instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/15.096
Julia - flying a small glider

Pinned to the cart (Souther field)
Julia Kucherenko - 2011/05/16 12:35:57 UTC

Most people are convinced that the reason for my crash was coming off the cart too early. That is not quite right. I'll try to describe my guess at what happened:

1. Low angle of attack - glider got "stuck" to the cart

Angle of attack. We all know, that we should check it before we launch. So do I and I always put keel support in the lowest position possible. But my Combat 12 has a smaller airframe compare to other gliders and often even lowest position is not enough. I got used to it, and almost every second launch I had to "push out" basebar to get off the cart, when I feel that I am traveling with enough speed but the glider is still not flying. I thought this was normal.

2. Cross tail wind with combination of uneven ground - bouncy run.
Maybe it would've been smarter to tow from the other end of the field?
There was cross-tail wind and uneven ground to make dolly roll faster and bounce, kicking my keel up. That's why I got the feeling of a glider flying "tail up". So at a certain point, when I felt enough speed and even saw the Dragonfly come off the ground in front of me I tried to push out. The basebar left the basebar cradle on the cart, but apparently my tail didn't leave its support. It got stuck in the cart keel support (I don't use a tail). For a second or two I kept flying straight, trying to push out without any success, and then suddenly felt a strong push down on my nose that smashed me into the ground.

3. Too much VG on

4. Tug prop downwash

I crashed right between two red cones, indicating where the tug stops when the rope is tight and then starts when the pilot is ready. Maybe I was in the prop downwash which nailed me down. Maybe I simply got a kick up to my keel that made a same effect. Keel tube had multiple dents and paint marks, which could indicate that at the moment of the crash my keel was still on the keel support on the cart.

Evidence:

1. Multiple paint scratches and dents on my keel tube.

2. Feeling that the "basebar was stuck to the cart."

3. Feeling that a glider is flying "tail up" and no matter how hard I'm pushing out - it didn't want to go higher. Even after I got rid of the cart at the base tube.

4. Strong nose down push in the end, while I was pushing out.

Glider has broken keel, front wires, LE, upright, ripped sail in several places - the impact was pretty strong. I scratched my face and had cosmetic surgery inside my mouth. All the rest is fine. Thanks to people, who helped me after the crash.

It would be nice if the carts where constructed to allow the pilot put the keel support even lower for small glider.
Yeah. She got reamed.
Davis Straub - 2011/05/16 12:36:18 UTC

Hitting the tail with the keel support (Souther field)

A few comments on Julia's accident.
Accident?
First. Because of her previous extensive international experience with aerotowing in a cart she thought it was normal and natural to at least half the time feel pinned to the cart when towing. She hadn't asked any experienced aerotow pilots whether this was in fact normal. (Of course, it isn't).
In any of her previous extensive international experience with aerotowing from a cart did anyone instruct her how to trim a glider on a cart or check to see that hers was?
Second. The small Aeros glider that she flies has a small control frame with down tubes (uprights) that are five centimeters (two inches) shorter than the Wills Wing down tubes used on the T2 144. This means that even at the lowest setting for the carts she has a lower angle of attack than other pilots in "normal" sized gliders.
What this REALLY means is that at least half of the aerotow operators she's encountered in her previous extensive international experience have been negligent in providing a safe operating environment.
This means she is likely to experience being pinned to the cart. She, and others like her need carts that allow for lower keel supports.
Duh.
Third. Witnesses noticed that back of Julia's cart bouncing in the semi rough grass field. They noticed it pushing up her keel. Black marks and dents on the keel indicated that the keel was being hit by the keel support. One way that others have solved the problem of a bouncing keel support is to deflate the rear tire. The issue of a bouncing keel support pushing up the keel is much more problematic on rough fields like at outlying airfields rather than flight parks. Carts used at rough fields need different design criteria than those used at smooth flight parks.
- The fact that nobody else was complaining about getting his keel dented indicates that this is ONLY a problem if the cart can't be trimmed properly for the glider. She's putting a lot of weight and downward force on the front end of the cart and there's no clearance between her keel and the tail bracket.

