instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

[Tad Eareckson]

Tug driver...

- Lure Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney, God's Gift to aviation in general and hang gliding in particular, back from New Zealand so's he can continue on as our Pilot In Command while we get up over the Eastern Shore.

- Bribe another in with a signing bonus and huge salary offer.

- Train and qualify someone.

Triple lift ticket prices.

Require seasonal memberships to subsidize the operation for when the flying opportunities suck all season long.

Find another nearby airfield with available and affordable hangar space.

Go to truck or stationary winch towing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn01oWAHoUQ


That guy solved all your problems the better part of seven years ago. In 2009 - while you motherfuckers were busy effectively ending my flying career - Guido Piccca was making hang glider aerotowing totally obsolete. But you were all too busy sucking the dicks of all the AT Industry's controllers to notice him - let alone support what he was doing.

If the entire AT Industry collapses - as I'm fervently hoping it will and believing it very well might - this would be a HUGE opportunity to revolutionize the way we get hang gliders in the air and up to workable altitude.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6904
Highland Aerosports 2016 Season News

Brad Barkley - 2016/02/15 04:45:17 UTC

Really hope things work out.

Me too. And I'm pretty sure they are. Not the way you want though.

I agree that the signing bonus for a new pilot might be a great idea, and of course I'm willing to kick in. Dan L. has already posted something on the.org about this, so hopefully that gets the word out a little better.

Why do you think it is that Sunny and Adam didn't post anything on the Jack and/or Davis Shows to help get the word out a little better?

Truck towing is great, and I'm a regular at blue sky...

Where it's done...

http://vimeo.com/137652056


...super safely.

But it would be a shame not to have our friendly neighborhood dragonfly pilot hauling us into the air.

- Fuck...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/11 19:22:18 UTC

Of course not... it's Asshole-ese.

Sorry, I'm sick and tired of all these soap box bullshit assheads that feel the need to spout their shit at funerals. I just buried my friend and you're seizing the moment to preach your bullshit? GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!!!!!!

I can barely stand these pompus asswipes on a normal day.

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/16 05:05:41 UTC

Ok, keyboard in hand.
I've got a bit of time, but I'm not going to write a dissertation... so either choose to try to understand what I'm saying, or (as is most often the case) don't.
I don't care.

Here's a little bit of bitter reality that ya'll get to understand straight off. I won't be sugar coating it, sorry.
You see, I'm on the other end of that rope.
I want neither a dead pilot on my hands or one trying to kill me.
And yes. It is my call. PERIOD.
On tow, I am the PIC.

Now, that cuts hard against every fiber of every HG pilot on the planet and I get that.
Absolutely no HG pilot likes hearing it. Not me, not no one. BUT... sorry, that's the way it is.
Accept it and move on.
Not only can you not change it, it's the law... in the very literal sense.

So, you're quite right in your thinking in your example. The person you have to convince is me (or whoever your tuggie is).
I've had this conversation with many people.
We've had various outcomes.
I can tell you what my general ideas and rules are, but you do not need to agree with them nor do you get to dictate anything to me... if I'm not happy, you ain't getting towed by me. Why I'm not happy doesn't matter. It's my call, and if I'm having so much as a bad hair day, then tough. You can go get someone else. I won't be offended. Each tuggie is different, and I've had someone ask me to tow them with some stuff that I wasn't happy with and I told him point blank... go ask the other guy, maybe he'll do it.

I can tell you that for me, you're going to have a hell of a time convincing me to tow you with *anything* home-made.
"But I love my mouth release! It's super-delux-safe"... that's great, but guess what?

I've towed at places that use different weak links than greenspot. They're usually some other form of fishing line. Up in Nelson (New Zealand), they don't have greenspot, so they found a similar weight fishing line. They replace their link every single tow btw... every one, without question or exception... that's just what the owner wants and demands. Fine by me. If it wasn't, then I wouldn't tow for them and I wouldn't be towed by them. That's his place and he gets to make that call. Pretty simple.

Up at Morningside, they're using that new orange weaklink. It's a bit stronger and it has to be sewn or glued so it doesn't slip when unloaded.

If you're within the FAA specs and you're using something manufactured, then you're going to have a far better time convincing me to tow you.
My general rule is "no funky shit". I don't like people reinventing the wheel and I don't like test pilots. Have I towed a few test pilots? Yup. Have I towed them in anything but very controlled conditions? Nope. It's a damn high bar. I've told more to piss off than I've told yes. I'll give you an example... I towed a guy with the early version of the new Lookout release. But the Tad-o-link? Nope.

So I hope that sheds some light on the situation.
But again, every tuggie's different and every situation is different.
What doesn't change however is that it's my call, not yours.
And it's my job to be the "bad guy" sometimes.
Sorry. It's just the way it is.

Deltaman - 2013/02/16 22:41:36 UTC

How is that possible to write so much ..and say NOTHING !?

...YEAH!

You guys SO deserve each other.

- So does that mean that AT is extinct at Manquin as well?

