her bacon saved?

2014/09/06 08:22:33 UTC - Sink This! -- Paul Hurless

AndRand - 2014/09/06 14:14:26 UTC

I think, Michael170, you have to comprehend one thing...

I think, And, anything of any use you understand michael understands better.

...in terms of aviation, each and every landing in soaring...

I didn't see anything going on in the way of aviation, landing, or soaring.

...is of emergency kind (you can't go around and continue the flight).

That makes it an emergency? All hang glider, paraglider, parachute, sailplane, Space Shuttle landings are emergency landings? And conventional powered aircraft don't get an unlimited number of shots, ya know.

Therefore "saving your bacon" is part of the experience, so ability to "save your bacon" it's a required skill.

Sorry, And. I have zero interest in any of this "bacon saving" bullshit or its disciples. When *I* fly my purpose is to execute a flight plan - launch, climb to a predetermined altitude, work aforementioned lift as efficiently as possible, land where I want. If "saving your bacon" is part of the experience you're a fuckup and shouldn't be flying.

FAA Glider Flying Handbook

Aerotow Abnormal and Emergency Procedures

Mechanical equipment failure, environmental factors, and pilot error can cause abnormal aerotow occurrences during climb-out. Mechanical equipment failures can be caused by towline and towhook failures, towplane mechanical failures, and glider mechanical failures. Towline failure (one that breaks unexpectedly) can result from using a weak or worn towline. Towline failures can be avoided by using appropriately rated towline material, weak links when necessary, proper tow rings, and proper towline maintenance.

Towing Failures

Premature terminations of the tow have been a leading cause of glider accidents and incidents according to the Soaring Safety Foundation. Extension of spoilers/dive brakes, unlocked canopies, and other distractions are major causes of the tow failure incidents leading to a towline break. Prevention is achieved with the proper use checklists and proper prelaunch discipline. There are five planning situations regarding inmotion towline breaks, uncommanded release, or power loss of the towplane and are listed below. While the best course of action depends on many variables, such as runway length, airport environment, density altitude, and wind, all tow failures or emergency release have one thing in common: the need to maintain control of the glider. Two possibilities are stalling the glider or dragging a wingtip on the ground during a low altitude turn.

See how it works in REAL aviation? REAL pilots don't REACT to towline break EMERGENCIES...

13-10410
http://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2910/13891037280_0d42b84bbf_o.png


...they prevent them.

Brad Barkley - 2014/09/06 14:34:43 UTC

Go back to your hole in the ground, Tad-lette.

http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/HG_ORG_Mission_Statement
HG ORG Mission Statement - Hang Gliding Wiki

- To provide a friendly and positive, approachable community for people interested in the sport of HG
- To provide a friendly community for Hang Glider pilots to hang out and discuss hang gliding
- To provide online resources to potential pilots and hang glider pilots

Fuck you - Jack, Paul, Brad, everybody over there who lets these douchebags get away with shit like this.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31747
Lockout

Davis Straub - 2014/09/06 23:27:55 UTC

Ah, there's that ignore button.

How odd that the douchebags with their heads the farthest up their asses are always the ones most in need of ignore buttons. You keep going ahead and ignoring us - along with grade school arithmetic - Davis. And we'll keep doing just the opposite with respect to you. Time is on our side and we WILL continue to get really great videos of bacon savers in action.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31747
Lockout

michael170 - 2014/09/07 05:09:50 UTC

This guy's bacon saver is obviously a bit too strong:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTKIAvqd7GI


Yikes! That one could have ended badly.

22-2907
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7345/14077539605_d356a1f6fd_o.png

2014/09/07 05:40:58 UTC - Sink This! -- Paul Hurless

Poor Paul, he's obviously had a serious stroke and been reduced to drooling and clicking the "Sink This!" button whenever he notices that michael has posted something reflecting a reality that doesn't fit within his religious model.

AndRand - 2014/09/07 07:01:18 UTC

Brad Barkley - 2014/09/06 14:34:43 UTC

Go back to your hole in the ground, Tad-lette.

...du fromage?

Sure. Why not? I can ALWAYS use ANY advertising.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=16265
weaklinks

Kinsley Sykes - 2010/03/18 19:42:19 UTC

In the old threads there was a lot of info from a guy named Tad. Tad had a very strong opinion on weak link strength and it was a lot higher than most folks care for. I'd focus carefully on what folks who tow a lot have to say. Or Jim Rooney who is an excellent tug pilot. I tow with the "park provided" weak links. I think they are 130 pound Greenspot.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31717
Weak link?

