Sorry, people of varying ages. Blast from the past - right around an even decade ago. Still really pisses me off 'cause of the:
- blatant lies and attacks on my character from Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney
- participation of the Capitol and Maryland Clubs douchebags who let him get away with that crap
- forum "moderator" who went with the flow
- local guys with reasonable levels of intelligence who didn't have the integrity to wade in and give me covering fire
- shit aerotow operation that:
-- came to town
-- created and empowered Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney and turned him loose
-- took over the airport and acted like they owned it (until new management moved in and helped finish them off)
- tongue biting I did because I was dependent upon the local monopoly for airtime
Consider sticking with this. Some of it's kinda fun.
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2871
speed link
JD Guillemette - 2008/01/29 17:52:12 UTC
Tad,
I have only had two failures to separate from the tow line. One was at Highland, after a successful tow and primary release, the bridle looped it's self on to the carabineer at the end of the tow line. No problem just pulled my "Bailey" on the shoulder and I was off. That was not a release failure and it could happen to your rig. I even got may bridle back because the ground crew had to untangle it from the carabineer for the next customer.
The second time was at Quest. I was towing off the shoulders only. I have two "Bailey" releases, one on each shoulder. At each end of the bridle I had a wink link attached to the releases. Although identical, I consider my right release to be primary and the left one to be back up. I set up the primary release for a tow. I actually remember doing it now, but I put the weak link loop on the back side of the release hook (convex side), hinged the curve pin back between the loop lines of the release, and slid the sleeve over it. When I went to release, the pin had to rotate backwards (point first) to dump the line. It just managed NOT to split the loop lines of the release and hooked.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8323186050/
I could see exactly what happened about a foot in front of my face. I had time and altitude. I tried to unhook the curve pin, but with my gloves and tow forces I could not. So, I just pulled the other release and separated from tow. When the bridle whipped back the snagged primary came loose and fell away ... too bad I lost my bridle. That was operator error and I believe your shoulder (single point) tow system has the same type of release and could be set up to fail in the same way. Even if straight pins are used the same situation can happen except in either rotation directions ... yes I have tested it.
After an uneventful flight I discussed what happened with Lisa Kane. We came to a few conclusions.
Although I rigged it backwards it was the weak link that caused the problem, the weak link material is so thin that it did not spilt the release loop far enough apart. In fact even if you rig it in the correct direction you can still over rotate the curved pin so far the curved part of the pin can catch the release loops and cause a failure but it is far more unlikely (read deliberately set up that way). And yes with the weak link loop on the bridle you can produce failure with straight pins but with equal probability in either direction.
Another, conclusion was that had it not been for the second release I may still be on tow ... or at least until the Tug ran out of gas ... I know the tug pilot could give me rope. Because the tow force was split between my right (failed) release and the left, the weak link was "seeing" normal tow forces. The weak link would only break if say, the primary release worked and the bridle got caught on the tow line, now the left shoulder tow point and weak link are "seeing" double tow forces and breaks, that's they way it's supposed to work.
A lot of pilots fly with only a release on one shoulder and a weak link on the other shoulder ... that could be a problem if the one release fails to separate, for the reasons I have stated above. But I don't go around twisting people’s arms to look at my release scheme.
What have I learned .... OK ... I choose to use a weak link but only on the backup release side ... and properly rigged. On the primary side I just use a loop in the bridle (no weak link) for the release pin. The diameter of the bridle cord makes it improbable to produce the same failures. In fact even curved pins rigged backwards will release ... but as tow bridle diameter decreases probability of failure increases.
Not all releases a fool proof and 100% effective ... INCLUDNG YOURS. I have seen both your "Double point" and "Single point" releases on many occasions ... and not by my choice. Yes they are clever, but with multiple pulleys or routing within the glider frame work, I find them over complicated and at some time it may fail in a way you never considered because of their complexity. The best solution, at least for me is simple, effective, and backed up.
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2871
speed link
Tad Eareckson - 2008/01/31 12:55:45 UTC
JD,
I normally don't carry a firearm, blackjack, chloroform, handcuffs... (at Ridgely anyway), nor do I twist people's arms, so I'm having just as hard a time understanding how you were subjected to the offensive sights of my release systems against your will as I am comprehending how Jim has been forced to read my posts.
But anyway... apparently you didn't deem them worthy of your time and thought processes and were content to continue using the same stuff everybody else does while I went on flying my system. Consequently, you've had to reach for a secondary release two more times than I have.
Yeah, a two point bridle wrap IS a release failure. It's a built in risk of electing to fly with a two point opening bridle and the frequency with which it manifests itself is dependent upon the quality of the primary bridle (yours wasn't very good) and the tension under which you release. Peter Birren's recommended configuration totally eliminates that possibility (at the expense of some very minor tradeoffs). And the bridle design I implemented last summer probably does (at the expense of a lot of needle and thread time).