- Well, it's not like New Zealand doesn't have in internet connection so at least he'll still be able to keep telling all us muppets about the length of the track record of 130 pound Greenspot fishing line.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33076
'Lift and Tug Before You Get Off' - PSA video from Heli1

Brad Barkley - 2015/06/28 21:27:16 UTC

I have read Tad's writings once. I read his mentions of nearly every friend or instructor I have in HG, intimating how happy he will be to see them injured or killed. And me as well. It goes far, far beyond "potty mouth." Every HG pilot I know (well, most) has a potty mouth. There is a reason Tad has been banned from every forum, including this one, and from pretty much every flying site in the country. He is a sick person and his "rants" are beyond grotesque.

I'm REALLY hoping that there is and would be totally zero overlap in the spheres of individuals we have and would consider for having as friends. Pretty happy with what I've seen to date.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34071
Radical ideas for hanggliding safety

Dan Lukaszewicz - 2016/02/15 04:18:40 UTC

It's been a long cold winter on the east coast. I doubt that it's possible to legislate our way to safety but I've been thinking of ways to make our sport safer nonetheless.

I feel that the pillars of safety are competent instruction, suitable equipment, and being current with your gear. I would propose the following be considered:

1. Wings should required an annual sail off air worthiness inspection and receive an inspection sticker.
2. Old wings that are no longer suitable for flying wound be rendered unflyable.
3. To maintain their ratings all pilots should require a biannual review with an instructor.
4. Aerobatics would require a sign off and must be performed a safe distance above terrain. The pilot would be required to carry two parachutes.
5. Instructors would be required to complete continuing education.
6. Sign offs would be required for double surfaced and topless wings.
7. Wings could only be sold to a person holding the requisite sign offs.

Comments?

Yeah, a fuckin' book or two.

It's been a long cold winter on the east coast.

And it won't be over for the better part another five weeks and we've already killed guys on BOTH coasts.

I doubt that it's possible to legislate our way to safety but...

You're gonna try to do it anyway.

I've been thinking of ways to make our sport safer nonetheless.

None of which will include adhering to any EXISTING solid u$hPa SOPs and FAA regulations.

I feel that the pillars of safety...

Oh good. Let's go with what another asshole FEELS about something.

...are competent instruction...

- Good freakin' luck. The pillar of u$hPa instruction is INcompetence. Competence is rewarded with banning and ostracism.

- Yeah. Let's make sure we stop graduating Twos who haven't yet perfected their flare timing and can't consistency nail the old Frisbee in the middle of the LZ.

- If these are legitimate issues and we have competent instruction how come it's you rather than our competent instructors...

Dan Lukaszewicz - Alexandria, Virginia - 88871 - H3 - 2012/08/23 - Steve Wendt - AT FL PL ST CL FSL

...making these proposals?

...suitable equipment...

Always make sure your bent pin crap is Industry Standard, has a very long track record, and meets the approval of Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney.

...and being current with your gear.

And make sure you're current with it. Always practice making the easy reach to your release on the cart and occasionally go up with a tandem instructor a couple thousand feet in smooth air for a few weak link inconvenience drills so that won't be an issue when your magic fishing line decides to increase the safety of the towing operation several seconds into the launch.

I would propose the following be considered:

1. Wings should required an annual sail off air worthiness inspection and receive an inspection sticker.

- By whom?

- Whether it's been flown or not.

- And make sure you throw all your nylocks away and replace them with new ones. We can't afford anymore fatalities from the reused jobs vibrating off in flight.

- And don't EVER do THIS:

Wills Wing

While pushing up on the leading edge between the nose and the crossbar junction, step on the bottom side wire with about 75 pounds of force. This is a rough field test of the structural security of the side wire loop, the control bar and the crossbar, and may reveal a major structural defect that could cause an in-flight failure in normal operation.

before heading to the ramp or cart. You might damage or break something.

2. Old wings that are no longer suitable for flying wound be rendered unflyable.

And let's have a decertification program to set standards for identifying old wings no longer suitable for flying.

3. To maintain their ratings all pilots should require a biannual review with an instructor.

We could go up on tandem check rides with a Dr. Trisa Tilletti or Kelly Harrison.

4. Aerobatics would require a sign off and must be performed a safe distance above terrain.

- Fuck yeah. Whenever you're planning on exceeding the placard limitations on your aircraft you need to have somebody certify you to do so.
- What's a safe distance above terrain? How much altitude should you have for blowing a loop, cross spar, or leading edge section?

The pilot would be required to carry two parachutes.

Goddam right. When the first one doesn't work you should try doing the same thing again and expect a better result.

5. Instructors would be required to complete continuing education.

- Since when did u$hPa start educating instructors?

- So you're saying our current crop of instructors mostly sucks?

- Instructor certification is only good for three years. What are they gonna forget in that time span that a refresher course is gonna bring them back up to speed on?

6. Sign offs would be required for double surfaced and topless wings.

- And for pro towing.
- But we muppets are OK for single surface toplesses. Or are you saying that we need another signoff to go from a U2 to a T2?

