landing

[TheFjordflier]

I DO have the keel camera shots from that particular flight.
I just never found them as spectacular, regarding angles, movement, action-like and so on.
Maybe the wide angle lense on the Sony helmet cam makes it look nicer.
The keel cam looked too ordinary IMO. Without much other flight attitudes than any other landing.
But if you like, I have no problem uploading that sequence too.

[Tad Eareckson]

If it's no trouble... Yeah, sure.

At best might find a useful shot, at worst might see if there are any issues with positioning, aiming, focal length that might be dealt with for better results next time.

Thanks much.

[TheFjordflier]

The Lysebotn landing is the first sequence in this video. Includes several different landings, both new and old. Nothing new, just collecting them into one video. I have wanted to do that for some time, and now I had the excuse.
VIMEO: http://vimeo.com/351869636

[Tad Eareckson]

Saturday (four days ago) I amended the stills collection at:

http://www.kitestrings.org/post11651.html#p11651

with 63 stills from the keel camera...

143-05847-C
http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48498349292_6df0522c3e_o.png


I think they added a useful perspective. If I might be so bold however... I think the mounting, aiming, focal length Jonathan uses for his keel recordings...

07-0811
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1960/43993515545_8f404fdfbc_o.png

47-3106
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5740/22929339631_51243531bc_o.png

48-3121
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5825/22896853706_1f0297165b_o.png

56-3720
http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/763/22297052553_fd9bb656d7_o.png


...are hard to beat. It's nice to be seeing the wing - which isn't blocking much of the scenery - and those shots are really great for explaining to folk how our birds fly and are controlled - interaction of pilot and wing, control bar torque, differential wire tensions, weight/CG and sail billow shift, aileron effect, adverse yaw, sweep, VG... (Pity we can't seem to get through to u$hPa ace instructor Ryan Instant-Hands-Free-Release Voight and his lackeys and victims.) This is what we should be showing and teaching all student and seriously interested individuals before we let them get anywhere near trainer gliders. But I guess The Industry doesn't want people understanding that all we're doing is just a simpler, lighter, cheaper, cruder, less effective implementation of what Wilbur and Orville figured out near the beginning of the previous century.

Thanks much for the additional videos, always great pleasures to watch.

[TheFjordflier]

I think they added a useful perspective. If I might be so bold however... I think the mounting, aiming, focal length Jonathan uses for his keel recordings...

Jonathan is an excellent pilot. Most of his videos are great learning tools. Both regarding camera placement, as you point out, but also his narrative.
I like to experiment with cameras, and their position on my glider. No problem testing the aft/keel camera the way Jonathan uses his. But not sure that I have much to offer when it comes to teaching anyone how to fly. More the other way around, don't fly like this arse...
My flying is very limited. My main goal is to promote hang gliding in general, and scenic Norway in particular, and specially my local sites.
Put a HG in a beautiful scenery and it will probably catch interest from both flyers and non flyers.
Thanks for all the effort analysing people's videos. At best it's almost like the detailed analyses from the NTSB. Really interesting.

[Tad Eareckson]

Jonathan is an excellent pilot.

Yeah. I was pretty upset when he broke his neck in that LZ incident 'cause flying prone for any duration can put a lot of stress on one's neck even if one starts off with a perfectly good one and I didn't think he'd ever be able to come back the way he has.

Most of his videos are great learning tools. Both regarding camera placement, as you point out...

Yeah, top notch. Can't go wrong plagiarizing what he's doing. Some videos I work with give me headaches 'cause they show too much of one aspect at the cost of not enough of another.

...but also his narrative.

Yeah, but I don't deal much (at all maybe) with top level flying 'cause there's no controversy about how to do it, what should be done - once the glider's cleared launch or gotten off tow. Thermalling comp pilots on videos are all gonna look like clones of each other - minus the colors - and they're all gonna make goal within 45 seconds of each other. And nobody's ever gotten a skinned knee from falling out of a thermal - unless one has first pushed his luck too far over hostile terrain.

But not sure that I have much to offer when it comes to teaching anyone how to fly.

I LOVE that approach that I recently went half blind pulling those 165 stills from. It violates the crap outta all the ironclad rules our asshole instructors have been carving into granite since the beginning of time and it was THE way to get into that field with mile wide safety margins.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30722
What happened to JD?

Tom Lyon - 2014/02/04 07:55:19 UTC

That's what I was referring to when I commented on turns near the ground elsewhere. I see so many landings where a low turn from base to final is just standard. And almost all of us have either seen, or know of someone who caught a wingtip or otherwise landed while in a turn. It's so dangerous.

