Kite Strings

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/12 18:00:27 UTC

Your second statement is why.
I just buried my friend and you want me to have a nice little discussion about pure speculation about his accident so that some dude that's got a pet project wants to push his theories?

Deltaman loves his mouth release.
BFD

I get tired as hell "refuting" all these mouth release and "strong link" arguments. Dig through the forums if you want that. I've been doing it for years but unfortunately the peddlers are religious in their beliefs so they find justification any way they can to "prove" their stuff. This is known as "Confirmation Bias"... seeking data to support your theory... it's back-asswards. Guess what? The shit doesn't work. If it did, we'd be using it everywhere. But it doesn't stand the test of reality.

AT isn't new. This stuff's been worked on and worked over for years and thousands upon thousands of tows. I love all these egomaniacs that jump up and decide that they're going to "fix" things, as if no one else has ever thought of this stuff?

But back to the root of my anger... speculation.
Much like confirmation bias, he's come here to shoehorn his pet little project into a discussion. Please take your snake oil and go elsewhere.

Tune him up?
Yeah, sorry... no.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 06:15:12 UTC

You're looking for an argument were there is none.

Please note:
is that for those that see the sole purpose of the weak link

This is a very different question than "what is the purpose of a weak link".
One allows for multiple purposes, the other doesn't.

So, you see, we're both "right".
The argument you're trying to create is one of semantics.

You may not know, but Davis is a friend of mine.
We have discussed this many times in person. We are not in disagreement.

If you can not see that we're in agreement, perhaps I can clear things up for you. Or Davis can.
Either way, you're the one creating the drama.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31717
Weak link?

Davis Straub - 2014/08/20 19:48:26 UTC

Many of us are now using 200 lb test line from Cortland.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31747
Lockout

Davis Straub - 2014/09/01 15:22:41 UTC

I can tell you that I fly with a 200lb weaklink on one side of my 750lb pro tow bridle. I am happy with it.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32776
Can't release the tow line

Aleksey Vilkov - 2015/08/03 06:17:16 UTC

Statik line towing with two stage release.
You can see here two ordinary releases. The first one is Russian Mouth Release (RMR), the second one is barrel type release made with webbing and short peace of pipe.
So, pilot is taking off with RMR and after reaching about 150-200 meters he is connecting second release with the bridle below speedbar to the ring in the end of line using ordinary carabiner. Of course he is immediately releasing RMR and continuing towing with barrel release.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJLG3oUbkEg

Davis Straub - 2015/08/03 13:05:54 UTC

Perfect.

- Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney has gotten tired as hell "refuting" all these mouth release and "strong link" arguments. Dig through the forums if you want. He's been doing it for years.

- You may not know this, but Davis Dead-On Straub is a friend of Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney's. They've discussed this many times in person and they're not in disagreement.

- Davis Dead-On Straub and many of us are now using and happy with two hundred pound Tad-O-Links that never break when they're supposed to.

- Aleksey introduces one of the mouth releases that we're not using everywhere because it doesn't stand the test of reality.

- Davis Dead-On Straub - who's a friend of and not in disagreement with Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney - pronounces it "PERFECT".

Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney stays way the fuck under his rock with his mouth very tightly and conspicuously shut.

Fuckin' Guinness World Record for having painted oneself into a corner. We've made some history that people are tripping all over themselves not talking about. Nobody will EVER AGAIN be able to pass himself off as a highly experienced tow professional who has things sussed a bit better than Joe Weekender. That asshole permanently queered things for the entire industry worldwide. And we're living in a new digital age in which inconvenient truths are and will be impossible to bury.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=43636
Two stage mouth/barrel release

Davis Straub - 2015/08/12 20:58:54 UTC

Combining the safest aerotow release with the next safest

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32776
Can't release the tow line

