instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21494
Hydraulic Winch Tows - Safety

GoIllini - 2011/04/11 20:45:16 UTC

Guys,

My instructor is thinking about doing some hydraulic winch towing as part of getting us to Hang 2. I'm pretty comfortable with foot launches from the training hill, but I am a little concerned with the potential for lockout in hydraulic winch towing.

Does anyone have any experience with this? Also, are there any other risks I have to be aware of that aren't involved with foot launches?

I've got a great instructor, but I got a couple second opinions before I decided that foot launches were an acceptable risk. Just wanted to do the same for hydraulic winch towing.

Thanks!

Dennis Wood - 2011/04/11 21:07:50 UTC
Suffolk, Virginia

how experienced is your instructor with the type of towing involved. if he is not totally comfortable and knowledgeable, go somewhere where there are peeps what do it regular like. towing ain't like footlaunch. and don't let anyone tell you it is.

- Who gives a rat's ass how experienced he is? There are tons of highly experienced people in this game who should be treated like plutonium.
- If he's totally comfortable in hang glider towing - or any other flavor of aviation - avoid him like the plague.
- Good freakin' luck finding someone more than about a third knowledgeable.

GoIllini - 2011/04/11 21:22:48 UTC

He built his own system about ten to fifteen years ago and ran it big time out of an up until three or four years back - has a number of thank you notes about hydraulic winch towing posted on his bulletin board, but he hasn't done it in a few years.

Problem - Dead people don't right thank you notes. (And if they do they don't have theirs posted on the bulletin board.)

He seems pretty confident about it. He is pretty darned sure that lockout is "impossible" on a hydraulic winch tow because you basically guarantee a constant tension on the line once you set the tension, "unlike scooter towing and truck towing, even aerotowing".

It's absolutely astounding that people like this get Hang One ratings - let alone instructor tickets.

I trust the guy -

Zack C - 2010/12/13 04:58:15 UTC

I had a very different mindset too back then and trusted the people that made my equipment. Since then I've realized (largely due to this discussion) that while I can certainly consider the advice of others, I can't trust anyone in this sport but myself (and maybe the people at Wills Wing).

"NEVER trust ANYONE in hang gliding" should probably come right after "ALWAYS assume you are NOT HOOKED IN" in rules to live by in our sport.

I just wanted to get a few other thoughts about how safe this really is and whether I should really be pushing him for the 300 foot training hill instead.

He's probably just as likely to kill you there. Flip a coin.

Dennis Wood - 2011/04/11 21:31:45 UTC

wow. that must be one really good setup if lock-outs are impossible.

You're serious, aren't you?

i'm glad that he does have experience w/ tow and teaching it to a student pilot. towing is a good way to get in a lot of landings in a session. USE WHEELS in case of less than stellar launches. i don't think wheel landings teach anything other than an emergency technique.

Yeah, peanuts... The smart people in this sport recognize that the standup landing is actually only good for emergency landings.

have fun.

Take a look at Boy Oyng's account of his foot launch stationary winch training experience and decide whether you want to have fun or take off and land on your feet.

Diev Hart - 2011/04/11 21:43:32 UTC
Santa Cruz, California

...He seems pretty confident about it. He is pretty darned sure that lockout is "impossible" on a hydraulic winch tow because you basically guarantee...

I trust the guy- ...

BIG FLAG tells me no way would I tow with him...

I'm starting to really like this person.

Keep control of your glider (keep foot launching and leaving the ground on your own) (don't let someone (like this) pull you...yet)...

Towing is so much different from foot launching...but if you are going to be towing after this learning then...maybe...just please be ready and get good at releasing early...

Nevertheless... Sorry Diev, telling people to keep control of their gliders on tow and get good at releasing early is about as useful as telling them to always remember to hook in and to never hit an oncoming car that's just swerved into your lane.

Really just my thoughts...

Mike Lake - 2011/04/11 22:13:35 UTC
UK

If there is enough tension to get you up, there is enough tension to get you locked out.

And kill you before you can blink.

If done incorrectly you can equally screw up a tow/hill/ramp or cliff launch.
If done correctly it is a fantastic way to get airborne.
Don't focus all you attention on the dreaded lockout - other things are equally or more important.
Sh** rigged releases, no wheels, weak-links that dump you when you are that feet up to name but a few.

That pretty much eliminates all his US towing options.

bagbgone - 2011/04/11 22:48:05 UTC
Santa Cruz, California

I'm with Diev and others. I earned my H2 on a similar tow setup. I probably towed up sixty times or so.

It can be a great way to get airtime when you are learning if done properly (way less breakdown and hiking time involved).

Lockouts are a result of improper technique and can happen on any tow setup.

Bullshit. Lockouts are very rarely the result of improper technique and almost always the result of the same shit that throws free flying gliders temporarily out of control. They can and do happen at any time the air's worth towing up into and to anybody - no matter what it says on his card or where he's listed in the competition standings.

While the ride down is pure flying the ride up is not and requires a slightly different skill set.

One element of which - with virtually all of the equipment widely available - is the ability to control a locking out glider with one hand. So denial is also a biggie.

I had a few exciting moments learning on tow.

Yes. Haven't we all.

Once the release was wound up and would not release as I passed over the pulleys. I had to do some unnatural flying to get it to break away rather than get pulled back to the ground.

- Yeah, the Voight/Rooney Technique. Good one to have in your quiver - if you're a big fan of Voight/Rooney Shitrigged Releases.
- I seem to have heard of an incident three months and two days ago but I can't quite place it.

Another time I had a wheel blowout on the cart we were using, sending me skidding at 20 mph or so while prone.

Lemme guess... Florida Ridge? They should take a hint from Ridgely and leave all three tires totally flat all season from about April on.

Moral of the story. It works, but there is more going on, and more to be prepared for as a beginner. If you asked me if I wanted a free day of towing now, I'd probably pass, I know too much and foot-launching is readily available around here, safer, and simpler flying.

Bob Flynn - 2011/04/12 01:53:15 UTC
Jacksonville, North Carolina

My first flight was a scooter tow that resulted in a lockout. I didn't have any muscle memory trained into me yet so when the glider went right, I went along for the ride until I realized "hey, wait a minute, I'm supposed to correct for this". By that time it was too late. Result: one severely bent downtube and one bruised ego. I got lucky. Any towed wing can go into lockout.

