Kite Strings

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31041
Genuinely advanced pilot

Tom Galvin - 2014/04/05 23:26:56 UTC

I spoke with John Heiney, just before I moved to Colorado. He told me of another pilot he knew of average skills that moved to Colorado and became a top notch pilot.

Able to do WHAT that he couldn't before?

He said that once he moved, he flew all the time.

GREAT! That way he didn't hafta worry about crap like discussions on fatal crashes and the equipment and procedures that would've prevented them, family, Syria, elephant poaching, global warming, mass extinction...

Alas I have not. This year I am working to change that.

I'm sure you are.

Nothing can replace repetition of launching, landing, and flying.

Bullshit.

- Sometimes the Hang Two who lifts his glider a few inches a couple of seconds before launch is gonna finish the day in a lot better shape than somebody with a hundred times his airtime who confirms that he's hooked in at the back of the ramp.

- Launching and landing are the two most dangerous phases of flight. If you go nuts with repetitions of the two most dangerous phases of flight guess what happens to your likelihood of getting seriously fucked up.

Fred Wilson - 2014/04/06 00:35:11 UTC

The best is someone who has signed on with the USHPA via their local club to be a Mentor.

Well obviously. If someone who has signed on with the USHPA via their local club to be a Mentor then he's gonna be the best.

http://www.ushpa.aero/faq_mentors.asp
http://www.ushpa.aero/info_mentors.asp

Especially if he's got one of those little red rubber "Focused Pilot" wristbands.

With luck you will have several in your area.

And, since they're the best, they'll all be on the same page about everything.

There are lots of good pilots ready and willing to provide help and advice.

And the best of the best...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22660
What can be learned from this "scooter" towing accident?

Mitch Shipley - 2011/01/31 15:22:59 UTC

Enjoy your posts, as always, and find your comments solid, based on hundreds of hours / tows of experience and backed up by a keen intellect/knowledge of the issues when it comes to most things in general and hang gliding AT/Towing in particular. Wanted to go on record in case anyone reading wanted to know one persons comments they should give weight to.

...are ready to...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question

Jim Rooney - 2008/11/24 05:18:15 UTC

Well, I'm assuming there was some guff about the tug pilot's right of refusal?
Gee, didn't think we'd have to delve into "pilot in command"... I figured that one's pretty well understood in a flying community.

It's quite simple.
The tug is a certified aircraft... the glider is an unpowered ultralight vehicle. The tug pilot is the pilot in command. You are a passenger. You have the same rights and responsibilities as a skydiver.
It's a bitter pill I'm sure, but there you have it.

...declare themselves Pilot In Command of your aircraft and dictate what equipment you can and can't use.

But this lot have made it official that this is something they like to do and want to do, and the club agrees they are good at it.

Hard to go wrong with a deal like that.

2014/04/06 20:46:28 UTC - 3 thumbs up - atag

Craig Pirazzi - 2014/04/06 17:00:07 UTC
Telluride

The Best pilots are those who's awareness and decision making skills are in the moment,and so remain flexible, able to adjust at an instant and have access to the most options and skills available to safely fly in an ever changing environment.

Nah. The BEST pilots are the ones who stay...

http://www.ushpa.aero/media/FOCUSED_LOGO_COLOR2.jpg


...FOCUSED. Like check to make sure you're connected to your glider...

http://www.ushawks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=802
AL's Second flight at Packsaddle how it went

Rick Masters - 2011/10/19 22:47:17 UTC

At that moment, I would banish all concern about launching unhooked. I had taken care of it. It was done. It was out of my mind.

...then move on to the next step. FOCUS on getting a good, strong, fast run off that ramp. Then FOCUS on thermalling for a while, then FOCUS on that Frisbee in the middle of the LZ. And when you get there...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27086
Steve Pearson on landings

Steve Pearson - 2012/03/28 23:26:05 UTC

I can't control the glider in strong air with my hands at shoulder or ear height and I'd rather land on my belly with my hands on the basetube than get turned downwind.

...FOCUS on your flare timing and bringing the glider to a dead stop on your feet.

So CP...

- Would someone who loads up his sidewires at the end of his preflight routine perhaps give him more options than someone who doesn't load up his sidewires...

http://ozreport.com/forum/files/having_a_bad_day_178.jpg


...until after he leaves the ramp?

- Would someone who loads his suspension system a little at the business end of the ramp a couple seconds prior to the moment he's thinking about running off...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9G8ERElpjM

13-03110
http://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3697/13700915564_87a2a336b0_o.png


http://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2912/13700562685_86575e9220_o.png
14-03129

...be likely to be considering more options than the people who always do hang checks at the back of the ramp...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL00UefQqZA

2-005


...a couple minutes ago and...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c87vgq5ZFU0

11-A12819
http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8339/28924980016_2ba1d20ef7_o.png


http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8253/28924975726_0d24a615c2_o.png
13-A14319

...always treat the harness as part of the aircraft, attach it to the wing completing the aircraft, preflight the completed aircraft, then buckle themselves into the cockpit?

- Doesn't the person who does a fast turn onto final below and inside and scraping the treeline...

05-2704c
http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1525/26167489042_9f5e5af537_o.png


...have the options of almost twice as many halves of the runway as the moron who does a long straight final with lotsa clearance over the treeline adjusting his glide for the Frisbee in the middle of the field?

- Doesn't the person who has a reasonable pair of wheels on his basetube have more and much better options for bringing his glider to a safe stop...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2Gd2kcyOes

1-2717
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7094/13952342741_f71f343877_o.png


http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7151/13952329131_03e535bc8b_o.png
6-4518

...than the person who...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46pvhPUM5-Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaTu5Y4WBdY

18-3704


...doesn't?

- Doesn't the person who has a basetube mounted release actuator...

http://vimeo.com/38334812

password - red
03-1304
http://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2938/13700558193_0e0946218e_o.png


...have both the options of keeping both hands on the basetube or removing one and flailing at a point a foot up the starboard downtube during a lockout while the person with the Quallaby Release...?

- Doesn't the person with the 500 pound weak link have the option of staying on tow over twice the tension range that the person with the 250 pound weak link has?

- Doesn't the person who uses an aerotow bridle attachment point on his keel have the option of using...

http://westcoastbrit.blogspot.com/2013/05/a-couple-of-weeks-ago-i-had-experience.html


...two thirds more of his glider's pitch control range than the pro toad does?

- Doesn't the person who launches with a release actuator in his teeth...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh3-uZptNw0


...have more and infinitely better options for blowing tow in an emergency than the total asshole...

07-300

11-311

15-413


http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident2.jpg
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident3.jpg


http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1143
Death at Tocumwal

Davis Straub - 2006/01/24 12:27:32 UTC

I'm willing to put the barrel release within a few inches of my hand.

...who's willing to put a barrel "release" within a few inches of his hand?

Name some Jack and Davis Show assholes and USHGA Instructors, Observers, Mentors who are on board with a fair chunk of these strategies.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31041
Genuinely advanced pilot

Nic Welbourn - 2014/04/06 23:53:23 UTC
Canberra

Welcome to the ORG (despite the bizarre negative introduction)!

I aim to always be a student.

Great. What are you gonna be learning that's gonna be of any practical use in flying these things? What have you learned that fits the category in the past year?

- Did you learn what a weak link is and isn't and what the consequences can be when you dumb it down to try to get it to do the job of an emergency release? Did you tell any of your less academically motivated peers that Bill Moyes, Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey, Davis, Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney, Malcolm Jones, Matt Taber, Dennis Pagen are totally full of shit on this issue?

