instructors and other qualified pilot fiends

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=8241
HG safety

gbx5150 - 2008/08/29 05:25:33 UTC

I've always tried to convince myself and others that it's as safe as you want to make it. But if I really get honest with myself, looking at it as a whole, not just from my personal perspective, I think it ranks as quite dangerous.

And the statistics USHPA pushes are pretty misleading.

Anyone watch all those Paul Hamilton videos from the mid Nineties? They always used to start with a serious black and white page disclaimer stating "HANG GLIDING IS DANGEROUS! IT CAN BREAK AND/OR KILL YOU."

Then when USHPA hired Paul Hamilton to make a promotional video that disclaimer was gone, replaced by a some shots of girls on the training hill, soaring eagles, and a graph showing hang gliding safer than jet skis, motorcycles, atv's, skiing... They had it right there with driving a car, I believe. I don't buy it.

I think more people would be drawn to hang gliding if they skip the misleading safety stats and go back to "HANG GLIDING IS DANGEROUS! IT CAN BREAK AND/OR KILL YOU."

Embrace our roots and history and claim the title of "HANG GLIDING - THE ORIGINAL EXTREME SPORT". And for a promotional video show some oxygen sucking high altitude mountain shots, dune flying, acro, speedgliding, etc.

I can't believe any prospective student buys those stats USHPA pushes. It might help to tell your friends those stats when they say you're crazy and I'm sure those stats help keep our insurance cost down but, come on, ask anybody's mom and she'll tell you "Hang gliding is dangerous." And moms are usually right on those things.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/16.006
The one armed pilot

Davis Straub - 2012/01/07 05:12:11 UTC

Out of the Forbes Pre-Worlds (Forbes airfield, Australia)

I'm tweeting here in Forbes because I'm not flying here in Forbes (after flying the first day and a few practice days). I have a fully torn Supraspinatus tendon (rotator cuff) and that prevents me from flying with more than one arm.

Gee Davis, based upon your ever popular "Pro tow Mini Barrel Release" I'm really surprised that you feel you need that many.

I tore the tendon when I tripped running out a landing back at the end of September at the Santa Cruz Flats Race.

Seeing as how it was the Santa Cruz FLATS Race, you couldn't have just landed on the wheels? Oh, right. If you don't land on your feet EVERY time you might not be able to safely land on your feet in a narrow dry riverbed with large rocks strewn all over the place or a field filled with seven foot high corn.

I flew for a couple of days after that without problem, but now my right shoulder is no longer operational.

I so do feel your pain.

I had thought (quite incorrectly) that I would be able to continue with my prior plans of flying in the pre-Worlds and get an operation at a later point, but this is not the case.

What! You thought quite incorrectly?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25015
Zippy pounds in

Davis Straub - 2011/09/02 18:37:09 UTC

Concussions are in fact very serious and have life long effects. The last time I was knocked out what in 9th grade football. I have felt the effects of that ever since. It changes your wiring.

Who'da thunk!

My plan is to head back to the US and have an orthopedic surgeon sew up my tendon and then spend six months in rehabilitation.

I flew the Moyes Malibu a couple of times before the competition, and was able to do so with one arm. The problem was landing with one arm. I could do it but it wasn't easy. I just couldn't get my mind to work the non working arm so flaring was almost non existent.

I flew the Airborne REV 13.5 on the first day of the competition. It was easy to fly (it had been tuned to be very easy, but not the best in glide) and I was getting pretty good as a one armed pilot. The trouble came again with the landing.

The first leg of the task was to the south, but we had a strong 10 knot west wind to fight going south and a blue sky with cu-nimbs to our north. We had to continually fight upwind to have any chance of getting to the turnpoint. The lift was mostly weak and broken, which made it all the more painful.

There was a not so high north south ridge upwind of the turnpoint at 20 km. We fought to get over on the windward side of it but that did no good as there was no lift on that side. Also as it turned out there was no wind. When I came into land hoping for wind to help with the landing, I found calm conditions. It was not a pretty landing, breaking the base tube as I landed flat on the wheels.

http://ozreport.com/9.011
2005 Worlds

Davis Straub - 2005/01/13

Tom Lanning had four launches, and two broken weaklinks and a broken base tube. He made it just outside the start circle.

http://ozreport.com/3.066
Weaklinks

Davis Straub - 1999/06/06

During the US Nationals I wrote a bit about weaklinks and the gag weaklinks that someone tied at Quest Air. A few days after I wrote about them, Bobby Bailey, designer and builder of the Bailey-Moyes Dragon Fly tug, approached me visibly upset about what I and James Freeman had written about weaklinks. He was especially upset that I had written that I had doubled my weaklink after three weaklinks in a row had broken on me.

What were you using for a weak link? The double loop of 130 pound Greenspot you like to fly? Or the single you force everybody else to fly?

I should have just come in and landed on the wheels.

- Duh.

- Should you have just come in and landed on the wheels when you tripped running out a landing back at the end of September at the Santa Cruz Flats Race?

So not being able to land safely I decided that I was nuts to continue competing (and nuts to even think that I should have come here and tried to begin with).

Oh no, you're there, GO FOR IT!!! What's the worst that could happen?

I'm not in the best of spirits at the moment, as you can imagine.

Odd, I'm actually feeling a little more cheerful than usual.

The Airborne REV was great to fly and Scott and Rohan are doing well on them, occupying first and second place after the first two days of a ten day competition.

