Kite Strings

Tad Eareckson wrote:http://ozreport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7671
Gallery Of Pain

Hghg - 2012/04/03 11:38:13 UTC

ouch

http://i.imgur.com/tt379.jpg

Christopher LeFay - 2012/04/03 12:17:11 UTC

Any word on what contributed to the lockout? The valley frequently features sketchy conditions for towing low over trees - sucky place for a tow program; still, if you consider the number of tow flights, there are remarkably few accidents of this sort...

Ones that you hear about anyway.

It is absolutely ASTOUNDING that something like that can happen and that post from Christopher is everything we know about it.

The accident was Pete and a student and it occurred, I believe, on April 2nd. According to Pete, his student began PIOing almost right from lift off. Pete was telling the student what to do but his inputs were entirely the opposite and then the student completely locked-up on the base tube. Heading for a lockout Dave gave them the rope as Pete simulatneously disconnected. Pete told me he had to physically climb on the down tube to affect any control whatsoever. He did finally wrest control of the glider from the student but at that point they were close to the trees near Roddy's house. Once in control and even knowing at that point they were heading for a crash Pete said he felt very relieved. He righted the glider and steered into nicest looking tree crown he could find and flared right into the top. The impact was surprisingly gentle and they and the glider slid to the ground. Save a small cut on Pete's face, neither was injured.

Pete's a pretty mellow guy and didn't seem at all rattled by the expereince and was out flying the next day. I don't know who the student was or how far along he was in his training but, to the best of my knowledge, he hasn't been seen since the accident.

I checked with my sources and was able to get a report.

Bob Flynn - 2011/02/04 11:26:34 UTC
Jacksonville, North Carolina

Lookout keeps this kind of stuff under their hat. You never hear of accidents there. But every time I go there, I hear about quite a few. Blown launches, tree landings, etc.

Judy Phillips - 2007/11/12 22:18:31 UTC

Yeah... it scared me soooo bad that on Sunday all I could do on the hill was cry, because the thought of running down the hill even scared me.

David W. Johnson - 2007/11/05 00:57:23 UTC
Huntsville, Alabama

My fourteen year old daughter's first mountain launch went wrong. I got to watch her fall forty feet into the trees.

As to the problem: she tried to take the launch back after starting, pushed out to a stall and parachuted down to the trees. Nobody knew she was that nervous.

miguel - 2012/04/18 21:37:30 UTC

He is upright, uptight and scared...

Tad Eareckson - 2012/04/19 06:13:25 UTC

Bloody right he is.

Matt wants him scared as much as possible so he can extend the "training" period as long as possible and fuck him over for as many bucks as possible.

Pete's a pretty mellow guy and didn't seem at all rattled by the experience and was out flying the next day. I don't know who the student was or how far along he was in his training but, to the best of my knowledge, he hasn't been seen since the accident.

Al Hernandez - 2011/10/07 07:32:23 UTC

I got a call from Jeff Hunt in the morning to be out at Packsaddle Mountain to get a high flight later that evening, and he wanted me there at 5 pm on Monday (2011/10/03). The thought of a high flight was kind of a shock, since I haven't flown altitude since last year, so fear and confusion was doing the Macarena in my head.

Last year my high flights didn't go that well, I remember that I was doing a winch tow tandem with Jack Walters in Hearne. Our first flight on a Falcon 2 Tandem, the glider started to pop back and forth, I was about to ask Jack what the hell is going on? Before I asked the weak link broke, I pulled in as the glider's nosed went down towards the Earth, it kept flying though. I told Jack, "I am going to put it in the grass this time." I made a left turn to the grassy area, at fifty feet. The left wing just dropped. I thought that was the end of time for us. I yelled at Jack, "Take over." As I moved my hands from the control bar Jack pulled it in, picked up speed, got it flying again, and landed right after that.

All this was crossing my mind. The time when I didn't know how to fly a glider and got up to altitude and didn't know what I was doing. I had an idea but that wasn't going to do the trick. I flew it but didn't know how to land or I forgot about landing and busted my left leg. Then the thought the thought of how a thermal almost flipped me over crossed my mind.

I didn't show up on Monday. I wasn't sure I was ready for a high flight just yet. Later that night I got a call from Jeff, I didn't want to pick up the phone cause I knew what I was going to hear. I did answer the phone, sure enough, the first thing I hear, "What happened, Al? You were suppose to be here. I have your glider on my truck. Get your butt here tomorrow or find someone else to teach you." I told him, "Fine fine fine! I will be there for sure. See you on Tuesday at Pack."

I didn't sleep that night, trying to remember how to turn a glider, the inputs, plus I had not flown in a month or better. I tossed and turned in my bed that night, this will be my last day on Earth, next morning 5:30 am. I took my wife to work dropped her off and told her that I loved her and gave her a goodbye kiss. I didn't tell her where I was going.

It was still dark all around as I drove myself to the location. I kept thinking I am driving to my funeral, this will be the day that I die.

