Kite Strings

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3713
Safety Review Board

Steve Murillo - 2012/12/16 18:50:49 UTC
Manhattan Beach

Hey Gang,

Thanks to all who supported me in my appointment as Safety Director for the SHGA. I will do my best.

It's gonna take WAY more than that, Steve.

As a first step, I propose to create a Safety Review Board. The purpose of this board will be to research mishaps/incidents as they occur...

Versus implementing and enforcing solid policy to prevent them from happening in the first place. Can't begin to tell you just how much admiration I have for this effort already.

...and come up with findings and recommendations that will further promote the safety of our club members.

Yeah, right. Sylmar guys are gonna find totally new ways to screw pooches and your Safety Review Board is gonna come up with fixes that nobody's thought of before. Bullshit.

For every pooch that's ever been screwed on a glider there's an excellent procedure or strategy for dealing with it that's been well understood since at least the Seventies by the few people in this idiot sport with their shit together. And if you were worth a rat's ass as a Safety Director you'd be looking at those procedures and strategies - many of which are plainly documented in SOPs, regulations, and owner's manuals - and getting them implemented and enforced BEFORE shit happens.

The philosophy behind our research, findings and recommendations will demand the highest regard for the people involved.

Oh, yeah. Can't see a problem with that approach.

If, for example, Davis gets on a known defective launch dolly with shit primary and backup releases which violate USHGA/FAA aerotowing regulations, conform to no standards whatsoever, and are known to be both inaccessible in emergencies and inoperable even when they are accessed and then chews his face up pretty good...


http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident2.jpg
http://ozreport.com/pub/images/fingerlakesaccident3.jpg


...and narrowly misses breaking his fuckin' neck we should ignore all of his despicable efforts to keep good equipment from getting into circulation and continue to hold him in the highest regard.

Likewise with respect to Rob Kells who outfitted the demo glider with the Wallaby shit, the tug driver who elected to tow this asshole with his defective cart and shit release equipment, and Greg DeWolf and all the other assholes present at that ongoing clusterfuck who did nothing to shut it down and address the problems.

Respect and anonymity will be watch words.

Fuck respect and anonymity. Out in the real world when there are smashed up cars, ambulances, and helicopters people tend not to be treated with respect and anonymity they don't deserve. They get charged, arrested, fingerprinted, photographed, imprisoned, and sued and appearances on the eleven o'clock news.

And if assholes like Sam were treated the way they should be instead of respect they no way in hell will ever deserve we'd have a whole lot fewer incidents like THIS:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8143/7462005802_bbc0ac66ac_o.jpg

As such, I am looking for five volunteers to be members of this board. H-2, H-3, and H-4 pilots are welcome.

But not Hang Ones? A smart Hang One couldn't POSSIBLY have anything to offer that some Hang Five asshole like Ryan Voight couldn't or wouldn't?

Tell me why someone with any kind of pilot rating would necessarily be better than a ground bound twelve year old with abilities to read and think.

I would also request one member of the Windsports staff to be a member.

SUPER! Get someone from the commercial interest that controls most of the deficient and defective training responsible for most of the death and destruction in the LA Basin area to make sure nobody strays too far off the reservation with any findings and recommendations.

Please send me a direct email at Steve90266@gmail.com or post here if you are interested in participating. Thanks.

Steve Murillo - 2012/12/19 01:34:53 UTC

The Safety Review Board is complete:
1. NMERider
2. Andy Beem
3. Robb Derringer
4. Richard Shaw
5. Michael Bastan

Oh good. I can finally see some light at the end of the tunnel as far you guys getting your unhooked launch situation under control.

Thanks for stepping up, guys. I promise no long meetings.

Yeah Steve, I sure wouldn't want to invest too much time on any of these issues when we've got all this highly refined, well oiled machinery geared towards blaming mangled or dead flyers for not doing hang checks, being off on flare timing, failing to maintain enough airspeed to recover from a standard aerotow weak link blow, or staying on tow and trying to save a bad situation instead of getting off at the first sign of trouble.

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3713
Safety Review Board

Jeff Chipman - 2013/01/09 03:02:41 UTC
Sylmar

I believe that one of the things that will help the legitimacy of this board would to encourage ALL members to become OBSERVERS.

I believe that one of the things that will help the legitimacy of that board would be to shoot Andy, get rid of everyone else except Jonathan and tell him to keep his mouth shut on unhooked launch and towing issues, replace the empty spaces with people who've contributed something to a safety issue discussion or given some indication of gotten something legitimate from one or two of them, and have them all sign a pledge committing them to the destruction of USHGA and all of its douchebag representatives and officials.

As the safety officer, I think that would be one thing that you could do to make being a member of the safety board actually even more meaningful.