Note also - despite everything you've ever heard - that the weak link didn't blow to keep things safe.

Jason Rogers - 2011/04/12 04:43:38 UTC
Port Macquarie, New South Wales

I *personally* feel that towing is outside my comfort zone now. I've got experience on both ends of the rope but it's just too scary for me. Too complex, too many cooks, too many things that can go wrong over which the pilot (or winch driver) has little or no control.

- Complexity tends to get a bad rap in hang gliding - sometimes it's bad, sometimes it's good. A release mechanism with a reverse tapering gate - like the one on our sacred spinnaker shackle - is, relative to one with a uniform gate, bad. A glider with wheels is more complex than one without - do the math.

- Relative to slope launching... Some of the aspects of towing add dangerous complexity, others subtract it. I'd say that on the balance you are or can be better off on the flats on that issue.

- The ACTIONS required for a foot launch are a lot more complex and dangerous than those required for a dolly or platform launch.

- You only need two cooks, although it's often useful to have a fairly harmless waiter at launch. After the glider starts moving you DEFINITELY don't want any more than two cooks and the other one DEFINITELY has to know what he's doing - but he doesn't hafta be a rocket scientist and you're almost always free to take him out of the equation at any point you feel like it.

- With heavy weak links and the proper engineering you have or can have a lot more control over the things that can go wrong than is usually the case the way things are normally conducted.

John Fritsche - 2011/04/12 03:10:44 UTC
Lompoc, California

Many years ago, when I was more fearless, I did around twenty static line truck tows. They all went great and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Now I would be too chicken to do any ground-based towing for the reasons mentioned above. But you'll find a lot of people with a lot of successful experience with every type of towing. Tow-launch pilots who are really on the ball probably have a safety record comparable to foot launchers.

If they're launching off of platforms and dollies they almost certainly blow away the free flight record.

If you go for it, just realize that there is an added degree of complexity.

Also realize that if you do rolling launches and landings there's a lot of reduced complexity and there are now trees, rocks, or cliffs around. (And you can set up, take off, and land next to your car.)

Be very meticulous and anal about procedure, and be sure everyone else involved is too. Follow a checklist.

People don't get fucked up in towing because they're not meticulous and anal about procedure and failing to follow checklist. People get fucked up in towing because their meticulous and anal procedures and checklists include shitrigged equipment, light weak links, and default tension dumps and having everybody assume that everybody's hooked in at the moment of launch.

Casey Cox - 2011/04/12 14:43:54 UTC
Eastern North Carolina

Golllini,

I have never foot launched and have only platform launched and aero towed, so I can not compare but I can give you my two cents.

Lockouts use to occur more often than now even though lockouts still happen. Some reasons for lockouts are: the glider was towed too fast as with a trike, pilot not reacting to tow force fast enough, glider being towed instead of pilot and glider or pilot through harness, pilot induced oscillation, and towing angle too great. Most lockouts have been eliminated by: aero tugs that fly slower than a trike, proper training, towing from pilot though harness, gliders designed for towing to eliminate yaw, new payout winches.

I'm not buying glider design and perfectly good payout winches have around since the dawn of civilization.

It seems there are two launch methods for platform towing and may differ with the type of winch. (1) tow up with constant pressure...

If the pressure's constant the tension won't be.

...at almost constant angle. (2) pay out more line than altitude gain for low angle, then slow tow to payout less but increase angle and altitude. It seems your instructor is proficient towing with his type of winch.

I'm not trying to make it sound complicated, it's just more checks and something new to you. I think today I would be less concerned with a lockout than making sure to steer clear of the line retrieval kite. You already know how to fly the glider so it's just the delivery into the air that is different. But it's like anything else; if your instructor or you think you are not ready then don't do.

If he never goes how's he ever gonna get ready?

Towing will open up more sites and opportunity for flying as well as the opportunity to do more sled rides to practice landings.

Or just land on your wheels so that you don't need to practice landings and will increase your odds of coming through the sport with your downtubes and arms intact for a few years.

One of the best things about towing is you see others' takeoffs, flying, and landings. I think a tow park has good camaraderie, easier to pack up glider and meet more pilots.

Don't get too chummy. Always remember Survival Rule 2:
Never trust anyone in hang gliding.

By the way; my very first flight was solo by platform boat tow. I prevented a lockout at 150 feet by releasing the tow line. I'm not proud of this fact and consider myself lucky but do not think it would have happened if I had flown before either by solo foot launch or tandem.

The two most useless things; altitude above and landing field behind.

A release lever an the basetube can occasionally make it up there with tits on a bull as well.

Devin Wagner - 2011/04/12 22:36:44 UTC
Yankton, South Dakota

peanuts lockouts are almost impossible on my rig. ive tried to do it

Yeah, it's always when people are doing the opposite that it seems to become a problem.

Allen Sparks - 2011/04/13 03:22:20 UTC
Evergreen, Colorado

There are more things to consider than lockouts. Plenty more.

I'll list a few more things to consider.

What is the checklist for this tow operation? If there is no checklist, don't tow. If there is a checklist, is it adequate?

What are the signals between the operator and pilot?

- Why aren't there universal/international standards for tow operation signals consistent with sailplaning that every operator is required to have down one hundred percent before he gets his ticket?

- What's your signal for "I did a hang check in the setup area fifteen minutes ago so hit the gas already."?

Does the operator have clear visibility of the pilot?

Does the operator or launch assistant have clear visibility of the pilot's carabiner?

Are you using radios for in-flight signals?

Make sure the operator has hook-knife in hand and is ready and willing to cut the line. Do you have a hook-knife and will you be ready to cut the line in the event of a failure to release?

Yeah. DEFINITELY. Have a hook knife (on orange one) and always be ready to start hacking away. That's saved SO MANY tow pilots from the instant death they would've otherwise experienced. If only Shane had been ready with a hook knife.

What type of release are you using?

Well OBVIOUSLY, Spark - shitrigged. Why else would we be having this idiot discussion about hook knives?

Could it fail to release?

OF COURSE IT COULD!!! And WILL!!!

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22660
What can be learned from this "scooter" towing accident?

Jim Rooney - 2011/02/06 18:35:13 UTC

The minute someone starts telling me about their "perfect"system, I start walking away.

It's just a fundamental truth of hang gliding that it's impossible to make a release that works as well as a VG system. If it could be done everybody would be using them.

Could it release prematurely?

