Re: landing
Posted: 2017/12/02 20:48:13 UTC
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=35737
repetitive landings in turbulent areas continued from another thread
Because he made a crappy approach and squandered the way more than adequate bit of altitude he had upon arrival he majorly clipped a treetop at the beginning of final and got catastrophically nosed in.
Legitimate uses of a drag chute would be to:
- more safely use a marginal length runway
- deal with a:
-- wind shift or unanticipated direction
-- surprise downhill situation
- practice for such situations
It should NOT be used a crutch to compensate for lack of competence in fundamental airmanship.
I couldn't find any relevant rules for the SCFR but its an XC and let's take a look at u$hPa's official crap on relevant qualifications and bear in mind Davis's characterization...
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=49667
Ron Keinan
- handling:
-- turbulence - and if you can't do that much you're not even a competent Two
-- restricted landing fields - and that one had more than twice the RLF specified runway length nicely lined up with a smooth headwind with pretty much zilch in the way of approach obstructions
- sizing up landing situations on the fly and executing
And he totally screwed the pooches in three of the five factors in play. He shouldn't have been in that situation to begin with and the solution is not to give him a drag chute crutch to squeak him through. It's to stand the assholes who signed his tickets up against a fuckin' wall.
And I would submit that if one can't safely handle those Three level requirements one REALLY can't safely handle a drag chute.
- Throw that thing and you've just decertified your glider. It no longer has the glide and speed ranges for which it was designed.
- There's no DC Special Skill in the u$hPa SOPs.
-- Thus there's no relevant training covered and qualification recognized by douchebag organization that mandates everything else we can, must, can't do in the sport. And if the drag chute IS a valuable tool for keeping people alive and u$hPa doesn't recognize it in their SOPs and prescribe training and standards then there's pretty much zilch for which they can be considered legitimate. (Big surprise.)
-- Drag chute issues have killed people who would've been OK otherwise. Hell, you yourself half killed yourself with and because of one in just a practice situation and environment.
Demanding approach and landing competency is totally nonexistent in US hang gliding. It's virtually impossible to find examples of good RLF approaches from anywhere on the planet. They're obviously not being taught anywhere - what IS being taught is to never do anything remotely resembling one - and I'm sure to get one you just pay the rating official a couple hundred bucks.
And note that a Two is supposed to be able to land consistently within a hundred feet of a designated target. This one was three hundred feet wide and seven hundred feet long and he was well set up for it and totally missed.
repetitive landings in turbulent areas continued from another thread
Whole fuckin' sport's a sad part.NMERider - 2017/11/30 20:29:55 UTC
Now here's the sad part:
Had.There are a lot of Woody Valley drogues (same as the Metamorfosi) in WV harnesses that pilots have never used. I have...
...Ron Keinan......a friend...
And now never will....who to my knowledge never used a drogue.
The wind was ENE and was significant enough to make a landing in that direction real advisable.He tried to land his topless glider in a modest size field in little to nil wind.
How 'bout:Because he did not utilize his drogue, he made a shallow approach presumably to avoid an overshoot. That shallow approach resulted in him clipping the top of a tree.
Because he made a crappy approach and squandered the way more than adequate bit of altitude he had upon arrival he majorly clipped a treetop at the beginning of final and got catastrophically nosed in.
He HAD the option of making a steeper approach with zero risk of overshoot and squandered it.His glider lobbed into the soft desert dirt and his head got badly jolted from the impact resulting in a coma and lasting TBI. A reasonable amount of practice and use of his adequate, WV drogue would have given him the option of making a steeper approach without the risk of an overshoot.
It's a real crappy one.This is a classic example of why I have been pushing for a better drogue and encouraging pilots to buy and use them.
Legitimate uses of a drag chute would be to:
- more safely use a marginal length runway
- deal with a:
-- wind shift or unanticipated direction
-- surprise downhill situation
- practice for such situations
It should NOT be used a crutch to compensate for lack of competence in fundamental airmanship.
I couldn't find any relevant rules for the SCFR but its an XC and let's take a look at u$hPa's official crap on relevant qualifications and bear in mind Davis's characterization...
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=49667
Ron Keinan
...of the relevant geography. Dangerous - even for pilots who are SUPPOSED TO BE qualified to handle it.Davis Straub - 2016/09/20 01:45:44 UTC
The task committee put the pilots in a dangerous area.
You need to be a competent Three and competent at:The United States Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association, Inc. - 2017/03/04
Standard Operating Procedure
12. Rating System
02. Pilot Proficiency System
11. Hang Gliding Special Skill Endorsements
-B. Special Skills attainable by Intermediate and above (H3-H5).
02. Turbulence (TUR):
Demonstrates controlled and un-panicked flight in conditions requiring quick, deliberate, substantial, and correct control application.
03. Restricted Landing Field (RLF):
Demonstrates a landing using a downwind leg, base leg and a final leg approach where the entire base leg, final and landing occur within a 300' square.
4. Cross Country (XC):
-a. Must hold 2 and 3 above.
-b. Demonstrate ability to recognize a safe landing area from the air and determine and execute a safe approach and landing, accounting for wind direction, rotors, obstacles, power lines, ground slope, vegetation, etc.
- handling:
-- turbulence - and if you can't do that much you're not even a competent Two
-- restricted landing fields - and that one had more than twice the RLF specified runway length nicely lined up with a smooth headwind with pretty much zilch in the way of approach obstructions
- sizing up landing situations on the fly and executing
And he totally screwed the pooches in three of the five factors in play. He shouldn't have been in that situation to begin with and the solution is not to give him a drag chute crutch to squeak him through. It's to stand the assholes who signed his tickets up against a fuckin' wall.
And I would submit that if one can't safely handle those Three level requirements one REALLY can't safely handle a drag chute.
- Throw that thing and you've just decertified your glider. It no longer has the glide and speed ranges for which it was designed.
- There's no DC Special Skill in the u$hPa SOPs.
-- Thus there's no relevant training covered and qualification recognized by douchebag organization that mandates everything else we can, must, can't do in the sport. And if the drag chute IS a valuable tool for keeping people alive and u$hPa doesn't recognize it in their SOPs and prescribe training and standards then there's pretty much zilch for which they can be considered legitimate. (Big surprise.)
-- Drag chute issues have killed people who would've been OK otherwise. Hell, you yourself half killed yourself with and because of one in just a practice situation and environment.
Demanding approach and landing competency is totally nonexistent in US hang gliding. It's virtually impossible to find examples of good RLF approaches from anywhere on the planet. They're obviously not being taught anywhere - what IS being taught is to never do anything remotely resembling one - and I'm sure to get one you just pay the rating official a couple hundred bucks.
And note that a Two is supposed to be able to land consistently within a hundred feet of a designated target. This one was three hundred feet wide and seven hundred feet long and he was well set up for it and totally missed.