Additionally I have an autorelease feature in my system which guarantees that I'll be off tow instantly without having to take any action in the event of a bridle wrap following a weak link break and makes it at least very likely following a normal release.
I'm also wondering if you had a secondary weak link at the time of your wrap 'cause Sunny reports that, on the tandem gliders anyway, its failure is a virtual certainty in such circumstances.
Thank you very much for reporting the Bailey problem you discovered aloft and the related one you discovered on the ground. The latter is definitely the way to do things (like, for instance, simulating an accidental opening of a nonlocking hang glider carabiner (anybody have any success with that yet?)).
I did a little experimentation based on your information and although, yeah, the bigger the diameter the less the likelihood of a lock, I was able disable the Bailey with the pin rotated properly while 5/32 inch line was engaged and backwards with quarter inch. Those are, respectively, 1200 and 2700 pound polyester lines - a bit above what is required at that interface.
Maybe you should have swallowed some anti-nausea medication and taken a little longer look at my stuff 'cause - NO, the malfunction you described actually cannot possibly occur in any of my several variations of barrel release.
The basic design is vulnerable to one flavor of idiot induced defeat but I've made modifications to make that grotesquely counterintuitive procedure something between difficult and impossible. (Flying isn't for everyone and my personal feeling is that someone stupid enough to make that mistake and persistent enough to defeat the safeguards should be in a supervised living situation at all times anyway.)
Obviously you have no interest in improving your reliability and performance over what it is now but anyone is welcome to check out my barrel release designs at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/
in the Secondary Components set and see why it's impossible for them to lock up in the manner described.
The only advantage of the core hardware of your one point system of choice is that it's easily manufactured, i.e. - cheap. They're unnecessarily bulky, prone to accidental release, inefficient, and of marginal strength.
You've dealt with a known danger by compromising another aspect of your safety system - eliminating weak link redundancy. There's absolutely no reason for your (one point) bridle to be long enough to wrap but it's a pretty safe bet that it is. You only have a weak link at your port barrel. You get blasted down low, you're locking out, your weak link fails, and your bridle wraps.
If you had had a starboard weak link as well, you'd be free flying by now because it fails at 140 pounds and would just have been shock loaded at something well in excess of 280. Instead you're still on tow, you no longer have a weak link on your end of the system, your lockout is getting worse, you have a mechanically inefficient release under up to four times as much load as it has ever experienced in the course of your flying career.
Now let's throw in the tug scenario described in Towing Aloft (Page 349) in which its (doubled) weak link breaks but the bridle also wraps - not a huge stretch of the imagination under that kind of loading. Now you're still locked out and the loads on the releases at both ends are limited only by 2000 pound Spectra hollow braid - or whatever breaks first on one of the planes.
Skip the next four paragraphs - you might learn something.
-
Now, for standardization and optimization purposes, let's orient the barrel releases such that the curved pins rotate outboard upon actuation.
So why not just take two minutes and sew together the inboard edges of the release webbing within the range of the pin's eye and end to make it physically impossible to connect by rotating backwards or over-rotating in the proper direction?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8331320702/
Then take two more minutes and do the same thing to your port release.
Then replace your bridle with something too short to wrap and install weak links on both ends.
OK, enough lipstick on that pig. If you wanna see how to do it right - check the pictures.
-
You can come back now. The easy fix is done with.
I hear this "complicated" criticism all the time, invariably from people who don't know what they're looking at and almost exclusively from people who are flying with dangerous crap themselves (case in point). But, strangely, none of them has ever been clever enough to simulate or predict a failure scenario. And, I suspect, you and I may have very different definitions of complexity, simplicity, and effectiveness.
As far as the "backed up" issue is concerned... If my primary actuation action were to fail - I have Plans B, C, D, and E. You stop at B - not counting a hook knife (which I don't 'cause it has no place in an AT discussion). And I have a lot more weak link redundancy than you do.
So you find multiple pulleys and routing within the glider framework overly complicated? I'm sure you do. I put a pulley in the basetube of my old glider, the manufacturer put two in the kingpost (I'll relay your concerns). I just found eight pulleys on a Talon diagram, all of them out of the airflow. I can't tell you how happy I am that Steve Pearson designs gliders and you fly them rather than the other way around.
But who knows? Maybe Steve will take your concerns to heart and the T3 will feature fewer pulleys (who needs mechanical advantage anyway - that stuff is for sissies) and a VG line routed outside of the starboard downtube. Your dream machine. Still too complicated? Hell, eliminate the sprogs - they don't do much most of the time anyway.
Pulleys have been going into aircraft for the past century, all of them out of the airflow whenever possible, and I don't recall hearing of them causing a lot of problems. I do, however, recall that you had an issue with the crap hanging in the breeze on your Falcon control frame.
And, one more issue...
I don't know when you discovered that there was a way to accidentally defeat a Bailey release but:
I'm guessing it wasn't last weekend;
this is the first I've heard of it; and
the only reason I'm hearing of it now is 'cause it happened to come up in conversation.