- See the guys at Ridgely for tips on ensuring that the rear tire is deflated at all times - just like the front ones. They're the pros.
Fourth. The tug got off the ground before the pilot came up off the cart. This is a very bad sign. I have never seen it happen. It means that you are seriously pinned to the cart.
Yeah.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23643
The 2011 Flytec Race and Rally - fourth day
George Stebbins - 2011/05/16 18:40:47 UTC

Yea, but it can be done. I did it once when I couldn't come off of the cart. (My Chest-mounted chute had come part-way out and caught!) But I was pre-primed to do it, as we were launching in a slight tail-wind, and I had mentally told myself that I'd pin-off if things went bad. Boy am I glad I did... I hesitate to claim I'd have done it correctly if I wasn't pre-primed.
Totally righteous stuff, dude. If you're gonna be stupid enough to use flight park equipment it's a good thing to be pre-primed to use it.

Let's see just how pre-primed you are to get to a Wallaby lever or pry back a Bailey barrel when you're NOT still on the ground trim and level and bolted down to launch dolly with two hands to spare and no major time constraints.
(And letting go to release then coming off of the cart as you let go has it's own issues, of course...)
Gregg McNamee - 1996/12

Common sense tells us that the last thing we want to do in an emergency situation is give up control of the glider in order to terminate the tow.
If your system requires you to take your hand off the control bar to actuate the release it is not suitable.
Asshole.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21879
Julia's face and half-helmets
Dan DeWeese - 2011/05/16 16:34:05 UTC
Crestline

Where were the hook up / preflight boys?
So busy looking at who knows what to notice a too low A of A on the cart?
Amen.
Casey Cox - 2011/05/16 19:07:02 UTC
Eastern North Carolina

I wonder if she had contacted the USHPA Towing Committee when she first realized a problem and if USHPA would have an obligation to investigate and recommend to towing parks and comps to modify existing carts?
- Yeah, right.
- The Towing Committee IS the towing parks and comps.

http://www.ushpa.aero/advisory.asp?id=1
USHPA - Safety Advisory #1
USHGA - 2006/03/15

Safety Notice

Though pushing out to climb to the tug altitude has been a common practice usually accomplished without incident, there is a deep underlying danger in doing this.
http://www.wallaby.com/aerotow_primer.php
Aerotow Primer for Experienced Pilots
Wallaby Ranch - 2011/05/16

Remember: it is almost impossible to stall under aerotow. The induced thrust vector makes the glider trim at a higher attitude. It is OK to push way out; you will climb, not stall.
Luen Miller - 1996/10
USHGA Accident Review Committee Chairman

We have two more fatalities because of a glider that couldn't be released from tow. I am strongly recommending formal review and analysis of releases and weak link designs for all methods of towing by the Towing Committee, and that recommendations on adoption or improvements be generated.

I believe that from preflight through release we should have more standardized procedures in towing.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21033
barrels release without any tension except weight of rope..
Bart Weghorst - 2011/02/25 19:06:26 UTC

But I've had it once where the pin had bent inside the barrel from excessive tow force. My weaklink was still intact. The tug pilot's weaklink broke so I had the rope. I had to use two hands to get the pin out of the barrel.
No stress because I was high.
I wonder if tow parks will modify existing carts now? Is this just a one time occurrence and will never happen again, or will she have to bring her own cart to a comp?
If she does don't expect Head Trauma to tow her - he doesn't do homemade 'cause it might be dangerous.
I'm not trying to stir the pot; I truly do want to help safety in the sport.
Good freakin' luck - especially on The Jack Show.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23643
The 2011 Flytec Race and Rally - fourth day
George Stebbins - 2011/05/17 00:09:25 UTC

My natural reaction to most unexpected things on tow is to release. Apparently even on the cart.
How very fortunate you are not to be one of the 99.99 percent of the pilot population whose natural reaction to most unexpected things on tow is to control the glider. They all die slamming in with their shitrigged releases closed whereas you'll die slamming in with your shitrigged release open.

You're a very special person, George.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23643
The 2011 Flytec Race and Rally - fourth day
Jim Rooney - 2011/05/17 09:21:52 UTC

No worries George...
Good err on the side of caution.
You tell 'em, Head Trauma.

ANYTHING unexpected on tow, err on the side of caution. Kill your thrust IMMEDIATELY, TOTALLY, and IRREVOCABLY - just the way the big boys do in REAL aviation!