Aleksey Vilkov - 2015/08/03 06:17:16 UTC

Statik line towing with two stage release.
You can see here two ordinary releases. The first one is Russian Mouth Release (RMR), the second one is barrel type release made with webbing and short peace of pipe.
So, pilot is taking off with RMR and after reaching about 150-200 meters he is connecting second release with the bridle below speedbar to the ring in the end of line using ordinary carabiner. Of course he is immediately releasing RMR and continuing towing with barrel release.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJLG3oUbkEg

Aleksey Vilkov - 2015/08/10 08:55:38 UTC

RMR action

You can see with more details on the attached video how the combination of the Russian Mouth Release and barrel release is working at two-stage towing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1yBgSk9pOw

Oh. So this is the safest aerotow release.

- So then how come you've outlawed them...

http://ozreport.com/2013USNationalsrules.php
2013 US Nationals at Big Spring, Texas

2.0 EQUIPMENT

Appropriate aerotow bridles

Competitors must use appropriate aerotow bridles as determined by the Meet Director and Safety Director and their designated officials. Bridles must include secondary releases (as determined by the Safety Director). Bridles must be able to be connected to the tow line within two seconds. The only appropriate bridles can be found here:
http://OzReport.com/9.039#0

and:
http://ozreport.com/9.041#2.



Pilots who have not already had their bridles inspected during the practice days must bring their bridles to the mandatory pilot safety briefing and have them reviewed. Pilots with inappropriate bridles may purchase appropriate bridles from the meet organizer.

at the past three Big Spring comps and have said NOTHING while your favorite cocksucker was spewing his crap about them not working in reality?

- Bull fucking shit, douchebag. There's no such thing as a safe one point aerotow system. The safest aerotow release on the planet is my built-in two point system:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8318603266/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8306300488/

Although you're a thousand times better off flying one point with any of the bite controlled stuff than any of the crap that comes out of Quallaby and Lockout.

Oh. An easily reachable barrel release is the NEXT safest. Where's your data on that? And aren't you gonna advise Aleksey that the pin needs no be bent to make it more reliable?

There's very little that's safe about that second stage release. That's how come it's not connected to the towline until after you've cleared the kill zone.

Saulius Guobužas - 2015/08/14 08:52:21 UTC
Lithuania

Me and my twin brother use very similar system for quite a while. Works really great because near the ground you are much safer.

So where were you and your twin brother during Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney's rants against anything that wasn't the easily reachable bent pin crap that Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey pulled outta his ass?

Aleksey Vilkov - 2015/08/14 11:56:43 UTC

I would like to add that we are using RMR not only for aerotowing, but also for all kind of ground towing including platform and dolly launch.

Please take a look to here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYt9p9ihZX8


and here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5xf8DY7rXg

- Without a release one can use to release himself when he needs to it could be a bit problematic using a dolly on a runway like that.
- How 'bout asking Violet not to use that beautiful green landscape as a trash can for his plastic wrappers.

Relevant topics:

http://www.kitestrings.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87
Kaluzhin Release as Primary w/ 2 Pt. Bridle Setup

http://www.kitestrings.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88
ADVISORIES

Picking up from the aforementioned threads...

Joe Street - 2015/11/07 01:08:01 UTC

I think it might help if you put the edited text up top to ignore the advisory in large bold font. From what I've seen people can barely read these days and I work in a university! If it doesn't hit them between the eyes like a 2x4 they aren't going to see it.

Sales were dismal this year actually. Funny thing, I was just discussing at lunch on Friday with a friend who is a businessman ideas how I could promote the release and boost sales and then I came back to my office to find your email about the advisory. I really felt depressed for a while about it.

I think it might help if you put the edited text up top to ignore the advisory in large bold font.

Done and then some.

From what I've seen people can barely read these days and I work in a university!

And we have total douchebags like Drs. Tracy Tillman and Lisa Colletti TEACHING at them - in a state which borders your province.

If it doesn't hit them between the eyes like a 2x4 they aren't going to see it.