7. Wings could only be sold to a person holding the requisite sign offs.

So you...
- have to get your experience to qualify for double/topless on a borrowed or rented wing
- can get your rating revoked if you sell a double or topless to anyone isn't a current u$hPa member

Comments?

Nah, just a question or two for the moment... In the excellent book, Towing Aloft, by Dennis Pagen and Bill Bryden we're told that:

A weak link is the focal point of a safe towing system.

How do we know what weak link we're supposed to be using and what's it supposed to be doing for us? And why is no one asking why the focal point of Tomas's safe towing system link failed to succeed a bit shy of two weeks ago?

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34071
Radical ideas for hanggliding safety

Tom Galvin - 2016/02/15 04:31:17 UTC

Let me explain.
[pause]
No, there is too much. Let me sum up.

Eliminate Part 103

And never do a hook-in check. The LAST thing you want just prior to launch is a false sense of security.

Rolla Manning - 2016/02/15 04:36:07 UTC

You can keep your nanny state! I for one will continue to keep myself safe in this sport and don't need anyone telling me what to fly or when and how to fly.

So obviously nobody else does either.

This is suppose to be FREE FLIGHT after all

- Until we slam in catastrophically. Then we ALWAYS become huge problems for other people and society at large.

- Who says it's supposed to be "FREE FLIGHT"? Cite some examples of flights that aren't dependent upon highway maintenance, land access, ramps, runways, towing facilities, retrieval... And I think it's really great the way manufacturers just leave stacks of their current gliders at LZs for anyone who feels like taking one home with him.

- So how come we never hear you speaking up whenever a Jack Show newbie is admonished to seek out certified instruction?

2016/02/15 13:38:43 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Allen Sparks
2016/02/15 16:48:40 UTC - 3 thumbs up - NMERider

Fletcher - 2016/02/15 04:43:55 UTC

Lucky Chevy
Your post was a joke right?

2016/02/15 16:49:04 UTC - 3 thumbs up - NMERider

Paul Hurless - 2016/02/15 04:45:48 UTC

If you want to fly under those kind of rules get a pilot's license and fly GA.

Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06

You and I have flown sailplanes for almost as long as we have flown hang gliders. We own two sailplanes and have two airplanes that we use for towing full-size sailplanes. In all the time that we have flown and towed sailplanes, we have not experienced or even seen a sailplane weak link break.

Mike Blakely - 2016/02/15 04:57:33 UTC
Monrovia, California

I doubt that it's possible to legislate our way to safety...

But nevertheless you are proposing exactly that. No thanks, we will have sports that are not guaranteed safe. Such as skiing, horse riding, bike riding, hang gliding, scuba diving, rock climbing, etc.

Name one of those one percent as fucked up as the fourth one on your list.

No more regs, we are choked with regs.

So just start ignoring some. 'Specially the sane effective ones everybody does already.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34071
Radical ideas for hanggliding safety

Mike Badley - 2016/02/15 06:20:00 UTC

You gotta be kidding me...

Lucky-Chevy, adding RULES and REQUIREMENTS like that will not increase the safety of pilots.

Or even the assholes who have no fuckin' clue what a pilot is and work their whole lives on hang gliders to perfect their flare timing.

The accidents of recent years have NOT been a result of poor training, failed equipment (mostly - although I do recall a failed sidewire at Funston)...

Was that the guy who was always doing stomp tests and grinding his sidewires into sharp rocks?

...lack of certifications or any of the other BS issues you want to regulate.
What they HAVE been attributed to is pilot error, unlucky accidents and maybe some shoddy procedures that are already addressed in Operating Safely, but for some reason, ignored by the pilot in question.

What about:
- 2015/03/27 - Arys Moorhead - student pilot?
- 2015/06/20 - Bertrand Delacroix - who was flying an aircraft that appeared to be for recreational purposes?
- 2015/10/11 - Jesse Fulkersin - who came in with plenty of speed and corrected properly when he was popped by a thermal?
- 2015/11/08 - Karen Carra - whose nose popped up on launch?

You absolutely cannot regulate your way to ZERO incidents.

Or, obviously, anything down from eleven US incidents claiming twelve lives within a span of ten months and six days. So let's drop all this regulation crap once and for all!

What continues to improve safety is the willingness of manufacturer's...

Manufacturer's what?

...to recognize the limits of design and keep their ships and equipment within a good margin of safety;

The same margin of safety they had in the late Seventies with the implementation of the HGMA certification. Keep up the great work, manufacturer's! And thanks for all the really great work you've done on towing and helping us to understand what an appropriate weak link with a finished length of 1.5 inches or less is and what it's supposed to do for us.

...an open discussion of safety topics amongst pilots...

Other, of course, than the ones Jack and Davis don't want in their Living Rooms.

...and a willingness to share lessons learned;

Like:
- 2013/02/02 - Zack Marzec
- 2014/09/29 - Joe Julik
- 2015/03/27 - Kelly Harrison / Arys Moorhead
- 2015/05/17 - Scott Trueblood
- 2015/06/20 - Bertrand Delacroix
- 2015/10/11 - Jesse Fulkersin
- 2015/11/08 - Karen Carra
- 2016/02/02 - Tomas Banevicius

And then there's all the wonderful lessons learned from beyond the US.

