landing

[Tad Eareckson]

Safety & Training

Safety_Training@ushpa.aero - Dave Broyles

Change to Landing Tasks

Either in addition to the current spot task, or replacing the current spot task, allow a higher number of cumulative, non-consecutive spots over a longer period. For example, 9 spots in 90 days. The 90 day period is a moving window and the 9 spots must occur entirely within that window. This would make the spot landing task more fun and less stressful.

Other numbers than 9 and 90?

If adopted, consider deleting optional landing task?

Gee, I thought the whole original purpose of the spot landing requirement was for the pilot to develop the skill to be able to perform safe, consistent, accurate, standup landings so he can fly over very dangerous terrain with minimal bailout options in whatever conditions present themselves.

A Hang Three, for example, should be able to launch off a ridge when the only survivable area is a hundred foot wide circle of relatively flat ground in the boulder field below.

And a Hang Four should be able to push his mileage in an XC competition when his safety is dependent upon stopping it in God knows what kind of wind and turbulence inside of a rocky fifty foot circle surrounded bushes, stumps, and boulders that he fortunately sighted from seven hundred feet AGL a half mile upwind when he was just about to put out an SOS on the two meter.

I've got a USHGA card - issued 1991/12/17 - that says I can do this. And when I present it to a competition organizer he knows what kind of task he can safely set for me and the other Fours.

But now you maybe wanna say, "Fly as much as your available sites, weather, time, cash, endurance, and observers allow and pick your best nine."

I'm not sure you'd get the same quality of pilot we have today - the ones who can safely, consistently, accurately, and unerringly nail those spots, stay on their feet, and keep the basetube and nose off the ground.

Other numbers than 9 and 90?

How 'bout zero and ten thousand?

If adopted, consider deleting optional landing task?

Yeah, let's do that. Why should hang gliders start landing and thinking like everybody else who's flown fixed wing aircraft over the course of the past century plus?

And let's start some serious discussions about ratings suspensions and revocations for the heretics who advocate and perform wheel landings.

[Tad Eareckson]

Wills Wing

Sport 2 135, 155 and 175
Owner / Service Manual

Technical Information and Placarded Operating Limitations

Be advised that pilots with hook in weights of less than 20 lbs above minimum will find the Sport 2 more demanding of pilot skill to fly, and that pilots hooking in within 20 lbs of the maximum will experience some relative degradation of optimum sink rate performance due to their higher wing loading, as well as increased difficulty in foot-landing the glider in very light winds or at high density altitudes.

Meaning, of course, that it's a total non issue to wheel land a heavily loaded glider in very light winds or at high density altitudes. But, of course, nowhere in the manual is there the slightest hint that wheel landing is an option to be considered. (Guess they sell more downtubes that way.)

[Tad Eareckson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaTu5Y4WBdY

02-2507

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Glenn Zapien - 2010/03/07
Cereso, California

Pilot Error.

Bummer dude. There was a North component to the wind direction, and flying slow can put you in a turn into the trees. He was fine. The trees caught him gracefully but sustained broken leading edges on both wings.

If you want to fly fast do you stay prone on the basetube or go upright to the downtubes?

Morganizer - 2012/01/12

The mistake he made was letting the bar out as he transitioned to the down tubes. This slowed the glider down and stalled the inner wing. Always safer to transition at trim while you've still got some height, then pull on speed. Legs dangling adds drag, lets you land slower.

1. What if he didn't transition to the downtubes until after he was down and level in ground effect?

2. What if he waited until he was at trim in ground effect before he transitioned?

3. If he had never transitioned to the downtubes - even without wheels - do you think his day would've been as expensive as it was as things were?

4. Does anybody else think that issue of his hand slipping and being off the high side downtube around 0:37 and 0:38...

17-3703


...might have had some bearing on the situation?

5. Dangling legs DO add drag but DO NOT let you land slower - the freakin' glider still stalls at the same speed. Added drag lets you come in steeper, slow down faster, and land shorter but none of those issues appeared to be amongst Andy's biggest problems here.
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Edit - 2014/04/24 15:40:00 UTC

Still shots from the video under discussion have been and are being edited into these posts. At the time I wasn't using software which allowed me to go through videos frame by frame and capture the good stuff - the way Final Cut Pro does.

[Steve Davy]

4. Does anybody else think that issue of his hand slipping and being off the high side downtube around 0:37 and 0:38 might have had some bearing on the situation?