- When's the best time to start assuming you're hooked in? Seven years ago 'cause you never get into your harness unless it's connected to a glider?

- What's the best:
-- color webbing to use for a bent pin barrel release?
-- length for a pro toad bridle - four or five feet?

Fuck this "always a student" crap. This sport ain't all that complicated. Talking about always being a hang gliding student is pretty much the same thing as talking about always being a fourth grade elementary school student. If all these assholes who talk incessantly about always being students were capable of being students they'd all be on the same pages with each other and reality and the sport wouldn't have any problems.

I aim to spend my life perfecting launch and landing.

- You do that. Let us all know when you can top what we're seeing here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WsvXEuZWeo

04-01503

09-12911

12-13005

13-13015

14-31323

15-31719


- Saying that you aim to spend (waste) your life "PEREFCTING" launch and landing is another way of saying that it's impossible to perfect them.
-- If it's not possible to perfect them then either it's never safe to fly or perfecting launch and landing isn't an issue of any particular worth.
-- Name some people who've been fucked up because their launches or landings weren't "PERFECT".

I hope to fly as long as my legs can run.

Yeah, legs and running are what this sport is all about.

I acknowledge that complacency is our #1 enemy.

Doesn't hold a candle to shit like corruption, incompetence, stupidity.

If you think you're an 'advanced intermediate' after 150hrs, well, I hope the next 200hrs goes OK.

USHGA currently requires 10 hours for Intermediate (five times what it did when I got mine in '82) and 75 for Advanced ratings. If there's something inherently wrong with a 150 hours guy considering himself an advanced intermediate then there's something massively wrong with our rating system.

Guess it all depends on how you define 'the very best'.

As long as...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=12403
weak link table

ian9toes - 2009/06/14 15:18:37 UTC
Gold Coast, Queensland

I strongly disagree with banning the one guy who has the most knowledge about safety issues involving what I believe is the most dangerous part of our sport. I hear someone dies every year from towing. I hope SG bites his tongue in the interest of public safety.

http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/HG_ORG_Mission_Statement
HG ORG Mission Statement - Hang Gliding Wiki

HangGliding.Org Rules and Policies

No posts or links about Bob K, Scott C Wise, Tad Eareckson and related people, or their material. ALL SUCH POSTS WILL BE IMMEDIATELY DELETED. These people are poison to this sport and are permanently banned from this site in every possible way imaginable.

...T** at K*** S****** isn't included in the running what's it really matter?

For mine, an advance pilot needs good skills and the right attitude...

Anything about equipment, competency, understanding of theory? Just kidding.

...a good pilot asks for feedback, especially when they think they don't need it...

A good pilot needs the same understanding of logic that's required for understanding grade school level fundamentals of grammar. And he's already reached a point at which he doesn't need a bunch of bozos to tell him how well or poorly he executed a particular task.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31041
Genuinely advanced pilot

DrBill - 2014/04/07 03:24:48 UTC

Having spent the previous weeks reading older posts and seeing some of the utter guff and pathetic childish behaviour exhibited by SOME on here. Intermixed with some really good positive contributions.

- Neither of those sentences is a sentence.
- Any chance you could be a little more specific?

Maybe you can see why I introduced myself in the way I did.

Nah. You'd still hafta be an asshole.

Admittedly it was rather negative and for that I apologise.

You need to apologize for a negative take on something?

Thanks to those who replied with some positive input, I appreciate you taking the time.
As for SOME of the others, maybe get out of the house once in a while and go make some friends, real human ones.

- There are SO few people in hang gliding I'd wanna consider having as friends.
- Fuck friends. Zack Marzec had tons of them. They got him killed and did as much damage to the sport as they could after they got him killed.

This sure is a forum of very mixed personalities.

And rather uniform low to mediocre IQs.

We are so lucky to be able to fly, and share it with friends.

I wouldn't know.

It has been a long winter.

Dudley Mead - 2014/04/07 13:26:03 UTC
Dayton

Just some random thoughts about what it takes to be a genuinely advanced pilot...

1. Flying (any aircraft) is 10% skill and 90% judgement. Your higher skill levels will be attained long before you have acquired enough judgement to use those skills in all situations.

How does Zack Marzec fit into that arithmetic? Name some other aircraft that use anything comparable to the total crap used for towing hang gliders.

Equipment can and often does trump/negate all other issues in the equation. The tandem "passenger" in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwbPK7sCCtk

04-0301


06-0521

who became Pilot In Command right around the time the glider left the ground landed pretty well and came out smelling like a rose. Compare/Contrast with the pro toad who, on the last evening of his life, posted this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i4owd0akd0


had predetermined a loop of 130 pound fishing line would be his Pilot In Command in a potentially dangerous situation.

Who's in better shape? Surprise Pilot In Command or:



Hang Four Tandem Instructor Ben Dunn?

It is fascinating to me that so many pilots today are moving up to really advanced wings with so little experience.

Big fuckin' deal.

Egos and the sex appeal of topless wings are luring pilots toward wings that, in years past, would have been suitable only for pilots with years of experience.

- Bullshit.
- Experience in aviation isn't measured it years. It's measured in hours. And if a glider manufacturer recommends as Hang Four rating for a particular glider that means he's saying that a 75 hour pilot can be perfectly good to go.

A lot of really experienced pilots are moving back to the U2 / Sport type gliders for lower stress / higher enjoyment flying.

Is that because they're getting into scary situations because of the performance or that the handling requires more muscle and makes things less enjoyable?

2. Immerse yourself into the sport. It's OK to be a hack at golf but it is definitely NOT OK to be one while hang gliding.

Everybody's a hack at hang gliding when he starts out. That's why God gave us easy launches, light conditions, and big flat fields. Plenty of people remain hacks and can get enjoyment out of the sport with such limitations.

Read everything you can about the sport.

Can't go wrong with that. Especially Pagen, official USHGA publications and advisories, glider owners' manuals, flight park websites, accident reports, and opinions on well moderated glider forums like the Jack and Davis Shows.

Ask LOTS of questions - even the most advanced pilots will solicit information from locals.

And always trust the answers you get from locals because they're locals. They'll be able to tell you where you should do your hang check, the best approach for nailing the Frisbee in the middle of the LZ, and what weak link they decided they were happy with.

To become an old lifelong hang gliding pilot, you have to live and breath the sport until it becomes a part of your DNA.

And that guarantees that you're gonna be able to become an old lifelong hang gliding pilot.

3. Strive for perfection. In his book "Gift of Wings", Richard Bach wrote a story about a "school for perfection" where outlaw instructors push students to strive for the highest possible standards of airmanship on each and every flight.

How's ol' Richard doing? Last I heard he got pretty smashed up when he crashed his plane.

Don't ever settle for an OK takeoff, turn, or landing.

Take off and land on wheels and you WILL have a lot more perfect takeoffs and landings.

Critically evaluate yourself on every flight, admitting weak areas, and strengthen them on the next one.

Is he NOT gonna do this without someone telling him to?

4. You don't have to fly every day.

Like Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney and Ryan Instant-Hands-Free-Release Voight.

You should want to fly every day, but the first time you decide to breakdown a glider on launch because you feel something isn't right, the easier it will become the next time and the longer you will live.

Yeah, you should break down on top because you FEEL something isn't right - not because it's blown out, too cross, about to be blasted by a gust front...

There will (should) be a period when you are starved for every minute of flight time you can possibly scrounge up. That's good, but look for the opportunity to turn down a day of flying when the stars are not all lined up the way you want. It goes back to that judgement thing.

