Video

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
Steve Davy
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Re: Video

Post by Steve Davy »

Steve Davy
Posts: 1338
Joined: 2011/07/18 10:37:38 UTC

Re: Video

Post by Steve Davy »

Chimpanzee vs. Human.

Chimpanzee vs. Human child learning (1/2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIAoJsS9Ix8
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Chimpanzee vs. Human child learning (2-2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHuagL7x5Wc
dead
Steve Davy
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Re: Video

Post by Steve Davy »

Hang check - Fail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwqah1tykmu
aborted launch
CALHGS - 2011/10/04
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Steve Davy
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Re: Video

Post by Steve Davy »

Steve Davy
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Re: Video

Post by Steve Davy »

User avatar
Tad Eareckson
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Re: Video

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Yeah, almost certainly.
- You can see the retrieval chute pulling away.
- His hands don't move on or from the downtubes.
- He'd have had to have been out of his mind to have deliberately released when he was pitched up and climbing like that.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links
Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01

Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.

It's more of this crappy argument that being on tow is somehow safer than being off tow.
Good thing the weak link blew and eliminated any possibility of a lockout.
That guy WAS screwing the pooch a bit and was in over his head but the weak link was dangerously understrength.
And the clip also makes another good case for using a launch dolly and flying prone.
...
Donnell Hewett - 1981/04

WEAK LINK

Every tension limiting device discussed up to now consists of mechanical components, has a limited range, or relies upon human operation. Every one of these tension limiting devices is subject to failure. Please correct me if I am wrong, but it is also my understanding that there are a large number of tow pilots today who are depending upon smooth air, rope stretch, boat speed, mechanical devices, and ground crews to provide the tension limitation control for their flights. Well, in the author's opinion that is just not good enough. Skyting requires the use of an infallible weak link to place an absolute upper limit to the towline tension in the unlikely event that everything else fails.

Now I've heard the argument that "Weak links always break at the worst possible time, when the glider is climbing hard in a near stall situation," and that "More people have been injured because of a weak link than saved by one." Well, I for one have been saved by a weak link and would not even consider towing without one. I want to know without a doubt (1) when I am pushing too hard, and (2) what will break when I push too hard, and (3) that no other damage need result because I push too hard.

Furthermore, I will not use a mechanical weak link no matter how elaborate or expensive because there is always the possibility that it may fail to operate properly. In skyting we use a simple and inexpensive strand of nylon fishing line which breaks at the desired tension limit. There is no possible way for it to jam and fail to release when the maximum tension is exceeded. Sure, it may get weaker through aging or wear and break too soon, but it cannot get stronger and fail to break. If it does break too soon, so what? We simply replace it with a fresh one.

A properly designed weak link must be strong enough to permit a good rate of climb without breaking, and it must be weak enough to break before the glider gets out of control, stalls, or collapses. Since our glider flies level with a 50 pound pull, climbs at about 500 fpm with a 130 pound pull, and retains sufficient control to prevent stalling if a weak link breaks at 200 pounds pull, we selected that value. Of course, a pilot could deliberately produce a stalled break at 200 lbs, just as he can stall a glider in free flight. But if he is trying to limit his climb rate and the forces exceed the break limit, the glider simply drops its nose to the free flight attitude and continues flying. If the weak link breaks (or should the towline break) at less than the 200 pound value, the effect is even less dramatic and controlled flight is still present.
Yeah Donnell, use a little piece of fishing line to make the decision for the pilot and driver.

Make it weak enough to break before the glider gets out of control. It did that JUST FINE.

And the glider DID drop its nose to free flight attitude. And it WOULD HAVE continued flying - IF it had been high enough.

So just ignore the ARGUMENTS that "Weak links always break at the worst possible time, when the glider is climbing hard in a near stall situation," and that "More people have been injured because of a weak link than saved by one."

