Surface tow, foot launch release opinions.

General discussion about the sport of hang gliding
MikeLake
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Re: Surface tow, foot launch release opinions.

Post by MikeLake »

llwest@comcast.net wrote:Who makes something like the Koch release here in the states? I looked online and couldn't find any new Kochs, only used old Kochs.
(This is too funny)
There is a guy, not a million miles away, who I bet could take the basic principle, make it about a quarter size, slim down the profile and mount it tight and neat on some padded webbing.
Cover this after release with a velcroed on flap and you fix all the 'chest crusher' draggy, clunky chunkiness in one go.
llwest@comcast.net
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Re: Surface tow, foot launch release opinions.

Post by llwest@comcast.net »

lol....hmmmm...and that guy would be???
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Surface tow, foot launch release opinions.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Mike,
I would consider foot launching with a static winch to be about on par with foot launching down a hill, with the same problems stalling, tripping, dropping a wing etc.
EXACTLY. And let's not forget failing to hook in - à la John Shook, Bille Floyd, and Martin Apopot. And ya also gotta throw dragging into the equation. Check out the account Gregg references in the fifth post of this thread. Getting a bit iffy there. And if you go all the way, like Justin Needham did, it ain't pretty even on grass.

I was BADLY hurt at the Woodstock slot close to nineteen years ago 'cause I failed to note that the air that had been trickling in while everybody else was running off for evening sleds had just switched to katabatic (although, granted, there tend not to be huge oak logs concealed in bushes in tow launch environments).

I don't know what, if anything, you've had in the way of platform launch experience and I myself haven't had much and not for a very long time but it's always seemed and felt EXTREMELY idiot resistant - just my cup o' tea.
There is quite a difference at launch time between the short line on a payout system and the very long line on a pull-in system. Bad things don't happen quite so quickly.
I don't know of any great examples of bad things happening quickly on payout. Yeah, there's always the possibility of the winch locking up right after you come off but you're still not screwed if you're reasonably level and have crisp airspeed which - almost by definition right after launch when things are most critical - you are and do.
The biggest problem I see is a pilot lunging into prone before the glider is fully ready to fly. This is normally followed by an uncomfortable take off with the pilot now thankful for the BHPA's no wheels no fly policy.
Big Brother DOES come in handy sometimes. How I would love to see competitions run so that pilots who fly with wheels aren't punished for it.

The pilot who blows his foot launch and uneventfully bounces back into the air off of his wheels has just, effectively, done a dolly launch. Terrain permitting, why not just start him out that way and eliminate the potential for excitement?
A pilot can also keep on the uprights as long as he wants...
For me that's never.
Also pilot preference should not be ignored.
I dunno. On 2005/01/09 Robin Strid insisted - with some justification 'cause the carts were crappy (which they shouldn't have been) - on foot launching. I'm pretty sure he was the only person to foot launch that day (possibly the only one that competition) and I'm positive he was the only person killed. And even with his shit rigged release locking up in a manner VERY analogous to Shane's, if he had crappy dolly launched he'd have almost certainly climbed to a safe altitude and come back down safely with the rope.

People should be provided safe dollies - and if that's the case - my feeling is that there oughta be something more substantive than pilots' preferences before safety margins are cut into. I could even accept speed and/or convenience as a valid reason but it oughta be better than "I don't like carts." or "I don't feel like it."

Do check out the video of Zack's he references in:

http://www.kitestrings.org/post14.html#p14

And, as Zack has heard me say MANY times, we can totally eliminate the John Shooks, Bille Floyds, and Martin Apopots from the foot launch tow equation if we adopt a double lift and tug as THE signal from the pilot to the driver that he's hooked in and it's OK to hit the gas.
...a sh** rig release (that term is quickly becoming a standard)...
Excellent. I've been fighting for standards in hang glider towing for years. I don't really have a problem with Jim Rooney personally using a shit rigged bent pin release - just him advertising it to other people as "very very reliable".
A brain wave controlled two stage release sounds a good idea but this would require some brain waves to operate. I would guess this might shorten your list of possible candidates.
Quite the contrary. Ya always gotta be looking at the big picture. I'm ALWAYS thinking gene pool.