I got there, Jeff and another guy was waiting for me on the LZ the time about 8 am. I was feeling anxiety, not so much of flying the glider, but the turns, the turns, this is what I was worried about this was the part that was going to kill me. I have had payout winch tows, scooter tows, flying straight patterns and I do fine with this kind of flying, but a mountain I had never flown and had just been flying off a small hill in Austin with no turns. I was going to have to make turns to keep my butt alive. The only turns I had made were with Jack Walters last year on that tandem flight. I did not remember how to turn, I knew what the book said but I had not done it on my own on a solo flight.

The drive up the hill was killing me, as we were going up the rocky road to the top of Pack. I felt like I was going to puke. My turn was up the sand of time for me was running low, time to nut up, or shut up. Jeff had a big smile on his face watching me change colors from Brown to White. "You feeling alright Al?" as he drove up the mountain. Yeah, yeah, I replied. If I was going to back out of this one, he later said, he was going to kick my ass off that mountain one way or the other.

At the launch, I could see the little cows on the fields below. They looked like little black spots on the grass. More anxiety set in.

I had not launched yet because I was having an anxiety attack at the time. I could hear Jeffo saying "Inhale, exhale. You feel better now, Al?"

Tad Eareckson wrote:How much did it set you back?

Tad Eareckson wrote:Matt wants him scared as much as possible so he can extend the "training" period as long as possible and fuck him over for as many bucks as possible.

Actually, I think I did them a favor.

...some much worse than the reality.

1991/12/15 - Michael Elliot - 27 - Novice - Pacific Airwave Double Vision - Lookout Mountain Flight Park

Novice pilot went tandem with experienced tandem pilot (Bo Hagewood) in preparation for first solo altitude flight. On the base leg of the landing approach, flying crosswind over tree line, the attempt to turn onto final was unsuccessful. The inability to turn onto final may have been caused by thermal activity, the passenger interfering with glider control, or both. The glider continued straight, hit a tree, and side slipped 60 feet. The novice passenger died, the tandem pilot was seriously injured.

Lockout Mountain Flight Park - 2012/04/24

Tandem Flights

What is your safety record? LMFP flies thousands of tandems every year without incident. Our tandem pilots have hundreds of hours (that's a lot in non motorized flight) before they ever fly their first tandem, and tandem pilots go through a rigorous training program before they are ever rated to fly a tandem with you. We have not had an injury in our tandem program for 20 years.

LMFP flies thousands of tandems every year without incident (and about twenty or thirty that end up in the trees that nobody ever hears about).

Our tandem pilots have hundreds of hours (that's a lot in non motorized flight) before they ever fly their first tandem, and tandem pilots go through a rigorous training program before they are ever rated to fly a tandem with you (which now includes two full days of classroom and flight instruction to emphasize that the turn onto final MUST be initiated ABOVE treetop level).

We have not had an injury in our tandem program for twenty years (but...

Lookout Mountain Flight Park (LMFP) has been in operation for over thirty years...

...and that first decade was a real bloodbath.

If you really believe that, you're more cynical than I thought.

How exactly is scaring students going to make them money?

Hang Gliding - 2004/10

Christian Thoreson

Thus wheel landings, the safest and easiest way to consistently land a hang glider...
-
Christian Thoreson has been actively flying hang gliders since 1979 and has been the flight school director at Lookout Mountain Flight Park since 1990.

The new GT aerotow release, new as of July 11th 2009, is designed to be used with a V bridle and a 130-pound green stripe Dacron tournament fishing line weak link. At this time it is not recommended to use this release with a higher value weak link. We are confident that with an ultimate load of 130 pounds at the release point, the new GT aerotow release works better than all cable releases that we have experience with.

Lookout makes their money from students by selling them equipment.

Lockout Mountain Flight Park - 2008/08/10

Safety Advisory

Advisory Release from Lookout Mountain Flight Park

1. Please check with Matt or an instructor before customizing any of your equipment. There may be unforeseen hazards associated with your customization. This is especially true with most aerotowing equipment. Keep in mind that aerotowing, while very easy and simple, is less forgiving when a major problem occurs.

2. It is unacceptable to fly hang gliders if you are taking any medication that would impair your cognitive skills or your sensory perception. If you are having medical problems that cause the same effect, you should not fly hang gliders until the problem is gone and you are cleared by a doctor to fly.

3. LMFP recommends that solo high altitude pilots use a good, full face helmet. Modern helmet technology has improved greatly over the past decade. If you are flying at high altitude, and are not flying tandem where communication is a priority, than there is little reason to not fly with a high caliber helmet.

Please check with Matt or an instructor before customizing any of your equipment.

Ralph Sickinger - 2000/08/26 22:18:20 UTC

Under sled conditions, I decided to borrow Brian Vant-Hull's glider instead of setting up my own, since we both fly the same type of glider. Brian's release is a different style, but I tested it twice during preflight to make sure I was familiar with it. After towing to altitude, Sunny waved me off; I pulled on the release (hard), but nothing happened! After the second failed attempt to release, I thought about releasing from the secondary, but before I could move my hand the tug stalled and started to fall; Sunny had no choice but to gun the engine in attempt to regain flying speed, but this resulted in a sudden and severe pull on the harness and glider; I was only able to pull on the release again, while simultaneously praying for the weak link to break. The release finally opened, and I was free of the tug.