...a good state of mentorship for newer and growing pilots so that they have people they can respect and learn from;

Brings to mind Ken Muscio and Stan Albright.

...a lot of 'self-policing' by the pilot population to call out and correct dangerous behavior...

Like walking around in harnesses and trying to sneak into launch lines with inappropriate Tad-O-Links.

...or conditions...

2015/08/24 - Craig Pirazzi
2015/10/11 - Jesse Fulkersin
2015/11/08 - Karen Carra

...with local pilots...

Local pilots are THE BEST!. You'll notice that it's NEVER the local pilot who ends up buying the farm on any given afternoon.

...and a personal commitment by pilots in general to fly safely.

And take away the FOCUSED PILOT wristbands from all those bastards who refuse to make the personal commitment to fly safely.

Rolla Manning - Three Posts Back UTC

Life's goal is not to arrive safely at the grave in a well preserved body. But rather to slide in sideways, totally worn out and broken, shouting “Holy Crap, WHAT A RIDE !!"

Nanny state?? NO THANKS

Fuck no, Dan! Now let's look up a few more nanny state regulations that we're not already violating the crap outta on a regular basis and start violating them!

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34071
Radical ideas for hanggliding safety

Comet - 2016/02/15 08:36:52 UTC
Washington, DC

Check the accident reports for last year.

How? Where? The piddling, useless, obfuscatory crap that u$hPa feels like decimating to us muppets?

It's unlikely that your recommendations would have prevented even one of those incidents.

How 'bout...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31781
Another hang check lesson

Alan Deikman - 2014/09/23 19:47:06 UTC

For my part I will just refer you to the classic Tad Eareckson essay which I call "the gun is always loaded" which is a bit overworked but probably all you will ever need to read regarding FTHI. A lot of people will find it gores their particular sacred Ox, but I have never seen anyone point out a flaw in his logic.

..mine?

Yet they would add another huge layer of bureaucracy to the sport and serve as a further deterrent to growth.

Which is currently massively negative. So wouldn't a deterrent to negative growth be a good thing?

Serious BS.

Dan Hamblin - 2016/02/15 10:21:21 UTC
England

Isn't is a good idea to actually understand what causes the accidents in the first place?

Fuck...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27736
Increase in our USHpA dues

Mark G. Forbes - 2012/12/20 06:21:33 UTC

We're re-working the accident reporting system, but again it's a matter of getting the reports submitted and having a volunteer willing to do the detail work necessary to get them posted. There are also numerous legal issues associated with accident reports, which we're still wrestling with. It's a trade-off between informing our members so they can avoid those kinds of accidents in the future, and exposing ourselves to even more lawsuits by giving plaintiff's attorneys more ammunition to shoot at us.

Imagine a report that concludes, "If we'd had a procedure "x" in place, then it would have probably prevented this accident. And we're going to put that procedure in place at the next BOD meeting." Good info, and what we want to be able to convey. But what comes out at trial is, "Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, my client suffered injury because USHPA knew or should have known that a safety procedure was not in place, and was therefore negligent and at fault." We're constantly walking this line between full disclosure and handing out nooses at the hangmen's convention.

...NO! What? Are you nuts or sumpin'?

Rarely is it equipment failure!

And when it very obviously is...

2014/02/24 - Mark Knight
2011/07/23 - Keavy Nenninger
2015/06/20 - Bertrand Delacroix

...u$hPa and the establishment forces make sure we never get the slightest clue as to what it was.

IMHO access to good safe flying sites would address this.

Well yeah, but let's make sure that we have our guys land in waist high wheat and narrow dry riverbeds with large rocks strewn all over the place every now and then to keep our landing skills up to snuff.

Coming from the UK, with limited sites that are often crowded or the conditions are not 'perfect', pilots (myself included) - will sometimes make a poor judgement call to fly rather than try again another day - we don't get many flying days per year!

Just make sure everybody uses standard aerotow weak links.

...or 2500+ feet if you're aerotowing.

Is this a joke ?

Davis Straub - 2011/08/28 15:26:28 UTC

Then again, Russell Brown had us double up behind him after six breaks in a row at Zapata. We couldn't figure out why we had so many breaks so quickly. Maybe just coincidence.

Totally invaluable for thinning out the skies on good flying days.

Craig Hassan - 2016/02/15 12:27:30 UTC

I'd echo most of the comments given.

When have you NOT operated in that manner?

You don't legislate safety in.

Except for all the crap we have on the books already. I'm totally fine with that and thus have never uttered a single syllable in the way of dissent.

You legislate cost in!

So let's just keep doing things this year the same way we did last and hold the fatalities to just into double digits again.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34071
Radical ideas for hanggliding safety

Dan Lukaszewicz - 2016/02/15 12:31:18 UTC

It seems that all rules pertaining to safety have to be written in blood.