You deaf or something? Yeah, these things ALWAYS malfunction in multiple ways. Besides, if everybody is using half G weak links (like you are) how come we're the least bit concerned about whether or not it releases prematurely?

Is there a backup release?

And what do you think the half G weak link and hook knife are there for?

Ask yourself ... what could go wrong? and make a list. Expand the list.

For a Wallaby release? How much bandwidth do I get?

If something can go wrong ... it will.

http://ozreport.com/9.009
2005 Worlds

Davis Straub - 2005/01/11

Rohan Holtkamp did an analysis of the accident, in particular the bridle and weaklink, which never broke. The weaklink was caught on the release mechanism, a standard spinnaker release found on bridle systems used at Lookout Mountain, Moyes, Wallaby Ranch, and Quest Air. The release clamp has an arm that is thicker at the release point and this held onto the weaklink which consisted of multiple loops of thick line.

This type of release mechanism has been banned (at least for a short while) from the Worlds at Hay.

And WHEN it does at altitude we go to our backups. And WHEN things finally all line up right down low we ban the mechanism, at least for a short while, wait until everybody settles down a bit, and then put it back up and continue ignoring the frequent failures at altitude.

Tow operations can be a great way to get airtime. The operation needs to have a good procedure (checklist), good equipment, good operator and crew (i.e. attendant).

Yeah, the operation NEEDS TO. Good luck finding one that actually DOES.

I don't want to dissuade you from towing, just to point out some of the safety considerations.

I have a friend who was badly injured in a tow operations that was missing some key safety elements - thus my emphasis.

Yeah, the tow operation WAS missing some key safety elements - a launch dolly and a procedure which precludes the driver from touching the gas unless the pilot's connection to the glider has been positively confirmed the INSTANT before.

But your friend has been missing some key safety elements since he started flying in the Seventies. And the fact that you didn't say anything worth hearing after Yossi bought it last weekend and aren't addressing the issue now either are indications that you are too.

There are tow operations I will participate in and those I would not.

I agree with about half of that. I hardly know of any that I'd trust.

Jim Gaar - 2011/04/13 05:37:23 UTC
Roeland Park, Kansas

Speak of the devil...

...ALMOST impossible...

(my emphasis on "almost")

So then, as has been said, they are possible on any rig.

Zack C - 2011/04/15 03:26:18 UTC
Houston

Hi Zack. How come nobody told me about this one? (Maybe you could try to get this guy over here when you have a moment.)

After over a hundred each of hill/mountain launches, aerotows, and surface tows, I feel that platform launching is the safest way to get a hang glider into the air.

Mike Lake - 2011/04/15 13:09:47 UTC

In many instances hill flying is a bit more of an individual thing, whereas towing is a team event and generally a bit more 'regimented'.
A good tow setup with good procedures in place can (and does) compensate for any extra gotchas. This is most important.
Tow launching is now by far my preferred method of launch.

Poor equipment/techniques and/or lack of good procedure. This is what makes 'normal' HG pilots a bit suspect of towing. We see time and time again people getting hurt or worse because, despite easy global communication, the same mistakes are made and repeated every few years.

Well, the global communication SHOULD be easy. But you've got fingers belonging to people like Davis and Jack on the buttons - so we DO get the same "mistakes" are made and repeated every few years.

Casey Cox - 2011/04/15 15:23:15 UTC

One would be surprised how prevalent towing has been and still is. The east coast has many platform tow pilots. Many live on lakes or rivers and have never had a rating. Cypress Gardens and Epcot had shows as well as many ski clubs in the East and Wisconsin that used gliders in ski shows.

There is a friend in my home town that started out boat towing around '82 with the ski rope paying out of a laundry basket and doing pop starts. He then got an old Cypress Gardens winch. He flew around the Statue of Liberty around '83. I don't think he has even done a platform launch because he is so use to pop starts.

A platform launch IS a pop start. That's why - as Zack says - it IS the safest way to get a hang glider into the air.

He did have a ballistic chute on his harness. That's just the way things were done, just like pilots used to fly without a chute at all.

Towing has gotten safer through the years...

Nah, it pretty much peaked out about twenty years ago and then started creeping back down as the people who've never had any original ideas in their lives started replacing all the pioneers.

...just as HG in general has gotten safer.

I think more pilots would platform tow if winches were more reasonably priced.

I'm not advocating reckless flying, non-instruction, or not getting ratings but just making a statement.

And here I am thinking that if the flight parks weren't controlling the instruction and ratings a little common sense might start filtering into the environment and things might start improving again.

[Tad Eareckson]

Hugh McElrath - 2009/03/18

Re: second channel

Sorry I didn't reply immediately. I am caucusing with the BoD. Let me just say that I don't think you were the only sinner on the forum - others sort of ganged up on you and backed you into a corner. We are working on a formula whereby you promise to be good, use no language that a reasonable man might consider to be "fightin' words" (this goes considerably beyond George Carlin's seven words you can't say on television), KEEP YOUR POSTS SHORTER, and stay in whatever "aerotow release technical discussions" topic gets established (for posts about that topic). I also plan to say something to the general audience about decorum and not ganging up on someone that has a unique viewpoint. If that makes the forum less interesting, so be it. Gimme a couple more days to operate - as you may have seen, we just lost Matthew and Karen from the board and need to elect new officers. - Hugh

P.S. I still have and am willing to pay for the one- and two-point releases you made for me. I still need more edumacation about how to set them up - the single briefing you gave me in the parking lot in Bowie has faded. Not sure whether I will be out at Ridgely Saturday (kid has an event). I have already moved on to the sailplane club in Front Royal (working on both glider license and getting qualified to fly the tow planes), but I'm still in the hang- and paragliding games (I presume you can see posts but not write to the forum - check out my "blog" on my and Ellis' PG trip to New Zealand for a maneuvers course.).

Tad Eareckson - 2009/11/01

updates

Hi again Hugh,

So how's the ol' caucusing doing?

Or did everyone just decide that everything we've been doing the same way we were doing it thirty years ago is just perfect or we wouldn't have been doing it the same way for thirty years? And anybody with a different point of view isn't worth listening to and it's OK to make up the rules as you go along to permanently silence and ostracize him?

Last year I caddied for you at the ECC and drove retrieval for you (and Ashley) from Jenkins, wasn't it?