I know that all of the people who contribute to Kite Strings and at least a fair chunk of the people who read it don't resemble that remark. The same is undoubtedly true for the sorts of people who don't buy what the commercial operations are trying to sell them.

Besides... You don't really want those assholes flying your release. You want them flying Quallaby and Lockout crap and dying on it. They leave the hang gliding gene pool and you get FANTASTIC advertising. Win/Win. Think how much money someone could've made in the late winter / early spring of 2013 if he'd cornered the market on two hundred pound fishing line. All the flight parks were quietly giving their spools of 130 away to kids to use for their kites back then.

Sales were dismal this year actually.

Sorry to hear that. But...

Funny thing, I was just discussing at lunch on Friday with a friend who is a businessman ideas how I could promote the release and boost sales...

You can't.

If hang gliding weren't the total corrupt shitheap of a fringe activity it is your release and rip-offs would've driven the crap out of circulation. (Actually your release would've never existed 'cause two point AT releases would all be built in by the manufacturers.)

Look around at all the commercial aerotow operations sites and try to find out what they're using and selling (not necessarily the same thing) for AT equipment. You'll find damn near nothing 'cause they all know they're selling shoddy junk and don't want the exposure. And that's a historical shift - they all used to prominently feature this stuff and sing praises about its quality.

On the same lines... Try to find ONE operation that's disclosing what flavor of magic fishing line it's using and advising for the focal point of one's safe towing system. Motherfuckers all know exactly what Team Tad's Hole In The Ground will do to them the instant they show their hands - the two-plus-two-equals-four threat.

Stuff mostly gets sold on-site to students (victims) who are told whatever junk they're unloading is top quality / state of the "art".

The people who are gonna buy your release are the one percenters capable of some degree of independent and rational thought. And the reason your sales were dismal this year is 'cause all the one percenters already have your release.

...and then I came back to my office to find your email about the advisory. I really felt depressed for a while about it.

Sorry 'bout that. I was really depressed when I thought there'd need to be a massive recall of an item into which a lot of quality work had gone. But I truly believe that this little dust-up has been a totally positive thing. Believed we had a potentially lethal problem, erred on the side of caution, got the word out IMMEDIATELY, got to the bottom of the issue, cancelled the alert. Everyone involved acted solely and entirely out of concern for the pilot and the sport. And that's exactly what the sorta individual we want flying this thing - or flying hang gliders in general - wants to see. Precise and polar opposite of what he sees and gets from u$hPa/HPAC and commercial thrill ride industry controlled hang gliding.

Something I just noticed...

Kite Strings currently has 22 registered users who've posted at least once, 17 who've posted twice or more. I'm pretty sure nobody who can seriously be considered a contributor has ever made anything that can be halfway seriously considered money 'cept Yours Truly - and that was over 33 years ago and just enough for survival and support of my flying habit at the Kitty Hawk Dunes Ride Factory.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 04:55:25 UTC

Ditto dude.

It always amazes to hear know it all pilots arguing with the professional pilots.
I mean seriously, this is our job.
We do more tows in a day than they do in a month (year for most).

We *might* have an idea of how this stuff works.
They *might* do well to listen.
Not that they will, mind you... cuz they *know*.

I mean seriously... ridgerodent's going to inform me as to what Kroop has to say on this? Seriously? Steve's a good friend of mine. I've worked at Quest with him. We've had this discussion ... IN PERSON. And many other ones that get misunderstood by the general public. It's laughable.

Don't even get me started on Tad. That obnoxious blow hard has gotten himself banned from every flying site that he used to visit... he doesn't fly anymore... because he has no where to fly. His theories were annoying at best and downright dangerous most of the time. Good riddance.

So, argue all you like.
I don't care.
I've been through all these arguments a million times... this is my job.
I could be more political about it, but screw it... I'm not in the mood to put up with tender sensibilities... Some weekend warrior isn't about to inform me about jack sh*t when it comes to towing. I've got thousands upon thousands of tows under my belt. I don't know everything, but I'll wager the house that I've got it sussed a bit better than an armchair warrior.

