http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4247
Hook in failure in New Zealand
Jim Rooney - 2006/09/25 11:37:18 UTC
i've been preaching this stuff for a long time...
There's no end of moronic lunatic rot that you've been preaching for a long time.
that's the irony... i was one of those 'hang checks will save you' guys.
What...
http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1153
Hooking In
Steve Kinsley - 2005/10/02 02:45:48 UTC
When Bob Gillisse got hurt I suggested that our local institution of the hang check is more the problem than the solution. I still believe that. It subverts the pilot's responsibility to perform a hook-in check. I often do not see pilots doing a hook-in check. Why should they? They just did a hang check and they are surrounded by friends who will make sure this box is checked.
DO A HOOK IN CHECK. You need a system that you do every time regardless of how many hang checks you have been subjected to that assures you are hooked in.
...irony?
And then when that didn't work out so great you changed it to
jim@130lbgreenspot.com. What is it now?
jim@shithappens.com?
i was the religious finatic about checking.
Religious finatics are a dime a dozen in this sport. They tend to crowd out the people capable of rational thought processes.
i did do hookin checks (after hang checks)
Oh. I JUST figured this out.
- You're not saying:
-- "I do hook-in checks."
-- "A hook-in check is always part of my routine."
-- "A hook-in check was always part of my routine."
- You're saying:
-- "i did do hookin checks (after hang checks)"
- That means that...
-- Twice in the course of your previous hang gliding career - and quite probably no more than that - you did a walk-through.
-- And this was OBVIOUSLY *NEVER* a component of the routine you or any of your fellow Extreme Air douchebags were doing for tandem.
- And you're insinuating that a hook-in check is of no value whatsoever because:
-- it WAS part of your normal routine
-- and look what happened anyway
i did all the stuff you guys are saying will save you
BULLSHIT. Neither you nor any of your pigfucker buddies...
Jim Rooney - 2010/05/31 01:53:13 UTC
BTW, Steve Wendt is exceptionally knowledgeable. Hell, he's the one that signed off my instructor rating.
...has ever has ever done, taught, or looked for a hook-in check as a component of a routine - tandem or solo.
guess what?
all that stuff is good stuff to do... it helps with other problems. but it helps with other problems.
Oh. Another profound statement from Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney. Let me write that down.
if you think that you're immune to omissions because you this, or you do that, then god help you.
Thank you so very much, oh Keenly Intellectual expert on how to prevent unhooked launches. Now I understand that I, like you, am just rolling dice every time I foot launch (same way I am whenever I hook up behind some asshole on a Dragonfly.)
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=11288
*???tandems???*
Jim Rooney - 2009/04/03 23:24:31 UTC
The ultra-short version goes something like this...
Why don't you give us the ultra-long version, motherfucker?
- Not worth your time? You've got better things to do - like write Russian novels' worth of threads on flare timing?
- Or is the ultra-long version precluded by terms of the settlement - along with making the video publicly available?
...(dawning firesuit for the ensuing bitchfest that always follows)....
You don't need to dawn - or evening - a firesuit for any bitchfests, Jim. You'll always have someone with lock, delete, and ban buttons to bail your ass out when it's getting chewed to shreds. And, failing that, you can just threaten not to tow anybody who makes you look like the incompetent moron you are.
The trouble with clipin procedures (or any procedure for that matter) is when interrupted, you must remember which step you are on. Checklists are good things, but this is their inherent weakness.
Any chance we can hear from somebody who HASN'T three quarters killed himself in the course of a hang gliding career spanning less than four years?
I went straight from clipping my passenger in (insert interruption here)...
How 'bout you TELL US what the interruption was? Or is that not permissible under the terms of the ultra-short version - and/or settlement? Can you at least tell us if she was hot looking and/or what she was wearing? (I'm trying to think of some other reason Jim Keen-Intellect Rooney would be evasive about the distraction and nothing's coming to me.)
...to thinking I'd just finished my hang check.
So? How is that relevant?
Note... I didn't say skipping it, I said thinking I'd just finished it. Not only were hangchecks legally mandatory, I had two other people helping me with them. None of us caught it. How's it happen?... get in a rush.
1. Is that how it happened to Bill Priday and Kunio Yoshimura?
2. So you had two more assistants than Jon Orders had but everyone was in too much of a rush to check that there were two carabiners engaging the suspension? What was it that your assistants were rushing to do that took precedence over this?
3. So just as long as we're not rushed we're cool? Doesn't that make Marc Fink who was stuck in line for half an hour a bit hard to explain?