Is it EVER safe to tow behind a Dragonfly?

5. Teach hang gliding. Get the instructor rating and work for a HG school for a season.

Why stop at ONE? The learning journey just goes on and on and on when you're teaching at a hang gliding school. Just look at the brilliance of all the people who've taught hang gliding for a decade or more and all the innovations which have come from them.

There is no better way to learn than to teach.

Depends a lot on what you're teaching and what your students are learning.

You'll be amazed at how strong your takeoffs will be after a season of trying to teach them.

By which you mean foot launches. There's not one single word in your post which recognizes or addresses anything going on with anything to do with towing - which is a bit weird given that you live in Dayton.

6. Work comps / fly comps. Volunteer to work at a competition.

You can be a launch marshal...

http://ozreport.com/rules.php
2014 Big Spring Nationals Rules

2014 Big Spring Nationals at Big Spring, Texas

2.0 EQUIPMENT

Appropriate aerotow bridles

Competitors must use appropriate aerotow bridles as determined by the Meet Director and Safety Director and their designated officials. Bridles must include secondary releases (as determined by the Safety Director). Bridles must be able to be connected to the tow line within two seconds. The only appropriate bridles can be found here:
http://OzReport.com/9.039#0

and:
http://ozreport.com/9.041#2



Pilots who have not already had their bridles inspected during the practice days must bring their bridles to the mandatory pilot safety briefing and have them reviewed. Pilots with inappropriate bridles may purchase appropriate bridles from the meet organizer.

Weaklinks

Pilots must use weaklinks provided by the meet organizers and in a manner approved by the meet organizers. All weaklinks will be checked and use of inappropriate weaklinks will require the pilot to go to the end of the launch line to change the weaklink.

Weaklinks should be placed at one end of a shoulder bridle. The tow forces on the weaklink will be roughly divided in half by this placement. Pilots will be shown how to tie the weaklink so that it more likely breaks at its rating breaking strength.

...and make sure nobody gets into the air with anything other than a bent pin pro toad release and Davis Link.

Drive for advanced pilots and listen to their thoughts.

Yeah, it's not like the best stuff could all be assembled in an internationally recognized, endorsed, respected text book that holds up to reality and matches the stuff they have in REAL aviation.

Watch their routines (both good and bad) and learn from them. Then go fly comps yourself with the goal of finishing safely and having fun. Skills, judgement, and enjoyment will grow exponentially doing so.

Just look at Davis. How could you possibly go wrong?

and I'm sure there's more ...

And less.

2014/04/07 13:53:08 UTC - 3 thumbs up - NMERider
2014/04/07 18:51:46 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Dan Armstrong
2014/04/08 00:24:07 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Paul Hurless
2014/04/08 02:30:57 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Lafe Williams
2014/04/08 16:38:16 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Rob McKenzie
2014/04/10 02:31:48 UTC - 3 thumbs up - davin

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31041
Genuinely advanced pilot

Andy Long - 2014/04/08 00:17:23 UTC
California

DrBill - 2014/04/05 13:29:42 UTC

I am genuinely wanting to know what makes the difference between an average pilot and the very best.

Surviving your first 500 hours of airtime. By flying in such a way and having a mental perspective that leaves large enough margins for error.
Because by then you finally may have an appreciation for just how frickin dangerous hang gliding is.

Whoa!

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14312
Tow Park accidents

Jack Axaopoulos - 2009/11/12 14:49:58 UTC

One of the stated goals of this site is to promote HG. MOST views on this site are NOT from members but from visitors, they have no ignore button.

Having Tad run around every day giving the impression that there is a massive weekly slaughter of pilots at tow parks due to their horribly dangerous devices surely doesnt promote HG. Especially when the safety records are quite excellent.

Like Jim said, theyve gone a decade with no fatalities at their tow park. Pretty damn good I say.

Yet listening to Tad, you would think guys were dying all over the place
He's been nothing but misleading and negative and ignored multiple warnings from me. So He's GONE

You're not allowed to state how frickin' dangerous this sport is on a site which has a stated goal of promoting hang gliding. Do you think USHGA would still be selling the excellent book, Towing Aloft, by Dennis Pagen and Bill Bryden, if it said anything about how dangerous towing was? Get with the program, motherfucker.

- Andy (42 year, 2,000+ hour, non-armchair, grumpy old man who can't seem to get past the ACP stage)
P.S. You need practice on your introduction skills.

Of course it's a good idea. You just stated it, after all. Goes without saying.

Mike Bomstad - 2014/04/08 02:35:29 UTC

I suck, so I can't comment.
Not worthy of the expectations to comment here.

You suck, in large part, because you can't begin to conceive of any:
- way to begin to comply with anything remotely resembling USHGA's 33 year old hook-in check regulation
- problem:
-- on tow that can't be solved a single loop of 130 pound test fishing line
-- resulting from the failure of a single loop of 130 pound test fishing line that can't be easily dealt with by a genuinely advanced pilot - or anyone else

And having a brain the size of a walnut ain't doing you no good neither.

John Borton - 2014/04/08 16:08:15 UTC

A great pilot understands the physics of flight enough to realize that most pilots giving advice don't understand the physics of flight.

All *PILOTS* DO understand the physics of flight - THOROUGHLY. If they don't they're just stupid hacks who fly gliders, listen to and give opinions, teach hang gliding, write magazine articles, books, SOPs.

They can explain why the dangers of downwind turns are all in the head of the pilot...

- If the dangers of downwind turns are in the heads of pilots they're not pilots - they're total idiots.
- That ain't rocket science. That's Hang One crap.

...and yet how one can determine wind direction while thermalling without watching the ground.

Oh do tell. Maybe I'm missing something but that sounds like a load of crap - unless you're throwing GPS into the equation.

Great pilots will offer help, advice and mentor other pilots when asked, but will allow the pompous ass pilot to crash and burn if that's what pompous ass pilot decides is best for him/her.

Bullshit.

- A responsible pilot - regardless of his rating, experience, skill level, competence, expertise - will take action within the system to deal with his rating and the asshole(s) who rated him.

- However - since the system is totally corrupt and controlled by the assholes who rate other assholes... Yeah, warn 'em in no uncertain terms then let 'em crash and burn. Crashes and burns are the only hope for fixing the sport. And, even if they don't have that result they DO benefit the gene pool.

I'd have much preferred to be able to get through to Terry but he chose to take a stand with Bob and Sam. I did everything I could. So be it.

PS: And Dr. Bill, great pilots know they can post on a public forum even when you try to tell them NOT TO.

They just can't post anything...

http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/HG_ORG_Mission_Statement
HG ORG Mission Statement - Hang Gliding Wiki

HangGliding.Org Rules and Policies

No posts or links about Bob K, Scott C Wise, Tad Eareckson and related people, or their material. ALL SUCH POSTS WILL BE IMMEDIATELY DELETED. These people are poison to this sport and are permanently banned from this site in every possible way imaginable.

...about or links to Bob Kuczewski, Scott C. Wise, Tad Eareckson, and related people or their material. And they also can't...

Please treat the admin as a regular user. As long as you follow the rules, there is NO CHANCE you will banned because you disagree with the admin. The admin would like to be part of this community too without having to walk on egg shells because people think his word holds more weight for whatever reason. It does not.

...disagree with the Administrator - especially when...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=11497
Aerotow release options?
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=14312
Tow Park accidents

...they show the Administrator to be the asshole he is and always was and will be.