I spent about a zillion hours and a lot of bucks to custom build you the best release system on the planet. I don't know how much it's worth to you but, trust me, relative to the eight hundred dollar parachute in your chest container it:

cost a helluva lot more in labor and materials (to say nothing of designing a one of a kind); and

is one helluva lot more likely to keep you from getting crushed on a field.

I spent a Saturday and a Sunday at Ridgely to fly it to check the trim but never got it or anything else off the ground 'cause both tugs fell apart.

At the beginning of this season I asked you to give me a buzz when you were heading over so I could get you checked out but that never happened.

So, so far, all I've gotten from you for my efforts and expenditures is twenty bucks. That almost pays for HALF of ONE of those little Wichard 2470 stainless steel snap shackles that goes on your shoulder tow loops.

But - hey - that's twenty bucks more than I've gotten for a couple one point assemblies I made up for Paul Adamez and Dennis Pagen COMBINED. (Zero is also the figure I asked for when Jim Rooney asked me to make him an assembly. I got a lot less.) Guess I shoulda learned after I made an assembly for Ric Niehaus and practically had to threaten physical violence the better part of a year later to recover the cost of materials.

I really don't understand this sort of thing 'cause I know how I'd feel screwing someone over this way. Can you explain it to me?

http://ozreport.com/15.079
Hugh McElrath's paragliding accident
2011/04/20 12:39:42 UTC
http://www.facebook.com/hugh.mcelrath

Oz Report - 2011/04/20

Hugh McElrath's paragliding accident

More broken things that we care to contemplate.

Hugh writes - 2011/04/19 - (using a scribe):

I was observing Ann Dunlap hang gliding yesterday at Daniels. She had her first soaring flight! I launched my paraglider after she landed.

I had a good flight, got to 600' over and came out to land after twenty five minutes. The LZ was not scary. At twenty feet the glider surged in front of me and I pounded in hard.

I broke both of my legs at boot top with open fracture of tibia on right. I also broke my right wrist and shattered the L1 vertebra.

Ann handled the emergency superbly. ER squad immediately ordered a helicopter. I am in UVA hospital. Nine hours to reconstruct vertebra and reduce open fracture. Just had filter installed in vena cava to prevent blood clots from invading lungs. Further surgeries coming for both legs and wrist. I can wiggle my toes!

Hugh is a USHPA Regional Director and hang glider pilot in the Washington DC area. He just retired from the federal government. He posted this on Facebook and I obtained his permission to repost it here.

Thanks, God. When do you think you'll be able to get to the next item on my list?

[Tad Eareckson]

Hugh, Linda, AND Spark in a period of just FIVE DAYS!!! Wow. What's that, my Easter bonus?

Really appreciate it but it's OK if you space them out a bit. And, besides, I'm perfectly cool with you spending a little more time dealing with Fukushima and Libya right now. I've waited years since the last times you did Davis and Rooney - another two or three weeks won't make much difference.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/Hang_Gliding_Safety_Tips
Hang Gliding Safety Tips - Hang Gliding Wiki

Jack Axaopoulos - 2011/04/18 22:50

Hang Gliding Safety Tips

Pre-flight glider

Walk 360 degrees around your glider, checking key areas; bolts, ropes, wires, battons, wing tips, etc. Run your hands along the leading edge to verify there are no LE mylar bends, check for symmetry. Pre-flight harness ropes/straps. Repeat if interrupted.

And under no circumstances should you load test the sidewires - even if it tells you to in the owner's manual. Red Howard advises against this so you should definitely ignore Wills Wing.

Hang Check Routine

Either hook-in your harness as part of your glider set-up (best method), and/or always hang check. Make sure harness lines are not twisted. Check your harness legs straps are secure. Develop a routine and use it every time.

And under no circumstances should you do a hook-in check within a couple of seconds of launch - as required under USHGA regulations. 'Cause once you've developed a ROUTINE that you use EVERY TIME you can ALWAYS be ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE that when you're standing at the front end of the ramp under a glider you are DEFINITELY connected to it.

And you can ALWAYS assume that ANYBODY ELSE standing at the front of a ramp under a glider is also DEFINITELY connected to it 'cause he would've UNDOUBTEDLY developed his own routine which he ALSO uses EVERY TIME, including - OBVIOUSLY - this one.

Hang Strap and Carabineer

Be careful changing or adjusting your hang strap. Small hang loop position changes can affect the flight characteristics of your glider. Use a locked, steel carabineer.

Yes. Make sure that your CARABINEER is locked 'cause otherwise it WILL come open in flight and you WILL die instantly. Unless you're flying over water. Then make sure it's not locked so you don't drown. And over water unlocked carabiners never come open. And even if they did... hell, you're flying over water.

Helmets, parachutes and gear

Buy the best full-face helmet and parachute. Re-pack yearly. Helmet choice is a personal perference so choose either open face or full face but make sure it has the padding that is needed to absorb impact.

Yeah. Always get one with the padding NEEDED to absorb impact. And since open versus full face is just a personal PERFERENCE just get whatever best fits your budget or has the coolest colors - or just flip a coin. And if you don't have anything protecting your face just get a helmet with extra padding around your skull to make up for it.

Be cautious with changes

Be careful with new gear, or making changes. Small changes (wires, tip tuning, sail, mounting a camera, etc) ) can have a big effect on flying characteristics. Adding extra gear, like a drogue chute, can be useful in cases, but it can also cause accidents (such as when a drogue chute is deployed above the basetube). Think through any change to your glider and gear.

But use whatever tow equipment the flight park assures you is safe and reliable. Those guys are the pros after all.

Avoid towing lockouts and dolly accidents

Lock-outs on tow can happen quickly. Both aerotow and static tow lockouts can occur. Follow the tug, know how to react, and release early if there is a problem. Use a 3 point release, that you can release from in <2 seconds. Tow with a fin. Don't push out at the start of the tow; if your weak link breaks, you could be in a stall and too low to recover. Before towing, make sure no lines are caught on the tow dolly. On aerotow, don't get low behind the tug - you will either hit the rotor from the tow plane or have to push out (stalled if released).

Yeah. As long as you've got a release that you can blow in under two second while maintaining a firm grip on the basetube with one hand during a test when you're on a dolly in the staging area you can be ABSOLUTELY SURE that you'll be able to do the same thing on tow with the glider remaining just as stable and under control the whole time.

Think of it like a bicycle for which you need to take both hands off the handlebars for the mere two seconds you need to hit the brakes. Plenty of safety margin there.