4. But...
i did do hookin checks (after hang checks)
You did do hook-in checks (after hang checks). So were you also thinking you'd just finished doing that as well when you started your launch run? Did the two assholes helping you also just happen to miss the hook-in check? Six times an individual missed a check in the space of a minute? And if you were rushing you weren't waiting behind another glider and that happened in the space of a minute. Really amazing that all that shit just happened to line up wrong that day.
So yeah... while people find it quite easy to brush it all off saying "always do a hang check and you'll never launch unhooked"...
You mean the way Paul Voight, USHGA, and all the pigfuckers who collaborated in THIS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW8qZESnFvQ
[video]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW8qZESnFvQ[/video]
despicable video are saying? I seem to have missed your condemnation of it - and I find that a bit remarkable given your deep concern for hang gliding safety as manifested by your tireless campaign against stronglinks and funky shit releases and their designers and advocates.
I equate this to saying "always hook up your caribiner and you'll never launch unhooked"... while both are equally as true... both are equally as useless as advice.
Isn't that the foundation and sum total of Steve Instructor-of-the-Year Wendt's unhooked launch prevention training?
Rob Kells - 2005/12
Following a recent fatal accident caused by the pilot launching unhooked, there has been a discussion on how to guarantee that you are hooked in. The two main methods are:
1. Always do a hang check before launch, and/or
2. Always hook your harness into the glider before you get into the harness.
Interestingly, NEITHER of these methods GUARANTEES that you will not launch unhooked some day. Let's add a third one:
3. Always lift the glider vertically and feel the tug on the leg straps when the harness mains go tight, just before you start your launch run. I always use this test.
A hang check seems to be a very reasonable way to ensure that you are hooked in, your lines are straight, and that you are the proper distance from the base bar. However, it does not ensure that you are in your leg loops. I know most pilots include the leg loops as part of their hang check, but remember the point about distractions. Several pilots have launched unhooked after doing a hang check because they were distracted and unhooked from the glider, and then, remembering having done a hang check earlier, they ran off the hill unhooked. If you unhook for any reason after your hang check, and a hang check is your way to be sure you are hooked in, you must always do another hang check! In some conditions, though, it's difficult to do a hang check, e.g. if you are the last pilot to launch.
"Knowing" that if you are in your harness you must be hooked in, means that if something comes up that causes you to unhook for any reason, you are actually in greater danger of thinking you are hooked in when you are not. This happened to a pilot who used the Oz Method for several years and then went to the training hill for some practice flights. He unhooked from the glider to carry it up the hill. At the top, sitting under the glider with his harness on, he picked up the glider and launched unhooked. Fortunately he was not hurt... but I bet he was very surprised.
My partners (Steve Pearson and Mike Meier) and I have over 25,000 hang glider flights and have managed (so far) to have hooked in every time. I also spoke with test pilots Ken Howells and Peter Swanson about their methods (another 5000 flights). Not one of us regularly uses either of the two most popular methods outlined above. Each of us agrees that it is not a particular method, but rather the fear of launching unhooked that makes us diligent to be sure we are hooked in every time before starting the launch run.
Flame on kids.
No one ever listens anyway.
Oh, but *I* do Jim. 'Cause it never takes too long to catch stupid little sociopaths like you in inconsistencies, contradictions, and flat-out lies. And it's so much fun watching you squirm while you struggle to explain and justify them.
It's just occurred to me that you've never made a mistake about anything in your entire eleven year flying career.
- If you launch a tandem with yourself unhooked it was just an inevitable hazard of foot launching that happens from time to time and will happen to anybody who flies long enough.
- If you get asked how a double loop of Greenspot overrides the tug's weak link and endangers the tug unacceptably when on a solo but not a tandem you put your challenger on your ignore list, wait five years, and then explain to all the muppets how once the glider's exceeds the tug's it becomes irrelevant.
- If you spend the better part of a decade rabidly attacking people who want to fly actual 200 pound weak links instead of the 130 pounders the flight parks are telling everyone are 260 pounders and - after a 130 kills a tandem aerotow instructor - the flight parks start using 200 then it's because accepted standards have changed as a result of Morningside deciding they were happy with it.
- I'd be astounded to learn that you were ever more than a quarter second off on your flare timing or missed a spot by more than five or six feet.
You can NEVER afford to acknowledge that there's the slightest value to any form of hook-in check because that would be:
- an admission that you almost killed a passenger and spent two and a half months in the hospital at New Zealand's expense because so much as a routine of doing a walk-through immediately prior to pickup was too goddam much trouble
- a statement that Steve Exceptionally-Knowledgeable Wendt effectively murdered Bill Priday by signing him off in blatant violation of USHGA rating requirements - and is continuing to put untold hundreds of accidents waiting to happen into circulation.
on their launches. Or a little rattled by gusty conditions. Or complacent because the conditions are brain dead easy. Or...