In learning to fly the sailplanes, I had it drilled into me that below 200 feet, my options did not include anything more than maybe a very slight turn to avoid hitting an obstacle. Like 30 degrees from my heading may. A slight bank.

I see hang gliders make 90 degree turns from base to final at maybe 50' - 75' AGL fairly often. And I always cringe. Turns down low definitely appear to be something (from my very limited experience) that our sport needs to take more seriously in terms of avoidance.

068-20101-B
http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48425382501_aaaaaa5dd3_o.png


Low, fully prone, both hands on the CONTROL bar, banked hard, tightish LZ almost directly behind you, narrow final approach path... That may be the real money shot from this approach. (Gimbal's a nice touch too.) Suck it, Tom. Ditto for your dickheaded sailplane and hang glider instructors. Somebody let me know if there's a single one anywhere who teaches legitimate RLF approach and landing technique.

My two biggest fears when I started flying were the unhooked launch and the runway overshoot. Hell, I had the runway overshoot before I started flying.

More the other way around, don't fly like this arse...

I'm wondering how much thermal action you Norway guys get. Just about all of my Mid Atlantic flying was with sustainable ridge lift. It wasn't until the Ridgely AT operation (total flatlands) opened up that I became a fairly competent thermal pilot.

My flying is very limited. My main goal is to promote hang gliding in general...

My main goal now is to kill it - in this neck of the woods anyway. It doesn't deserve to and shouldn't survive. But I'll always be a hundred percent with any effort anywhere to promote it being done right.

...and scenic Norway in particular, and specially my local sites.

Yeah, I've told you I was drooling the whole time I was there.

Put a HG in a beautiful scenery and it will probably catch interest from both flyers and non flyers.

And so many have been permanently eliminated from the sport through crap SOPs and instruction.

Thanks for all the effort analysing people's videos.

Thanks for providing them.

At best it's almost like the detailed analyses from the NTSB. Really interesting.

These stills projects are SO exhausting. They just about always kill at least a day and leave me half blind. But lotsa times you pick up major issues that you'd totally miss watching the live action.

NTSB... u$hPa got to and swallowed the card for the 2015/03/27 Jean Lake crash but our work on that one was about the best and most exhaustive, important, devastating that we've ever done.


42-05206
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8893/17987798463_e86ce323ef_o.png


The radio's strapped to his shoulder but not wired onto his finger and into his helmet so he can actually use it when he really needs to - like when two lives are hanging on the balance. Nah, u$hPa, why would that issue be of the least interest to anyone? I don't think I realized what was going on until I was pulling stills.

Another suggestion...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27415
Friday the 19th with Hawks & Friends!

NMERider - 2012/10/24 21:47:05 UTC

I have to say that landing on the wheels is so much fun it's not funny.

If I had my career to do over again I'd have my harness fully skid-plated and never foot land unless I were coming almost straight down in smooth beach quality wind. I never got hurt due to an imperfectly timed flare but I sure ended a lot of really great flights with embarrassing light air bonks and bowed, bent, snapped aluminum. And even when I got away with it I traded a lot of control, safety margin, fun for a lot of stress and anxiety. You also get more airtime letting the glider land when it wants to.

P.S. This morning - speaking of vision - got my driver's liceense renewed for another eight years. (And haven't had any detached retina flashes since last night.)

[TheFjordflier]

I'm wondering how much thermal action you Norway guys get.

Most of the west coast is a mix of ridge soaring and thermals. The south and most of eastern part (partly flat/valleys) of the country is thermals. There is where you will also find sailplanes and towing HG. Around the valley of Gudbrandsdalen they fly XC. I thermalled there for the first time in my life in my UP Comet2 165. I have several nice places locally for both thermal/ridge soaring, but I get bored after 20-30 minutes.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://shga.com/forum/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6013
Emergency LZ now cleared

Joe Greblo - 2019/05/09 17:04:33 UTC

Somehow the emergency lz (near the base of the Pacoima Dam) has been graded and is now much safer to land on if needed. Imagine that!
The road to launch has been graded as well.

Steve Murillo - 2019/05/09 23:03:35 UTC

Wow! The grading gremlins have been at it again! Now that the Pacoima Wash LZ is safer, perhaps it's time to run another land-out clinic? I'd like to give it a try on my U2!