And always release early if there is a problem. Low and slow behind the tug? Rolled with your low wing stalled? RELEASE!!! End of problem!

And if you read disturbing accounts of gliders being nearly upside down in less than two seconds with no indication of a problem beforehand... Just ignore them, probably never happen to you.

High wind launch - wire crew

If you do launch in winds >20 mph, use a wire crew. Make sure to brief them on what to say and do. Use hang glider pilots to wire. If you use non-pilots, train them on how to wire before walking out to launch.

And if anyone requests that you verify that you're hooked in just prior to launch replace him with a wuffo. You don't need that kind of distraction - especially when everybody just saw you do a hang check at the back of the ramp two minutes ago.

Stall, spin, tumble

Any hg wing can tuck, tumble and spin. Knowing your glider speeds, and keeping your airspeed is important in preventing tumbles and spins. Never, ever stall or slip near the ground.

Except when you're landing - that's when you wanna whipstall it.

Landing Approach

Most poor landings are a direct result of a poor landing pattern approach. Pick a big landing field, that is uncrowded. Be conservative. Don't get close to tree tops. Take a long final, come in with sufficient speed, use the basebar, and avoid turns close to the ground. Watch for your basetube getting caught.

Yeah, always stay WELL CLEAR of the tree tops at the downwind edge of the field. And never worry about the tree trunks at the upwind - cross that bridge when you get to it.

Use Wheels

Unless you are in perfect tune with your glider, use wheels. They can save you in downwind landings, thermally active landing areas, or a premature jump off a tow cart. Locking wheels will allow you to ground your glider in high winds.

And after about two to four years when you reach that state of perfection you can say goodbye to those dorky wheels and advertise your status as an elite MASTER of the air to one and all with a clean and empty basetube.

Just like in NASCAR racing - The really GOOD drivers that never crash tend not to use restraint harnesses or fire suppression systems - or helmets. Come to think of it, why are you still using a helmet? Or parachute?

But remember to ALWAYS use a locking carabiner. That one is non negotiable.

Perfect your landing skills

Many pilots do not have sufficient landing skills. Practice. This is a skill that we can always improve. Don't fly with uncoated front wires. Make sure your harness can not throw you under the glider nose in a whack. And at some point you will whack hard, so learn how to whack properly to avoid injury (let go of down tubes, arms balled up in front of you).

Yeah buddy, this ain't like Cessna flying where you just roll it in on the wheels and everybody has sufficient landing skills and doesn't really need to practice much 'cause it's pretty brain dead easy. This is something that you can ALWAYS improve a great deal no matter how many thousands of flights you've had.

And at some point you WILL whack HARD - especially after you've gotten in perfect tune with your glider and taken the wheels off. This is just an inevitable part of hang gliding so don't start thinking you're better than everybody else - or questioning the sanity of trying to whipstall the glider at the precise proper instant every flight and having your hands on the downtubes in the first place. Just learn how to let go as you crash 'cause - sure as death and taxes - you WILL. And figure on breaking an arm or two in the course of your hang gliding career 'cause damn near everyone you're gonna meet in the sport has already.

And either don't fly high aspect ratio gliders or make sure your suspension keeps you a foot or two over the basetube so's you don't get a nose plate in the back of your neck.

(Hey Jack... We're supposed to "perfect our landing skills" but "this is a skill that we can always improve"? Isn't this a bit of a disconnect? How are we EVER gonna be able to get rid of those damnable wheels if we can NEVER perfect our landings?)

Talk to locals, Don't fly first

Let an experienced local pilot, who knows the site intimately, launch first. Talk to them about conditions; weigh their opinion heavily. Don't be a wind dummy unless you are 100% sure of conditions.

Yeah, just like in general aviation... Every airport is different and you always wanna get the opinions of the locals so you can do it right.

Knee pad

If you are in tuned with your glider or just do not like the idea of wheels. Think about wearing knee pads. It only takes one knee drop on a rock to do damage to your knee.

Yeah, didn't we already establish that wheels suck and are a universal badge of dorkiness? Knee pads are concealed in your harness just about all the time so no one really need know that you're not totally confident in your mastery of the air.

Tomorrow we'll discuss how to take award winning photos of your kids playing with Grizzly cubs - safely.

And then we'll have a serious discussion about how to identify dangerous total douchebags like Jack, Davis, and Peter Birren and their loyal cult members.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=11497
Aerotow release options?

Tad Eareckson - 2009/07/04 00:46:06 UTC

...
The Hewett bridle is totally incompatible with the incorporation of a release which the pilot can be assured of being able to actuate without losing control of the glider. It put the focus on tension distribution at the expense of bulletproof release actuation.
...
1. There IS NO SUCH THING as "the limit for safe operation" with respect to tow line tension 'cause you can get killed BECAUSE you have ZERO tension (ask Helen) and you can be perfectly safe under tension which falls just shy of the point at which your port cross spar is gonna buckle.
...
5. One G was pulled out of a hat and that's the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM to which you wanna commit to losing the tow no matter how you're being pulled. Sailplanes shoot for about 1.4 Gs for aerotowing and for surface based towing use either the same weak link or the next notch up.
...
So now that we're aerotowing in a configuration which is IDEAL for proper actuation strategies we ignore the obvious solutions in the very much mistaken belief that our weak links will pop or we'll be able to push the bar out and blow them in time to avoid cratering. Lotsa luck.
...

Jack Axaopoulos - 2009/07/04 01:08:20 UTC

You really need to stop with exaggerating to the point of lying, just to try to make your point, its annoying and misleading.

If you are under ZERO tension, then you are simply a hang glider flying. You DO know how to fly a fricken glider dont you????

Tad Eareckson - 2009/07/04 11:50:50 UTC

Nope. I just know how to read, observe, and think.

Two things I'm sure of - death and taxes.

And one of the factors that goes into the first thing...

When you lose tow tension your angle of attack goes way up.

And if your angle of attack was way too high to begin with, your hang glider may not ever again be of any use to you or anyone else.

http://www.ushpa.aero/sb_1.asp
Safety Notice regarding the conduct of HG Aerotow Tandem operations

Though pushing out to climb to the tug altitude has been a common practice usually accomplished without incident, there is a deep underlying danger in doing this. Should the tandem glider become unattached from the tug during this maneuver, the nose high attitude of the tandem glider attained while doing this will cause a very abrupt stall which will result in a much greater altitude loss than one would expect (possibly more than 750 ft.) The most extreme cases may result in structural failure of the glider.