Did Rohan offer any input about where competitors should get to cut back in line after their loops of 130 pound Greenspot blow?

Phil Shroeder flew mine on the second day and found the handling very nice. But he, like me, feels that the VG line is still a bit too hard to pull. I had a hard time because I couldn't pull it with my right arm/shoulder. I was yanking it with my left arm.

The glider flew perfectly straight in glide and was quite a bit faster when the VG was pulled on with the base bar coming back for light bar pressures.

What's next? We'll see.

Yeah. And DO get that shoulder taken care of.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18695
How could this accident happen?

Davis Straub - 2010/01/28 06:10:17 UTC

I have tried to launch unhooked on aerotow and scooter tow.

And when it's all better make sure you don't do anything stupid like lifting the glider up just before you start your launch run.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u51qpPLz5U0

07-0913


11-1118

And be sure to say hi to Sparky for me when you see him.

[Steve Davy]

Donnell partially understood this with respect to pitch but NEVER understood that the same thing also applies with respect to roll.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=23436
Technique: dropped or lifting wing in launch run

Ryan Voight - 2011/10/01 21:14:05 UTC

While launching, a wing gets lifted. This is usually after a few steps, and after the glider has lifted up and the hang straps are tight. As long as the hang straps are tight, the correct input is typically to change your running direction- running more towards the lifted wing. This is effectively weight shifting to roll the glider level.

I'm thinking Ryan is incorrect here.

[Tad Eareckson]

Always a safe assumption with which to start.

I gotta confess to being on the same page with Wonder Boy on this one:

RUN and fly the damn wing!

Ask Ryan to demonstrate his weight shift technique with his arms crossed on his chest. I'm betting the results won't be as pretty as weight shift theory predicts.

During a launch run after the glider has lifted the pilot is towing it into the air by generating thrust with his legs and transmitting that energy as tension to and through the hang strap. And if it's a foot launched tow he's getting a major supplement via towline tension - and continues to benefit from it once the glider lifts him to the point at which his legs are of no further use.

If the left wing comes up the glider will want to roll to the right. The response of the Dragonfly driver (hopefully) will NOT be to fly to the left to shift your weight to the left to bring the wing down (or to...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 13:47:23 UTC

Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.

...fix whatever's going on back there by giving you the rope) - because that would probably lock you out to the right and kill you. He (hopefully) will continue straight while you muscle the wing back down or turn right to help you stay lined up while you're working on the problem.

I can't figure out why Ryan is saying this... Possibly for the same reason Donnell is - it looks good on paper if you don't know what you're talking about, possibly because he remembers instinctively resisting the right turn WHILE CORRECTING THE ROLL so as to stay on the ramp and/or lined up with the wind.

Also...

Whether the glider is being accelerating by a:
- push on the control frame before it's lifted;
- pull on the suspension the after it's lifted; or
- combination of both at any point in the run

I don't think you're gonna find a lot of people who vary the way they move their feet or torque the bar to keep or get things under control in accordance.

And as much as people keep looking for free lunches in the sport with "floating crossbars", auto correcting Hewett Bridles, and Lever Links, the ugly truth is - and always will be - that it takes muscle to roll and level hang gliders and they're a bitch to control relative to conventional fixed wing aircraft with elevators, ailerons, and rudders.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21997
Ft Funston ... ? Eric any updates ways to help ?

NMERider - 2011/06/17 18:33:37 UTC

It's been a rough year so far. Many accidents are only being privately reported too.

- There pretty much are no ACCIDENTS in hang gliding.

- The vast majority of INCIDENTS are never reported at all and the only way we find out anything is IF someone happens to mention something.

- And the incidents which happen up high that would've been fatalities if they had happened down low are so common that no one even considers them to be incidents.

I hope the trend improves...

Why would it? What do we do differently after even our well publicized disasters?

...and everyone recovers and heals to fly again.

Yeah, everybody hopes that. But we tend to forget about the people who quietly disappear from the sport because they NEVER recover.

Dan Johnson - 2012/01/14 04:07:36 UTC

We always have to remember that we are taking a risk when we fly.

Yeah.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21972
Crash this afternoon at Funston on the news

Ryan Voight - 2011/05/21 06:03:57 UTC

From David Kiesling's FaceBook post:

David Kiesling - 2011/05/20

Eric may have broken his back at Funston today. Failed wingover close to the ground.

Hang gliding is just bristling with totally unforeseeable and unavoidable risks. And every now and then they bite us - big time - when we're least expecting it.

Oh well...

Mike Bomstad

Everyone who lives dies, yet not everyone who dies, has lived. We take these risks not to escape life, but to prevent life escaping us.

What are ya gonna do?

Steve Baran - 2012/01/14 04:48:48 UTC
Chattaroy, Washington

Wonder if there is a way/desire/need to develop an anonymous accident reporting system? I'm not a morbid sort that likes to read about the crashes of others but I'd sure like to know if there's a trend, a particular glider design, certain conditions more than others, etc., etc. on any accidents.

- It's your freakin' DUTY as a pilot in an allegedly self regulated sport to read the crap out of reports of the crashes of others.

- What trends would you expect to see related to particular glider designs that aren't blatantly obvious? There are reasons that you tend to see single surface baggy stuff with huge wheels at training hills and topless bladewings with everything faired to within an inch of its life at XC and aerobatics competitions.

- Certain conditions? This ain't rocket science.