Davis Straub - 2014/08/20 19:48:26 UTC

Many of us are now using 200 lb test line from Cortland.

michael170 - 2014/09/07 07:31:21 UTC

AndRand - 2014/09/06 14:14:26 UTC

I think, Michael170, you have to comprehend one thing - in terms of aviation, each and every landing in soaring is of emergency kind (you can't go around and continue the flight). Therefore "saving your bacon" is part of the experience, so ability to "save your bacon" it's a required skill.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30199
Incident - 2013/06/16

AndRand - 2013/10/27 22:32:44 UTC

Here in PL, there was similar accident couple of years ago. During tow launch pilot was on steep up course when bridle broke. The glider slipped backwards down on the keel from about 20-30ft.
I dont want to discuss details or consider what could be or shouldnt have been done, but it wasnt case of Next Set of Tubes.
It was fatal.

So why didn't this pilot on a steep up course when the bridle broke from about 20-30 ft. have the required skill he needed in order to keep himself alive?

AndRand - 2014/09/07 10:48:23 UTC

The glider slipped backwards down on the keel from about 20-30ft.

What's your point? That the consequences of a bacon saver kicking in...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Paul Tjaden - 2013/02/07

The tow aircraft was a Moyes Dragonfly with a 914 Rotax engine and was piloted by a highly experienced tow pilot. The tow line was approximately 250 feet long which is standard and Zach was using the "pro tow" method where the tow line is attached directly to a bridle on the pilot's harness and is not attached to the glider at all. A standard 130 pound test weak link was being used.

The launch started on the main runway at the north end (2,000 feet long) and was normal until at approximately 50 feet in altitude when the tow plane hit extremely strong lift elevating it quickly and abruptly. Because of the length of the tow line, it was a few seconds later when Zach's glider entered the same strong lift and he was at an estimated 100 to 150 feet in altitude at this time. When the lift/turbulence was encountered, the weak link on the tow line broke as the nose of the glider pitched up quickly to a very high angle of attack. Apparently, the glider stalled or possibly did a short tail slide and then stalled and then nosed down and tumbled.

...can extend beyond inconvenience?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg


Bullshit.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31747
Lockout

Brian Scharp - 2014/09/07 21:53:37 UTC

Got any video of "pushing out hard to force a breakage to experience the effect(s)"?

You mean the Voight/Rooney Instant Hands Free Release?

Hang Glider Lock-Out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnrh9-pOiq4
MorphFX - 2011/03/20
A hang glider pilot learning to aerotow starts a mild PIO that leads into a lock-out.
dead
02-00319
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7523/15601000807_705ab49977_o.png


http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5606/15600335029_3c234e6828_o.png
14-03708
http://www.kitestrings.org/post6995.html#p6995

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9Ek9_lFeSII/UZ4KuB0MUSI/AAAAAAAAGyU/eWfhGo4QeqY/s1024/GOPR5278.JPG

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Xh_NfnOcUns/UZ4Lm0HvXnI/AAAAAAAAGyk/0PlgrHfc__M/s1024/GOPR5279.JPG

Nah, nobody's stupid enough to actually do that in real life.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31747
Lockout

michael170 - 2014/09/08 06:15:32 UTC

AndRand - 2013/10/27 22:32:44 UTC

The glider slipped backwards down on the keel from about 20-30ft.

Oh, so it was the glider's fault that it slipped backwards down on the keel from about 20 - 30 ft. and thus killing the pilot.

What was the make and model of that glider?

It was the pilot's fault. All he had to do was push the ignore button but he just froze.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31747
Lockout

Dennis Wood - 2014/09/08 14:29:21 UTC
Suffolk, Virginia

To Michael170: please send pictures and information of your bridle and weaklink (if any). i'm anxious to see what you use personally and consider safer than what i use. trying to learn from all the experts

- It's just like THIS:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8394/8696380718_787dbc0005_o.png


It's obviously just fine 'cause it's got an enormously long track record, nobody's ever had a problem with it that's contributed to a crash, and no advisory has been issued in the span of the nineteen plus months since your buddy / Currituck colleague Zack Marzec was killed on it.

- Show us what YOU use, motherfucker. Tell us:
-- why it's better than anything else you've previously considered
-- what:
--- glider model and size you're flying
--- what you're using for a weak link, how it translates to towline tension, and what your expectations of it are

- Why aren't you asking Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney?

- What's an "expert"? Tell me something about towing that can be understood by an "expert" that can't be thoroughly understood by a junior high kid who's never been near a glider.

- What makes you think michael's an "expert"? Can you quote me something in which he's claimed to be one?

- Do you only listen to "experts"? Can you give us a list of names that make your cut?

- How come you're not asking And for a description of the tow setup that got his guy killed? Isn't knowing what NOT to do every bit as important as knowing what TO do?

- Any comment on this recent trend of using substantially more dangerous weak links for the sole purpose of decreasing the inconvenience of the towing operation? We had a proven system that worked with a track record of quite literally hundreds of thousands of tows and now we're scrapping it just to give us reasonable shots at soaring windows? What's this world coming to? Sure isn't much like the one I knew.

Go ahead, peanuts, keep writing stuff. The only moves you have available are backwards and down.