Brian Vant-Hull - 2000/08/28 22:49:13 UTC

I purchased my release (the one Ralph used) at Lookout Mountain over a year ago, but never had any problems until the Ridgely Fly-In, where the same thing happened. I pulled three or four times on the release, then finally went to the secondary, by which time I was high above the tug and Sunny (is there a connection here?) was frantically waving me off.

Brian Vant-Hull - 2000/09/06

We instead retied the attachment point so it pulls only slightly asymmetrical from the hinge. I'd like a little more asymmetry than I've got, and would be happy to look at other people's attachment techniques.

There may be unforeseen hazards associated with your customization.

There is no product liability insurance covering this gear and we do not warrant this gear as suitable for towing anything.

This is especially true with most aerotowing equipment.

Keep in mind that aerotowing, while very easy and simple, is less forgiving when a major problem occurs.

It is unacceptable to fly hang gliders if you are taking any medication that would impair your cognitive skills or your sensory perception.

Judy Phillips - 2007/11/12 22:00:48 UTC

Now, Lauren was waiting for me to get ready to land as she was going to yell "flare" if it looked as though it would be possible. So after coming out to trim and moving my hands in position to flare she yells, as my wings are level at this time. So, I start to do it. I got my hands up but hadn't completely locked my elbows, when I zoomed!

LMFP recommends that solo high altitude pilots use a good, full face helmet.

The novice passenger died, the tandem pilot was seriously injured.

Tad Eareckson wrote:It prolongs the period of dependency.

Tad Eareckson wrote:So what's YOUR explanation as to why every trace of that message was totally wiped from the program?

That still doesn't answer how it makes them money.

On any day with a lot of people flying you'll see a few come down on wheels (intentionally) out there.

Students at the hills wheel land on their first flights.

Their tandems only land on wheels.

Students who only do aerotow training land on wheels throughout their training as well as when they start soloing.

I suspect, but cannot confirm, that they will sign off H2s at the hills without demonstrating foot landings if the student has some kind of limitation that precludes foot landing.

NMERider - 2012/03/14 15:17:14 UTC

I refuse to come in with both hands on the downtubes ever again.

Davis Straub - 2012/04/17 12:19:33 UTC

He stated that if things got dicey on landing he stayed on the basetube and landed on his wheels.

Zack C - 2012/04/24 03:41:37 UTC

Lookout makes their money from students by selling them equipment.

When I was a new H2 there, I landed on my wheels a number of times when I didn't think things were going well for foot landing.

Judy Phillips - 2007/11/12 22:00:48 UTC

Since I was already off target and was having trouble finding it again, I decided the best thing I could do was to just try and keep my wings as level as possible and just wheel it in.

Now, Lauren was waiting for me to get ready to land as she was going to yell "flare" if it looked as though it would be possible.

So after coming out to trim and moving my hands in position to flare, she yells, as my wings are level at this time. So, I start to do it. I got my hands up but hadn't completely locked my elbows, when I zoomed!

I've said this before, but I think the reason they push foot landings at the hills is it's a difficult...

...skill...

...to learn...

...and there's no better place to...

...learn it than under constant coaching and supervision.

Tad Eareckson wrote:More lessons, ATV retrieves, trips to Lookout, camping fees, hanging out at the shop, "I-Survived-Lookout-2012!" T-shirts, great public relations with the town of Trenton and its businesses.

Tad Eareckson wrote:Are these people doing this because they were trained to or because they're capable of thinking for themselves enough to override their training?

Tad Eareckson wrote:

Zack C wrote:When I was a new H2 there, I landed on my wheels a number of times when I didn't think things were going well for foot landing.

Yeah? Was that something you picked up in...or despite your training?

Tad Eareckson wrote:Relative to the one for the no stepper crowd, how big is the cheering section for the perfect wheel landers?

Tad Eareckson wrote:

Zack C wrote:Students who only do aerotow training land on wheels throughout their training as well as when they start soloing.

So then what's the justification for forcing their terrified training hill graduates...to stay upright...

Tad Eareckson wrote:NOTHING you've said is clear indication that Lookout students are being taught to consider the wheel landings as the best safest option for virtually all landings and the standup as mostly unnecessary and risky emergency procedure.

Tad Eareckson wrote:How well had you been trained - by Lookout or anyone else - to handle the approach and landing at the Valle de Bravo LZ on 2009/01/13?

Wouldn't those things also apply if they spent more time adequately preparing them so they wouldn't be scared?

I know I was told that it was perfectly OK to wheel land on a mowed field like Lookout's LZ.

But you do sometimes hear one guy say to another (when conditions are dicey) something along the lines of, 'That was the smart thing to do.'

They didn't care because I was already experienced flying prone.

Well, yeah, but I was responding to your assertion...

I don't see the relevancy.

...only that they're not at sleazy as you perceive.