Amateurism is DEFINITELY where ya wanna put your "money" in this game. Probably oughta make a Kite Strings rule excluding anybody who's making anything above cost from this sport - but I'm pretty sure that's totally unnecessary.

More hang gliding inverse-square law: The likelihood of an individual posting to Kite Strings or addressing Kite Strings posts elsewhere is inversely proportional to the square of the money he makes from the sport for positive values. For negative it's directly.

Dave Gills - 2015/11/08 07:41:59 UTC

I think Lookout Mountain sells the rope pull...

Yep.

http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1558/25912821781_ced007a9d6_o.jpg


The "tow equipment" for which GT Manufacturing Inc. (GT) and Lockout Mountain Flight Park, Inc. (LMFP)...

Matt Taber - 2009/07/12

GT Manufacturing Inc. (GT) and Lookout Mountain Flight Park Inc. (LMFP) make no claim of serviceability of this tow equipment. There is no product liability insurance covering this gear and we do not warrant this gear as suitable for towing anything.

...make no claim of serviceability and don't warrant it as suitable for towing anything. And if you don't like flying this "tow equipment" for which GT Manufacturing Inc. (GT) and Lockout Mountain Flight Park, Inc. (LMFP)...

We make no claim of serviceability in any way and recommend that you do not use this aerotow gear if you are not absolutely sure how to use it and or if you are unwilling to assume the risk. Towing and flying hang gliders is inherently dangerous.

...make no claim of serviceability and don't warrant as suitable for towing anything you can go fuck yourself.

...and Blue Sky sells the handbrake one.

Oh look!

http://www.blueskyhg.com/products/accessories/ATprimary2.jpg


Some Industry asshole seems to be getting something of a grasp on the concept of the second class lever and mechanical advantage. Maybe in another twenty-five years or so we can start understanding issues of cable binding friction and aerodynamic parasitic drag. The sky's the limit.

Nice job, by the way, on the photo, Steve. Really enjoy putting my life in the hands of someone who takes a lot of care and pride in everything he does.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8306258400/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8305308635/

I don't know what Wallaby sells.

Oh. Not on their website? Do you know what Morningside, Ridgely, Kitty Hawk, Quest, Florida Ridge, Cloud 9, Cowboy Up sell? Oh well, maybe we can get a review from the alleged coauthor of the excellent book, Towing Aloft, by Dennis Pagen and Bill Bryden...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/4049
Towing errata

Bill Bryden - 2004/04/01 16:20:18 UTC

Some aerotow releases, including a few models from prominent schools, have had problems releasing under high tensions. You must VERIFY through tests that a release will work for the tensions that could possibly be encountered. You better figure at least three hundred pounds to be modestly confident.

Maybe eight to ten years ago I got several comments from people saying a popular aerotow release (with a bicycle type brake lever) would fail to release at higher tensions. I called and talked to the producer sharing the people's experiences and concerns. I inquired to what tension their releases were tested but he refused to say, just aggressively stated they never had any problems with their releases, they were fine, goodbye, click. Another person tested one and found it started getting really hard to actuate in the range of only eighty to a hundred pounds as I vaguely recall. I noticed they did modify their design but I don't know if they ever really did any engineering tests on it. You should test the release yourself or have someone you trust do it. There is only one aerotow release manufacturer whose product I'd have reasonable confidence in without verifying it myself, the Wallaby release is not it.

Despite what the alleged coauthor and author of the excellent book, Towing Aloft, by Dennis Pagen and Bill Bryden endorse and advertise in their excellent book.

Photoshop.

Lockout Mountain Flight Park New And Improved Aerotow Release 1.0:
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1558/25912821781_ced007a9d6_o.jpg


Triple the canvas width.

Lockout Mountain Flight Park New And Improved Aerotow Release 2.0:
http://www.blueskyhg.com/products/accessories/ATprimary2.jpg


Use the 2.0's full res flavor from the URL.