But of course solo gliders - here in the US as in the UK - are immune to the laws of physics so folk flying alone should ignore this advisory and conduct themselves in accordance with:

http://www.wallaby.com/aerotow_primer.php

And even if solos WERE susceptible to this alleged "stall" phenomenon, something else - like an engine problem, release malfunction, or weak link failure - would hafta go wrong first. And what are the odds of something like THAT happening?

Jack Axaopoulos - 2009/07/04 12:13:01 UTC

Bullshit.

a) only the pilot can let the angle of attack increase when you lose tension. Thats 100% on the pilot. You are simply wrong and misleading again.

b) "And if your angle of attack was way too high to begin with..." Which should never be the case or youre making a pilot error. Again, you are misleading people.

This is the problem I have with you. You attempt to fallaciously attribute pilot errors to issues of mechanical towing devices or other things.

Sorry... but if you suddenly lose power, your nose just doesnt pop

Mike Lake - 2009/07/04 12:16:32 UTC
UK

At the risk of death threats...

...much mistaken belief that our weak links will pop or we'll be able to push the bar out and blow them in time to avoid cratering. Lotsa luck.

I admire the undoubted skill and bravery of pilots who are able to deliberately break a weak link to get them out of trouble.
That this technique can be relied upon horrifies me.

One G was pulled out of a hat...

Yes this does seem be a convenient nice round number.
The figure (IMHO) should be whatever it needs to be so it never breaks when you are otherwise having a good time.
"Just above never break when it shouldn't strength"

A bit like the Wills definition of luff line settings.
"Just slack in normal flight".

The Hewett bridle is totally incompatible with the incorporation of a release which the pilot can be assured of being able to actuate without losing control of the glider. It put the focus on tension distribution at the expense of bulletproof release actuation.

Changes/compromises/improvements often have adverse and sometimes unknown effects.

A bridle I use to fly with many years ago had a plastic tube on the top leg to stop things hitting the pilot in the face (seen it happen) and to tidy up the dangly bits.
One problem solved.

However, the release mechanism sat just in front of the bottom bar and because of the plastic tube the bridle had an additional seatbelt type release around the hip area that you would release in free-flight and everything would wind up against the keel.

So far so good but some may have spotted the flaw here and I did too. If the bottom leg failed/released in flight for any reason then you would be towing from the keel only. This is a disaster (seen it happen) and likely to be fatal.

To overcome this (unlikely event) the unit was designed to automatically release in those circumstances.
Problem solved.

Later evolutions on this bridle included a clever way to release with your hands just about anywhere on the uprights AND on base bar and the incorporation of a very neat and non-dangly 50/50 threader. No doubt these were improvements, improvements that may well have saved lives.
However, the changes were incompatible with the original safety feature and the reasons for its existence were lost in time.

Just the one life lost because this bottom leg failure as far as I know.
A catchall system is very difficult to achieve.

Michael Bradford - 2009/07/04 13:00:24 UTC
Rock Spring, Georgia

Bullshit.

a) only the pilot can let the angle of attack increase when you lose tension. Thats 100% on the pilot. You are simply wrong and misleading again.

SG,

A glider under tow is a powered aircraft. String powered. When climbing under power, the angle of attack is relevant to the climb path, not the horizon. And if the tow force is subtracted instantly, the angle of attack is instantly translated, whether or not there is pilot input. A classic Departure Stall can easily, almost instantly result. Pitch and power are not independent forces.

If you are in the middle of a climbing correction when the "power" fails, failure to immediately lower the angle of attack can yield an immediate deep stall.

A correct statement might be that "Only the pilot can compensate for the naturally increased angle of attack when you abruptly lose tension."

A glider under tow is a powered aircraft.

Jack Axaopoulos - 2009/07/04 13:48:47 UTC

Sorry... but if you suddenly lose power, your nose just doesnt pop

My second sentence describes what im trying to say better.

Agree on the power versus non-power. Just never had an issue cuz I know how to fly a glider. If you dont instinctively know how to set your proper angle of attack in any given scenario, you shouldnt even be flying. Any sudden loss of bar pressure should trigger a response from the pilot.

What I was trying to address is AT's original quote:

There IS NO SUCH THING as "the limit for safe operation" with respect to tow line tension 'cause you can get killed BECAUSE you have ZERO tension

Its nonsense and more grandstanding. You can get killed BECAUSE you ran out of gas in your car. You can get killed BECAUSE you stop pedaling your bicycle.

Guess what, I can fly a glider all over the sky with a towline attached to the nose and nothing on the other end, and guess what??? It still flies! WOW!

Really sick of this bombastic, grandstanding, arguing style I come to my own forum each day and get pissed off. Time to end this.

My premier foray into The Jack Show begun on 2009/04/11 by Rick Maddy half a month before I was really aware of The Jack Show. Good discussion, was able to wade in, quickly identify the non morons, and smash all the right skulls. 181 posts before Jack realized that the only way he could avoid looking any more like the total asshole is was to lock it down.

6950 hits on it a couple of Independence Days ago right after I made the mistake of saying something disparaging about light weak links and Mike and Michael supported me. Just now, way back in the dusty archives on Page 116, that figure doubled. I wonder how long it will take it to triple?

[Tad Eareckson]

Tad Eareckson - 2011/04/30 21:52:24 UTC

Yeah, you and your brain damaged little buddies just keep laughing it up. And I'll be watching for the next round of unpredictable shit to happen. Marc's about due for another one.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23574
Made it through,"ALIVE" ?

Marc Fink - 2011/05/01 16:42:35 UTC

I had just passed through Lookout Valley and was between Wildwood and Trenton when the first tornado came through in the Tennessee area some time between 8:00 and 8:45 am. I had checked the weather just a half hour before--and up until that point all they said was a chance of severe thunderstorms--which these days are very common. On the way back home I noticed the preliminary damage--mostly huge trees uprooted and telephone polls snapped. Lookout Valley itself had two buildings completely destroyed--lots of blown debris spread everywhere. The effects of the initial twister seemed to lessen as I got closer to home, and seemed to stop in St. Elmo--just a couple of blocks from my house.

C'mon God. Ya don't have to go totally nuts on this. I meant in hang gliding. Target specific.