I also like to be honest with others about the sport I'm in (accident rates and reasons they occur - overall safety).

Tell them our record, instruction, and most of our towing equipment sucks and - based upon a sampling of twenty people in the setup area - they stand a real good chance of getting seriously hurt.

I can fully understand why some information is, and likely should be kept confident.

Yeah, to protect instructors, schools, flight parks, and USHGA.

But, information is key when it comes to the overall safety of our sport. If there's a way that accident information could get posted and confidentiality preserved - I'd be all for it (such as omitting name, date, flying site and other information). Main drawback I can envision avoiding in such an accident reporting system would be verification of data.

People post stuff on the web during unguarded moments. That's your best shot.

I too wish all pilots who've had accidents a very speedy recovery. I hope they all fly again.

Don't hold your breath.

Dan Johnson - 2012/01/14

Doug Hildreth used to do a great job of compiling accidents and reporting conclusions in the USHGA mag. It would be nice to have safety advisories such as the NTSB database.

Doug Hildreth was EXCELLENT.

The bad news... USHGA will NEVER AGAIN allow that kind of reporting to see the light of day. Hell, it'll never even allow the raw to get past the shredder.

The good news...
- The reasons people were crashing and dying today aren't any different whatsoever from what they were thirty years ago.
- Nobody learned shit from what Doug was publishing and saying.
- So start reading what Doug was publishing and saying and try to learn something from it.

[Tad Eareckson]

Anybody else notice that it's been a day over three months since Lois Preston was killed and we still know absolutely nothing about the crash and its causes?

There must be some kind of lesson that USHPA can take from BHPA. Damn they're good.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25302
Interview with Davis Straub, OzReport founder

Kostya Marchenko - 2012/02/20 21:11:34 UTC

We recently published an interview with Davis Straub where he talks about his early days, how he started hang gliding, about Oz Report and other things.

Read it here:
http://aviacamp.com/

2012/02/20 21:34:35 UTC - Sink This! -- Brian Horgan
2012/02/20 22:06:47 UTC - Sink This! -- fly,surf,&ski

Brian Horgan - 2012/02/20 21:39:13 UTC

i personally dont care about davis stub and his huge ego.The guy has the character of a jelly fish and he does not know what the word humility means.

Well, it seems we have at least one area of general agreement. That may well be the extent of it however...

How about starting a string on SG,who has done more to connect the hg community by starting this site than mr ego has ever done.

Yeah, Jack sure has created a nice, homogenous, inbred little community. However, in aviation that's NEVER a good thing.

2012/02/20 22:06:24 UTC - 3 thumbs up - fly,surf,&ski
2012/02/20 23:48:09 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Marco Weber

Allen Sparks - 2012/02/20 21:44:47 UTC

fascinating ...
to round it out, you should also do an interview with hang gliding safety activist Tad Eareckson
http://www.kitestrings.org/topic2.html

I don't think of myself as a hang gliding safety activist. More of an instructor and common sense advocate.

Kostya Marchenko - 2012/02/20 21:49:15 UTC

This was second in series of interviews and there definitely will be more.
I'll try to interview both SG and Tad Eareckson if they would have spare time.

- Please don't ever use my name in the same sentence with that motherfucker ever again.

- Don't interview me. Nothing about me is terribly important or relevant. Just check my math and if you get the same numbers then please get behind them and do some editorializing on Davis.

Also I'm looking for suggestions who else to interview and you can post your suggestions in this thread.

Doug Hildreth. But, sadly, he ain't around no more. (And he's probably rolling in his grave in response to the state of this sport.)

My aim is to try to interview more notable people from both PG and HG world as it's always nice to know people better.

Yeah. Until you get to know them better anyway.

fly,surf,&ski - 2012/02/20 22:07:45 UTC
Torrey Pines

i personally dont care about davis...

Very well put

NMERider - 2012/02/20 23:27:48 UTC

to round it out, you should also do an interview...

Hey Davis Link Boy, how's tricks?

Jack Axaopoulos - 2012/02/20 23:54:13 UTC

The attacks on Davis are uncalled for. Please refrain.

The attacks on Davis don't begin to scratch the surface. Please get things properly in gear.

As for me, im no one special worth being interviewed, and dont like the attention.

Neither would I if I were a lying, cowardly, back stabbing, scum sucking bottom dweller.

If anyone should be interviewed, its the interesting people and characters on this site that make it interesting.

Yeah, it's "interesting" alright. I'll bet there are a lot of next of kin of hang gliding people who wish that this sport and the Jack and Davis Show people who participate in and control it were a lot less interesting.

Paul Hurless - 2012/02/21 01:58:42 UTC
Reno

to round it out...

Good idea, if by activist you mean "arrogant asshole".

I'll take it over being a stupid, useless, spineless asshole anytime, Paul.

2012/02/21 03:19:44 UTC - Sink This! -- Kostya Marchenko
2012/02/24 05:26:47 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Mike Bomstad

Newton - 2012/02/21 02:27:57 UTC

Look in a mirror Paul.

Yech!

2012/02/21 03:19:34 UTC - Sink This! -- Kostya Marchenko
2012/02/24 06:07:24 UTC - Sink This! -- Mike Bomstad

Paul Hurless - 2012/02/21 02:53:48 UTC

Wow, that's awesome. Did you take a long time to think that up? So, what grade are you in?

Who cares? Anything over about third or fourth is out of your depth anyway.