Grab a rectangle containing the 2.0 top end mechanism.

Flip it horizontally.

Rotate it 47 degrees counterclockwise.

Copy it and layer it over 1.0.

Reduce the 2.0 layer opacity to half.

Slide the 2.0 layer around until, disregarding the forward extensions, it perfectly eclipses 1.0.

Take the 2.0 opacity back up to a hundred percent.

Blank out the 2.0 layer and marquee a rectangle to measure the length of the 1.0 forward extension from the tip back to the point at which the cutout ends.

Do likewise to measure the 2.0 forward extension.

Those motherfuckers have increased that extension by a factor of 2.194. AND they've replaced the loop pull with a bicycle brake lever to quadruple THAT mechanical advantage.

And have they put an advisory out for all their 1.0 victims?

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3035
Tad's Barrel Release and maybe an alternative

JD Guillemette - 2008/02/22 17:11:47 UTC

Looks like Tad has been busy in his work shop doing some test to discredit the Bailey release. We might have done a public service keeping him occupied in his work shop and out of public.

Come on Tad lets get reasonable, for the tow forces involved, the curved pin is fine. You had to put 220 lbs of force to get the curved pin to bend/fail. For a "Pro-Tow" configuration (shoulder tow) that would mean 220 lbs of force on each shoulder, so that's 440 lbs on the tow line. For a solo tow ... I doubt it.

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2871
speed link

JD Guillemette - 2008/02/07 12:51:57 UTC

For these same reasons, It just bothers me when people try to "improve" upon Bobby Bailey's designs ... simply put, the designs are at the maximum of efficiency and safety. So I'm right back to where I was. I see no problem in the way things are currently done and creating overly complicated mouth actuated releases is just a waste of time.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14903
New Lookout Release--preliminary test

JD Guillemette - 2009/02/13 03:24:15 UTC

Sweeeet!!!! Looks good to me.
I like the bent gate bar, as Marc suggested that should make release force many times less than tow force, if not nearly independant of tow line force.
Nicely done Lookout! Elegant solution!
As in most cases, the simplest designs work best.

JD Guillemette - 2009/02/13 21:21:38 UTC

That didn't take long ... Tad is already criticizing a device he has never used, never tested, doesn't understand, and only seen a few photos, in favor of his Rube Goldberg contraptions.

Suck my dick - you miserable little u$hPa establishment brown noser.

Davis Straub - 2009/02/13 21:40:59 UTC

I have moved some of Tad's material to another thread. Tad is asked nicely not to hijack this thread. I will enforce that request.

And you should certainly know by now what you can do, Davis.

There was apparently an incident at Highland on or around November 8th.

A lockout occurred around 400' followed by a low level chute deployment & minor injuries.
It appears she could not get to her release in time.
Details are not available.

Oh shit! I've got my release actuator velcro mounted way the fuck over there within easy reach on my starboard control tube, and I am locked out at 400' to the right with my body countering to the left.
What do I do now since my best case scenario plan didn't work out so good?

Count that one as a kill.

There was apparently an incident at Highland on or around November 8th.

There was definitely an incident at Highland on or close to 2008/06/02...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3648
Oh no! more on weak links

Carlos Weill - 2008/11/30 19:24:09 UTC

On June of 2008 during a fast tow, I noticed I was getting out of alignment, but I was able to come back to it. The second time it happen I saw the tug line 45 deg off to the left and was not able to align the glider again I tried to release but my body was off centered and could not reach the release. I kept trying and was close to 90 deg. All these happen very quickly, as anyone that has experienced a lock out would tell you. I heard a snap, and then just like the sound of a WWII plane just shut down hurdling to the ground, only the ball of fire was missing. The tug weak link broke off at 1000ft, in less than a second the glider was at 500ft. At that point I realized I had the rope, so I drop it in the parking lot.

...that we only HAPPENED to hear about five months minus two days after the fact - and a dozen days before the beginning of my "three month" "suspension".