No tandems or midairs - or tandem midairs - unless the other one to three are also on my list. (Head Trauma, Davis, and Jack if you want suggestions. Prioritize them however is convenient but try to get Rooney out of the way first if it's no extra bother.)

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21494
Hydraulic Winch Tows - Safety

Diev Hart - 2011/04/11 21:43:32 UTC
Santa Cruz, California

BIG FLAG tells me no way would I tow with him...

Tad Eareckson - 2011/04/17 23:34:56 UTC

I'm starting to really like this person.

Oops. Forgot that was you...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14663
Aerotow Incident

Diev Hart - 2009/12/02 06:45:13 UTC

I'm Tad...
..."well now if you had my mouth release this would have never even been an issue"...
The same goes for the finger string on the basetube release for that matter...
good job in getting the gear out and down...

...making those typical Jack Show Asshole cracks while commenting on Spark's idiot little launch dolly fiasco involving his failure to grasp the hold-downs before rolling and inability to fly out of the situation 'cause he's too stupid to use a weak link strong enough to hold up to normal straight and level tow tension.

So you may be forty percent less of a douchebag than Head Trauma but this isn't a forty percent sort of sport. This is an all or nothing sort of sport.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=2930
Aero Towing Tips and Experiences

Diev Hart - 2007/07/17 15:18:49 UTC

I've had a weaklink break ten feet off the cart.

Yeah. That's 'cause you're a moron.

Weaklinks are not meant to break if the pressure doesn't build fast enough!!!

Right.

- Just when you're straight and level ten feet off the cart.

- If your weak link will blow at 260 pounds of tow PRESSURE - which yours will - it can hold to two or three times that if the pressure builds slowly such that the weak link has adequate time to prepare itself.

So while on tow, say in a turn, and you are thrown to the outside the pressure builds slowly and you start to lockout. I've done this, tested it on tow. I was about 2000 up and just let it go to see when and if/where it would break. It didn't and I pinned off, under LOTS of pressure while almost facing down. I started the release process while at about level but by the time I was off I was going down.

So of course what you should have done was just pitched out abruptly and - OBVIOUSLY - the weak link would've blown sooner and before you pitched as far off tow as you did when you let the pressure build up slowly.

So you can see what happens when you think you can control something you can't and it goes bad REAL FAST.

What? I thought you just said that things ended up that bad because they didn't start out going bad fast ENOUGH. I'm terribly confused now.

I now have a finger loop release to speed that release process (for those conditions that require it)

I'm Diev...
I now have a finger loop release to speed that release process (for those conditions that require it)

The normal release processes being either to wait for the weak link to blow or speed the process along by pitching out abruptly?

good job in getting the gear out and down...

Yeah, Spark's always been super at getting the gear out and down...

CAL - 2011/04/25 14:31:31 UTC
Ogden

you will be back, you are one tough man ! it is amazing that you where able to get the glider back up on your own !

And he is ONE TOUGH MAN! It is AMAZING that he is able to get a glider back up on his own with a broken shoulder!

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21863
WANTED - Wheels and info.

Axel Banchero - 2011/05/12 00:51:28 UTC
Miami Beach

Wheels.

I had need of them on a weak link break right after leaving the cart with no time to get upright for landing, and have seen a champion pilot break a very expensive glider and wrist because of the same situation and not having wheels.

I don't care what you say, not having wheels is for idiots in most cases, no matter the experience.
-
Aeros Target 13
Sport 2 135
H2 - AT

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14663
Aerotow Incident

Allen Sparks - 2009/12/02 02:37:25 UTC
Evergreen, Colorado

Aerotow Incident
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb4nUTAJXTk
Sparkozoid - 2009/12/01
dead

Socrates Zayas - 2009/12/02 15:50:38 UTC
Fort Lauderdale

Good save!

Ok,

I follow the following:

1) Cables - I check that I see all the cables of my harness are visibly not tangled
2) I follow them up to the Carabiner and and make sure that it's closed and properly locked
3) Chin strap on your helmet
4) Clearance to the bar
5) Cart wheels facing forward and inflated well
6) Tow Cable: correctly placed (above bar if AT, below bar if WT), and connected properly in front of the other cables and not behind then (the harness cables and such)
7) Parachute pins seated and set
Primary release in place, and do a test of the release
9) Grasp Secondary release and do a test as well
10) grab cart cable and verbally say it and all the above before clear
of course the preflight should have been conducted and included 1) Glider, 2) Harness, 3) Cart, 4) launch route (for holes and irregularities)

Warmth,

-DocSoc
Socrates
"Team Chicken Hawk"

Super, Doc. Get that carabiner locked, make sure your helmet's buckled, check that your release works with someone taking a twenty pound pull on it. (And if you're flying Florida Ridge DEFINITELY check the runway.)

So, watchya using for a weak link? How many Gs? Or are you just using a loop of 130 pound Greenspot 'cause that's what the Florida Ridge pros hand out to everyone and to keep you safe when one of your dolly wheels snaps off in an armadillo burrow in the Florida Ridge runway?

phantomflier - 2009/12/02 16:05:58 UTC

I used to zip up before launching out of the cart. I, too, thought that there was less chance something would get hung up, and somehow felt safer. Then I had a weak link break at the Florida Ridge. Busted RIGHT out of the cart, and I came down on my belly and wheels. Not a big deal, glider and human just fine. BUT, I did change my thinking on this. Keep those barn doors open folks. Well maybe closed, but unzipped for sure.

No shit, Phantom! Busted RIGHT OUT OF THE CART! At the Florida Ridge? Dude, you must've been really pulling some Gs! Good thing it blew and saved you from the lockout that was sure to immediately follow. Yep, lesson learned. Keep those barn doors open folks.

Jason Boehm - 2009/12/02 16:20:36 UTC
Boulder

how you feeling these days DOC?
good to see you back

Yeah Doc, how you feelin' these days? Good to see you back!

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=6911
Sunday flying at Florida ridge. -

Socrates Zayas - 2008/05/21 23:53:23 UTC

The cycle was nice, nothing out of the ordinary, but just as the tug flew over the fence line of the orchard the weak link broke. It was as if it didn't even break - Eric and I both thought it was a release malfunction.

I was flying nice with good speed and climbing. I thought "Shit. It broke again. Damn, I don't want to land between those trees, they don't even have the keys to the gate anymore."