So - unless I've missed something - you've put about as much effort into publicizing the actual dangers of the popular system as the undefined and totally imaginary ones of mine.
Damn near everybody who aerotows, save for a small percentage who have followed the leads of Peter and yours truly, incorporates a Bailey or two in his system and most of the two point primary releases are shoddy enough so that the secondaries frequently come into play.
So you see lotsa folk with only a release on one shoulder and a weak link on the other. You know - until now more than just about anyone else - that it's possible for the release to lock.
Therefore you also know that if what happened to you happens to them they no longer have any means of releasing.
Hopefully you also know that a person can be dead or beyond the point of survivability before a weak link fails.
So you see dangerous equipment configurations all the time and do NOTHING? So much for the ol' watching out for each other community thing.
Yet another reason I'm more into eliminating the design flaws.
Yeah, it's a tiny matter. 99.99 percent of the time it won't make any difference. And 99.99 percent of the time we don't have problems with hooking in.
But despite the fact that you may find the effort about as effective and rewarding as teaching pigs to sing, maybe you have a social obligation to go around figuratively twisting arms. That way, at least, when someone ends his flying (and walking) career because of a literally twisted neck he will dictate from his hospital bed to his significant other that "This accident could have been prevented with two and a half inches of dental floss. JD tried to tell me that but I didn't listen." Then maybe the next person will.
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2871
speed link
JD Guillemette - 2008/02/06 10:30:54 UTC
Tad,
I may not agree with everything you do ... but you are a clever guy.
From you photos of the Bailey Release, it was not immediately clear what you had done to modify it to make it "fool proof" ... but after a while I did see it. You stitched the back side of the webbing loop that holds the curved pin. Making it nearly impossible to rig it backwards. And now the curved pin when properly rigged goes into the pocket formed and it makes it, again, nearly impossible to over rotate the curved pin to produce a failure.
In fact, without having it in hand, it seems the only way it could be defeated, and someone would have to go a long way to do it, is to rotate the pin backwards on the outside of stitched part and attempt to catch pin on the front side. I suspect that the barrel would not fit over this arrangement. I don't think that anyone capable of doing this should be flying.
Tad had you already modified the Bailey Release or have you modified it in response to post? If so, I regret not posting sooner the in flight failure I experienced in 2005. If you had previously modified the Bailey Release, sham on me for not paying more attention to your release.
I plan to modify and test my releases before I tow with them again.
I may not agree with everything you do, but there are few things that I think are truly brilliant.
Crow doesn't taste as bad as I thought.
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2871
speed link
Jim Rooney - 2008/02/06 23:14:48 UTC
Eat something else... he copied that design.
A properly constructed Bailey has a stop (a rivet) that prevents this from happening.
How do I know this?... I was one of the guys that pointed out the problem to him (and how a Bailey doesn't have this problem).
So credit where credit is due... the "brilliance" here belongs to Bobby.
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2871
speed link
JD Guillemette - 2008/02/07 12:51:57 UTC
Now that I think of it, I'm not sure where I got my "Bailey" releases. I don't think any of them have the rivet. I think the first one that I still have on my I-Tracer harness was given to me by my first Aero-tow instructor. The other two were on my Rotor harness when I bought the harness used. I just assumed that they were Genuine Bailey Releases, but without the rivet they must be imitations.
Although I have not seen a genuine Bailey release, it would seem to me that a rivet is a better solution to the problem, especially when curved pins are used. Bobby Bailey's designs have always impressed me, simple, elegant, and effective designs. It is no surprise to me that Bobby had already resolved the issue.
For these same reasons, It just bothers me when people try to "improve" upon Bobby Bailey's designs ... simply put, the designs are at the maximum of efficiency and safety. So I'm right back to where I was. I see no problem in the way things are currently done and creating overly complicated mouth actuated releases is just a waste of time.
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3035
Tad's Barrel Release and maybe an alternative
Jim Rooney - 2008/02/11 23:09:18 UTC
Here we go, reinventing the wheel again.
Couple erroneous conclusions....
A Bailey release can not be rigged incorrectly. Yours was either a bad copy or an incomplete/defective release. A proper Bailey release has a rivot stop in it that prevents it from being rigged wrong. Yours did not have this.
After arguing this with Tadd, he eventually "fixed" the same "problem" with his barrel release... a "problem" that was already "fixed" in with the Bailey release. Before he added the stop, you could rig his the same way.
So....
Why are we reinventing the wheel again?
What advantage does a straight pin have over a curved pin?
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3035
Tad's Barrel Release and maybe an alternative
Jim Rooney - 2008/02/13 09:06:35 UTC
Selective memory I see.
When you first showed me the straight pin release, I told you I wouldn't touch it because "I had to give instructions on how to use it so that people would not rig it wrong". I showed you how you could rotate the pin sideways and close the barrel... and pointed out how this was not possible on a Bailey release. I told you if you fixed that, then I'd use it.