If you'd wanted to run another land-out clinic you should've done it BEFORE the emergency LZ had been graded and made it much safer to land on if needed. What's the point in all those upright approaches starting at a thousand feet and perfectly timed flares if you're only gonna use them in Happy Acres putting green environments? Do we get our Turbulence signoffs by simulating reacting to turbulence in smooth air and then just flying in smooth air?

http://shga.com/forum/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1099
Tragedy in the L/Z

Joe Greblo - 2008/08/30 03:40:21 UTC

Jeff Craig was killed today when he crashed on approach to landing near the l/z. The accident occurred at around 3:20 pm during a low approach into the wash l/z. He struck a boulder in the riverbed and sustained serious injuries. Club members arrived on scene quickly and Alex Wright and Foster Winter administered CPR until paramedics arrived. He was pronounced dead at the scene.

The exact cause of the accident is not known as some witnesses said that it appeared that Jeff simply did not let the bar out as he toward the rocks. It was estimated that he hit at over 30 mph by one hang 4 witness.

If anyone knows Jeff's wife personally, or knows how we can get a hold of here, let us know as we would like to express our sympathies.

In the meantime, everyone, please fly conservatively.

Sprinkle some boulders around in your practice area. And remember to always fly conservatively. You'll be fine - and a much more skilled and safer pilot for the experience.

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/23.198
Mitch Shipley

Davis Straub - 2019/10/02 15:24:15 UTC

Too long in the short landing zone

So, the rumors are true. I brought Mitch to North Carolina to see his best friend at Tater Hill for his birthday. It was intended to be a flying adventure trip. We would fly Tater, maybe go to Thermal Valley, stay a few nights in the cabins at Lookout - whole nine yards.

On the second day, he flew his paraglider and top landed. I flew my hang glider and top landed as well. Couple beers to celebrate a great day. Then on Wednesday, after an almost 2 hour flight, Mitch had an accident. He overshot the approach. If you have ever flown Tater and landed at the bottom, you know it's a technical approach - especially for a hang glider, let alone a topless. He flew over the road and into a cow pasture. This isn't a smooth field and is also very, very small. So when he got low enough, he drug his feet then skidded on the base bar. He probably skidded for about 20-30 feet before the glider nosed over. The only thing broken was his carbon fiber base bar.

He was in ICU with a hemorrhage (brain bleed) on the left side of his brain for 5 days. He also has an orbital fracture under his right eye and a pretty good cut into his chin. Now he's been cleared to be moved to primary care - which is the in-patient floor. However, this is a busy hospital, so he hasn't actually been transferred yet since there isn't a room to put him in. Things were scary there for a while, so that's why we kept it between family. Now, he's communicating, all of his organs are functioning well, his blood pressure is under control, and he's on pain medications only as needed! Things are looking up and it'll be a slow and steady road ahead.

Please feel free to put whatever good vibes (or whatever suits you best) into the Universe you would like. If you feel the need, please reach out to me during this time. Mitch has a lot to focus on right now - getting better and making progress so it's better to not give him the distraction for a little while.

This is public and I have permission from Kate to publish it.

I don't but... what the fuck. When has that ever stopped me before.

Potato/Tater Hill was my first mountain / non tow high flight. I've written about it here before. 1982/06/17 - Flight 433 - 9.134 hours - Comet 165 - Smooth West 15 - heavy overcast. There were little low clouds blowing through a bit over the top. Got briefly whited out maybe by the first one but managed to dodge subsequents. Got rained on a bit. Plan A was to top land but the wind crapped out a bit abruptly and I lost the option.

We'd checked out the LZ the day before prior to going up the horrible excuse for a road and camping overnight. Tall grass, major downhill but huge and I figured it would be a no brainer to zigzag and get it stopped.

Reality kicked in and I found myself going a million miles an hour in ground effect unable to quite get my feet down to drag. The grass/hay had been mown and rolled and I was having to dodge the rolls on my back and forth runs.

Here comes the highway, it's blind to my right, I pray there's no semi coming at just the right time, and pop over the road at 36°18'21.68" N 081°44'28.06" W.

I had to go to the right of the building and left of a steam roller and was finally able to drag it down and stop against a barbed wire fence at the cost of a mildly bowed downtube.

Pretty good prequel for this one - but I was a fuckin' Two on my first mountain flight with no coach.

Found out - probably from Stew Smith and buddies back on top the next morning - that I should've landed cross slope to the north. If I had it to do again then downwind/uphill would've been a total no-brainer.