Bullshit. We're still spilling blood for EXACTLY the same reasons we were in the early Eighties and before, the fixes have ALWAYS been known and obvious, and hang gliding has ALWAYS refused to implement them and for the past couple of decades has been totally intolerant of even discussing the fixes.

In the last year I had to burry some friends and witness some near misses. There was

1. An experienced pilot (and good friend) killed while performing aerobatics.

That's not exactly what the report says:

2015/06/20 - Bertrand Delacroix

Bertrand Delacroix (49), an Advanced (H4) pilot and USHPA member since 2004, suffered fatal injuries during a flight from Highland Aerosports flight park in Ridgely, MD. The pilot aerotowed to 5000 feet AGL just before noon on a light wind overcast day. The pilot was observed to be mostly "boating around" and doing some typical steep bank wingovers between 2-3K feet AGL. Slowly descending to approximately 400 feet AGL the pilot then initiated some maneuver that was not witnessed but was followed by several full revolutions that a pilot witness on the ground saw and that appeared to be a fully developed spin until impact with the ground, causing fatal injuries.

Until now I've had the original account...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6676
Sad News from Ridgely

John Dullahan - 2015/06/21 22:10:03 UTC

Yesterday, Ridgely had its first hang gliding fatality in 16 years of operation. Bertrand decided to take a short flight prior to the Highland Challenge pilot's meeting at 11:00. Just as the meeting was to begin, Bob came in and said to hold off because Bertrand had a hard landing in the car park alongside racetrack road and that it might be serious. Witnesses said Bertrand did not appear to be in control of the glider and spiraled in all the way to impact. There were paramedics at the vintage car show taking place at the park so they were on the scene almost immediately. They performed CPR to no avail.

...locked into my head and it looks like I just glaze over when I see the u$hPa crap about that latest guy to have died as a consequence of suffering fatal injuries. Was thinking it had to be something that was or went wrong with the glider. He did something that put him into a spin he didn't fly himself out of.

Would additional training have helped? I'm going to say that it wouldn't have hurt.

Yeah? What have Sunny, Adam, Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney said on the issue?

2. A hanggliding school opens nearby but the owner is scarcely a H-3 and it is evident from his videos posted to YouTube that he will be killing a student with his incompetence in the near future.

But he didn't. And at the beginning of last spring a guy with experience and u$hPa qualifications oozing outta his ass...

John Kelly Harrison - 53375 - H5 - 1996/10/23 - Joe Greblo - PL TFL TPL AWCL CL FSL RLF TUR XC - ADV INST, TAND INST

...did as many things wrong as humanly possible and smashed himself and an eleven year old kid into a desert lakebed in totally benign conditions. So I'd hafta say that the Scarcely Three was doing a much better job.

And any thoughts on THIS:

26-44322
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7511/16020130310_44e703c111_o.png


Norwegian skygod?

3. A young lady visiting from the west coast borrows a wing that is older than she is so she can continue to peruse her hanggliding passion and ends up throwing her chute in part because the dive recovery on the old wing is not up to snuff.

So how come this is the first we're hearing of this? And who lent her the glider?

4. Old junk being sold on eBay and waiting to kill novice pilots that want to learn to fly.

So how many Darwin cases that do this and are too stupid to tune into any web resources have we racked up in the past couple decades?

These are only suggestions that have been implemented in the GA environment or in Europe. I can't believe that there isn't room for improvement in the current system.

There's nothing BUT room. And did you watch what happened to me at club and Ridgely and then at national level when I tried to do little more than get existing u$hPa SOPs and FAA regs complied with?

wonderwind_flyer - 2016/02/15 13:31:06 UTC
NW Michigan

I believe many European countries have a mandatory two year glider inspection requirement and this may not be such a bad idea. I have met many pilots here in the USA that have never replaced their flying wires on gliders 10+ years old and rarely even check their ribs to the original patterns.

- And that's why a mandatory two year glider inspection may not be such a bad idea? We need to have some u$hPa certified douchebag to take the whole fuckin' glider apart to make sure the flying wires are good and the battens check to the patterns?

- Does a visual inspection of sidewires confirm that they're airworthy? Or might a load test reveal a problem that would be undetectable.

- So as long as you take the glider apart every two years to check the sidewires they're good to go at all times between those intervals, right? You couldn't kink one at the nico putting the glider away after Flight One and be dead a couple seconds after launch on Flight Two?

- So you're seeing sidewires that haven't been replaced in over a decade and yet people aren't falling out of the sky in droves. Does that tell you anything about the ass covering, sales promoting glider manufacturer maintenance schedules specifying one year, six months for replacement?

A few years ago a PG pilot (who used to be an HG pilot) wanted to take his 25 year old HG out of storage and fly it on stronger wind days when he couldn't fly his PG. He set the glider up for me to look at and the sail had shrunk so much chord-wise that the ribs were under severe compression when installed in the sail. The shrinkage span-wise made the sail so tight that it was difficult to pull the X-bar back. The flying wires had kinks in places and had never been replaced. Fortunately he changed his mind about flying the glider and it is back in storage. Hopefully it stays there.

