landing

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
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<BS>
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Re: landing

Post by <BS> »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=59466
2019 Nationals (week 2)
Davis wrote:I pick out a huge field that I am familiar with just east of the Seminole glider port. I look around and there appears to be no wind in the field. I come in low at the north end assuming a southwest wind, but I am mistaken. It is in fact north east if light. Suddenly I realize that I'm going to eat up the whole field.

Just before I smack into the fence at the southwest corner I turn but hit the fence on the western side. I'm unhurt but there is enough damage to the glider that I won't be flying that one on Wednesday. First time in over 5,000 flights that I've hit a fence.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=59466
2019 Nationals (week 2)
Davis Straub - 2019/04/24 02:49:16 UTC

I'm 17th to launch and we've already had one pilot land. Tim takes me to the south of the field and I find strong lift, 400 fpm to 4,300'. When it peters out I head north east then east looking for the next thermal. I don't find anything even in the smoke from the fire to the east. Kevin Dutt is right below me and he turns to go back to Wilotree Park for a landing just as I do.

Unfortunately I take out a down tube on landing, but fortunately David Lopez and Alex Skyride operate as a pit crew and get me back in line for another tow. It's probably been three years since I took out a down tube.
Just a bit of inconvenience now and then.
Col Rushton - 2019/04/25 01:13:04 UTC

I enjoy your flight reports and appreciate your honesty...
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
...stuff can happen. There were 3 dislocated elbows at the Big Air, 2 very good pilots flying topless gliders and one ? sports glider, all light / no wind landings.. :)
Brad Gryder - 2019/04/25 03:24:50 UTC

Glad you were not hurt Davis. If I ever quit flying rigid wings with their large flaps and move on to topless racers, I'm going with the drouge 'chute option. Thanks for the report which might help someone else.
Undoubtedly something else we all can learn from.
Image
28°24'20.10" N 081°49'21.10" W
Blue_Seleneth - 2019/04/25 14:33:39 UTC

Maybe we should put a DNL on that field! Wink That's where I bent a downtube a few weeks ago.
I'm sure you wouldn't have if you'd been able to read Davis's post first.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30722
What happened to JD?
Tom Lyon - 2014/02/04 07:55:19 UTC

Regarding this from Mike Meier's article -
"we make bad choices and nothing detrimental happens it reinforce the habit of choosing poorly."

That's what I was referring to when I commented on turns near the ground elsewhere. I see so many landings where a low turn from base to final is just standard. And almost all of us have either seen, or know of someone who caught a wingtip or otherwise landed while in a turn. It's so dangerous.

In learning to fly the sailplanes, I had it drilled into me that below 200 feet, my options did not include anything more than maybe a very slight turn to avoid hitting an obstacle. Like 30 degrees from my heading may. A slight bank.

I see hang gliders make 90 degree turns from base to final at maybe 50' - 75' AGL fairly often. And I always cringe. Turns down low definitely appear to be something (from my very limited experience) that our sport needs to take more seriously in terms of avoidance.
Regarding this from Mike Meier's article -
"we make bad choices and nothing detrimental happens it reinforce the habit of choosing poorly."
Also works really well when extremely bad choices are presented as...

http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5322/10132306074_13fab65d5e_o.jpg
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...Standard Operating Procedure and the results are...
Gil Dodgen - 1995/01

All of this reminds me of a comment Mike Meier made when he was learning to fly sailplanes. He mentioned how easy it was to land a sailplane (with spoilers for glide-path control and wheels), and then said, "If other aircraft were as difficult to land as hang gliders no one would fly them."
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22176
Paragliding Collapses
Jim Rooney - 2011/06/12 13:57:58 UTC

Most common HG injury... spiral fracture of the humerus.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28835
Why I don't paraglide
Tom Emery - 2013/04/17 14:29:12 UTC

Been flying Crestline about a year now. I've seen more bent aluminum than twisted risers. Every time another hang pounds in, Steven, the resident PG master, just rolls his eyes and says something like, "And you guys think hang gliding is safer."
http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2095
Should we try a different way? Designwise....
Steve Corbin - 2015/09/02 22:26:04 UTC

Any un-biased observer should be able to see why wanna-be pilots find PG more attractive than HG. Standing around in the Andy Jackson Memorial International Airpark at a busy fly-in shows that a PG landing is a total non-event, while everyone stands up to watch HG's, piloted by "experts", come in to land. A good landing by a HG is greeted by cheers, an acknowledgement that landing one successfully is a demonstration not just of skill, but good luck as well.
...endless decades worth of unabated carnage.
That's what I was referring to when I commented on turns near the ground elsewhere.
And what a blessing it is that we have you over there in Jack's Living Room to alert all us stupid muppets as to what we need to do to clean up our acts.
I see so many landings where a low turn from base to final is just standard.
Wish I could find some more...