2012/02/21 03:19:11 UTC - Sink This! -- Kostya Marchenko

Kostya Marchenko - 2012/02/21 03:32:11 UTC

Can we keep behaving as responsible adults please.

Not after all the responsible adults - and, if any, responsible ten year old kids - have been systematically eliminated from the Jack and Davis Shows gene pools.

Behaving like an adult means not offending each other but rather explaining your point of view and supplementing it with arguments.

- What? Are people over the age of seventeen supposed to have some kind of monopoly on that approach?

- Just how much research have you done in those two forums?

- You want that kind of environment then PLEASE come over here. That's EXACTLY the kind I want - and the establishment of this forum seems to have been the only way to attain it.

I think no one can deny that Davis is a notable person in hang gliding world...

I'll give you that. And nobody can deny that Bernie Madoff was a notable person in the financial world.

...some people like him...

Fuck them and the horses they rode in on.

...some don't.

Anybody with any shreds of decency who's been paying attention.

What I wanted to do by doing an interview with him is to give everyone additional perspective on his personality.

Brian did it so much more effectively with so much more efficient use of bandwidth.

To keep this thread valuable and useful let's stay within certain boundaries:
- If you have a suggestion whom to interview next - please post it as a reply, preferably with short note why do you think so.
- If you have an opinion - please post it supplementing with arguments to explain why do you think so.
Thanks

Yeah. Like that approach is gonna work on a mainstream hang gliding forum.

Dan Johnson (theayeinthesky) - 2012/02/21 03:49:37 UTC
San Andreas, California

Fair enough, I did learn about Davis's connection to Gowen through his Dad.
Me being a B17 freak, that's pretty cool. But let's face it, a lot of great pilots are arrogant assholes, the really great ones (I'll name some if you want) aren't.

I'll second that. The really great pilots are the ones who understand that being a really great pilot really isn't that much to write home about.

I would join OZ, except the rules seem narcissistic on his part.

Get real. It should be pretty obvious that there are no rules whatsoever and Davis just does whatever the fuck he feels like as long as he thinks it's in his personal best interest.

Jack is a paragon of free speech.

Yeah?

It can get out of hand, but otherwise it ain't free.
Seriously, interview Spark.

Why? What the hell has he ever done that hundreds of other people have done better first?

Paul Hurless - 2012/02/21 03:50:21 UTC

I don't believe it's necessary for me to supplement my reference to Tad as an arrogant asshole with any arguments seeing as how he pretty much made them all on his own and now he's no longer here on the .org.

Hey Dan... What was that you were just saying about Jack being a paragon of free speech?

What else would you call someone who offered numerous abusive attacks on anyone who dared to disagree with his views?

An arrogant asshole - obviously. But if he were an arrogant asshole who happened to be right about a few things, I'd be paying close attention. And I've never heard you make anything of a case that he wasn't. And I note that you're not making anything of an effort to do so now.

2012/02/21 13:11:20 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Sam Kellner

mrcc - 2012/02/21 04:18:44 UTC
Auckland

We all enjoy a common interest, there is no need to get personal.

I'm afraid there really really IS.

But we should all be respectful of our fellow pilots.

No freakin' way. It's absolutely essential that respect be earned and deserved. Giving it away on the ASSUMPTION that it is is a really great way to get yourself and fellow pilots killed. And the default assumption, I'm afraid, must be that it ISN'T. And it usually doesn't take long for a confirmation.

In respect for Noman 3, I do enjoy most of your comments ???!!!!

Great. I hold the opposite perspective.

Newton - 2012/02/21 04:32:30 UTC

What else would you call someone who offered numerous abusive attacks on anyone who dared to disagree with his views?

Responsible

2012/02/21 05:11:40 UTC - Sink This! -- Paul Hurless

Dan Johnson - 2012/02/21 05:10:07 UTC

For making this statement: "I'm also not in favor of everybody who gets into this sport getting back out alive." WTF?

Newton - 2012/02/21 06:08:45 UTC

Try READING more and asking less.

Dan Johnson - 2012/02/21 06:19:29 UTC

I read the WHOLE web page, before I posted.

Wow. The WHOLE web page. Over fourteen hundred posts - many very extensive - and you read a WHOLE page before your attention span was maxed out and you passed judgment.

Now, why don't you explain it to me, since having the name of a Genius, I might learn something.

There's no way in hell you're ever gonna learn anything from a genius. Stick with your fellow Jack Show morons so you don't push your comfort level too much.

I don't know Tad. I've heard his name many times.

- Yeah, when I hear somebody's name many times in reference to hang gliding controversies I tend to check him out myself instead of asking someone else for an explanation. But I DO understand how taxing reading a whole page must've been for you.

- And hey... You don't hafta like me personally or agree with a lot of what I have to say - but that's not a reason to discount EVERYTHING I have to say. Goes for anybody else too. Even scum like Rooney, Jack, and Davis.

Apparently, he does well in getting himself booted from forums.

- Thank you. I always know I'm saying the right things whenever I get booted off a forum. And I regret and apologize for the punches I pulled to extend my stays on some of them - particularly the Jack and Davis Shows.

- Did you check out my history on The Jack Show?

Jack, is a paragon of free speech. It can get out of hand, but otherwise it ain't free.

- Any comment on the manner in which I got myself booted from his forum?

The quote I posted might explain his outlook, and why nobody wants to hear it?

- Have you looked at my hit counters?