You modified the release to include a stop.
You made this modified release specifically for me.
Don't tell me your releases had this before then. Oh you had barrel realeases, but they did not have stops... they could be rigged wrong. The Highland boys didn't see a problem since students do not rig them... only we do. I don't agree with this conclusion, but it's not my company.
Oh..... in failing to answer my "what advantage does a straight pin have" question... you attempt to reverse it to "what advantage does a curved pin have".
Well, two things....
One... no one's trying to improve on your design. The bar was set with the Bailey... it is to YOU to "improve", which you have not done.
Two... The advantage of a curved pin... it can handle differing thicknesses of materials. Yours can't. You have a very narrow range and then you run into the problem of that pesky stop. That's why yours have weaklinks on both ends... nice and thin.
Call it insignificant if you will, but YOU are the one that is the incumbent... the onus is on you, not Bobby.
JD Guillemette - 2008/02/06 10:30:54 UTC
Tad,
I may not agree with everything you do ...
- Who asked you to?
- Like WHAT? Please confine your answer to issues relevant to hang gliding.
...but you are a clever guy.
Except when? In what relevant issues do I suddenly and inexplicably become totally fucking clueless?
From you photos of the Bailey Release, it was not immediately clear what you had done to modify it to make it "fool proof" ... but after a while I did see it.
Good.
You stitched the back side of the webbing loop that holds the curved pin. Making it nearly impossible to rig it backwards. And now the curved pin when properly rigged goes into the pocket formed and it makes it, again, nearly impossible to over rotate the curved pin to produce a failure.
Wow. What a clever guy I am.
In fact, without having it in hand, it seems the only way it could be defeated, and someone would have to go a long way to do it, is to rotate the pin backwards on the outside of stitched part and attempt to catch pin on the front side. I suspect that the barrel would not fit over this arrangement.
Good. So now we can ignore the issues of it being easily reachable - and thus totally useless in emergency situations - and nonfunctional under load.
I don't think that anyone capable of doing this should be flying.
I don't think that anyone capable of doing what you did should be flying. Hell, I don't think anybody who doesn't see the massive stupidity of incorporating a bent parachute pin for the core mechanism should be flying.
Tad had you already modified the Bailey Release or have you modified it in response to post?
I got ahold of a Genuine Bailey Release - one of the ones with the rivet - and copied the idea with a line of stitching so I could take credit for Bobby's brilliance and pass myself of as another fucking genius when it comes to this shit.
If so, I regret not posting sooner the in flight failure I experienced in 2005. If you had previously modified the Bailey Release, sham on me for not paying more attention to your release.
- That's OK. The whole fucking sport is founded in and based on shams.
- Guess I wasn't twisting your arm hard enough.
- I don't incorporate bent parachute pins in my equipment.
I plan to modify and test my releases before I tow with them again.
Just make sure not to test them under any loads that make it up to the halfway point of the u$hPa AT equipment SOPs.
I may not agree with everything you do...
Yeah, you said that already. And still you haven't actually cited anything.
...but there are few things that I think are truly brilliant.
Well, I'm not a fucking genius when it comes to this shit so obviously I'm only capable of doing a FEW things truly brilliantly. Best go to Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney for the other 95 percent.
Crow doesn't taste as bad as I thought.
How would you know? You've only had the tiniest morsel.
Jim Rooney - 2008/02/06 23:14:48 UTC
Eat something else... he copied that design.
Eat shit, Jim.
- Bobby doesn't DESIGN releases. He just ripped off the Schweizer sailplane release design that's been around since the beginning of time for the Dragonfly and slaps together whatever crap is readily available for the gliders. He doesn't give a flying fuck about the gliders 'cause he hasn't flown a glider in fifty years. And when he killed a glider behind him as a consequence of one of his shit release "designs"...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8318781297/
...his response was to ground the release from the comp for three days and force everybody to use weak links too light to get them airborne - about a third of what many of us are now happy with.
- I've never in my life copied a glider release design. I've looked at other designs and incorporated some of their elements and improved on them. And the only time I've worked with anything that could be considered original was Steve Kinsley's bite controlled multi-string one point release. And that development is openly and well documented on the Capitol Club rag. And nobody can document one shred of evidence of me copying or developing anything and presenting someone else's ideas as my own. That's the kinda crap you tend to pull once every third post.
And I've never in my life credited someone else's idea as my own - or failed to credit someone else to give the impression that the idea was mine.
A properly constructed Bailey has a stop (a rivet) that prevents this from happening.
- There's no such thing as a properly constructed Bailey. It's a moronic cheap easily reachable bent pin piece of total shit. The last asshole to get killed by one was an airline pilot with a Tad-O-Link as the focal point of his safe towing system behind an unidentified 582 Dragonfly driver at Quest on 2016/05/21.