Paul Hurless - 2014/04/08 22:41:44 UTC

The self-realization that you are a textbook example of Intermediate Pilot Syndrome and need to work through that and realize that you are only at the beginning of the learning curve would be your first step on the way to becoming an advanced pilot.

All indications are that he's at the end of his learning curve.

Hang gliding, as in any other form of aviation, is a non-stop learning process. The moment you believe you have nothing more to learn is the moment when you become dangerous to yourself and others.

You mean like?:

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/25 04:55:25 UTC

Don't even get me started on Tad. That obnoxious blow hard has gotten himself banned from every flying site that he used to visit... he doesn't fly anymore... because he has no where to fly. His theories were annoying at best and downright dangerous most of the time. Good riddance.

So, argue all you like.
I don't care.
I've been through all these arguments a million times... this is my job.
I could be more political about it, but screw it... I'm not in the mood to put up with tender sensibilities... Some weekend warrior isn't about to inform me about jack sh*t when it comes to towing. I've got thousands upon thousands of tows under my belt. I don't know everything, but I'll wager the house that I've got it sussed a bit better than an armchair warrior.

Kinsley Sykes - 2011/08/31 11:35:36 UTC

Well actually he didn't. But if you don't want to listen to the folks that actually know what they are talking about, go ahead.
Feel free to go the the tow park that Tad runs...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

William Olive - 2013/02/27 20:55:06 UTC

Like the rest of us, you have no idea what really happened on that tow.
We probably never will know.

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/28 01:17:55 UTC

Well said Billo
I'm a bit sick of all the armchair experts telling me how my friend died.

Ah but hg'ers get so uppity when you tell them not to speculate.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/05 19:42:58 UTC

My god my head hurts.

Wow...
So you know what happened then?
OMG... thank you for your expert accident analysis. You better fly down to FL and let them know. I'm sure they'll be very thankful to have such a crack expert mind on the case analyzing an accident that you know nothing about. Far better data than the people that were actually there. In short... get fucked.

Jim Rooney - 2013/03/07 18:24:58 UTC

You're the one advocating change here, not me.
I'm fine.

These are only questions if you're advocating change. Which I'm not. You are.

You're the one speculating on Zack's death... not me.
Hell, you've even already come to your conclusions... you've made up your mind and you "know" what happened and what to do about.
It's disgusting and you need to stop.
You weren't there. You don't know.
All you have is the tug pilot report, who himself says he doesn't know... and HE WAS THERE... and he doesn't know.

And I'll tell ya sumpin' else, Paul...

Tost Flugzeuggerätebau

Weak links protect your aircraft against overloading.

The moment you understand that you DO have nothing more to learn about weak links and that's the moment when you become a valuable asset to yourself, others, the sport.

Your initial, anonymous, braggartly post showed us nothing more than your willingness to loudly proclaim how great you are. Did you really expect anyone to take you seriously?

I think it's extremely dangerous NOT to take assholes in this sport seriously - and you're DEFINITELY one of them, Paul.

2014/04/08 22:57:25 UTC - 3 thumbs up - John Borton
2014/04/08 23:57:44 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Jim Rowan

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31051
noise to signal ratio here

gluesniffer - 2014/04/10 05:33:07 UTC

But he had 154 hrs...
The guy kinda reminds me of bob sponge...

AKA Oakdude AKA Paul (Walsh). Total fucking asshole.

...a little volatile. Anal vapour, brit?

Nah. His targets were Southern California. I one hundred percent guarantee you this asshole is Southern California.

Erik Boehm - 2014/04/10 06:18:00 UTC

For some reason, he started claiming that Bubble boy was giving out rating in return for gay sexual favors, I think he claimed that is how SG got his rating.
He used rather "colorful" terms to describe what he said you could do to get a Hang 5.
He started spreading his filth on other topics, including the "things that make you laugh your ass off thread", where he apparently thought it was funny to again make accusations of deviant sexual behavior of bubbleboy and SG.

That guy was a troll, through and through.

PRE CISELY.

John Borton - 2014/04/10 08:27:38 UTC

gluesniffer - 2014/04/10 05:33:07 UTC

The guy kinda reminds me of bob sponge...

Very astute observation.

I think there's a REAL GOOD probability "DrBill" is/was OP / Orion Price. That motherfucker is the textbook definition of a troll. Can't figure out what his game was on this one. But...
- big mouth with nothing to say
- generalized personal attacks without addressing any specific issues - especially anything having to do with hang gliding
- all testicles and no brains
- posted on The Jack Show with the specific intent of being banned - as here on Kite Strings

Hate to admit it but that would give Jack and T** at K*** S****** a little more in common - superficially anyway. We've both banned Bob and OP aka DrBill. And Jack has also banned Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney and I prebanned the motherfucker for life plus a thousand years.

Rooney's also a textbook definition of a troll but hang gliding culture is so stupid and corrupt that he was able to get away with it for the better part of a decade. But, even so, he's damaged goods now. And hopefully we'll be able to take care of OP in a similar manner.

Bob, I realized/accepted far too late, is also a troll but also a con "artist". What a life-draining waste of time it was attempting to have an honest, rational conversation with that manipulative lying sonuvabitch.

P.S. I was able to archive just about all of DrBills final deleted posts - if anyone's interested in them.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31051
noise to signal ratio here

Steve Smith - 2014/04/11 16:36:25 UTC
Rio Vista, California

Its so nice to see you all getting along and sharing a common bond. Perhaps the Troll was just what was needed to truly define Psychopathic Keyboard Warrior and bring us one step closer to world peace...At least on the ORG.
Spread the Love...

- That MOTHERFUCKER was NOT a KEYBOARD WARRIOR. There are tons of wars that need to be fought in this sport, they need to be fought on keyboards and in courts where things are recorded on keyboards, and real keyboard warriors are honorable people and their enemies are TROLLS. And that motherfucker was/is a TROLL.

- The Jack Show is infested with and dominated by trolls and administered by one of the major ones and peace on that forum is a REALLY BAD THING.

- Note that when Jack cut the wire of T** at K*** S****** it was FAR from a overwhelmingly popular action and he had to create a "rule" forbidding participants to reference or link to me, my material, and "related people" - a rule which he's failed rather miserably in implementing and enforcing.

- Note also that he didn't have any need whatsoever to dictate similar edicts regarding DrBill.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31034
Any opinions on the USHPA cover of the April issue?

Davis Straub - 2014/04/06 12:18:41 UTC

michael170 - 2014/04/06 05:37:23 UTC

I like this one also:

Notice how he nicely misses the donkey punch.

Keep working on it, Davis. Lotsa people are pulling for you.

And notice that he's STILL clear of negative feedback for that one. And they don't like him. And that's a pretty good indication that they like you way less.

Steve Seibel - 2014/04/09 15:52:20 UTC

Oops Davis beat me to it. Yes they should have used the nosedive photo...

...from the blog story on this incident!

Yeah, sure...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32318
Lock Out

Alan Deikman - 2013/06/03 20:56:58 UTC

That picture will give me nightmares.

A commercial enterprise whose sole mission is to sell hang and paragliding to the public is gonna show one of their tandem instructors using Industry Standard equipment in normal flying conditions lucking out from a really spectacular fatal impact by a few feet.

Mike Badley - 2014/04/09 17:05:28 UTC

MISSED OPPORTUNITY - to discuss the very real and constant threat of lock-outs with a nice article linked to the cover photo.

