Two Dead on Hang Glider
Nothing anybody but you gives a flying fuck about, Scott.Scott C. Wise - 2015/04/18 19:44:33 UTC
"A)" would be the closest connection to your question.
I'll take your word for it that operating a business without a permit is a misdemeanor. A misdemeanor happens to be a criminal act. If a person is killed in the course of some person committing another crime, . . . well Billy, I'll let you look up what that person would be guilty of.
Do ya ever bother reading...Given the brief nature of the info I gave it could seem as if my assumptions were unwarranted. However, there's a OZ Report Front Page story/link to a News Report about the incident at Jean Dry Lake. That news report (which someone who tries to stay informed has read)...
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=12403
weak link table
...Kite Strings?ian9toes - 2009/06/14 15:18:37 UTC
I strongly disagree with banning the one guy who has the most knowledge about safety issues involving what I believe is the most dangerous part of our sport. I hear someone dies every year from towing. I hope SG bites his tongue in the interest of public safety.
Total fucking lunacy. If Michelle - Arys' mom - had gotten drunk enough at lunch to be attracting the attention of the cops on the drive down to Jean there's no fuckin' way her kid would've been scratched. POSSIBLY somebody else's kid but not bloody likely. It takes hundreds of thousands of cycles before things line up right enough for one of these to happen and if you could hop on the TARDIS and just jiggle preceding events a tiny bit you wouldn't have the requisite Perfect Storm....includes the following information:So, it seems clear that a "simple" permit MAY have been all that was necessary. But it is also quite or very likely that A LOT more requirements needed to be met. Could be that J K Harrison would not have been able to meet those requirements. Or maybe he would have been delayed in starting his tow for pay business 1, 2, 3 weeks or even a month or two.RICARDO TORRES, LAS VEGAS REVIEW-JOURNAL:
. . . Special recreation permits are required for commercial use on federal land, according to the BLM.
"This company did not have one," BLM spokeswoman Kirsten Cannon said Tuesday.
Applicants for permits must supply operation plans and maps, Cannon said. If the land falls in more than one federal jurisdiction, applicants must apply to multiple agencies.
Depending on the activity, applicants are required to meet with a BLM outdoor planner, Cannon said. Some permits also require licensing or insurance.
Las Vegas Hang Gliding was not licensed in Las Vegas or Clark County, records show.
Harrison's company was registered as a Nevada limited liability company LLC in January, according to secretary of state's office. . .
Also, Billy, have you ever heard of the "Butterfly Effect"? If not you can look that up too. What it means, quickly, is that a small change in events can cause BIG differences somewhere else. Example - If J K Harrison had been delayed a month in getting his paperwork/insurance/licensing and meeting with the BLM outdoor planner taken care of (in a responsible manner) then an 11 year old boy - and Harrison himself - would very likely be alive today. And it could also be that nothing would have changed. We'll never know because we can't go back and "fix" the past.
Something went wrong with the driver and/or the immediate environment that caused him to believe that the glider was off tow and respond as he did. Advance or delay the start ten seconds and it probably wouldn't happen.
If Zack Marzec hadn't hit that monster thermal in a window that may have been less than ten seconds wide we'd still be listening to Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney telling all us muppets how well he had things sussed out and what clueless assholes we all are. But he hit it JUST RIGHT so no more imaginary clothes on that emperor.
But for every instance you jiggle things and prevent a double fatal statistically there will a corresponding instance in which your jiggling sets up a double fatal. And if you weren't stark raving mad that would be fuckin' obvious to you.
Could've fooled me.But my posts are not about going back in time and fixing things.
Bullshit. If you were capable of learning from the past you'd have learned it already.They are about learning from the past with the idea of keeping a few more people alive.
If people in hang gliding were simply ignorant then how you explain a couple of decades worth of the standard aerotow weak link?Billy, I'm SURE you have no problems with that idea. But let us know if you do.I think the biggest problems in the world involve ignorance. Since most people can learn, then they can also stop being ignorant.So Please stop ; I am NOT stupid . . .