Larry,
Who makes something like the Koch release here in the states?
Mike Robertson used to (Ontario - that's almost the states) but I'm not seeing anything now.
(This is too funny.)
IT'S PRONOUNCED "COKE".
There is a guy...
While he's doing all that pay him an extra thirty bucks/pounds to run a wire off of it and up to your teeth so you can blow both stages with your hands on the downtubes.
Zack C
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Re: Surface tow, foot launch release opinions.

Post by Zack C »

Tad, can your single-point four-string mouth release be used for foot launching?

Columbus airport management blames any broken runway lights on us (I think we've broken one in the past but paid to replace it and since took precautions to prevent it). Last weekend we were told we could no longer dolly launch off the runway because of this. We can dolly launch off the grass when it's mowed and dry, but it turns into a swamp when it rains. For now our only option for launching off the runway is on foot (not crazy about that, especially over pavement). I can't really do this with my Lookout release and really have no interest in doing it unless I can use a release that doesn't require taking a hand off the controls.

So, this discussion about tow launch methods is timely for me. Some of our guys are from the UK and think foot launch towing is no big deal, and that it's equally safe, just different...after all, it's how it's done in some parts of the world. (Of course 'pro-towing' and 130 lb weak links are how it's done here...) I wrote a lengthy email explaining why I felt foot launch towing was more dangerous. The gist of it was:

1. I'm not aware of any way to foot launch tow without having to take a hand off the bar to release (the biggest issue for me...I think you're a lot more likely to need the release near the ground when foot launching).
2. Hang gliders are harder to control on tow (the roll instability thing). I'd rather not combine that with the more limited control I have on the ground, or the complete lack of control I have transitioning hands (which has to be done near the ground when aerotowing so you can pull in).
3. Foot launch towing is less crosswind-tolerant.
3. My first exposure to foot launch towing was about 1.5 years ago. Since then I've seen far fewer foot launch tow launches than dolly or platform launches, but I've seen several scary situations near the ground with foot launch tows (the video Tad references is one of them). In the same period I've seen NONE with dolly or platform launches (actually, I don't think I've ever seen ANY with dolly or platform launches - not low enough that the launch method would matter).
4. As Tad mentioned, it's possible to foot launch tow with the pilot unhooked from the glider.

Not surprisingly, I got no responses (too many paragraphs...).
MikeLake wrote:There is quite a difference at launch time between the short line on a payout system and the very long line on a pull-in system.
I've heard it said that since payout winches keep a constant tension the line is effectively of infinite length. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but in my experience initial line length on a payout winch doesn't seem to make much difference. And (when foot launching) you can lay out as much line as you want. But I'm sure you have a LOT more experience than me in both methods.

As for platform launching, I was nervous about it when I started doing it. It looked iffy, like things could get bad fast. I've since logged around 100 platform launches and have seen hundreds more. Never once was there any issue. I now feel platform launching is the safest way to get a hang glider into the air (in the widest range of conditions). You get away from the ground very quickly and don't launch until you have plenty of airspeed and excellent control. But equipment is more critical (like, you don't want your nose line to release early).

I had a change of heart about platform launching so maybe with more experience I'll change my mind about foot launch towing as well. But I'm doubtful...the reason I love platform launching is because it's the antithesis of foot launching.
Tad Eareckson wrote:There's no great excuse for hitting the full dump / stage two paddle instead of the stage one....Take your time and do it carefully
I think I'd want to minimize the amount of time I had my hand off the bar in rowdy conditions. And those paddles are mighty close.

Zack
llwest@comcast.net
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Re: Surface tow, foot launch release idea (attempt at humor)

Post by llwest@comcast.net »

I'm thinking of either buttons on the fingers, bite switches, and as a last resort, some sort of "anal squeeze" tool we insert before launch and "clench" for each stage of release.

Butt seriously, I don't enjoy putting things in my mouth but do feel comfortable pushing buttons on my fingers, but all the actuators and power and stuff sounds more prone to failure than either a pneumatic or hydraulic actuator you bite down on.
MikeLake
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Re: Surface tow, foot launch release opinions.

Post by MikeLake »

Thanks for the welcome by the way.
I don't know what, if anything, you've had in the way of platform launch experience and I myself haven't had much and not for a very long time but it's always seemed and felt EXTREMELY idiot resistant - just my cup o' tea.
People should be provided safe dollies - and if that's the case - my feeling is that there oughta be something more substantive than pilots' preferences before safety margins are cut into. I could even accept speed and/or convenience as a valid reason but it oughta be better than "I don't like carts." or "I don't feel like it.
By platform I assume you mean any wheeled takeoff (?)
Our club has a T/O trolley that works fine, but it never gets used. This is a preference thing, but not in a whimsical way.
For practical purposed it slows down the entire operation and is just too much hassle.
On anything but a nil wind day foot T/Os are never an effort or an issue.