Fuck you. Lockouts are pretty much only threats to dildos who use releases that stink on ice. A few of us have worked our asses off developing the solution and handing them to you on silver platters and you either totally ignore or piss all over us and our efforts. Get yourself a 130 pound test Greenspot lockout placebo and break your fuckin' neck.

Jason Boehm - 2014/04/09 17:07:41 UTC

im glad Ben got away from that one

Fuck Ben - and, of course, you. Ben didn't get away from shit. His glider got away from him when he tried to fly it with one hand through a dust devil and pro toad bridle induced lockout while he was trying, unsuccessfully, to effect the easy reach to his Bailey bent pin piece of shit, his driver let him off the hook, and he plummeted like a fuckin' brick waiting for his glider to start flying again. He was BAGGAGE on that flight.

Mike Blankenhorn - 2014/04/09 19:21:46 UTC

wonderwind_flyer - 2014/04/03 14:59:54 UTC

Are there any opinions on the editorial decision to select the photo of Mr. Dunn's near life-threatening lock-out experience for use as the cover photo of this month's magazine?

I remember reading about this event in his blog some months ago and it certainly wasn't a joke. I can understand using the photo in an article regarding towing safety but I question the use of it on the cover. Perhaps I am irritable due to a long winter but this cover certainly doesn't promote any positive aspect of our sport.

What is wrong with you, it's over, nothing happened. Keep your bullshit PTSD to yourself.

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3840
[TIL] About Tad Eareckson

Mike Blankenhorn - 2013/03/12 16:07:44 UTC

We should bury this thread and not give Tad the satisfaction that we are actually wasting our time acknowledging his existence. Yes, this needed to be brought into the light but now we should bury this asshole with some nice cold dirt (metaphorically) and never speak of him again.

Suck my dick, Mike.

2014/04/10 04:02:48 UTC - Sink This! -- TiCruiser

Looks like I'm not entirely alone in this assessment.

Steve Seibel - 2014/04/11 14:50:26 UTC

Ryan's VG article had a lot of good practical tips...

Just what the sport needed - an article on how to pull a string - MOUNTED ON THE BASETUBE to control a system BUILT INTO THE GLIDER and CERTIFIED BY THE MANUFACTURER to make handling/performance tradeoffs.

...but anyone who wants to understand how a cam VG works will end up a bit confused...

Yeah Steve. We've got people in this sport interested in understanding...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8331328638/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8330272911/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8330272479/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8330272123/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8331326948/


...how a cam VG works. And when they do they'll be able to experiment and build even BETTER VG systems into their gliders.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8311348069/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8312399698/

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=21033
barrels release without any tension except weight of rope..

Bart Weghorst - 2011/02/25 19:06:26 UTC

But I've had it once where the pin had bent inside the barrel from excessive tow force. My weaklink was still intact. The tug pilot's weaklink broke so I had the rope. I had to use two hands to get the pin out of the barrel.
No stress because I was high.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Bart Weghorst - 2011/08/28 20:29:27 UTC

Now I don't give a shit about breaking strength anymore. I really don't care what the numbers are. I just want my weaklink to break every once in a while.

Fuck you, Steve.

They perhaps need an editor/ proofreader who is a hg pilot to take a quick read over things like this...

Who'd you have in mind? You'd be the only person in the sport interested in doing something like that. It:
- involves numbers
- doesn't involve any controversy
- will:
-- be one hundred percent useless as far as doing anything to fix the sport or retard the sport's progress down the toilet
-- waste a lot of bandwidth that needs to be dedicated to fixing real, obvious, deadly problems
so it would be right up your alley.

Asshole.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=31088
Lookout Mountain Flight Park instruction part deux

Red Howard - 2014/04/13 00:25:02 UTC

Have fun . . . it just keeps getting better.

http://ozreport.com/forum/files/copy_2_of_imgp1239_197.jpg
http://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7220/13949046702_ccfa0fafab_o.png

http://www.thekiteboarder.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/opener-532x800.jpg



http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51825554649_73fcbc5276_o.png

Jump to next post:
http://www.kitestrings.org/post5959.html#p5959

I'm pretty much constantly editing old posts (there'll be 5878 of them as of this one) to fix minor errors, provide better source documentation, format for better readability, improve embedded image quality, deal with broken and dead links...

Yesterday (Tuesday) morning was dealing with:
http://www.kitestrings.org/post2816.html#p2816
which addresses:
http://ozreport.com/9.175
Lock out

The photo set:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/meaneyman/sets/788506/
Lockout
of Tim Meaney's, which is the subject of that entry, had always bounced as:

This page is private.
Oops! You don't have permission to view this page.

on the several times I'd attempted to access it over many years - which really pissed me off 'cause I REALLY wanted to see it. But this time...

So, with that advantage, here goes with (at least) one more response...

http://ozreport.com/9.175
Lock out

Davis Straub - 2005/08/23

How to kill yourself by aerotowing

So the Robin Strid video wasn't enough to get your attention? Will this help? How about a pilot coming to the 2005 Big Spring Open, not having aerotowed in five years and therefore not knowing enough to release when they were out of whack and just about to do what Robin did (when he couldn't release) and get thrown into the ground hard.

You'll find the sequence here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meaneyman/sets/788506/
Lockout

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meaneyman/35640795/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meaneyman/35640798/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meaneyman/35640812/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meaneyman/35640817/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meaneyman/35640828/

Tim Meaney, who did the scoring at Big Spring, was the photographer.

Look over the shots carefully. Notice that the glider is out of whack from the get go. Notice that the pilot is towing from the pilot's shoulders, and being pulled toward the tug, but the glider is going in the opposite direction, and the pilot is in the cross control position (i.e. the pilot's shoulders are on the right side, but the pilot's legs are on the left side.

Notice that the pilot doesn't correct their incorrect position and get themselves over to the right side including and most importantly their legs, the side with the wing high. Notice where the hang glider is pointed in comparison to where the tug is pointed. Compare this to the Robin Strid video. Very similar.

How is this pilot saved? Not by releasing, as the pilot doesn't even seem to be aware that he/she is about to be killed. No, instead, Bobby Bailey (sound familiar here?) recognizes the problem, eases back on the stick and the gas, and moves to the left to save the pilot from a lockout.

Will this pilot read this report in the Oz Report? Unlikely. They appear to have missed the previous report which I wrote in a perhaps vain attempt to save some pilot's lives. It is so discouraging to see this.

Actively control the glider on tow and in the cart. Do not cross control. If you are the slightest bit uncomfortable, release and launch again.

So the Robin Strid video wasn't enough to get your attention?

Of course it was!

http://ozreport.com/9.009
2005 Worlds

Davis Straub - 2005/01/11

Rohan Holtkamp did an analysis of the accident, in particular the bridle and weaklink, which never broke. The weaklink was caught on the release mechanism, a standard spinnaker release found on bridle systems used at Lookout Mountain, Moyes, Wallaby Ranch, and Quest Air. The release clamp has an arm that is thicker at the release point and this held onto the weaklink which consisted of multiple loops of thick line.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8318769461/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8318781297/

This type of release mechanism has been banned (at least for a short while) from the Worlds at Hay.

The release mechanism that killed him was banned (at least for a short while) from the Worlds at Hay. Problem solved.

If the Robin Strid video was such a valuable resource for the advancement of aerotowing safety then why the fuck did you pull it? Because it very clearly showed:

- a highly skilled competition pilot being totaled by the standard spinnaker release found on bridle systems used at Lookout Mountain, Moyes, Wallaby Ranch, and Quest Air and Lookout Mountain, Moyes, Wallaby Ranch, and Quest Air wouldn't tolerate it's banning for more than a short time from the Worlds at Hay?