Even more meaningful than WHAT? I can one hundred percent guarantee you right now that you'd need an assault rifle to motivate this body up to the point of total uselessness.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28068
JR world

Brad Barkley - 2013/01/16 03:54:26 UTC
Frostburg

Dennis Wood has 5 posts total on the org....none of them are about hang gliding. Yet he has found the time for some reason, to down vote four of my posts, and I have no idea who he is. You stalking me, dude? You have a little crush on me? Do you actually fly, or just come here to stir the pot? If you do fly, how about tossing in an actual HG post here and there, just for variety.

Edit: This is not referring to Peanuts, who is a good guy and frequent poster.

Thanks for the confirmation, Brad - both of his identity and you're being the kind of asshole who perceives him as being a good guy.

2013/01/16 11:13:38 UTC - 3 thumbs up - Jim Rowan

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27757
Tow Session and AT Clinic.....Anyone?

John Fritsche - 2012/12/15 23:54:08 UTC

I've actually got about fifty ATs, but it's been about fifteen years since my last one, and I know a few things regarding releases and best techniques have changed since then.

No shit John.

- The tug end weak link has been dumbed down from...

http://ozreport.com/5.126
Flytec Dragonfly

USAFlytec - 2001/07/14

Steve Kroop - Russell Brown - Bob Lane - Jim Prahl - Campbell Bowen

The force required to cause a breakaway is roughly equivalent to the force required to break the double weaklink used on the tail bridle.

...four to...

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3600
Weak link question

Jim Rooney - 2008/11/24 18:54:27 UTC

I'm confused. I never said the tug's ass was endangered. That's why we use 3strand at the tug's end.

...three strand in order to...

Using 4 strand can rip things off (it's happened).

...protect the tow mast breakaway which was designed to break away at a force roughly equivalent to that required to break the four strander used on the tail bridle.

- The FAA now mandates that hang gliders must be towed with the same 0.8 G minimum weak link...

Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06

The FAA has mandated requirements for weak links in FAR 91.309(a)(3) [ref 1] for civil aircraft towing sailplanes, ultralight gliders, and hang gliders in the US.

...that it always has for sailplanes.

- In order to comply with the mandate that we meet the bottom of the legal safe range the Towing Committee has published a fourteen page article in the magazine more than doubling the strength of the single loop of 130 pound Greenspot standard aerotow weak link from its 1998 value of...

Towing Aloft - 1998/01

A common weak link in this case is a loop of 130 lb test braided fishing line or a loop of 205 leech line with an overhand knot in it to weaken it. These weak links break around 120 lbs due to the knots and effect of rings or releases. When placed at the end of a V bridle it gives a tow breaking point of 240 pounds.

...around 120 to...

Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06

When we look at gliders and pilots of more average size, the standard 260 lb. weak link placed on the end of the V-bridle is FAA-legal for most gliders and pilots, and closer to the USHPA nominal 1G recommendation.

...260 pounds.

- It is no longer advisable to...

Towing Aloft - 1998/01

You must make weak links and test them each time you use a new spool of material, even if its breaking strength is labeled.

...bench test weak links because...

Dr. Trisa Tilletti - 2012/06

We could get into details of lab testing weak links and bridles, but this article is already getting long. That would be a good topic for an article in the future. Besides, with our backgrounds in formal research, you and I both know that lab tests may produce results with good internal validity, but are often weak in regard to external validity--meaning lab conditions cannot completely include all the factors and variability that exists in the big, real world.

...with our backgrounds in formal research, you and I both know that lab tests may produce results with good internal validity, but are often weak in regard to external validity - meaning lab conditions cannot completely include all the factors and variability that exists in the big, real world.

- Placing loops of 130 pound Greenspot on BOTH ends of a bridle...

Juan Saa - 2012/10/18 01:19:49 UTC
Boca Raton

The normal braking force in pounds for a weak link is around 180, at least that is the regular weak link line used at most aerotow operations. By adding a second weak link to your bridal you are cutting the load on each link by half, meaning that the weak link will not break at the intended 180 pounds but it will need about 360.

...doubles the towline tension required to actuate your lockout preventer. So ignore the 260 you'll get by bench testing and go with the 720 the pro toads are telling you.

- People still use those stupid releases...

http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14221
Tad's release

John Fritsche - 2008/12/12 05:38:02 UTC

I haven't towed in several years. Do people still use those (IMO, stupid) releases that involve bicycle brakes?

...that involve bicycle brakes and we've got even crappier junk...

Lockout Mountain Flight Park - 2009/07/12

The new GT aerotow release, new as of July 11th 2009, is designed to be used with a V bridle and a 130-pound green stripe Dacron tournament fishing line weak link. At this time it is not recommended to use this release with a higher value weak link. We are confident that with an ultimate load of 130 pounds at the release point, the new GT aerotow release works better than all cable releases that we have experience with.