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...good videos of them.
And almost all of us have either seen, or know of someone who caught a wingtip or otherwise landed while in a turn.
Yep.

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It's so dangerous.
Yep...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=12682
Landing on your feet (for AEROTOW)- So Dangerous
Jack Axaopoulos - 2009/06/29 14:26:26 UTC

OMG!!! You dont even have wheels!!?!?!?!? Image
YOURE GONNA DIE FOR SUUUUREE!!!! Image
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I have a brilliant idea. People who cant land for sh*t.... LEARN TO LAND Image That way when a weak link breaks on you, ITS A NON-ISSUE. Genius huh??? Image
So Dangerous. Image

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In learning to fly the sailplanes, I had it drilled into me that below 200 feet...
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...my options did not include anything more than maybe a very slight turn to avoid hitting an obstacle.
And here he is, plain as day, well below 200 feet going base to final:

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Like 30 degrees from my heading may. A slight bank.
You really nailed it, JackieB. (Odd the way he seems to have caught the wrong tip though...

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Go figure.)
I see hang gliders make 90 degree turns from base to final at maybe 50' - 75' AGL fairly often. And I always cringe.
Guess you're still cringing now - half a decade later. Still waiting for that fifty foot asshole to misjudge his altitude and fatally cartwheel. Just a matter of time.
Turns down low definitely appear to be something (from my very limited experience)...
...and totally nonexistent intellect...
...that our sport needs to take more seriously in terms of avoidance.
Looks like you really got through to them. Keep up the great work.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Jump to next post:
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Real world sailplane fly-by, approach, landing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQKsnjt4lP8
Flying the Duo Discus sailplane glider high speed low pass & landing Roy Dawson video
Roy Dawson - 2018/07/27

http://texassoaring.org
Texas Soaring Association
9270 Singleton Road
Midlothian TX 76065



http://texassoaring.org
Flying the Duo Discus sailplane glider flyby & landing.
Duo Discus is a high-performance two-seat glider primarily designed for fast cross-country flying, including gliding competitions. It is often used for advanced training.

General characteristics
- Crew: Two
- Capacity: 200 kg (440 lb) water ballast
- Length: 8.73 m (28 ft 3 in)
- Wingspan: 20.00 m (65 ft 7 in)
- Height: ca. 1.60 m (5 ft 3 in)
- Wing area: 16.4 m2 (176 ft2)
- Aspect ratio: 24.4
- Wing profile: DFVLR HX 83
- Empty weight: 410 kg (900 lb)
- Gross weight: 700 kg (1,540 lb)
Performance
- Maximum speed: 263 km/h (164 mph)
- Maximum glide ratio: 46-47
- Rate of sink: 0.58 m/s (114 ft/min)
TA11 - 660' MSL
Glider stops:
32°23'03.30" N 097°00'42.67" W

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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30722
What happened to JD?
Tom Lyon - 2014/02/04 07:55:19 UTC

Regarding this from Mike Meier's article -
"we make bad choices and nothing detrimental happens it reinforce the habit of choosing poorly."
That's not from Mike Meier's article. That's from Jonathan 2014/02/04 04:56:56 UTC - as he tries to point out below at 2014/02/04 15:02:37 UTC - but I'm not sure you ever got it. (And it needs some proofreading, Jonathan.)
That's what I was referring to when I commented on turns near the ground elsewhere. I see so many landings where a low turn from base to final is just standard.
Wow. With all those wingtips they're inevitably catching one wonders how it ever became and still remains standard.
And almost all of us have either seen, or know of someone who caught a wingtip or otherwise landed while in a turn. It's so dangerous.
There are essentially ZERO incidents involving tips being caught while turning base to final. The few people who do them are either landing in tight fields or practicing for same. They're the ones who have their shit together.
In learning to fly the sailplanes...
Undoubtedly to the same stellar skill level to which you've progressed in flying hang gliders.
...I had it drilled into me that below 200 feet, my options did not include anything more than maybe a very slight turn to avoid hitting an obstacle. Like 30 degrees from my heading may. A slight bank.
1. If it was so fucking dangerous then why did you need to have it drilled into you? Did they also need to have the importance of not flying into powerlines drilled into you?

2. YOUR options.

3. And fuck your instructor. If he didn't totally suck he'd be constantly working on teaching you to EXPAND your options. In my galaxy OPTIONS are GOOD things.

4. I never had anything DRILLED into me in the course of my hang gliding instruction and career. Yeah, I drank the perfectly timed flare Kool-Aid and it took me nearly my whole career to see it for the total bullshit it was but I always kept flying the glider in situations that really called for it. Ditto for the Standard Aerotow Weak Link but I was the major suicide bomber in blowing that one apart.