Wow! He scrubbed the flight even without having some u$hPa certified douchebag do a sail-off inspection every two years. AMAZING!

At the very least, more education on the need for glider maintenance and airworthiness might be a valuable safety 'tool'.

Yeah. Then we can continue to ignore all the ACTUAL...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22176
Paragliding Collapses

Jim Rooney - 2011/06/12 13:57:58 UTC

Most common HG injury... spiral fracture of the humerus.

...safety issues we have in the sport.

Brian Scharp - 2016/02/15 16:12:25 UTC

http://vimeo.com/138095129

http://www.flyfunston.org/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1733
Wires

Doug Doerfler - 2015/09/21 23:37 UTC

Did you notice the moron in the video rubs his wire on a big rock when he steps on it, then the second time actually comments to make sure the rock isn't sharp

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34071
Radical ideas for hanggliding safety

Dave Hopkins - 2016/02/15 16:46:27 UTC

Since the early days we have adopted many major equipment changes and inclusions for safety.

Thanks in no small part to great minds like yours.

Parachutes, helmets...

Helmets. Wow! Somebody thought of using helmets.

...two hang straps...

For people too fucking stupid to:
- be able to figure out how to make sure that one of them will be capable of safely connecting him to his glider
- understand that he's still dangling from just one keel that's good for a tiny fraction of what a strap is

...certifying gliders...

Then totally decertifying them by:
- launching, approaching, landing upright on the control tubes
- putting release actuators within easy reach
- going up behind tugs on pro toad bridles
- using safety devices which whip inconvenience the glider when it's climbing hard under tow

...educating the pilot population...

...a rating system...

To make sure you'll be able to safely land in a narrow dry riverbed with large rocks strewn all over the place whenever you need to.

...and more.

Mandatory tandem training so's you can learn to safely handle a Rooney Link increasing the safety of the towing operation at two thousand feet in smooth air.

We have accepted all of these steps to safety as SOP.

Whether we've wanted to or not.

The one safety step backwards that we made was...

Totally abandoning:

Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974

"A bad flyer won't hurt a pin man but a bad pin man can kill a flyer." - Bill Bennett
"Never take your hands off the bar." - Tom Peghiny
"The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release." - Richard Johnson

and swallowing Donnell Hewett's faith based snake oil hook, and sinker.

...going to prone harness...

From swing seats. Talk to Chris Starbuck.

...that puts us always head first.

No problem, Dave...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33501
How we judge our flying risk

Dave Hopkins - 2015/10/15 14:25:26 UTC

I agree with going upright at a decent alti. Head down with hands on the base tube has killed several pilots. Eliminate that from your flying and fight Accelerated risk factor.

All we gotta do is go upright and to the control tubes whenever we're near the surface. That'll cut WAY down on the serious injuries.

We will never make this sport accident free but we could make accidents much more survivable.

Yeah, let's all go back to swing seats.

Almost all our fatalities comes from head , neck and upper body trauma.

Gee. I've been reading all the u$hPa fatality reports and thinking it was almost all from the suffering of fatal injuries.

This is the direct result diving into the ground head first.

Does coming in prone mean one's diving into the ground headfirst? Even when we're crashing hard enough to seriously injure or kill ourselves aren't we almost always coming in at an angle? Often shallower than 45 degrees?

Impacting head first at 20 to 50 mph is almost always fatal.

Twenty miles per hour? Prone flyers crash prone and headfirst all the fuckin' time.

46-45901
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2937/14081080220_373f64f01d_o.png


This asshole walks away pretty sore but OK.

53-52721
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3764/14264355621_2d649d9279_o.png


But the reason he crashes in the first place and almost rips both his arms out of their sockets is because he comes in upright with his hands on the control tubes...

40-45607
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2934/14081129757_df867fcfbf_o.png


...so he can land safely on his feet with his head up.

Fifty miles per hour? Tell me why we're coming into the surface at fifty miles per hour? Then tell me all about coming in at fifty miles per and coming away in reasonably good shape 'cause we hit...

http://ozreport.com/forum/files/copy_2_of_imgp1239_197.jpg
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7220/13949046702_ccfa0fafab_o.png

http://www.thekiteboarder.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/opener-532x800.jpg

...feet first. Idiot.

It seems we advanced...

...Alzheimer's ravaged...

...pilots are not bright enough to teach our selves and new...

Young.

...pilots to get off the bar and get our heads up and feet forward.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27086
Steve Pearson on landings

Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05 UTC

I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.

Head up, feet forward:

47-25621
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5587/14877736698_8feb0c4bcf_o.png


Head injury, three weeks in the hospital, six months out of work...

58-30111
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5580/14877665180_0994359f31_o.png


...end of flying career.

If all our crashes were feet first most injury's would go from fatal neck and brain to a broken foot, ankle, leg or knee.

Fuck yeah! Like this guy:

55-12709
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5715/22526738155_5abcc25c63_o.png


http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5817/21905536183_874c0d808b_o.png
61-12827

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=33544
Student Pilot Ridge Soaring Crash - Watch & Learn

NMERider - 2015/10/22 14:44:09 UTC

Multiple facial fractures, broken jaw, broken humerus, broken ribs.