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 04:55:25 UTC

So, argue all you like.
I don't care.
I've been through all these arguments a million times... this is my job.
I could be more political about it, but screw it... I'm not in the mood to put up with tender sensibilities... Some weekend warrior isn't about to inform me about jack sh*t when it comes to towing.
There just ARGUMENTS from people reporting on what's happening. And we wouldn't want any inconvenient evidence, facts, data, logic to get in the way of...
Well, in the author's opinion...
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Jim Rooney - 2011/08/31 09:25:57 UTC

I'll take our opinion over yours any day of the week.
...the author's OPINION.

No, Donnell, he DIDN'T do a good job of limiting his climb rate. But sometimes people DON'T and sometimes people CAN'T. And the weak link DID break at the worst possible time, when the glider was climbing hard in a near stall situation. So that's why you use a release to get you off tow on YOUR DECISION and a weak link ONLY to protect from overload - just like in REAL aviation.
...
Nice find. I'll treasure it.
Steve Davy
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Re: Video

Post by Steve Davy »

That was absolutely terrifying!
Steve Davy
Posts: 1338
Joined: 2011/07/18 10:37:38 UTC

Re: Video

Post by Steve Davy »

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Weak link break. This is ridiculousness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WtDFymXlPU


Edit: Could have been a tow line break.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Video

Post by Tad Eareckson »

That was absolutely terrifying !
Yeah. A bit over thirty years ago he got ONE THING *PARTIALLY* right - taking the tension off the bottom of the control frame and running a portion of it (two thirds is what he used) through the pilot instead.

But damn near EVERYTHING else he got wrong - lots of it completely afterwards. His Skyting "theory" was just a bunch of bogus assumptions based upon bogus vector diagrams and objectives and NOBODY in hang gliding had enough brains to rip the physics and logic to shreds (including - at the time - yours truly).

Screwed up hang gliding - and later paragliding - on a global scale. And that's how come you see threads hundreds of posts long on weak links and tow releases that end up in the good guys getting locked down and banned and the reaffirmation of 130 pound Greenspot.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?
Cragin Shelton - 2011/09/03 23:57:33 UTC

Nice Reference Citation
Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974

"A bad flyer won't hurt a pin man but a bad pin man can kill a flyer." - Bill Bennett
"The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release." - Richard Johnson
Do you REALLY think that there has been no progress in knowledge about the practical applied physics and engineering of hang gliding in 37 years? OR that an early, 3+ decade old, information book written by a non-pilot is a solid reference when you have multiple high experience current instructors involved in the discussion?
This is the great progress in knowledge about the practical applied physics and engineering of hang gliding total assholes like Cragin and multiple high experience current instructors involved in the discussions are talking about - although they're all too stupid to understand the history of how we got where we are.

Donnell isn't an evil, stupid, lying little shit like Rooney but he's always been pretty oblivious to reality, science, and common sense approaches and solutions.
Weak link break. This is ridiculousness.
I can't tell if that's a pop or an auto release - but probably the former.

The tow ring (quick link) appears to stay with the towline.

Looks like the weak link is immediately downwind of the three-string release - which is a stupid way to do things.

I'm guessing that that sloppy tangle of leechline serves to pull the pin and retain the three-string if the weak link blows.

But, what the hell, either way...
Richard Johnson - 1974

The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release.
Donnell Hewett - 1981/04

Of course, a pilot could deliberately produce a stalled break at 200 lbs, just as he can stall a glider in free flight. But if he is trying to limit his climb rate and the forces exceed the break limit, the glider simply drops its nose to the free flight attitude and continues flying. If the weak link breaks (or should the towline break) at less than the 200 pound value, the effect is even less dramatic and controlled flight is still present.
Yeah Cragin, really great progress in knowledge about the practical applied physics and engineering of hang gliding. Can't wait to see what the future brings.

Keep finding gems like these.

P.S. The engineering required to keep a glider ON tow when you want it to be is a LOT easier and cheaper than the engineering required to blow it OFF tow when you want it to be.
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