- "This" doesn't "HAPPEN". Some total fucking moron like JD Guillemette MAKES it happen. I don't design equipment for the kinds of total fucking morons who can't connect brain dead simple release mechanisms 'cause they have no business flying and crudding up the gene pool in the first place.
- A properly constructed Bailey has a stop (a rivet). Right. What kind of total fucking moron would RIVET the webbing halves together instead of just laying down a line of stitching...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8331320702/
...seeing as how ALL of these cheap pieces o' shit are slapped together on sewing machines anyway?
- How was I able to COPY the design when I used stitching while Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey used a rivet? Wouldn't I have had to use a rivet to copy it? And one of them is a better idea. And we all know which one it is 'cause you didn't shoot off your stupid fucking mouth about how far superior the rivet "idea" was.
- Where do you think I was able to get ahold of one of these Genuine Bailey Releases from which I was able to copy Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey's brilliant design. Obviously they're so rare in the Highland Aerosports sphere of influence that I thought I could get away with the plagiarism. It was only my bad luck to have you around to be the only Guardian of the Faith to be able to call me out.
- Sorry Jim. I somehow missed the advisory concerning these dangerous Genuine Bailey Release knockoffs. Ditto apparently for JD. And he WOULD have been killed in a critical situation. Even deader than Jeff Bohl who somehow managed to rig his knockoff properly. So where is it? Any mention in the magazine and/or on the Jack and/or Davis Shows?
How do I know this?... I was one of the guys that pointed out the problem to him (and how a Bailey doesn't have this problem).
- (Just the ones everyone's actually using. Including the ones on the tandem discovery flight gliders.)
- How well I remember. It took four or five of you stupid pin bending motherfuckers - none of whom can be documented to have ever had an original idea in his fucking life - circling and shouting at me to convince me of the extreme danger of my crappy experimental design regarding the kinds of douchebags who fly Highland Aerosports.
Meanwhile, back in reality... Adam asked me to come up with a solution to make it impossible to flip lock:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/14026541561/
the mechanism to accommodate some of the gene pool crud to whom they cater. Cited a product of some other operation coming to Ridgely and trying to connect to a glider by hooking his carabiner into the spinnaker shackle of his two point Quallaby Release. I came up with a solution that didn't make it impossible but did make it a major pain in the ass.
- So how come none of you GUYS went public with your concern? Make sure that all the muppets were aware of this clear and present danger?
So credit where credit is due... the "brilliance" here belongs to Bobby.
- Well then... Let's not forget to credit the fucking douchebags putting these improperly constructed Brilliant Baileys into circulation and not checking for them at the flight lines while they're making sure that the pilots are all using appropriate weak links with finished lengths of 1.5 inches or less.
- Got that, people of varying ages? Punching a rivet through two layers of webbing to prevent a bent parachute pin from being deliberately rotated through is an example of Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey's BRILLIANCE. Total smoking gun slip-up. 99.99 percent of Bobby's brilliance stems from never putting anything down in print - ANYWHERE.
JD Guillemette - 2008/02/07 12:51:57 UTC
Now that I think of it...
Suck my dick, JD. You've never thought of anything in your entire fucking life either.
...I'm not sure where I got my "Bailey" releases.
Probably cheap Chinese knockoffs. The US hang glider aerotow market is flooded with them.
I don't think any of them have the rivet.
Go figure.
I think the first one that I still have on my I-Tracer harness was given to me by my first Aero-tow instructor.
- How come you're naming neither him nor the operation?
- Funny your first aerotow instructor gave you a defective release, dontchya think?
The other two were on my Rotor harness when I bought the harness used.
- Original owner must've been killed because of the defective Baileys. Notice any bloodstains?
- Wow. Bailey Releases from two sources and no riveted Genuine Bailey Releases. Go figure. (Ever wonder how the original owner of your Rotor harness was ever able to get cleared for launch using his dangerous knockoffs?)
I just assumed that they were Genuine Bailey Releases...
The way you're assuming now that this Genuine Bailey Release actually exists somewhere.
...but without the rivet they must be imitations.
- BRILLIANT deduction, Sherlock!
- Any thoughts on who's imitating them and why they're not bothering imitating the rivet? Just kidding.
Although I have not seen a genuine Bailey release...
NOBODY's seen a Genuine Bailey Release. Notice not one of these other Capitol Club assholes has commented on the rivet issue?
...it would seem to me that a rivet is a better solution to the problem...
Better than the stitching I proposed? Then how come Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney wasn't dancing around screaming his fucking head off about how superior Bobby's rivet is to Tadd's stitching?
...especially when curved pins are used.
Yep...
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21033
barrels release without any tension except weight of rope..
Bart Weghorst - 2011/02/25 19:06:26 UTC
But I've had it once where the pin had bent inside the barrel from excessive tow force. My weaklink was still intact. The tug pilot's weaklink broke so I had the rope. I had to use 2 hands to get the pin out of the barrel.