...from Matt...

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=22540
LMFP release dysfunction

Antoine Saraf - 2011/07/14 08:33:59 UTC

LMFP Release
I sent 3 times this email to fly@hanglide.com without any answer !!! :

Hello

I recently purchased one of your Aerotow Primary Releases for use in aerotowing tandem gliders. We conduct a tandem aerotowing operation just south of Paris, France.

We have been having considerable trouble releasing when the line is under high tension. It takes considerable effort to pull the Rope-Loop release, often requiring two or three violent tugs on the loop. Obviously, this is a considerable safety concern.

...but...

Jim Rooney - 2010/12/16 18:47:05 UTC

A few years ago, I started refusing to tow people with home made gear.
I like the idea of improving gear, but the lack of appreciation for the world they were stepping into didn't sit with me.
For example... flying with the new gear in mid day conditions?
Are you kidding me????

...we're not allowed to fly our own designs because the foremost requirement of towing hardware is that it have a long track record.

- Industry Standard equipment - such as Lauren's, Matt's, and Bart's - is now legal because in 2010 Dr. Trisa Tilletti and his Towing Committee changed the word "Requirements" to "Guidelines".

- By 2011/09 Dr. Trisa Tilletti had discovered and published an article on a Cone of Safety in which it's impossible for a glider to be locked out.

So don't worry any, John. Functional towing equipment really isn't any more important than an HGMA certified glider...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TUGS/message/1149
[TUGS] aerotow instruction was Re: Tug Rates

Tracy Tillman - 2011/02/10 20:08:32 UTC

Anybody who is truly a good pilot, in any form of aviation, knows that the knowledge, skills, and judgement you have in your head, learned from thorough instruction from a good instructor with a good curriculum, are the best pieces of equipment you can fly with. Good equipment is important, the best equipment is a well-trained brain.

...as long as you're truly a good pilot, have a well-trained brain, and don't tow in thermal conditions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC-10
McDonnell Douglas DC-10 - Wikipedia

American Airlines Flight 96

Following the Windsor incident investigation, the NTSB made several recommendations, including repairing the faulty cargo door design to make it impossible for baggage handlers to close the cargo door lever without the locking pins being fully engaged. It was also recommended that vents be installed in the cabin floor so that, in case of an explosive decompression, the pressure difference between the cabin and cargo bay could quickly be equalized without collapsing the cabin floor and damaging critical control systems. Although many carriers voluntarily modified the cargo doors, no airworthiness directive was issued to require reworking of the locking system, due to a gentlemen's agreement between the head of the FAA and McDonnell Douglas. McDonnell Douglas did make modifications to the cargo door, but the basic design remained unchanged and problems persisted.

Turkish Airlines Flight 981

On March 3, 1974, an almost identical cargo door blow-out caused Turkish Airlines Flight 981 to crash into a forest near the town of Ermenonville, France shortly after leaving Paris. All 346 people were killed in one of the deadliest air crashes of all time. Circumstances of this crash were very similar to the previous accident.

An airworthiness directive was issued, and all DC-10s underwent mandatory door modifications. The DC-10 experienced no more major incidents related to its cargo door after FAA-approved changes were made.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27217
Bad Launch!

Ryan Voight - 2012/09/26 14:23:55 UTC

Running to the right = weight shift to the right. It's all about what the glider feels. Running to the right pulls the hang loop to the right, just like when you weight shift at 3,000 ft. Glider doesn't know or care what means you used to pull the hang loop to the right.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28091
Request input on harnesses

Ryan Voight - 2013/01/18 18:27:47 UTC

And the harness, it's the connection between body and wing- all weight shift inputs are transmitted through the harness. A proper fit makes a big difference.

Hey Ryan...

- I'm standing in the control frame. My feet are on the basetube, my hands are holding onto the upper downtube areas, and my butt is hanging back.

- I'm not hooked in - or even wearing a harness - but I'm controlling the glider just fine (monkey barring).

Wanna explain to me how a properly fitting harness makes such a big difference and/or how forces are being transmitted to effect pitch and roll control?

http://www.shga.com/forum/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=3
Sylmar Hang Gliding Association - Safety and Incidents in flight

Posts on Gregory Jones's thread on his 2012/06/29 unhooked launch at Towers:
05

Posts on new SHGA Safety Director Steve Murillo's "Looking for a Safety Mascot" thread:
30

http://www.chgpa.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5659
Preflight people, please?

Danny Brotto - 2012/12/21 13:10:52 UTC

This is a cute video link...

13302
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7395/13626862385_ae79ba296a_o.png

...posted on the ozreport.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLTDPeB55ek


Is it just me or is the gal's helmet not buckled? The straps seem to be blowing in the wind. I'm impressed that it stayed on!