- how badly what little control Robin had in this critical situation was compromised when he effected the easy reach to the bicycle brake lever velcroed to his downtube?

- that:

-- Robin's "stronglink" had absolutely no bearing on the issue?

-- Bobby Bailey - the best tow pilot in the business and a fucking genius when it comes to this shit could've very easily and safely aborted the tow right at the get-go and elected not to?

How about a pilot coming to the 2005 Big Spring Open, not having aerotowed in five years and therefore not knowing enough to release when they were out of whack and just about to do what Robin did (when he couldn't release) and get thrown into the ground hard.

- Yeah. Watch Ollie here:

01-001

04-200

07-300

10-307

15-413


He's a tandem instructor and tows all the time. And he DOES know enough to release when he's out of whack and just about to do what Robin did (when he couldn't release) and get thrown into the ground hard.

- Whoa! HOW ABOUT THAT!!! And just look at all these other fuckin' muppets:

10-525
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/435/19224482318_2da3f48afe_o.png

25-04714
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7319/11414267393_23e21cf4b8_o.png

42-05328
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7309/11414153476_3ca8cc4036_o.png

http://ozreport.com/pub/images/Jrs_2009.jpg

http://ozreport.com/pub/images/Jrs_2010.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meaneyman/35642942/sizes/o/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meaneyman/35642828//sizes/o/

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3725/9665623251_612b921d70_o.png
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9Ek9_lFeSII/UZ4KuB0MUSI/AAAAAAAAGyU/eWfhGo4QeqY/s1024/GOPR5278.JPG

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Xh_NfnOcUns/UZ4Lm0HvXnI/AAAAAAAAGyk/0PlgrHfc__M/s1024/GOPR5279.JPG
07-300


10-307
022-04610
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2809/13746340634_a74b33d285_o.png

088-05301
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3708/13746233274_c1a80f35c1_o.png


They've all got perfectly good releases within easy reach and they just leave their hands on the control frame until:
- they slam in
- it's too late to do them much good
- the Davis Link increases the safety of the towing operation too late to do much good

- Probably...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1143
Death at Tocumwal

Davis Straub - 2006/01/24 12:27:32 UTC

Bill Moyes argues that you should not have to move your hand from the base bar to release. That is because your natural inclination is to continue to hold onto the base bar in tough conditions and to try to fly the glider when you should be releasing.

...because their natural inclination is to continue to try to fly the glider when they should be releasing.

- Or maybe...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=25435
Raunchy Day At The Ridge + Release Failure

Diev Hart - 2012/03/06 01:06:39 UTC

Right there (I think) is the main issue...some pilots think they can fix a bad thing and don't want to start over.

...they think they can fix a bad thing and don't want to start over. Have any thoughts on this one...


http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident2.jpg
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident3.jpg


...Davis?

- Or maybe they just hadn't aerotowed in the previous five years and therefore didn't know enough to release when they were out of whack and just about to do what Robin did (when he couldn't release) and not get thrown into the ground hard. Maybe we should make sure everyone aerotows at least once every three years or thereabouts so's they understand how important it is to release in a lockout.

Fuckin' douchebag.

Look over the shots carefully. Notice that the glider is out of whack from the get go.

Yeah.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meaneyman/35640798/


Do we get to hear anything about WHY? Crosswind, hang-up, crappy cradles design, pushed out prematurely, forgot to grasp hold-downs...?

Notice that the pilot is towing from the pilot's shoulders...

It's called...

06-03114
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3728/9655895292_f4f808fb0e_o.png


...PRO towing. You really need to be a pro...

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3746/13864051003_a820bcf2b8_o.png


...to be able to do it...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bRrpHNa68iY/UQ6Pv9gRZyI/AAAAAAAAjTg/Hc22bx5122Q/s2048/20943781_BG1.jpg


...safely.

...and being pulled toward the tug, but the glider is going in the opposite direction...

Go figure! I'da thunk that would've automatically leveled the glider. That's what...

Donnell Hewett - 1982/09

As can be seen, this sideways force tends to pull the pilot over to the correct side to make the glider turn naturally in the proper direction.

...Donnell Hewett says. And...

Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06

Dr. Lionel D. Hewitt, professor of physics and developer of the 2-to-1 center-of-mass Skyting bridle for surface towing, is well respected for his knowledge of towing, bridles, and weak links.

...he's well respected for his knowledge of towing, bridles, and weak links. Just see Reference 4 if you don't believe me.

...and the pilot is in the cross control position (i.e. the pilot's shoulders are on the right side, but the pilot's legs are on the left side.

Fuck you, Davis.

- In those first photos...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meaneyman/35640812/


...the suspension's way the hell over towards the right side of the control frame. That tells us about how much muscle he's using for roll input - tensioning the starboard sidewire and easing the tension on the port.

- How 'bout you show me a video of someone making a glider go left by pulling his shoulders to the right and letting his legs rotate to the left? Until you can do that how 'bout shutting the fuck up about CROSS controlling?

Notice that the pilot doesn't correct their incorrect position and get themselves over to the right side including and most importantly their legs, the side with the wing high. Notice where the hang glider is pointed in comparison to where the tug is pointed. Compare this to the Robin Strid video. Very similar.

Oh. So Robin Strid, a Norwegian national champion, totally sucked too. Had less instinct and ability regarding roll control than a lot of Lesson Two dune students I've worked with.

How is this pilot saved?

By his Davis Link?

http://ozreport.com/12.081
Weaklinks - the HGFA rules

Davis Straub - 2008/04/22 14:47:00 UTC

What material should be used for weaklinks?

From section 3.4 of the 1999 Hang Gliding Federation of Australia Towing Manual:

Recommended breaking load of a weak link is 1g. - i.e. the combined weight of pilot, harness and glider (dependent on pilot weight - usually approximately 90 to 100 kg for solo operations; or approximately 175 kg for tandem operations).

Each pilot should have his/her own weak link of appropriate strength.

It is recommended that a new weak link is used for every launch; or a fabric sheath is used to cover the weak link to protect it as it is dragged along the ground.

Testing weak links tied from "No 8" builders string line has shown that the type of knot used does not greatly affect the breaking strain of the weak link.

Here is the requirement from the 2007 Worlds local rules (which I wrote) for weaklinks:

Pilots must use weaklinks provided by the meet organizers and in a manner approved by the meet organizers. All weaklinks will be checked and use of inappropriate weaklinks will require the pilot to go to the end of the launch line to change the weaklink.

Weaklinks will consist of a single loop of Cortland 130 lb Greenspot braided Dacron Tolling line and should be placed at one end of a shoulder bridle.

At the 2008 Forbes Flatlands Greenspot for the first time was used as the standard weaklink material (thanks in large part to the efforts of Bobby Bailey). We applaud these efforts to improve the safety of aerotowing by using a better weaklink material.

The focal point of his safe towing system? The standard weak link material that (thanks in large part to the efforts of Bobby Bailey) was used at the 2008 Forbes Flatlands to improve the safety of aerotowing?

Not by releasing, as the pilot doesn't even seem to be aware that he/she is about to be killed.

- Don't you mean: "...as the pilot doesn't even seem to be aware that THEY ARE about to be killed."?

- Yeah, TOTAL doofus. Just like THIS:

022-04610
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2809/13746340634_a74b33d285_o.png


asshole. No fuckin' CLUE that anything's wrong, that he's just five seconds away from having his brain turned to mush and his life destroyed. Probably just boating around, totally oblivious to the tug...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meaneyman/35640817/


...enjoying the view. What possible other explanation could there be?