Low and slow behind the tug, rolled and tip stalled, standing on your tail in a thermal - hit that baby on your downtube and return to Mother Earth's welcoming arms. What could possibly go wrong with that approach?

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links
Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01

Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.
Hey! You guys should tow together! The PERFECT safety team!

George will (try to) release in response to just MOST unexpected things on tow and Head Trauma will take care of all the other ones in which George foolishly decides that the idea of coming off totally sucks.
It's more of this crappy argument that being on tow is somehow safer than being off tow.
MORE of this crappy argument? So who else is trying to get through that three inch thick skull of yours to the warped little tangle of neurons in the middle?
Bill Bennett - 1974

A bad flyer won't hurt a pin man but a bad pin man can kill a flyer.
Richard Johnson - 1974

The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release.
Donnell Hewett - 1982/09

But the actual flight carried the pilot up to fifty feet, at which point the spotter tripped the safety release. The glider then stalled and crashed, breaking the control bar and fracturing the pilot's heel.
Jerry Forburger - 1990/10

Should you decide to stay on tow, continue to fly the glider and maintain the proper control movements, you will be rewarded with a tow that will pull you to a safer altitude. On the other hand, if you decide to release from the towline and change the forces affecting your flight, an immediate stall can occur. A low altitude stall is extremely dangerous and can result in uncontrolled contact with the ground.
Dave Broyles - 1990/11

I talked to a lot of pilots at Hobbs, and the consensus was that in the course of Eric Aasletten's accident, had a weak link break occurred instead of the manual or auto release that apparently did occur, the outcome would have been the same. Under the circumstances the one thing that would have given Eric a fighting chance to survive was to have remained on the towline.
Dennis Pagen - 1993/04

Next to a low stall and line break due to a gust, the event most likely to maim on tow...
Dennis Pagen - 2005/01

However Neal kept me on line until I had enough ground clearance, and I believe he saved me from injury by doing so. I gave him a heart-felt thank you.
http://ozreport.com/9.032
The Worlds - weaklinks
Davis Straub - 2005/02/07

For a couple of years I have flown with a doubled weaklink because, flying with a rigid wing glider, I have found that there is little reason to expect trouble on tow, except from a weaklink break.
http://www.ushpa.aero/advisory.asp?id=1
USHPA - Safety Advisory #1
USHGA - 2006/03/15

Safety Notice

If the glider is low on tow, the tug pilot should attempt to speed up and to descend to the altitude of the towed glider, releasing the tow rope only as a last resort.
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2266
Nuno Fontes - Hang Gliding Towing Accident.
Nuno Fontes - 2006/05/27

The best option seemed to be to resist the lock out and slowly bring the glider down, even if it was crooked, but another problem arose when the observer had the towline cut when I was down to about fifty feet.

I had no chance. The glider that had been hanging on like a kite dead leafed to the ground. The left leading edge hit first, destroying it along with the nose plates. My body's impact point was the left shoulder and the left side of my head and neck.

I remained unconscious for about twenty minutes with a bloody face from what poured from my nose. The chopper arrived about an hour after the crash.
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question
Danny Brotto - 2008/11/04 12:49:44 UTC

I held on tight gaining airspeed until the downwind wing began flying, got in behind the tug, and continued the flight.
Sunny later told be he was about to give me the rope and I thanked him to no end that he didn't.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hhpa/message/9351
Just a Tad to the Right
John Moody - 2010/02/03 22:09 UTC

Even Mike Meier argued it is usually better to stay on the rope if you can.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up
Jim Rooney - 2009/11/03 06:16:56 UTC

God I love the ignore list
Yeah, assholes like you always do.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Donnell Hewett - 1980/12

Now I've heard the argument that "Weak links always break at the worst possible time, when the glider is climbing hard in a near stall situation," and that "More people have been injured because of a weak link than saved by one." Well...
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links
Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 19:49:30 UTC

It's more of this crappy argument that being on tow is somehow safer than being off tow.
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21879
Julia's face and half-helmets
Glenn Zapien - 2011/05/17 14:34:18 UTC
Ceres, California

I hope Julia is well and not deterred from this accident.
Wouldn't worry, Glenn. Nobody in hang gliding is EVER deterred from ANY "accident". But don't take my word for it - just read the fatality reports.
I have no doubts she is a kick ass pilot.
Who cares?
No, better make that - So what?
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://mywebtimes.com/archives/ottawa/display.php?id=213106
2005/11/03 23:00