- Is the assumption that people get locked down, booted, censored, shut down, arrested, executed, mowed down in the street because no one wants to hear them a good one?

Newton - 2012/02/21 06:57:46 UTC

Keep reading and thinking.

If this guy were capable of reading and/or thinking you wouldn't need to be advising him on what to do at this point.

Dan Johnson - 2012/02/21 07:04:31 UTC

OK, Newton! Who the fuck are you to presume to tell me what to do?

Yes, Dan. Perish the thought that anybody should advise you to read and think and thus catastrophically disrupt your state of equilibrium.

Go back to the basement where you belong.

Yeah, we sure don't need people like Newton exercising his free speech principles to interfere with our free speech.

Your on my pending ignore list

You tell him, Dan! If he says anything else you just use your little Jack Show button to eliminate any possibility of you hearing anything more he has to say.

if you have nothing to say but sociopathic fixations with failure to hook in instances, you need to see a specialist in these sort of mental disorders right away!

Yeah, real sociopath. Trying to get people to think about whether or not they're connected to their gliders right before running off the ramp so they can meet their little girls in the LZ instead of leaving them screaming in horror at launch. People like that have no business whatsoever freely associating with decent hang glider pilots - or pretty much anybody else for that matter.

Edit - 2012/02/21 11:27:11 UTC

All appologies for this, just trying to earn some thumbs down, so I have something to aspire to.

And you think that that kind of behavior stands any chance of earning you thumbs down from the Jack Show crowd?

2012/02/21 22:57:42 UTC - Sink This! -- Brent Benoist

Newton - 2012/02/21 07:27:38 UTC

Thanks Sky.

Dan Johnson - 2012/02/21 07:48:48 UTC

Your Welcome! Sorry, I went overboard, but I still ask WTF?

Keep reading and thinking.

Actually, this quote is worth posting on my desk.

Yeah, just post it on your desk. That way you don't hafta actually do any and other people will be left with the impression that you actually ARE.

Christopher LeFay - 2012/02/21 10:03:50 UTC

I would join OZ, except the rules seem narcissistic on his part.

Such as what rule, exactly? Actually, forget the question - independent of what ever nit you may pick, I've never, ever been censored by Davis - directly, or through threats - even when championing opposite sides of contentious issues.

Yeah, Christopher.

- As long as you never say or do anything of much substance in this sport you can get along great with just about anybody.

- And as long as YOU'VE never, ever been censored by Davis - directly, or through threats - even when championing opposite sides of contentious issues, why should you give a rat's ass when you see him doing that shit to other people all the time?

Another case where experience is no substitute for imagination.

I've had the experience - lotsa times. Fuck you.

Dan Johnson - 2012/02/21 10:22:50 UTC

Hey Chris,
I'll have to take sometime to find it. Be back in a flash, if I don't get caught up looking at all the hot babe pics over there.

- Anybody ever ask any of the hot babes in this sport how they feel about all the hot babe pics over there?

- Anybody ever ask ANYBODY in this sport how they feel about getting a dose of light porn every time they wanna check on something going on in the sport?

Yeah, there are lotsa very attractive photos of very attractive babes that get my attention when I go over there. But that's not the place for them.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10
Welcome to, and policies of, the Oz Report discussion group

This seems to be the thing that bugs me.

For the new pilots who come here in your blazing ignorance (and your burning desire for a hint of acceptance), I say, humility is a fine cloak for your obsessive egos. Lurk, listen, read (past issues - using the search function in the Oz Report itself and the other (non Google) search function in the forum), and, if you must, ask questions, without explaining to us first how you know everything already.

Sounds like "STFU, and listen to me because I'm mister know it all."

My, you ARE perceptive, aren't you?

An HG pilot recently told me that a lot of the "core" people in HG are So full of themselves. This is sadly true.

Just "a lot"? Name one who isn't.

I have been told that I don't listen by people who don't want to have a conversation, just assert their alleged superiority over me.

Even after you've mentally exhausted yourself by reading a WHOLE web page?! That's OUTRAGEOUS!!!

Thing is I am not a completely inexperienced Flyer...

So what?

I don't have a massive ego, but I will tune out people who think they're all that.

- You'll tune people out after you've mentally exhausted yourself by reading a WHOLE web page and before even listening to what they have to say.

- Just because a core person in hang gliding is full of himself and asserts his alleged superiority over you doesn't mean you can't learn anything valuable from him.

- And it can be - and almost always is - WAY more valuable to listen to a core person in hang gliding who's full of himself and asserting his alleged superiority over you and figure out why he's totally full of shit.

I can admitt my brain farts, why can't certain other people?

Who gives a rat's ass? Nothing's stopping you from identifying other people's brain farts and publicizing them. But if you start identifying the brain farts of people like Jack, Davis, Bob, and Sam you're not gonna be finding them all to be the paragons of free speech you might believe them to be.

Really didn't appreciate some of he stuff Davis has said over here i.e.. criticism of the King Meet, political stuff, etc.

But you're totally cool with him on hang checks, Aussie Methodism, Davis Links, and bent pin releases, right?

Worst part of OZ forum is, I am expected to write cogently?

If you can't think cogently - and you can't - you're never gonna be able to write cogently. But that's OK - 'cause if you could you wouldn't be able to post on The Jack Show for very long.

Spontaneity is more fun...

In the short term - no doubt whatsoever.

...and you KNOW how wrapped around the axel I get with physics.