Oh good. A breakthrough conversation between Scott C. Wise and Bille Floyd.When that happens things improve and sometimes lives are even saved. Billy, I give you enough credit to think you want to learn how to make things better - and to promote the saving of lives. You've even told your personal story so that other pilots might not make the same mistake(s). I know you want to make things better and a bit safer if possible. Good Job in what you've done so far! In a way, I am following in your foot steps. Okay?
What do you think the "tow mechanics" were, Scott? It was reported across the board without contradiction that the glider wasn't RELEASED from the "tether" - and we have photographic PROOF:Scott C. Wise - 2015/04/18 20:21:35 UTC
Martin,
Take a look at my above post - it may make some things clearer to you. I'm not on any "high horse". I've been just where J K Harrison was, even if the situations were a bit different. I speak from experience - on the SAME level as Harrison was looking out from.
As to -It was the first miss-step down a path that led to two people dieing. Should we turn a blind eye to that First mistake? Then maybe the second mistake, and maybe the 3rd . . . ? You should read my post above.Do you really think it is truly relevant to the loss of life? . . .
As to many if not most of your other comments - I AGREE. Many things combined to cause these two fatalities. The video taken during the flight would be a VERY important bit of information for learning what went wrong aerodynamically - or in relation to the tow mechanics, if they were at fault.
KSNV-CNN-1-1916
http://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5788/23461251751_e98b9c7500_o.png
on top of that. So... Think there's any possibility the RELEASE might have been an issue? Just kidding.
No need to see. We know the glider needed to be released and couldn't be. Industry Standard.A human factor may also be revealed in the video tape.
But that tape has been seen by the police and I'm sure by the USHPA "investigators" who've gotten involved. But I would bet $ a certain way regarding whether we will ever see that recording. No see, No Learn.
But as far as the USHPA legal team is concerned - No See, No Get Sued.
Finally -
About signing my name. I believe in the right to privacy. My personal identity is not up for public view on the internet. But, I'll tell you what! If you PM me your social security number and credit card number (with security code) I'll PM you back with a little of MY personal info. Deal? (don't take it!)
Here's an alternative - Imagine that I am not a human person but a Corporate person. Imagine that posts presented by "spec_out_hi" are the result of one or more committee meetings. I hope that helps quell your curiosity.
Steve Forslund - 2015/04/18 21:38:53 UTC
I just imagine you are a troll with no backbone
Davis Straub - 2015/04/18 21:44:29 UTC
Enough
And with 87 previous posts and well over five thousand hits Davis decides that people aren't gonna be discussing this one anymore either. Right in line with:
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=32681
Tandem crash in LV (speculation thread)
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41697Mark G. Forbes - 2015/03/30 23:29:59 UTC
Hi folks,
I understand the interest in learning the cause of this, but could we please not speculate on the forum? We have a very experienced tow administrator (Mitch Shipley) headed to Las Vegas to do an accident investigation, and when we learn what really happened we'll convey that information to our members. He'll be working with two of the local instructors there to get to the truth.
Meanwhile, please refrain from offering speculation or opinion on what might have happened, what might have been theoretically done to prevent it and so on. Emotions are raw, people are hurting, and uninformed speculation doesn't help anybody. News reports are of little use since they're written by people who have no idea how our sport works or what is typical.
Thanks for your understanding and patience.
Two Dead on Hang Glider
Steve Forslund - 2015/04/18 21:38:53 UTC
I just imagine you are a troll with no backbone
http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=592Davis Straub - 2015/04/18 21:44:29 UTC
Enough
Linknife
Butch Pritchett - 2010/04/02 23:21:11 UTC
Tad that turd is getting back in the punch bowl.
Tad Eareckson - 2010/04/02 23:23:44 UTC
Fuck you.
See the pattern?Davis Straub - 2010/04/03 12:46:26 UTC
Tad is gone.