A lockout occurred around 400' followed by a low level chute deployment...

- Must've been using one of those Tad-O-Links that don't break when they're supposed to. (Course Carlos's Rooney Link didn't break when it was supposed to even worse - not even before the tug's tow mast breakaway protector.)

- A Rooney Link is precisely calibrated to limit altitude loss to a reasonable...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Marc Fink - 2011/08/28 21:11:09 UTC

I once locked out on an early laminarST aerotowing. went past vertical and past 45 degrees to the line of pull-- and the load forces were increasing dramatically. The weaklink blew and the glider stalled--needed every bit of the 250 ft agl to speed up and pull out. I'm alive because I didn't use a stronger one.

...250 feet.

- Funny, I thought the tug driver could...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 13:47:23 UTC

Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.

...fix whatever's going on back there by giving the glider the rope. But hey, that was only four hundred feet...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=9084
Aerotow problem/question:Properly washed, I think

Jim Gaar - 2008/10/28 15:55:22 UTC

We always told towed pilots that the first 500 feet belonged to the tug pilot. They have enough to do to keep themselves safe.

Jim Rooney - 2008/12/11 18:45:01 UTC

Yup, the first 500ft are mine. Try to keep up. Your tugger generally REALLY wants to help you, and will do all that he can to do so, but he's got trees to stay out of as well.

Tugger was probably struggling to stay out of those 450 trees they have off the ends of the runway at Ridgely. I sure am happy he didn't sustain any minor injuries.

It appears she could not get to her release in time.

- Hard to understand why she didn't just...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14230
pro tow set-up

Ryan Voight - 2009/11/03 05:24:31 UTC

It works best in a lockout situation... if you're banked away from the tug and have the bar back by your belly button... let it out. Glider will pitch up, break weaklink, and you fly away.

During a "normal" tow you could always turn away from the tug and push out to break the weaklink... but why would you?

Have you never pondered what you would do in a situation where you CAN'T LET GO to release? I'd purposefully break the weaklink, as described above. Instant hands free release

Jim Rooney - 2009/11/03 06:16:56 UTC

God I love the ignore list

Tad loves to have things both ways.
First weaklinks are too weak, so we MUST use stronger ones. Not doing so is reckless and dangerous.
Then they're too strong.

I have no time for such circular logic.
I had it with that crap years ago.

As for being in a situation where you can't or don't want to let go, Ryan's got the right idea. They're called "weak" links for a reason. Overload that puppy and you bet your ass it's going to break.

You can tell me till you're blue in the face about situations where it theoretically won't let go or you can drone on and on about how "weaklinks only protect the glider" (which is BS btw)... and I can tell ya... I could give a crap, cuz just pitch out abruptly and that little piece of string doesn't have a chance in hell. Take your theory and shove it... I'm saving my a$$.

...pitch out abruptly and save her ass.

- What about her backup release and hook knife? She couldn't get to either of those in time either?

- Interesting that she couldn't get to her easily reachable release in time but she COULD get to her parachute and get it out and deployed in time. (Taking notes on this one, Kelly?)

...& minor injuries.

MINOR injuries? We couldn't get anything better for some bitch who experiences this and doesn't breathe a word of an incident report or advisory? (Guess she wants the privilege of continuing to fly Ridgely.) This is why we need more people killed. Makes it much harder to totally sweep things under the rug.

Details are not available.

Did the aircraft appear to be for recreational purposes?

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14312
Tow Park accidents

Jack Axaopoulos - 2009/11/12 14:49:58 UTC

One of the stated goals of this site is to promote HG. MOST views on this site are NOT from members but from visitors, they have no ignore button.

Having Tad run around every day giving the impression that there is a massive weekly slaughter of pilots at tow parks due to their horribly dangerous devices surely doesnt promote HG. Especially when the safety records are quite excellent.

Like Jim said, theyve gone a decade with no fatalities at their tow park. Pretty damn good I say.