No stress because I was high.
ESPECIALLY when curved pins are used.
Bobby Bailey's designs have always impressed me, simple, elegant, and effective designs.
I'm glad, JD. I'd really hate to see you ever using anything other than Bobby Bailey's designs. If it weren't for Bobby Bailey we'd all still be jumping off windy cliffs with beach umbrellas. (Odd that I don't remember him being in any of the conversations about the lower bridle attachment being moved off the basetube and onto the pilot.)
It is no surprise to me that Bobby had already resolved the issue.
Yeah. He anticipated that one person on the face of the planet would be stupid enough to rig his bent pin piece of shit the way you did. And punched a rivet through two layers of webbing. It would NEVER have occurred to me - a mere plagiarist always plotting to parasitize whatever I could of Bobby's glory - that anybody flying these things would be that stupid. I just assume minimum IQs in the mid double digits range. Pity that all those cheap Chinese knockoffs got into circulation without Bobby saying anything on the issue and you slipped through the cracks anyway.
For these same reasons, It just bothers me when people try to "improve" upon Bobby Bailey's designs ... simply put, the designs are at the maximum of efficiency and safety.
- But of course I hadn't read that sentence before.
- Fuck yeah. And isn't it absolutely ASTOUNDING that a stock M111C Stainless Steel Curved Parachute Pin - the very same piece of hardware we use for our reserve containers - turned out to be the PERFECT size, length, strength, curvature for the other application! And they say there's no God.
- I'd expect nothing less from the only person in the entire recorded history of hang glider aerotowing stupid enough to rig this piece o' crap the way you did. What really bothers me is your brief excursion into:
I may not agree with everything you do ... but you are a clever guy.
So I'm right back to where I was.
I never had the SLIGHTEST doubt you would be.
I see no problem in the way things are currently done and creating overly complicated mouth actuated releases is just a waste of time.
Thus it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be. Amen.
So...
After an uneventful flight I discussed what happened with Lisa Kane. We came to a few conclusions.
How come one of the conclusions that we came to wasn't that this wasn't a Genuine Bailey Release?
(Lisa KAIN had been a Ridgley tuggie for a while in the early years before being asked to seek other career opportunities for being a condescending know-it-all bitch a few too many times. Went down to Quest and on 2006/02/05 pulled John Dullahan (DC area) pro toad into a breaking off monster thermal. Low level lockout, "weak link broke just as I hit the release", right downtube and wrist broke on impact. Paul and Lauren, John Simon present.
Note the site, date, monster thermal. Seven years minus three days prior to Zack Marzec.)
Although I rigged it backwards it was the weak link that caused the problem, the weak link material is so thin...
Wow. The focal point of your safe towing system caused the problem because it was so thin. (Speaking of Zack Marzec (and Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey).) Who'da thunk.
Jim Rooney - 2008/02/11 23:09:18 UTC
Here we go, reinventing the wheel again.
When the square one we have is, simply put, at the maximum of efficiency and safety.
Couple erroneous conclusions....
A Bailey release can not be rigged incorrectly.
What's it matter? We have plenty of fatality reports which show that one jammed prior to launch is no more a liability than a properly rigged one in any...
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3391
More on Zapata and weak link
Paul Tjaden - 2008/07/22 04:32:22 UTC
I have never had a lockout situation happen so quickly and dramatically and had no chance to release as I have always thought I could do.
...critical situation.
Yours was either a bad copy or an incomplete/defective release.
One of the ones that doesn't pass with flying colors the rigorous Flight Park Mafia testing standards that nobody's ever heard of. So who's the source?
How do I know this?... I was one of the guys that pointed out the problem to him (and how a Bailey doesn't have this problem).
What's the point of being one of the guys that pointed out the problem to Tadd (and how a Bailey doesn't have this problem) if the market's so flooded with these bad copies and/or incomplete/defective releases?
A proper Bailey release has a rivot stop...
Yeah Jim. A prepor Bailey release has a rivot step. Can't stress how important it is to get things right in all you do.
...in it that prevents it from being rigged wrong.
- So does a proper pilot. But none of you incompetent Ridgely motherfuckers were never able to turn out any.
- That must've been what happened when you fuckin' dickheads were launching John Claytor on 2014/06/02 in that howling left ninety cross and he locked out off the cart and broke his neck. Non Genuine Bailey Release that could be rigged wrong, Tad-O-Link that didn't break when it was supposed to, tug pilot that didn't fix whatever was going on back there by giving him the rope, Risk Management Committee that didn't manage the risk until just after impact... Just wasn't his day.
Yours did not have this.
Mine never needed one. Couple other things I never needed:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5492/14666057035_1786a4e18c_o.jpg
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5277/30076449505_1f6ed2f804_o.png
08-19
motherfucker. (Well, I did need to be stretchered off ridge south of the original/old Woodstock launch but I was just really badly bruised and I didn't wait until the CAA investigation was complete to publish a full report that left no one wondering about or questioning anything.)