Yeah. You undoubtedly made the right decision in limiting your reading in Kite Strings to the extent you did.

Dennis Cavagnaro (HGXC) - 2012/02/21 15:30:59 UTC

My love affair with hang Gliding began over 38 years ago. There are many things I enjoy but a few that for me are pretty sad.

One of them is the way we treat people who contribute to the sport. Now I think some of you realize our sport is a financial nightmare. It is extremely inconvenient to coexist with most normal lifestyles and life demands. Think of what it take in committment and desire to stay active for 20-30+ years!

Now I have had my share of disagreements with Davis over the twenty years we have known each other. Some laced with anger. But for the last twenty years this guy has through his writing and efforts given this sport more then most of us combined.

Bullshit. He's an evil, self serving asshole who's been instrumental in keeping the sport retarded and dangerous and he's got a lot of blood on his hands.

To deny that, to marginalize that is a disservice to the sport and ourselves.

Crucify me.

He started the report in 96/97? No facebook then, slow computers, web in its early times. He has basically lived the life of the roving reporter giving us homebodies a viewpoint of HGing around the world.

Yeah. *A* viewpoint. And nothing we didn't have before.

He f ing still competes in his mid sixties and as a guy not too far behind that gets my respect right there.

- Not at present. He ripped up his shoulder landing in a narrow dry riverbed with large rocks strewn all over the place - I mean an airstrip.
- Big fuckin' deal.

But he has a personalty, a point of view, he is a character.

His personality is as Brian described it, who gives a rat's ass about his point of view, and he has no character.

It seems the guys who stick with HGing for the long run and give back at least as much as they take all can be described in these same terms. Funny how that is.

Show me how hang gliding would've been worse off if one of his unhooked launches had happened at Henson at the 1988 Nationals.

I am trying to have a shorter memory of the things that my fellow pilots do that piss me off and a longer memory of what they leave on the table for others.

This isn't just a question of pissing people off. This is a matter of suppressing technology and procedures which would've prevented serious injuries, cripplings, and deaths and forcing everybody up on Davis Links which are the primary causes of crashes in aerotowing.

Stay Thirsty,
Dennis

Dan Johnson - 2012/02/21 15:43:17 UTC

Well said.

Get fucked.

Tormod Helgesen - 2012/02/21 16:16:24 UTC
Oslo

Once I commented on something errenious Davis wrote, He subsequently edited his post without commenting on his changes, made me look like an ass. Stayed (mostly) away from threads where he's active since.

And I've had stuff chopped up, sabotaged, and deleted.

Andrew Stakhov - 2012/02/21 16:42:16 UTC
Toronto

Can you all stop whining? It's like childish seriously. Grow a pair...

Those are very serious charges and issues - asshole.

This thread seriously got off track...

Good. Most of the better ones tend to.

Davis Straub - 2012/02/21 16:57:15 UTC

Thanks, Dennis. You're a mensch.

You didn't even dispute Tormod's charges. And you call Dennis a mensch?

My dictionary defines a mensch as "a person of integrity and honor". What the fuck could a scumbag such as yourself ever possibly understand about integrity and honor?

Jim Gaar - 2012/02/21 21:20:27 UTC

No Tad - No Newton

Not anybody with an IQ much over the mid double digits.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25302
Interview with Davis Straub, OzReport founder

Miller Stroud - 2012/02/21 22:46:25 UTC
Arlington, Tennessee

Hey I commented on a Rigid issue at a comp once and Davis jumped right in there and in so many words said I didn't have a clue and I was probably an Ass. (I was still right)

And you labor under the delusion that Davis ever gives a rat's ass about the difference between right and wrong?

Ok, no feelings hurt.

And, obviously, no outrage when he's fucking over anybody else.

The Man does do alot to expose the sport of hang gliding to the world...

Yeah. In precisely the manner he wants the world to perceive it, him, and his slimeball buddies who control it and keep it in the sewer.

...and I enjoy most of what he puts out.

I never had the slightest doubt, Miller.

And the bottom line. The Oz Report is his. He created it. He owns it. He can say what he pleases. If you don't like it, tune out!

Fuck that. The motherfucker's a total cancer on the sport and anything really worth reading or looking at on his rag was written or developed by somebody else.

Brad Barkley (Darbbb) - 2012/02/23 17:14:21 UTC
Frostburg, Maryland

I thought the interview was well done and an interesting read.
I'd like to see interviews with different instructors out there.

Different? They all seem like dangerous, hang checking, standup landing, pin bending, 130 pound Greenspotting clones to me.

The first question newbies ask is, "Where should I go?

The first question newbies SHOULD ask is, "How come everything done in this sport is based upon opinions, no two of them are the same, and none of them make any sense?"

Who should I take lessons from?"

Someone who hasn't ever had a student run off a cliff without his glider perhaps?

If we had those interviews with various instructors explaining their methods and teaching philosophies, it could be a really good resource for people entering the sport.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 21:40:25 UTC

See, the thing is... "we", the people that work at and run aerotow parks, have a long track record.
This stuff isn't new, and has been slowly refined over decades.
We have done quite literally hundreds of thousands of tows.
We know what we're doing.

Mike Bomstad - 2012/02/24 05:26:03 UTC
Spokane

Allen Sparks - 2012/02/20 21:44:47 UTC

to round it out, you should also do an interview with hang gliding safety activist Tad Eareckson

NMERider - 2012/02/20 23:27:48 UTC

Mike Bomstad - 2012/02/24 05:27:27 UTC

Paul Hurless - 2012/02/21 01:58:42 UTC

Good idea, if by activist you mean "arrogant asshole".