No, instead, Bobby Bailey (sound familiar here?)...

Oh yeah! The best tow pilot in the business - a fucking genius when it comes to this shit.

...recognizes the problem...

He RECOGNIZED the PROBLEM?! Wow! He REALLY IS the best tow pilot in the business - a fucking genius when it comes to this shit. Thank GOD he became a tow pilot instead of a quantum physicist! Such a pity that he didn't recognize THIS:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8318781297/


problem with the piece of shit he concocted as an aerotow release and ban it (at least for a short while) from the Worlds at Hay BEFORE Robin was killed by it.

...eases back on the stick and the gas, and moves to the left to save the pilot from a lockout.

REALLY?!

- He didn't just...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meaneyman/35640817/


...dump him? But that worked out so well for Ben...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9Ek9_lFeSII/UZ4KuB0MUSI/AAAAAAAAGyU/eWfhGo4QeqY/s1024/GOPR5278.JPG

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Xh_NfnOcUns/UZ4Lm0HvXnI/AAAAAAAAGyk/0PlgrHfc__M/s1024/GOPR5279.JPG

...when Joel dumped him.

- So the guys on both ends of the line plus the Davis Link - all of whom were THERE - all determined that the best course of action was...

Wills Wing / Blue Sky / Steve Wendt / Ryan Voight Productions - 2007/03

NEVER CUT THE POWER...



Reduce Gradually
Increase Gradually

...to continue the tow. But only He/She is an asshole for not aborting it. Can you walk me through your arithmetic on that one, Davis?

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25015
Zippy pounds in

Davis Straub - 2011/09/02 18:37:09 UTC

Concussions are in fact very serious and have life long effects. The last time I was knocked out what in 9th grade football. I have felt the effects of that ever since. It changes your wiring.

Never mind.

- I notice that as severe as that situation was...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skysailingtowing/message/6726
Give 'em the rope? When?

William Olive - 2005/02/11 08:59:57 UTC

I give 'em the rope if they drop a tip (seriously drop a tip), or take off stalled. You will NEVER be thanked for it, for often they will bend some tube.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14221
Tad's release

William Olive - 2008/12/24 23:46:36 UTC

I've seen a few given the rope by alert tug pilots, early on when things were going wrong, but way before it got really ugly. Invariably the HG pilot thinks "What the hell, I would have got that back. Now I've got a bent upright."

The next one to come up to the tuggie and say "Thanks for saving my life." will be the first.

...nothing got bent. Wouldn't that suggest that Bobby's a driver far superior to Billo and...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/08/01 13:47:23 UTC

Whatever's going on back there, I can fix it by giving you the rope.

...Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney - your...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/28 06:15:12 UTC

You may not know, but Davis is a friend of mine.
We have discussed this many times in person. We are not in disagreement.

If you can not see that we're in agreement, perhaps I can clear things up for you. Or Davis can.
Either way, you're the one creating the drama.

...very good friend?

Will this pilot read this report in the Oz Report?

Will he read it in an incident report in Hang Gliding magazine? Will it figure into an annual summary so's flight parks, tow operations, the Towing Committee, individual pilots can look at the trends and work on the problems?

Will he get to read a report written by anyone who bothered to get HIS perspective on things? Or is it plenty good enough to have him portrayed as a total asshole by some total fucking douchebag like Davis?

How come you know so goddam much about exactly what was going on and why on this one with no statement from either of the participants in the tow while you're totally fuckin' clueless...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Mark Frutiger - 2013/02/08 19:12:21 UTC

Zack hit the lift a few seconds after I did. He was high and to the right of the tug and was out of my mirror when the weak ling broke. The load on the tug was not excessive as with a lockout, but I was not surprised when the weak link broke. I was still in the thermal when I caught sight of Zack again. I did not see the entry to the tumble, but I did see two revolutions of a forward tumble before kicking the tug around to land. The thermal was still active in the area that I had just launched from so I did a go round and landed on a runway 90 degrees cross to the direction we were towing in.

http://zweefvliegopleiding.nl/index.php/thermiek

Davis Straub - 2013/02/09 16:45:39 UTC

I can't see how the weaklink has anything to do with this accident.

...on the Zack Marzec fatality?

So if Bobby saved him from a lockout then he didn't lock out. So then there was no need to abort the tow. So then it's pretty safe to assume that he continued the tow successfully to altitude. So then it's a pretty safe bet that he wasn't the total doofus you're making him out to be. And I also note that nobody said anything about problems with previous or successive tows or anybody refusing to tow him. And that WOULD have happened if he'd insisted on...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2467
weak links

Jim Rooney - 2007/07/22 22:30:28 UTC

I've heard it a million times before from comp pilots insisting on towing with even doubled up weaklinks (some want no weaklink).

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question

Jim Rooney - 2008/11/24 05:18:15 UTC

I've personally refused to tow a flight park owner over this very issue. I didn't want to clash, but I wasn't towing him. Yup, he wanted to tow with a doubled up weaklink. He eventually towed (behind me) with a single and sorry to disappoint any drama mongers, we're still friends. And lone gun crazy Rooney? Ten other tow pilots turned him down that day for the same reason.

...using a two hundred pound weak link.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Davis Straub - 2011/08/28 15:26:28 UTC

Then again, Russell Brown had us double up behind him after six breaks in a row at Zapata. We couldn't figure out why we had so many breaks so quickly. Maybe just coincidence.

You motherfuckers have no problem whatsoever pulling any bozo capable of flashing a card and plopping a glider on a cart but are all frothing at the mouth about pulling someone with a weak link in the middle of the legal/safety range.

Unlikely.

What about the assholes who signed him off? If the guy's a total doofus don't his instructors and rating officials merit some real serious scrutiny?

They appear to have missed the previous report which I wrote in a perhaps vain attempt to save some pilot's lives.

Yeah, you wrote a report about a guy getting killed by a blindingly obvious defect in an aerotow "release" Bobby Fucking-Genius Bailey had "designed" and how it was banned (at least for a short while) from the Worlds at Hay by all the shitheaded douchebags running the show while they doubly fixed the problem by mandating weak links too light to get gliders airborne and using polypro towlines to try to keep them from breaking. And you also told us about how he got off to a really shitty start solely because he foot launched...

10-525
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/435/19224482318_2da3f48afe_o.png


...solely because the launch carts where nearly as crappy as the rest of the equipment being used.

It is so discouraging to see this.

Especially after you've labored SO tirelessly for SO MANY years for compliance with safety standards and regulations and developing and promoting innovative equipment and procedures. And I was so very certain that after all the writing you did on Robin slamming in that we would never again see a low level aerotow lockout.

Actively control the glider on tow and in the cart. Do not cross control. If you are the slightest bit uncomfortable, release and launch again.

Wow! That was TRULY inspirational. I'm sure now that all the people who:
- don't actively control the glider on tow and in the cart
- cross control
- stay on tow when they're the slightest bit uncomfortable
will now mend their ways and become Zack...

37-23223
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3713/9655904048_89cce6423a_o.png


...Marzec / Ben...



...Dunn / Davis...



...Straub caliber aerotow pilots.

And I'm SO looking forward to an article from you on actively controlling the glider in the cart. I'd actually rather have one from your good friend Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney but I don't think he's allowed to post anything on aerotowing any more.