Have a real hard time feeling sorry for Mitch with all the damage he's done to and evil he's perpetrated on the sport - including his now obvious bullshit...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25536
Whoops! Snapped another tip wand :-O

NMERider - 2012/03/14 15:17:14 UTC

Landing clinics don't help in real world XC flying. I have had the wind do 180 degree 15 mph switches during my final legs. What landing clinic have you ever attended that's going to help? I saved that one by running like a motherfukker. And BTW - It was on large rocks on an ungroomed surface.

Jim Rooney threw a big tantrum and stopped posting here.

His one-technique-fits-all attitude espoused on the Oz Report Forum has become tiresome to read. It does not work in the fucked-up world of XC landings and weary pilots.

NMERider - 2012/03/14 15:43:09 UTC

I refuse to come in with both hands on the downtubes ever again. I have had some very powerful thermals and gusts kick off and lost control of the glider due to hands on the DTs. I prefer both hands on the control bar all the way until trim and ground effect. I have been lifted right off the deck in the desert and carried over 150 yards.

Christopher LeFay - 2012/03/15 05:57:43 UTC

<rant>January's canonization of Rooney as the Patron Saint of Landing was maddening. He offered just what people wanted to hear: there is an ultimate, definitive answer to your landing problems, presented with absolute authority. Judgment problems? His answer is to remove judgment from the process- doggedly stripping out critical differences in gliders, loading, pilot, and conditions. This was just what people wanted- to be told a simple answer. In thanks, they deified him, carving his every utterance in Wiki-stone.</rant>

...landing clinics.

No wheels or skids by the way. If he'd had either he and his glider would've undoubtedly come out smelling like a rose. But those are for girls. (And Jonathan... If you wanna put in a plug for drag chutes now would probably be a really excellent time.)

Bear in mind that this was the primary/only and well known LZ. So much for the utility of Mitch's landing clinic expertise for XC. Reminds me a lot of his Standard Aerotow Weak Link inconvenience response instruction.

I'm guessing the date on this imperfectly timed flare was 2019/09/25.

Check out Google Earth street view at those coordinates. (Use the URLs for full resolution.)

http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48864678588_e9855cd106_o.png


http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48864678518_167692449a_o.png

That's EXACTLY what it looked like - minus the trailer parked to the right of the building on the west side. LZ's again mined with the fresh hay rolls.

Thanks Brian bigtime for the 2019/10/03 18:11:01 UTC tipoff.

P.S. (Feeling any better...



Paul?)

[Tad Eareckson]

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35583
Mitch Shipley

Jay Z - 2019/10/03 05:15:30 UTC

Overshot his final?

He didn't overshoot his final. He totally fucked up his whole approach.

Can't help but suspect that the transitioning back and forth between PG and HG wreaked havoc with his landing approach instincts.

Bullshit. He never had any landing instincts to begin with.

Davis Straub - 2019/10/03 14:59:03 UTC

When I flew at Tater, Bubba Goodman said that I had to fly a single surface glider because of the restricted LZ.

It's not the SLIGHTEST BIT restricted. It's fuckin' huge but downhill.

Bubba tried to do a hang gilding competition there but switched to a paragliding competition because of this problem.

So much for 100.00 percent of everything the sport of hang gliding stands for on landings. As soon as things start getting moderately problematic...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28835
Why I don't paraglide

Tom Emery - 2013/04/17 14:29:12 UTC

Been flying Crestline about a year now. I've seen more bent aluminum than twisted risers. Every time another hang pounds in, Steven, the resident PG master, just rolls his eyes and says something like, "And you guys think hang gliding is safer."

...switch to paragliding. (Right...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/15 06:48:18 UTC

Davis has been at an around all this plenty long enough to understand what's what and who's who.

...Jim?)

Hey Jim...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22660
What can be learned from this "scooter" towing accident?

Mitch Shipley - 2011/01/31 15:22:59 UTC

Enjoy your posts, as always, and find your comments solid, based on hundreds of hours / tows of experience and backed up by a keen intellect/knowledge of the issues when it comes to most things in general and hang gliding AT/Towing in particular. Wanted to go on record in case anyone reading wanted to know one persons comments they should give weight to.

No well wishes for your ol' buddy? The sport was totally CRAWLING with close friends of yours. I'm now thinking that all those friendships must've been pretty shallow. With a parasitic little egomaniacal sociopath such as yourself it's really hard to begin to imagine any other scenario.

Jonathan... Never mind, I see you're already doing it on an adjacent thread.