5. Anybody who needs to have anything DRILLED into him shouldn't be flying. REAL pilots learn aeronautical theory and develop the physical skills and responses needed to apply it.
I see hang gliders make 90 degree turns from base to final at maybe 50' - 75' AGL fairly often. And I always cringe.
Here's a sailplane at no more than 75 feet:

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who's still just checking out the airport. He's gonna roll about sixty degrees...

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...then head about three quarters of a mile back downwind to roll onto final.

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You'd undoubtedly be totally exhausted from all the cringing you'd be doing.
Turns down low definitely appear to be something (from my very limited experience) that our sport needs to take more seriously in terms of avoidance.
What did you're fuckin' idiot instructor say about PITCH?

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Whatever?

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Not important?

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It's only low turns we gotta worry about?

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http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22176
Paragliding Collapses
Jim Rooney - 2011/06/12 13:57:58 UTC

Most common HG injury... spiral fracture of the humerus.
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Tad Eareckson
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Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=36508
Some recent observations
Doug Bebensee - 2019/07/04 17:17:56 UTC

So, could there be some new innovation, event, etc. just lurking back in someone's mind that could revive hang gliding? It is my opinion that none of the things presented so far in the forums discussions will do this. It is also my opinion "at any point in time, there is more to be discovered than has ever been discovered".
Gil Dodgen - 1995/01

All of this reminds me of a comment Mike Meier made when he was learning to fly sailplanes. He mentioned how easy it was to land a sailplane (with spoilers for glide-path control and wheels), and then said, "If other aircraft were as difficult to land as hang gliders no one would fly them."
Prone wheel landings.

Nah, just kidding, too little too late. You're fucked.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=59593
Medical issues
Old.swamp.yankee - 2019/05/04 16:02:56 UTC

As the result of a heart attack a year ago January I am now taking blood thinners along with Other meds. My heart & artieries are in good shape. The heart attack was caused by A-Fib (basically erratic heart beat). There was no physical damage to my heart. This is now under control w/meds I am taking.

Was told by my cardiologist blood thinners make you susceptible to eternal bleeding From blunt trama. When I asked if he had a problem w/my desire to continue flying he replied that's a personnel decision he couldn't make for me. I am wrestling w/that Decision now. The hang gliding demographic is aging & I am sure there are others who Who are faced w/the same decision. I know of at least one still flying & taking blood Thinners. Just wondering if when faced with the same decision would you keep flying?

Keep in mind that hard wack could cause internal bleeding.
Nathanflies_ - 2019/07/27 16:55:07 UTC

wheel landing

There is always the option of getting honking big safe wheels and just belly landing from hence forth, no shame in that my man.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29884
Hat Creek Power Whack
Mike Bilyk - 2013/09/07 17:07:26 UTC

Wheel landings are for girls!
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Jump to next post:
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Long overdue siills project. (But boy these things are labor intensive.)

http://vimeo.com/226578935

APPROACH and LANDING.
TheFjordflier - 2017/07/22 19:47 UTC

Lysebotn, Norway.
http://www.kitestrings.org/post10327.html#p10327

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---
2019/08/10 17:00:00 UTC

Have amended the approach and landing sequence from this 2019/05/26 flight of Jan's with 63 keel camera stills from the first sequence from:


SOME LANDINGS
TheFjordflier - 2019/08/04 11:03 UTC

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LZ entrance immediately inboard of port nose wire - 59°03'18.81" N 006°39'21.74" E.

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Two close and near parallel runs of powerlines - the major one freakin' obvious, the other just to the left of and parallel to the camera boom.

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Narrow dry riverbed with large rocks strewn all over the place option available for Grebloville products.

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Sheep.

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Turned back to the East.

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Dangerous hard banked turn onto final well below two hundred feet.

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Camera 2

And from the gimbaled boom (versus helmet) camara.

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See 041-11319-A above.

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However does one manage to execute a landing flare minus an old Frisbee in the middle of field.

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Camera 3

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Camera 3 - End

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User avatar
TheFjordflier
Posts: 74
Joined: 2015/03/07 17:11:59 UTC

Re: landing

Post by TheFjordflier »

Nice job finding useful frames without any captions on them. ;)
User avatar
Tad Eareckson
Posts: 9161
Joined: 2010/11/25 03:48:55 UTC

Re: landing

Post by Tad Eareckson »

You noticed. The vast majority of those frames are immediately before the beginnings of the caption fade-ins and immediately after the ends of the caption fade-outs.

If you do that approach again how 'bout giving me a keel camera.

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Nice for showing what's going on with the pilot, glider, approach path.
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