And when you've done with that one maybe we can get an article on aerotow releases and which ones are the most aerodynamic and easily stowed. Interesting that you've made this report all about what an ass this guy was for not releasing and haven't given us one single word about what he was equipped with in the way of a release. And mention of the weak link he was using and why it failed to do...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31052
Poll on weaklinks

Davis Straub - 2013/03/06 18:29:05 UTC

You know, after all this discussion I'm now convinced that it is a very good idea to treat the weaklink as a release, that that is exactly what we do when we have a weaklink on one side of a pro tow bridle. That that is exactly what has happened to me in a number of situations and that the whole business about a weaklink only for the glider not breaking isn't really the case nor a good idea for hang gliding.

I'm happy to have a relatively weak weaklink, and have never had a serious problem with the Greenspot 130, just an inconvenience now and then.

I'm thinking about doing a bit more testing as there seemed to be some disagreement around here about what the average breaking strength of a loop of Greenspot (or orange) weaklink was.

...what it was SUPPOSED TO is also totally and conspicuously absent.

Jump to top:
http://www.kitestrings.org/post5922.html#p5922

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question

Jim Rooney - 2008/11/24 05:18:15 UTC

Well, I'm assuming there was some guff about the tug pilot's right of refusal?
Gee, didn't think we'd have to delve into "pilot in command"... I figured that one's pretty well understood in a flying community.

It's quite simple.
The tug is a certified aircraft... the glider is an unpowered ultralight vehicle. The tug pilot is the pilot in command. You are a passenger. You have the same rights and responsibilities as a skydiver.
It's a bitter pill I'm sure, but there you have it.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30971
Zach Marzec

Jim Rooney - 2013/02/16 05:05:41 UTC

Here's a little bit of bitter reality that ya'll get to understand straight off. I won't be sugar coating it, sorry.
You see, I'm on the other end of that rope.
I want neither a dead pilot on my hands or one trying to kill me.
And yes. It is my call. PERIOD.
On tow, I am the PIC.

Now, that cuts hard against every fiber of every HG pilot on the planet and I get that.
Absolutely no HG pilot likes hearing it. Not me, not no one. BUT... sorry, that's the way it is.
Accept it and move on.
Not only can you not change it, it's the law... in the very literal sense.

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24846
Is this a joke ?

Jim Rooney - 2011/08/26 10:11:31 UTC

Oh, btw... before you go there, cuz it is where you're headed... please note the word "Guidelines".

As I said.
Been through this shit a million freaking times.
Please quit trying to educate me about my job.

Let's make it a million and one - 'cause I find you to be an unbelievably slow learner and extremely ill suited for the...

The Press - 2006/03/15

The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) is urgently pushing for new hang-gliding industry standards after learning a hang-gliding pilot who suffered serious injuries in a crash three weeks ago had not clipped himself on to the glider.

Extreme Air tandem gliding pilot James (Jim) Rooney safely clipped his passenger into the glider before departing from the Coronet Peak launch site, near Queenstown, CAA sports and recreation manager Rex Kenny said yesterday.

However, he took off without attaching himself.

In a video, he was seen to hold on to the glider for about fifty meters before hitting power lines.

Rooney and the passenger fell about fifteen meters to the ground.

...jobs these douchebags at these...

http://towforce.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/an-open-letter-to-tandem-hang-glider.html
Towforce: An Open Letter to the Tandem Hang Glider and Paraglider Pilot Community.

Murray Wood - 2014/05/02 00:44

Several years ago I witnessed tandem operations in Queenstown and was horrified at the accepted behaviour and complacency at every level of tandem operations... I hope thing have changed.

...shoddy operations hire douchebags like you to do.

So this may conflict a bit with the stuff you like to pull out of your ass and feed to adoring fans like Kinsley Sykes but let's take a look at the ACTUAL LAW...

CFR > Title 14 > Chapter I > Subchapter D > Part 61 > Subpart B > Section 61.69

§ 61.69 Glider and unpowered ultralight vehicle towing: Experience and training requirements.

(a) No person may act as pilot in command for towing a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle unless that person-

- (1) Holds a private, commercial or airline transport pilot certificate with a category rating for powered aircraft;

- (2) Has logged at least 100 hours of pilot-in-command time in the aircraft category, class and type, if required, that the pilot is using to tow a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle;

- (3) Has a logbook endorsement from an authorized instructor who certifies that the person has received ground and flight training in gliders or unpowered ultralight vehicles and is proficient in-

-- (i) The techniques and procedures essential to the safe towing of gliders or unpowered ultralight vehicles, including airspeed limitations;

-- (ii) Emergency procedures;

-- (iii) Signals used; and

-- (iv) Maximum angles of bank.

- (4) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, has logged at least three flights as the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft while towing a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle, or has simulated towing flight procedures in an aircraft while accompanied by a pilot who meets the requirements of paragraphs (c) and (d) of this section.

- (5) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, has received a logbook endorsement from the pilot, described in paragraph (a)(4) of this section, certifying that the person has accomplished at least 3 flights in an aircraft while towing a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle, or while simulating towing flight procedures; and

- (6) Within 24 calendar months before the flight has-

-- (i) Made at least three actual or simulated tows of a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle while accompanied by a qualified pilot who meets the requirements of this section; or

-- (ii) Made at least three flights as pilot in command of a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle towed by an aircraft.

(b) Any person who, before May 17, 1967, has made and logged 10 or more flights as pilot in command of an aircraft towing a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle in accordance with a certificate of waiver need not comply with paragraphs (a)(4) and (a)(5) of this section.

(c) The pilot, described in paragraph (a)(4) of this section, who endorses the logbook of a person seeking towing privileges must have-

- (1) Met the requirements of this section prior to endorsing the logbook of the person seeking towing privileges; and

- (2) Logged at least 10 flights as pilot in command of an aircraft while towing a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle.

(d) If the pilot described in paragraph (a)(4) of this section holds only a private pilot certificate, then that pilot must have-

- (1) Logged at least 100 hours of pilot-in-command time in airplanes, or 200 hours of pilot-in-command time in a combination of powered and other-than-powered aircraft; and

- (2) Performed and logged at least three flights within the 12 calendar months preceding the month that pilot accompanies or endorses the logbook of a person seeking towing privileges-

-- (i) In an aircraft while towing a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle accompanied by another pilot who meets the requirements of this section; or

-- (ii) As pilot in command of a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle being towed by another aircraft.

[Doc. No. FAA-2001-11133, 69 FR 44866, July 27, 2004, as amended by Amdt. 61-124, 74 FR 42555, Aug. 21, 2009]

And from that let's take:

Made at least three flights as pilot in command of a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle towed by an aircraft.

As pilot in command of a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle being towed by another aircraft.

So, regardless of what's in front of the unpowered ultralight vehicle - a powered ultralight vehicle or certified aircraft - it's got a Pilot In Command who's very certainly and obviously NOT at the front end of the string.

And, seeing as how none of your douchebag professional pilot and flight park operator douchebag buddies has ever disabused you of this delusion of grandeur you've been maintaining for well over a minimum of half a decade I'd say it's an extremely good bet that your scummy little circle of colleagues is totally infested with other assholes who are in desperate need of being educated about their jobs.

Or maybe you can cite a source which supersedes this one that legitimizes your long held and cherished position.

P.S. Ever find out what the problem was that killed Keavy Nenninger and Mark Knight on the aircraft of which you actually ARE Pilots In Command - at least before they suddenly spin out of control? Maybe you should worry about getting your shit together with respect to your own planes before getting so heavily involved in telling us how to run ours.