How very odd. I was thinking broken foot, ankle, leg, or knee. Go figure.

If you dumb fucks would stay prone on the CONTROL bar and CONTROL the glider instead of getting upright into "safe" crash configuration maybe you could LAND a little more often and CRASH a little less often and not get injured AT ALL.

I propose that we incorporate a new style harness that allows for switching from prone to suprone or seated when launching and landing .

That's a magnificent proposal, Dave. Maybe after y'all get through with that you can figure out how to make barrel releases with straight pins.

Get rid of the prone only harnesses.

We don't HAVE any prone only harnesses. ALL of them allow the pilot to go upright so's he can practice for landing in narrow dry riverbeds with large rocks strewn all over the place. If we DID have prone only harnesses...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22176
Paragliding Collapses

Jim Rooney - 2011/06/12 13:57:58 UTC

Most common HG injury... spiral fracture of the humerus.

...our crash rate would drop by at least 95 percent.

It would mean a couple more lines or a bar...

Get Paul Hurless to design it for ya. He's great at that sorta thing. You oughta see the aerotow release design he's told us all he's perfected.

...and the performance junkys would whine but if we made it mandatory even in contest it would be come the norm.

Yeah. Let's make this imaginary harness of yours mandatory even for comps. But perish the thought we should make wheels or skids mandatory for anything.

I have proven this idea of not crashing head down several times.

Like NFL players have proven over the courses of many plays in games that there's almost no possibility whatsoever of getting their brains turned to total crud.

In every situation I have made great effort to get my head up and feet in front.

Yeah. You keep...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34041
Cart dynamics

Dave Hopkins - 2016/02/09 20:25:51 UTC

Experience counts for everything. Having a observer ( winch controller) saved my bacon. Even though I still crash from the lockout the pressure being released made my impact much less sever. Probably saving my life. I also had rotated up and grabbed the top of one DT and made sure my legs and butt would hit first, I was knocked unconscious.

...telling us.

I did break a bunch of bones in a foot while diving an experiment rigid wing into the ground at 70 mph. It would have killed me10 time over if I hit head first...

God! I shutter to think what a loss to the hang gliding community that would've been.

...but I made the effort to get my head up and feet down.

The Lord be praised!

I allowed the wing to be a crumple zone. I can think of 5 times I had to use this protective action in my 38 yrs of flying. Each time I would have impacted head first and died a stupid death if I had just let go as many pilots advise.

So - lemme see if I've got this right - you DO wanna let go of the control bar to get into crash position but DON'T wanna let go of the downtubes?

Sure just let go and tuck and roll if you are in a mild whack with almost no speed, but a high speed crash is different.

And who are any of us muppets to argue with someone with such unparalled experience with high speed crashes?

So from my experience it is either teach pilots to get off the bar and get their head up and feet down in a crash situation ( which takes fast recognition and reaction) or redesign our equipment to make it much easier to be in a safer position when launching, landing and crashing.

Teach pilots how NOT to crash? Just kidding.

Dave's two cents

Again... The Lord be praised for preserving you to the benefit of all of hang gliding.

[<BS>]

So from my experience it is either teach pilots to get off the bar and get their head up and feet down in a crash situation...

Which works when you don't have time to not use your release.

...or redesign our equipment to make it much easier to be in a safer position when...

you need it while maintaining control of the glider. Then avoiding a crash can be done with a simple safe action

...( which takes fast recognition and reaction)...

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=34071
Radical ideas for hanggliding safety

Ryan Voight - 2016/02/15 17:10:09 UTC

Long detailed response to Lucky that I mostly agree with. Next...

lesio - 2016/02/15 17:10:35 UTC
Ontario

To maintain their ratings all pilots should require a biannual review with an instructor.

Lucky, no offence but: are you one of the "instructors" looking to make a buck in this?

If he were wouldn't everybody know the answer to that question already? The only people making bucks off this crap are the controllers of the big commercial operations. And those motherfuckers NEVER engage in forum discussions.

If so - get a job somewhere else and get a GA pilot licence, as recommended by one of the people above.

But you're totally OK with the kinda crap that you're suspecting Dan of pulling that the big commercial operators...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TUGS/message/1184
aerotow instruction was Re: Tug Rates

Larry Jorgensen - 2011/02/17 13:37:47 UTC

It did not come from the FAA, it came from a USHPA Towing Committee made up of three large aerotow operations that do tandems for hire.

Appalling.

...have ALREADY pulled on everyone.

Ryan Voight - 2016/02/15 17:23:26 UTC

Dave Hopkins - 2016/02/15 16:46:27 UTC

The one safety step backwards that we made was going to prone harness that puts us always head first. We will never make this sport accident free but we could make accidents much more survivable.
Almost all our fatalities comes from head , neck and upper body trauma. This is the direct result diving into the ground head first. Impacting head first at 20 to 50 mph is almost always fatal.

Hard to disagree with that!