Looks like he got his arm around the outside of the right rear wire. Noticing what he had done, went for a re-grab for the down tube.

[Steve Davy]

Similar to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrXIsHfgh0Q

[Tad Eareckson]

Yeah. That's the only thing that makes any sense and I hadn't considered it. And it was driving me nuts. Thanks. (Funny nobody's mentioned it in the postmortems.)

On my older glider - HPAT 158 - you really couldn't do that - but I wish I had a nickel for every time I bounced a hand off a tail wire during a transition effort.

On the newer stuff, Wills Wing - and probably everybody else - increased the control frame rake by moving the apex back on the keel so you could get better flare authority with your hands high on the downtubes. That brought the downtubes very close to the tail wires and I bellied in (lightly) on a demo Talon 150 on 2002/06/11 at Ridgely because a hand bounced and I couldn't get back in time.

Observations...

- They increase the rake to increase flare authority to make it easier to do foot landings.

- By increasing the rake to increase flare authority to make it easier to do foot landings they increase the difficulty of actually getting to the downtubes to keep the glider under good enough control to do ANY kind of landing.

- Ridgely, Elsinore, and McClure are all wheel friendly environments.

- I got off OK, Dave bent a downtube slightly with his face, Andy snapped two leading edge spars.

- All three of us - with or without wheels - would've been better off staying prone on the basetube.

- Dave and Andy would've been WAY better off staying prone on the basetube.

- Andy would've been WAY WAY better off staying prone on the basetube.

- Everybody's talking about WHEN and HOW to transition, but nobody's talking about WHETHER transitioning is always such a great idea.

[Steve Davy]

The motion I use is opposite from what is seen in Dave's video. My hands never come close to the rear wires. Nothing to do with training or practice, it just never occurred to me to swing my arm down, back, out and around like that.

Another example of catching the rear wire at 4:22.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBO6GGpdqpM
Chris North Launch ED Levin
katstrike - 2011/01/12
dead

[Tad Eareckson]

For most of the second half of my flying career my flights tended to be long and infrequent, i.e., I didn't get a lot of landing practice. And thus I was always a bit nervous about transitioning. And thus I tended to make quick nervous grabs for the downtube.

I don't recall how often I bounced off a wire but when I did I do recall thinking, "That was stupid, why didn't you just move your hand over and up?" And I think I'd manage to do it that way once or twice after a bounce but would always revert back to instinctive.

I notice that Andy, Dave, and Chris all have the problem with the right hand and think that's one I'd bounce. And I'm right handed and think that's the hand I'd move up first.

And I notice that Chris goes outside three times before getting it right.

It would be fun to find more of these and look for a pattern.

[miguel]

Some information not apparent:

North component means he was landing cross wind. The cross wind comes in turbulent gusts. There are also rolling rotors that come off the trees and thermals popping off. Fly too slowly and you will get turned into the trees.

The approach made was kind of a show off approach with no margin for error. Things happen very quickly. Looks cool when done correctly.

Landing in a gusty crosswind requires that, at times, corrections be made strongly and instantaneously.

Some pilots go upright early on to deal with the turbulence. Much easier to hug a downtube when upright than prone.

There was an accident a while back where a prone pilot got turned into the brush and got a helicopter ride.

Landing on wheels is no panacea. In any case, you must fly the glider through the turbulence and land it.

[Tad Eareckson]

North component means he was landing cross wind.

I've tried to figure the lay of the land from Google Earth, not sure how well I did. Does that mean from Andy's left?

Looks cool when done correctly.

So do aerobatics. I note that John Heiney is a real wimp when it comes to thermal turbulence.

Much easier to hug a downtube when upright than prone.

But maybe much less NEED to hug a downtube when carrying the extra speed allowed by staying prone down into ground effect?

There was an accident a while back where a prone pilot got turned into the brush and got a helicopter ride.

1. Did he need the chopper ride BECAUSE he was prone?
2. Have any upright pilots had to make other dinner plans?

Landing on wheels is no panacea.

No, landings will always be one of two great stages of a flight in which to kill oneself. But I'll bet Chris Starbuck would've done a much better job keeping that glider in one piece than Andy did.

In any case, you must fly the glider through the turbulence and land it.

Have you ever felt an urge to go upright to handle turbulence at altitude?