With "Ditto" misspelled all three times. But, hell, people who do most of their speaking in emoticons tend not to be able to tell - or give a rat's ass about - the difference.

Mike Bomstad - 2012/02/24 05:28:53 UTC

http://www.kitestrings.org/topic2.html

So this is where he went to start his s***!

- Nah, Wonder Boy, this is where he went to:

- continue shit he started probably a decade or two before a lot of you useless assholes had ever heard of hang gliding.

- be able:
-- to say "shit" without Jack or Bob replacing three quarters of the word with asterisks.
-- - in the interests of honesty and accuracy - to call you stupid cowardly assholes stupid cowardly assholes.

- engage you stupid cowardly assholes where you can't go running behind the skirts of your stupid cowardly asshole monitors screaming for them to protect you with their bury, edit, lock, delete, and ban buttons.

Wow, what a s*** talker.

- Seems to really bother you that I have a platform in which to exercise my supposed Constitutionally protected freedoms of speech and press. How come?

- Are you AFRAID of something? People who have problems with freedom of speech usually are. What exactly is it that you're afraid of?

http://www.paraglidingforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=28697
Weak links why do we use them. in paragliding.

Mike Bomstad - 2009/12/12 06:46:44 UTC

I know Tad causes some to think, but all the "your going to die...." gets old.

- Are you afraid that I'm gonna cause some to think and maybe prevent someone from dying?

- Why should that bother you? You've never been caused to think by anyone or anything in your entire useless life and...

Mike Bomstad

Everyone who lives dies, yet not everyone who dies, has lived.
We take these risks not to escape life, but to prevent life escaping us.

...if you're not doing really stupid things to needlessly increase your odds of being killed in a really stupid manner, you're just not happy hang gliding.

Wow, what a s*** talker.

- Can you cite an example of me talking shit?

- Wanna come over here to engage me where you don't have any skirts to hide behind? Motherfucker? Without the skirts I'll hand you whatever you have in the way of balls (if any) so fast you won't even have felt them coming off.

Last edited by Wonder Boy on 2012/02/24 05:57:43 UTC; edited 1 time in total

Newton - 2012/02/24 05:43:57 UTC

So this is where is went to start his s***!

Is that a sentance ?

Right sentiment, but ALWAYS run a spellcheck before clicking submit. Not doing so opens you up to attack.

Last edited by Wonder Boy on 2012/02/24 05:57:43 UTC; edited 1 time in total

Mike Bomstad - 2012/02/24 05:58:12 UTC

It is now.

You don't edit stuff AFTER you've been called on it.

You can go post it on your other group now Tad.

What makes you think I'd wanna go sneaking back into Jack's little douchebag colony to try to engage any of you shitheads in an intelligent conversation? I just visit The Jack Show for statistics and to giggle at your X-rays. And it never takes me very long to get the little fixes on which I thrive.

Dennis Wood (peanuts) - 2012/02/24 14:30:14 UTC

So this is where he went to start his s***!

more like a declarative statement....

That's what it read AFTER the fix - DENNIS.

Jack Axaopoulos - 2012/02/24 14:38:01 UTC

How interesting....
Newtons IP address and AeroTows IP addresses both come from the Wichita Kansas area.

Yeah, that's EXTREMELY interesting - seeing as how I'm in Maryland, registered and did all of my posting from Maryland over a local AOL dialup connection, and have never set foot in Kansas - nor any of the five states adjacent to it.

Care to explain newton? Total coincidence?

Yeah, Newton. What do you think? Maybe it's averaging our locations.

Thomas Jefferson wrote:

All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.

Or some dickhead with his finger on the ban button who systematically eliminates anyone with either a conscience of a functional brain from his cult. (Still can't quite figure why you and Bob didn't get along a lot better.)

Brad Barkley - 2012/02/24 14:51:15 UTC
Frostburg

Speaking of brainless cult members...

I think this thread answers your question......
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=24633
FTHI

Hey Brad, you should be really careful about writing sentences which start off with those two words.

Jack Axaopoulos - 2012/02/24 15:00:21 UTC

Tad has been BANNED again.

No he hasn't! But he's wondering if he can count this one for his contest with Warren. Seems only fair 'cause this idiot douchebag BELIEVES he's banning Tad just because he's Tad.

The "Extremist 1%" is not allowed on this site.

You mean the Extremist TOP One Percent, right? If you went for the bottom of the dregs you'd hafta ban yourself.

To provide a friendly and positive, approachable community for people interested in the sport of HG

Please treat the admin as a regular user. As long as you follow the rules, there is NO CHANCE you will banned because you disagree with the admin. The admin would like to be part of this community too without having to walk on egg shells because people think his word holds more weight for whatever reason. It does not. But the admin will do his job as moderator when he has to. But please follow the rules and don't make him do it, he doesn't enjoy that part.

Ooh look!!!

No posts or links about Bob K, Scott C Wise, Tad Eareckson and related people, or their material. ALL SUCH POSTS WILL BE IMMEDIATELY DELETED. These people are poison to this sport and are permanently banned from this site in every possible way imaginable.

The Jack Show Constitution has just been AMENDED!!!