Yeah Ryan. The ONE safety step backwards that we made was going from swing seats to prone harnesses. But, what the hell, we've neutralized a lot of that problem by putting all of our students in...

05 - 03223
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7411/14165628916_bbdc682e28_o.png


...forced upright training harnesses. MUCH...

http://ozreport.com/14.129
Packsaddle accident report

Shane Nestle - 2010/06/30 13:01:28 UTC

2010/06/26 - John Seward

The problem began when he initiated his turn. Being that John was still very new to flying in the prone position, I believe that he was likely not shifting his weight, but simply turning his body in the direction he wanted to turn.

...safer.

The only thing I'd add is that not all accidents are equal... an accident where someone hits the ground is one thing... but an accident where the glider (and pilot's body) hits the ground at a near-perpendicular angle... that's 10x worse...

And virtually nonexistent. And so what is it that happened three seconds ago that put the glider in the vertical dive? And in General Aviation do they talk about the best way to survive vertical dives into the ground?

..and while we might never be accident free, I dream some day we can get to a point where it's only the smaller kind of accident, not the massive neck breaking kind. Maybe I'm just dreaming...

No, I'm pretty sure you're onto something here. Everything we've been seeing in the past year or so has been trending in that direction.

It seems we advanced pilots are not bright enough to teach our selves and new pilots to get off the bar and get our heads up and feet forward. If all our crashes were feet first most injury's would go from fatal neck and brain to a broken foot, ankle, leg or knee.

Two words come to mind: PARA GLIDING.

They don't have much better fatality rates as us... and I personally know a dozen or so people that suffered spinal injuries from paragliding... granted, they're ALIVE (and doing quite well now, actually)... but the seated position is a band aid on the real problem- serious crashes. IMHO...

Ya think?

NMERider - 2016/02/15 18:25:33 UTC

Dan Lukaszewicz - 2016/02/15 12:31:18 UTC

It seems that all rules pertaining to safety have to be written in blood. In the last year I had to burry some friends and witness some near misses....

Then you may want to consider writing about your personal inner experiences of what it was like for you on the inside. Not your opinions about events outside yourself but what you lived through internally. Hang gliding is an extremely personal sport that defies being quantified.

What? Miles per hour, feet per second, pounds, square feet, glide ratios, headings, densities, degrees Fahrenheit don't work for us?

What each pilot experiences inside is unique to that pilot.

Most pilots feel tow pressure, a few feel tow tension.

Very often pilots have no idea of what another pilot feels, think or imagines unless they relax and discuss it.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32681
Tandem crash in LV (speculation thread)

Mark G. Forbes - 2015/04/01 03:46:29 UTC

Among ourselves, we agree (via the waiver) that we understand we're engaged in a risky sport that can cause serious injury or death. We each agree that we are personally and individually responsible for our own safety. If we have an accident and get hurt, we agree in advance that it is solely our own fault, no matter what the circumstances might be. We sign at the bottom saying that we fully understand these things, that we accept them, and that we know we are giving up the right to sue anybody if an accident happens.

Those are fundamental tenets of our sport. We are all individually responsible for ourselves and our safety. We need to see and avoid all other pilots, avoid crashing into people or property and use good judgment when flying. If someone doesn't agree with those principles, then they don't need to be involved in our sport.

If nobody broaches the subject then no one will ever know that they are far from alone in the things they go through on the inside.

Hang gliding safety is a...

...fictional...

...culture. It is not a set of SOPs, rules or regulations.

Fuck no. We've decided we're not gonna comply with any of that crap because much of it conflicts with our opinions.

A culture is a shared set of beliefs, actions and experiences among other things. If you want to see fewer accidents then you need to address the culture of the sport and this begins with you and the process starts when you learn to share with others what you experience on the inside. The more that pilots learn to really communicate with one another in a way that more pilots can relate to each other on a personal level then the more likely it is that individual pilots will experience being an integral part of the larger group rather than an outsider or a competitor or adversary of the group.

http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/HG_ORG_Mission_Statement
HangGliding.Org Rules and Policies

No posts or links about Bob K, Scott C Wise, Tad Eareckson and related people, or their material. ALL SUCH POSTS WILL BE IMMEDIATELY DELETED. These people are poison to this sport and are permanently banned from this site in every possible way imaginable.

And so safety becomes the primary goal of the group and the communication between individual members of the group spreads the messages and experiences related to safety.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/28 01:17:55 UTC

Well said Billo
I'm a bit sick of all the armchair experts telling me how my friend died.

Ah but hg'ers get so uppity when you tell them not to speculate.

This has been my experience of when accidents don't happen as opposed to when they do. It's when pilots really communicate and there is a culture that holds safety up as a shared value.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=26557
Failure to hook in 6/29/12

Adam Parer - 2012/07/15 05:01:12 UTC

We are militant with this sort of thing down here. Anyone seen walking around in their harness unhooked are immediately pulled up, by everyone. Not sure of the reaction if the justification was to keep the harness clean or scratched free, or that it was uncomfortable to bend over because there was extra weight to carry, or they have a sore back. It would probably be advice along the lines of 'harden the f^&k up'