After arguing this with Tadd, he eventually "fixed" the same "problem" with his barrel release... a "problem" that was already "fixed" in with the Bailey release.
Yeah, you guys wore me down. I kept insisting that there was no way some total fucking moron could rig one of my releases to lock but there were enough of you semiliterate total fucking morons arguing with me long enough for me to realize that I'd been dead wrong.
Before he added the stop, you could rig his the same way.
Chad Elchin rigged his new 914 Dragonfly and its ballistic parachute wrong...
...John Simon flew into a Ridgely taxiway sign and broke both arms. What's your fucking point?
So....
Why are we reinventing the wheel again?
Who the fuck is WE? Show me a single invention that came out of anybody at Ridgely in its seventeen season history.
What advantage does a straight pin have over a curved pin?
None whatsoever. Hard to imagine why anybody anywhere is using straight lever arms for anything.
Jim Rooney - 2008/02/13 09:06:35 UTC
Selective memory I see.
When you first showed me the straight pin release, I told you I wouldn't touch it because "I had to give instructions on how to use it so that people would not rig it wrong".
- Bullshit. I'm pretty sure both Ridgely tandems were using my straight pin barrels before you ever oozed your way onto the scene and DEFINITELY long before you became a tug driver and the planet's all time greatest hang gliding instructor. Nothing like that conversation ever took place.
- Oh, perish the thought that a hang gliding instructor should have to give instructions on any hang gliding equipment so stupid people wouldn't rig it wrong. (By the way... How much tandem airtime have you logged dangling from the basetube while diving into the powerlines?)
I showed you how you could rotate the pin sideways and close the barrel... and pointed out how this was not possible on a Bailey release.
Fuckin' piece o' shit liar. Jeff Harper said something to Ric Niehaus about being able to lock the pin and Ric relayed it to me but was too stupid to be able to describe the mechanism. I couldn't figure out what the fuck Jeff had been talking about for a long time. Then I got it. And my reaction was that nobody on the planet could possibly be stupid enough to rig it that way. How naive I was back then.
I told you if you fixed that, then I'd use it.
- If you'd actually told me that I'd have told you I didn't give a flying fuck whether you used it or not. I realized what a total douchebag you were after about three encounters and wanted nothing more to do with you 'cause I knew the type. (But grossly underestimated the damage you'd be able to wreak on the sport.)
- Why? I thought that, simply put, Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey's cheap bent pin shit was at the maximum of efficiency and safety? Why downgrade?
You modified the release to include a stop.
- On Adam's request. Not yours.
- A stop which was entirely my idea and no one else's.
You made this modified release specifically for me.
Bull fucking shit. I made a release pair that I GAVE you that was the same as the other sets I was making at the time. That was while you were still half crippled from your unhooked bounce at Coronet Peak. (The one that preceded your paraglider collapse bounce at Coronet Peak.)
Don't tell me your releases had this before then.
Yes Jim. I owe it all to you. Virtually all innovations in hang gliding between 2002 and 2015 can quickly be traced back to the hang glider guy with the exceptionally keen intellect. Now please take a few minutes to briefly describe a few of your many other engineering contributions to the sport.
Oh you had barrel realeases, but they did not have...
Or need.
...stops... they could be rigged wrong.
Suck my dick.
The Highland boys didn't see a problem since students do not rig them... only we do.
- Really? If you had legitimate students then how come they never rigged any of the equipment. Or were you just running illegal commercial tandem thrill rides for pay? I think you've already answered that because students are supposed to be setting up and preflighting entire glider/harness/parachute configurations complete with release systems. And you've just told us that you were incapable of teaching ANY of them rotate a parachute pin through a weak link loop without fucking up the operation. Thanks bigtime.
- This is 2008. Does anybody have any thoughts about how Sunny and Adam might feel about this little shit they trained from the ground up, qualified on the Dragonfly, hired as a tug drIver referring to them as "The Highland BOYS" and very publicly denigrating their professional judgment? And they're clearing for launch, mass producing these improperly constructed / incomplete / defective Non Genuine Bailey Releases that can be rigged improperly.
I don't agree with this conclusion, but it's not my company.
And now it's not ANYBODY's company. It's totally extinct - along with all the motherfuckers who sunk all that money into Dragonflies, tandem thrill ride gliders, support equipment. The sport hasn't heard a single peep out of any of them since the final implosion a bit shy of two years ago.
And I have a strong suspicion that when all they needed was ONE tug driver to start the 2016 season and stave off catastrophic collapse that Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney wasn't an option anybody would stomach looking into.
Oh..... in failing to answer my "what advantage does a straight pin have" question... you attempt to reverse it to "what advantage does a curved pin have".
So again... What was your interest in them? I never once flew any of the bent pin crap and never had the slightest desire to.
Well, two things....
One... no one's trying to improve on your design.