Here's what it said before:

No posts or links about Bob K or Scott C Wise. Those two are poison to this sport and will be permanently banned from this site in every possible way imaginable.

So the amendments are...

...Tad Eareckson...

Wow, not even a post ABOUT me. I must be REALLY SCARY.

...and related people...

What's that mean?
- We gonna stay with the Jim Crow one sixteenth rule? You gonna require submission of a DNA sample as a prerequisite to posting?
- Or does it include people who are on friendly terms with me - or were at one time in the past?
- How 'bout people registered on my forum? I've got about a dozen people over here who are also registered on The Jack Show.

...or their material.

What's that mean? Linking to:
- a thread on The:
-- Davis Show in which I was one of twenty participants?
-- Jack Show in which I was one of twenty participants? Why don't you just delete all of my posts - 251 of them - just to be on the safe side?
- an old Hang Gliding magazine in which I had a letter to the editor published?

ALL SUCH POSTS WILL BE IMMEDIATELY DELETED.

Why not just delete my old stuff? Hell, my aerotow release thread has picked up over nine thousand hits since you locked it down three summers ago - and it had less than seven thousand at the time.

These people...

Was "those two". Good move. Now you can just keep adding people to the list and it'll be a lot easier to edit them in.

Go crawl back under your rock with Bob...

- You don't keep up with things very well, do ya Jack?
- I got my own rock. I had it before I ever heard about Bob's rock.
- Bob's Rock sucks just as much as yours does. Bob's the same kind of scumbag hypocrite you are - just a lot more likable and subtle.

...and the other extremists...

- Extremism in the defense of physics, competence, and common sense is no vice!
- But fostering a cult of moronic douchebags sure as hell is.

...that get themselves banned from every site and group they deal with.

GET THEMSELVES BANNED? You cowardly motherfucker.

You guys have a marvelous record of getting along with people.

They actually do, Jack - just like the members of any other intellectually castrated religious cult.

You can tell yourselves how you are all right, the other 99% are all wrong, and how everyone who disagrees with you is a nazi censor to make yourselves feel better. (Just ignore the hypocrisy that Bob runs the most tightfisted, censored HG forum out there ) Its ok, the rules dont apply to you guys, you are all "special"

Unfuckingbelievable. Neither of you guys has ever seen his reflection in a mirror and you're both accusing each other of being vampires.
---
Edit - 2014/04/19 17:05:00 UTC

2012/02/25 09:42:01 UTC - 3 thumbs up - NMERider

Fuck you, Jonathan.
---

Dan Johnson - 2012/02/24 16:15:13 UTC

Talk about being a mensch? Thanks, SG!

Oh yeah, Dan! Jack has saved you - not only from Tad himself - but anything he's ever said or written, anybody who is related or ever was friends with him, or anybody who finds his material and thinks he might have been right about anything.

And thank PaulH for clueing me in!

Yeah Paul. Thanks for clueing Dan in. It's pretty obvious he's a couple of thousand times too fucking stupid to ever be able to think for himself and clue himself in. And since you're a total asshole too he won't hafta make any difficult adjustments.

Allen Sparks - 2010/09/06 01:03:18 UTC
Evergreen, Colorado

Oscar,

I'm very happy you weren't injured.

Helen,

Thanks for the Tad 'lift and tug' reminder.

I have launched unhooked and experienced the horror of hanging by my fingers over jagged rocks ... and the surreal result - i.e. not being significantly injured.

I am a firm believer in 'lift and tug' and the mindset of assuming I am not hooked in. It is motivated by the recurring memory of my own experience ... and the tragic deaths and life-altering injuries of good friends.

Watch your step, Sparky. (And no, I don't mean the one you keep taking on the ramps five minutes after you remember doing a hang check. I'm always hoping for another good video.) You can't make posts like that any more and I think you're on pretty thin ice just being on record with that one.

Helen McKerral - 2010/01/28 04:15:06 UTC
Adelaide Hills, South Australia

Hiya Tad,
I've been doing the lift and tug for some months now, after our discussion. It's good and it works.

Thomas Jefferson wrote:

All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.

And say hi to Helen for me.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=24633

Jack Axaopoulos - 2012/02/24 15:15:42 UTC

You guys need to PM me when TAD shows up.

Yeah. You guys need to PM Jack whenever anybody THINKS somebody who shows up even MIGHT be Tad. And then Jack can make a preemptive strike - and really piss someone off.

He is NOT allowed to access this website.

You can't stop me, or anyone else, from ACCESSING your idiot website - you moron. It's a WEBSITE ferchrisake.

And you also can't stop your idiot cult members from posting really incriminating evidence before I can get it archived. 'Cause they - and you - are all too fucking stupid to understand the implications of what you're saying.

The IP address area matches Tad's old account.

It couldn't possibly. I canceled my dialup service at the beginning of last month.

If he comes back again, ill contact his ISP for illegal access which could get his account yanked.

Good freaking luck.

And I REALLY wanna thank you for all the free advertising. You're sucking all the brain damaged dregs with Principles Deficit Disorder into you're own little black hole and piquing the curiosity of the people capable of critical thinking that I want. You won't find them in hang gliding at a rate of even one in a thousand but I'm not so much interested in quantity over here anyway.

You keep as many of the dregs as you want. I've already got way more than I need on this list.

P.S. Thanks also for buffering my name from Bob's with Scott's.

[Steve Davy]

Darbbb, when you get some free time go fuck yourself. Stupid asshole.