Axel Banchero - 2008/05/22 04:19:39 UTC

Doc's body wasn't moving and we were shitting our pants until he started talking confused. The first thing I saw was his eye bleeding and swollen the size of an 8 ball. There was sand and dirt inside. Looked like he lost it at first until he could open it a little bit.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=16265
weaklinks

Kinsley Sykes - 2010/03/18 19:42:19 UTC

In the old threads there was a lot of info from a guy named Tad. Tad had a very strong opinion on weak link strength and it was a lot higher than most folks care for. I'd focus carefully on what folks who tow a lot have to say.

Yeah Kinsley, don't listen to some guy named Tad. Stay with what most folks care for and focus carefully on what folks who tow a lot have to say.

Or Jim Rooney who is an excellent tug pilot.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/07/19 14:50:52 UTC

And yes, get behind me with a "strong link" and I will not tow you.

Or Jim Rooney who is an excellent tug pilot. And can dictate what most folks care for.

I tow with the "park provided" weaklinks. I think they are 130 lb greenspot.

How could you possibly go wrong with park provided weak links?

But I've had it once where the pin had bent inside the barrel from excessive tow force. My weaklink was still intact.

Perfect match for your park provided barrel release.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=5089
The Good-The Bad-The Ugly....

Socrates Zayas - 2008/01/14 05:22:38 UTC

The radiography showed acute multiple fractures around the top and head of the humerus. Her nose didn't break but she may have hairline fractures to the septum. She had a hard time remembering the date, day, names of her kids, number of kids, and other basic things...

The dolly had hit a huge hole and she went left shoulder into the ground at 25+ mph.

And how's your better half doing? Did Sherb-Air ever get back into the swing of things at Florida Ridge? Or was that about all the swinging she could take? Haven't heard from her in a long time.

Rolla Manning (BBJCaptain) - 2010/02/26 03:00:51 UTC
Las Vegas

WOW Spark Great save (nice reflexes for an OLD GUY)

Yeah Spark, GREAT SAVE! And nice reflexes! All of your really great pilots have really great reflexes to get them out of the stupid situations they're always putting themselves into.

Bill Bennett (lOoNeY bIrD) - 2010/03/15 16:36:42 UTC
Arizona

Great job keeping cool under pressure!

And keeping cool under pressure... You DA MAN!!!

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=12682
Landing on your feet (for AEROTOW)- So Dangerous

Jack Axaopoulos - 2009/06/29 14:26:26 UTC

OMG!!! You dont even have wheels!!?!?!?!?
YOURE GONNA DIE FOR SUUUUREE!!!!

I have a brilliant idea. People who cant land for sh*t.... LEARN TO LAND That way when a weak link breaks on you, ITS A NON-ISSUE. Genius huh???

axo, you miserable Hang Two pudwhacker...

- Grow a pair. LEARN TO LAND! That way when a weak link breaks on you, IT'S A NON-ISSUE.

- Same goes for that so called "champion" pilot with the broken glider and wrist. If he was REALLY a champion that couldn't have happened.

- Weak links capable of getting you ten feet off the runway are for dangerous nut cases with no concern for either their own safety or that of the tug driver.

- And wheels are for FAGS!!!

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21863
WANTED - Wheels and info.

Jason Boehm - 2011/05/12 21:27:13 UTC
Boulder, Colorado

get a pair of
Landing
Easier
Gentlier
Smoother

they work very well when you also purchase
For
Landing
Always
Retard
Excessive
Speed

Combine L.E.G.S. with a quality collection of F.L.A.R.E.S. and you will be able to land safely in anything from a groomed LZ to sand to riverbeds. Combine L.E.G.S. and F.L.A.R.E.S with a quailty

Basic
Recognition of
Air
In
Nearby area

and you will never need to look for another landing system again

Well, AT LEAST for about four months...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21647
Busted Shoulder

Allen Sparks - 2011/05/10 02:11:40 UTC
Evergreen, Colorado

Update

The good news ..., the shoulder is not fractured. The bad news - two tears in the tendons of my right rotator cuff.
In the morning I'll be getting some surgery.
In ~4 months I hope to post some more video for your enjoyment.
Ciao

...but sometimes, yeah, you WILL never need to look for another landing system again.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11946
Once again with wheels

Rich Jesuroga - 2008/05/19 17:49:23 UTC

A few years back a friend who had good landing skills missed ONE. Stuck his speed bar in the dirt and whacked hard. He swung through the control bar and hit the top of his helmet on the keel buckling his neck. He was a quadriplegic for eight months before committing suicide. Would wheels have worked? YES - no debate by those who were there and witnessed the accident.

In ~4 months I hope to post some more video for your enjoyment.

Well, that last one's gonna be REALLY hard to top. But... who knows? Keep skipping those hook-in checks and there's a pretty good chance you'll come up with something FAR superior. And if you don't fall too far I'm sure your buddy Bille can give you great tips on replacement legs and how to launch and land with them.

Ciao.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21863
WANTED - Wheels and info.

Carm Moreno - 2011/05/12 21:36:40 UTC
Bay Area

Jason he talking about towing and coming off the cart.
You do not really have time to land on feet if the weak link breaks off of launch.

Sure ya do, Carm. Hey Jack...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=12682
Landing on your feet (for AEROTOW)- So Dangerous

Jack Axaopoulos - 2009/06/29 14:26:26 UTC

OMG!!! You dont even have wheels!!?!?!?!?
YOURE GONNA DIE FOR SUUUUREE!!!!

I have a brilliant idea. People who cant land for sh*t.... LEARN TO LAND That way when a weak link breaks on you, ITS A NON-ISSUE. Genius huh???

Aren't you gonna say anything to this stupid bitch?

It sounds as if there have been more than a few tow line breaks at the lastest comp and one was hurt but okay after a hospital visit.
It makes prefect sense when towing to have wheels on. To each your own.
-
H4 (started 1987)
flying: Litesport 5, Falcon2 225, Falcon 2 195

Look not just with your eyes but also your brain. There's a whole new world.

Manned Kiting
The Basic Handbook of Tow Launched Hang Gliding
Daniel F. Poynter
1974

"The greatest dangers are a rope break or a premature release." - Richard Johnson

Hey Carm, wouldn't it ALSO make perfect sense not to have a few towline breaks at the latest comp?

Towing Aloft - 1998/01

Weak links have greatly improved the safety of towing over the years.

Nah, just kidding.