Tammie Sloup
tammies@mywebtimes.com
815-431-4048

The La Salle County coroner's jury made the following inquest rulings on Thursday:

The deaths of two men who died in a hang-glider crash September 3 near Cushing Field near Newark were ruled accidental.
Yeah, right.
Hang glider instructor Arlan Birkett, 47, of Mission Township, and Jeremiah Thompson, 32, of Chicago, were found dead in a cornfield near Route 71 after their hang glider nosedived after detaching from the ultralight that was towing them.
The glider didn't "detach". The front end weak link blew. The front end weak link isn't supposed to blow until a hundred pounds after the back end. But, hey, this is hang gliding so, what the fuck, it's just a suggestion. And it doesn't matter anyway 'cause, hey, this is hang gliding and there are no minimum ratings for anything - 'cause if there were people would get their asses sued off while idling their time away in prison for negligent homicide.
Witnesses said the two men, who were riding tandem, were practicing taking off and landing and they were about 250 feet in the air when they lost control and broke free from the tow line.
Bullshit.
An airplane towed the hang glider into the air, with plans to reach 3,000 feet before the cable was released and their tandem hang glide began, an attorney said.
- You don't go up to three grand to practice taking off and landing.
The weak link broke from the tow plane side. The towline was found underneath the wreck, and attached to the glider by the weaklink. The glider basically fell on the towline.
- They didn't break free from the towline.

- They lost control AFTER and BECAUSE OF losing their engine at a high angle of attack - not the other way around.
There did not appear to be any equipment failure, a detective with the Sheriff's Office testified.
Yeah Sherlock? They blow a front end weak link in smooth air when there's nothing going on in the way of an out of control situation and the glider falls 250 feet with a fluttering trailing edge and no hint of dive recovery - and there did not appear to be any equipment failure?

So this was just a routine shit happens tandem hang glider tow?

Did ya ever figure out who was behind the attack on Pearl Harbor? (My money's on Paraguay.)
The detective said because they were only 250 feet above ground, their parachutes did not have time to deploy.
How many parachutes were they using? How close to deployment were they at the time of impact?
Both men died from multiple blunt force trauma. Toxicology results were negative for Birkett, and Thompson's blood alcohol content was .01.
What were the toxicology results for the La Salle County coroner's jury and the Sheriff's Office detective? Did any of them get free USHGA T-shirts after the verdict was reached? Were any of those douchebags on the jury in the Bob Wills wrongful death suit?
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Not that it was relevant in this situation but...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23689
Julia Kucherenko
Image

Confirmation of Julia's "release" system. (Big surprise.)

And check out the little tribute to global incompetence in grade school science she's proudly displaying on her neck.
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Re: instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

Post by Zack C »

I was searching for some weak link information in my email archives and came across these posts from a local comp pilot. I figured you'd have fun with this, Tad. I'm guessing this is the general mentality of the experienced pilots that swear by 130 lb Greenspot.
Weak links break for a reason, usually pilot error.

Here's my all up weight;

pilot: 260 lbs
Harness & 'chute: 30 lbs
Glider: 75 lbs

TOTAL: 365 lbs

I use a single loop of Courtland 130 lb test braided dacron IGFA fishing line as a weak link. I use my weak links for about ten tows then replace it "just in case". You'll need to replace your weak link much more often if your release mechanism pulls through your weak link.

No one should ever consider using more than a single loop of the 130 lb braded dacron unless you are flying tandem!
The 130 lb test line breaks soon enough for light pilots, and holds long enough for heavy pilots. Sort of like aspirin, everybody takes two.
The 130# stuff breaks when is supposed to due to stress concentration at an attachment point. Also, the 130# line is well proven as is has been in use for at least the last 13 years.

Pilots as light as Corina to as heavy as me use the 130# IGFA line as a weak link. I believe that the HGFA has even specified this material for use in their towing standards.

If you need more proof, maybe try wanging yourself off the tow line one day to prove to yourself that it works.
I once heard him verbally state that "people who break weak links don't know what the fuck they're doing". I found it surprising given his weight...I don't think he'd make a statement like that if he broke weak links. Maybe you can reduce the odds of breaking these weak links by the way you fly. But even if that's true, it hardly matters.

Zack
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