And if it hadn't? What are the probabilities that the:
- flight will terminate in a crash?
- helmet would:
-- come off in a crash?
-- be of any use in a crash?

And, of course, it's perfectly OK that neither of their helmets is a full face.

Preflight people!

- The primary:
-- and "backup" releases are inaccessible pieces of shit with no load capacity.
-- bridle is a skinny piece of shit designed to wrap at the bridle. In lockout simulations it does so over half the time.
- The secondary bridle is a cheap overlength piece of shit with lotsa wrap potential.
- If the secondary bridle wraps the glider driver has no means of releasing it.
- The "backup" release isn't weak link protected. Consequently neither is the glider. And ditto on the tug.
- The primary weak link is heavier than the tug's.
- None of those Quest douchebags has a freaking clue as to the strengths of their weak links or even their purpose.
- They're:
-- telling students that installing weak links on both ends of bridles doubles the towline tension required to blow them
-- towing behind a tug that went out of control and killed a driver at Ridgely a year and a half ago and we still don't have a report

This guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-36aQ3Hg33c


is OK 'cause his full face helmet is buckled, right Danny? As long as he's done a proper preflight on his helmet it's perfectly OK for him to leave the wheels in the closet 'cause he's gonna be good to handle that instant deceleration he's highly likely to experience without them.

How 'bout Keith here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7NurwKyyEE


He's good to run off the Henson ramp because he always preflights his suspension via a hang check with assistance prior to stepping on the ramp and never leaves his harness once he gets in it?

Bill Umstattd - 2012/12/22 01:49:56 UTC
Philadelphia

Dan,

Here's a much better video, if I may say:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIQ-4gdLBs0

Same Industry Standard crap as above.

Kevin Carter - 2012/12/24 03:52:19 UTC

No helmet and going negative in a whip stall. Keepin it classy.

- The one closest to the ground has a helmet. The one closest to the keel doesn't.
- How 'bout the towing equipment, Kevin? People have died using and because of that crap.

Matthew Graham - 2012/12/24 05:02:16 UTC
Takoma Park

What a bunch of freakin' yahoos! Florida Ridge has lost a future customer.

But your loyalty to the douchebags at Ridgely and Manquin will be undying - regardless of how many people their incompetence, negligence, and stupidity crash, mangle, and kill.

Danny Brotto - 2012/12/24 05:02:16 UTC

I know that I'm "old school"...

Yeah. Fly with whatever crap you feel like. Make sure that your brake lever is securely velcroed to the downtube, bent pin release is fully closed, and standard aerotow weak link isn't too fuzzed. As long as you've preflighted it you're good to go.

...but watching that just makes me sad.

Me too Danny. Keep up the good fight. No telling how many lives you could save by getting people to make sure their helmets are buckled.
Fuck you and the rest of all you CHPA/MHGA/Ridgely/Manquin wastes of space.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Xc5L5PFxGk
Hang Gliding in Ecuador

Andrew Stakhov - 2010/11/18
Toronto

My trip hang gliding in Ecuador. If you're interested in trying contact this guy:

http://www.gravitysports.ca/
Paragliding and powered paragliding training in Ontario

Yeah Andrew, let's contact this guy:

FLY GRAVITY SPORTS: YOUR ADVENTURE SOLUTION.

We are an adventure tour company and hang gliding school. We offer you a variety of ways to enjoy the freedom of flight like never before with tandem discovery flights, guided hang gliding tours, and instruction in British Columbia, Mexico and Ecuador. Experience the beautiful and breathtaking countryside as you soar in tandem or fly solo over patched landscapes and untouched mountain ranges.

Yeah, let's go down to Ecuador and soar over untouched mountain ranges...

2:20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Xc5L5PFxGk

05-C-15216
http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48920171736_22ccfa8bbb_o.png

06-C-22317
http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48920171651_fec3e87cfb_o.png


...and use them as garbage dumps for our fucking twelve ounce plastic water bottles.

n8tureboy

Hahahahaha!
Dude I saw ya' drop the bomb! That was funny!
Great video BTW. Really cool footage.

Yeah Nature Boy, that was hysterical! Asshole.

Hang gliding people - as a general rule of thumb - are SCUM.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=27396
Scooter tow faillure... or Never Land On Your Face

Brad Barkley - 2012/10/22 22:00:18 UTC

There is always the "two point, three point" confusion in every thread of this type.

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=28145
Instrument pod orientation

Brad Barkley - 2013/01/24 14:14:35 UTC

Yeah, I am using a 3-point bridle, so that's the worry.

The confusion you experience, Brad, stems not from terminology but rather from the fact that you are a complete imbecile and that is in addition to you being a total asshole.

Brad Barkley and hang gliding, a perfect match.