Yet listening to Tad, you would think guys were dying all over the place
He's been nothing but misleading and negative and ignored multiple warnings from me. So He's GONE

That's two fatals those motherfuckers have had over there in a span of a bit over four and a half months - one for the purpose of the exercise the other game over. (Damn. Steve got in ahead of me on that one.) And this is just the stuff they can't contain.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 10:40:24 UTC

Hi Tormod.
Oh, not at all.
I think what you're picking up on is my lack of willingness to discuss this with people that have already made up their minds.
Sorry for that, but it's just the nature of the beast.

I have no issue with discussing this with people that don't have an agenda.
I get very short with people that do however.

Am I "certain" about anything?
Nope.
However, some things get real obvious when you're doing them all the time. One is that weaklinks do in fact save people's asses.

What's real obvious here, cocksucker, is that the only thing that saved this bitch's ass was her own ability to get a parachute out in time. Just like at...

165-20800
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8618/16487364408_92dcfd61fb_o.png


...a certain other notoriously shoddy tow operation using state-of-the-art equipment. Nothing else you assholes incessantly drone on about was worth shit.

P.S. Draw 170 mile radius circle with the Washington Monument as the centerpoint. That leaves Hyner just outside. I think this is the first save from a parachute in the history of hang gliding outside of blown aerobatics. And I know of at least one inadvertent deployment inside the circle that increased the safety of that free flight operation about as much as a weak link break increases the safety of a towing operation.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31997
Rotor stall and 360 behind island.

Michael Farren (waveview) - 2014/10/27 00:06:25 UTC
South Bunbury

Flew six miles north along the coastal cliffs at Yallingup to a small rock island on Saturday 25 October. Good height going past the island the first time but on return leg of the flight I had much less altitude to work with. Was adjusting my helmet with only one hand on the base tube as I flew back past the island. The resulting stall from the rotor turbulence and lapse in concentration had me diving into a very low level 360 degree turn back at the ridge and almost onto some gnarly looking rocks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbWy5_0w7RA

Oh. So you're saying there's some advantage to having TWO hands on the basetube when you're dangerously low and turbulence is blowing you off heading. I didn't think it really mattered that much. Hell, you were only off grip for 0.8 seconds.

So why did you go right back to the basetube? Wouldn't you have had better roll authority going to the control tubes?

Craig Pirazzi - 2014/10/27 01:56:36 UTC

Beautiful place.

Might be a good idea to stay away from beautiful places, Craig. Or at least think about how thinly you wanna cut your safety margins if you don't.

Whats with the glider crashing in to the hill at 1:30 ?

Tad-O-Link. If you use a proper weak link the glider won't lock out like that.

Michael Farren - 2014/10/27 02:24:21 UTC

He caught a tip on a tall piece of bush just after takeoff and followed it quickly after by the ground loop you see on the video. Pilot not injured, bent down tube. He was flying again that afternoon. An alternate, steeper, launch in front of the surfing lookout platform may have been a better choice in the slightly "off to the north" wind direction.

But either way, much safer than tow launching. None of that dangerous complexity.

Michael Farren - 2014/10/27 02:39:22 UTC

That 360 was way too close to those rocks, even for a thrill factor. Notice the size of my glider shadow on the rocks as it comes back round into wind

Nic Welbourn - 2014/10/27 03:06:20 UTC

Well done! Good thing you didn't pull in too much to regain speed - good recovery and way to not lose your cool.

- Yeah, we've had so many tragic outcomes lately due to the losing of cool.
- Wouldn't the safer and cooler option have been for him to climb up in the control frame to prepare for using his glider as a crush zone?

Michael Farren - 2014/10/27 23:27:59 UTC

Wind speed from the west was about 15 miles per hour. I was running back past the island with a slight (tail) or following breeze. Normally fly the wing close to best LD or minimum sink in these slight tail conditions along a ridge with altitude. More air speed would have been a better choice passing the island.