Thank you. Looks like I totally fucking nailed it.
The bar was set with the Bailey...
No argument there. And I can remember when the bar was set at towing off the control frame and practical aerotowing didn't exist.
it is to YOU to "improve", which you have not done.
That's OK. You motherfuckers did all the improving I could've hoped for. And the mainstreamers are all watching the whole fucking sport imploding.
Two... The advantage of a curved pin... it can handle differing thicknesses of materials. Yours can't. You have a very narrow range and then you run into the problem of that pesky stop. That's why yours have weaklinks on both ends... nice and thin.
- And little dickhead JD's have a weak link on one end and a loop of two thousand pound Spectra on the other. 'Cause there's no fuckin' way he'll need a weak link in the system after the weak link end wraps at the tow ring.
- I have weak links on both ends so that there's absolutely nothing possible that can happen to leave me without weak link protection - which also happens to put me in compliance with FAA regs and u$hPa SOPs - you off the scale stupid little shit.
- According to your colleagues and dear friends at Quest and Florida Ridge having weak links on both ends doubles the required towline blow tension. Aren't you gonna comment on that?
Call it insignificant if you will, but YOU are the one that is the incumbent... the onus is on you, not Bobby.
Nah, I got an onus removal cream from the drug store. I'm good now. (Tell Bobby he can suck my dick too.)
http://estore.hanglide.com/images/product/a/aerotow-secondary-release.png
Lockout Mountain Flight Park
http://www.moyes.com.au/store/accessories/shoulder-tow-release-detail
Moyes - Accessories : Shoulder Tow Release
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/P3300017320085.jpg
Davis
http://www.blueskyhg.com/
Blue Sky / Steve Wendt
http://www.avianonline.co.uk/aerotow-releases-p-1799.html
Hang Gliding & Paragliding Shop -Avian on line.
Lameroo - Steve Blenkinsop
12-10717
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2919/14074412792_c30b955e80_o.png
Quest - Niki Longshore
17-03146
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7147/27271442445_7ea040d1e2_o.png
http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8102/29253962250_0ab23bf13a_o.png
19-03152
I DEFY anyone to find a single other reference to this alleged Stop Rivet of the alleged Genuine Bailey Release. Find me ONE photo ANYWHERE. Also find me one other individual in hang gliding stupid enough to rig an idiot Bailey Release the way JD did.
So Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney totally painted himself into the corner. By his "logic" the incomplete/defective Bailey and unstopped straight pins were all equally and extremely likely to kill someone. Straight pins are statistically nonexistent and ALL Baileys are incomplete/defective. Yet reports of rigging problems - even non event failures at altitude... Totally nonexistent. The rivet solution in a desperate decades long search of an actual problem.
Rooney's a despicable little socially retarded sociopath. He had no power as a kid and learned to maintain a low profile to keep from having the shit beat out of him a couple times a week. Then he got some geek job with Nickelodeon at which he was and had to remain a nonentity.
Then he found his niche at Ridgely where as a tug driver he could pretend to be a cool fighter jock, talk about the cavitation of the props being spun by wide open 914 Rotaxes, get his ass kissed and dick sucked by my old club crowd, fly tandems with cute chicks who'd never need to stand him for more than a half hour, pretend to be the world's greatest expert on everything and a close MATE of all the cool dudes, declare himself Pilot In Command of our gliders and us his PASSENGERS, have people's lives in his hands by virtue of his dump lever, threaten the flying careers of anyone who stood up to him.
And then on 2013/02/02 we got Zack Marzec and that motherfucker became walking dead.
It was ALWAYS Christmas for us whenever he opened his mouth and a fuckin' nightmare for the Establishment Ponzi schemers. Compare/Contrast with an intelligent sociopath like Bob who's world class at pretending to say stuff of substance while never actually doing so. Or to the really big players who never go on record saying anything about anything.
Rooney was a global phenomenon who could only have thrived in that particular window of hang gliding history. The degradation conditions were total Mama Bear - JUST RIGHT. Couldn't have happened before when there were still a few remnants of rational intelligent discussion (be sure to thank Dennis Pagen for preparing the fertile ground) and can't happen again in this era of collapse, codes of silence, line breaks.
Hope he spends his remaining decades the way I'm sure he's been spending his time since this second chopper ride off of Coronet Peak - totally socially isolated and powerless. Last Davis Show appearance - 2017/01/31 03:15:17 UTC. Over a year ago.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30912
Death at Quest Air
Jim Rooney - 2013/02/03 10:57:17 UTC
I hate getting "that" phone call. I got it this morning.
I'm considering becoming an asshole. With all the nice people dying, it just seems safer. So kiss my ass.
I met Zach up at Morningside.
Zach was hard not to like... and hard not to like instantly.
He will be sorely missed.
You aren't - and won't ever be. And nobody's ever heard of Zack now either.
I wonder when the last time your name was mentioned anywhere outside of Tad's Hole In The Ground.