Slightly more whimsical is the preference for foot launching a foot launch glider.
I have no experience with wheeled launches but I can see this is safer than foot launching, but it's not foot launching.
I think it's a case of where to draw the line and this line drawing issue is going to come up time and time again.
When I drive my motorbike and I am not in a hurry I could trundle along at a comparatively safe 20mph but I prefer to go something closer to the speed limit.
I know for sure that this is a more dangerous option.
That is if I still had a motorbike and was able to still drive such a thing. (And yes I have crashed in the past.)

Also you have to consider the whole foot launch package.
I just don't know what others do and would love some details of other systems. (I don't think I will be asking the Oz Report.)
For us, besides the pilots, there are always at least ...

A trained tow coach, he runs the day. (He may also be one of the following.)
A trained winch-man and a trained launch marshal.
The latter two communicate with Walky-talkies.

The launch marshal double checks all the pilot pre-flight procedures, including clipping in, oversees the launch and will call abort if the pilot is dragged down the runway. This takes care of most pre launch stuff and due to the strict procedures in place it is, without a doubt, safer at this point than hill launching.

Once launched line tensions do not have to be that high, there is no need to be going up like a rocket or to drop prone until the pilot is comfortable. When all is steady the pilot goes prone, the winch-man backs off a bit, the pilot pulls in a bit and if he is happy he makes the first release (sometimes he will go prone after this point).
Double releases DO happen but the pilot is in control and is prepared for it.
This is solved, as Tad said, by taking a bit of care, there is no hurry.
Launch can normally be described as tranquil.

Other factors that might favour foot launching (here) are the grass runways and the temperate climate. Certainly concrete runways can be a fair deterrent.
-------
I don't know of any great examples of bad things happening quickly on payout.
I agree, this was a relative term and I was referring to the speed in which things can get out of line. A short line can get 45 degree off to one side much much quicker than a very very long line and the transition between the horizontal line pull at T/O (line over) and the climb out (line under) happens at a much more a pedestrian pace on a long line.
-------
While he's doing all that pay him an extra thirty bucks/pounds to run a wire off of it and up to your teeth so you can blow both stages with your hands on the downtubes.
I'll send on the 30 bucks then.

P.S.

The later the day the more typos, sorry.
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Surface tow, foot launch release opinions.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

Zack,
Tad, can your single-point four-string mouth release be used for foot launching?
I wouldn't recommend it - especially not the way I do my Four-Strings. It's a totally awesome release and I adore it but...

I optimize and adjust it for the individual - it's a one time deal but it's something of a bitch.

You want the Clamcleat directly under the pilot's teeth and the Trigger Line length such that the pilot can adequately turn his head to look around but no more. And when the pilot's towing there's a lot of pull on the harness so you've pretty much gotta stick him in the air with it once to see how it feels. And if the Trigger length is wrong I've gotta swap in another unit 'cause that length determines the construction of the entire assembly. So I can't really do this long distance very easily.

(Just for reference in case anyone wants to experiment... Have the pilot hold the end of the Trigger Line lightly between his lips prior to and during launch. That way if it's too short the line is pulled away without arming or blowing the release.)

The upside is that normally you just hold the Trigger in your teeth to about two hundred feet then spit it out. If you're low and things start getting iffy you tilt your head back to disengage the Trigger Line from the Clamcleat and arm it. Now all you gotta do is relax your bite and you're off. But if you get things back under control you're stuck with holding it in your teeth all the way up. (In an OFF NOW situation you'd just tug and leggo.)

If you used this for a standing launch the geometry would go to hell with the tow tension pulling your shoulder straps out away from your body when the tug started rolling.

A better option would be the:

Barrel Release - Remote
http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8312402264/
Image

Not quite as cool but perfectly effective and a no brainer to set anybody up with 'cause there's absolutely nothing critical about the lanyard length. But you'd still have issues at launch and this wouldn't be a great idea either.

You'd really hafta go with something cable actuated like the Russians have or Paul Farina has done. And in any case my two are useless if you wanna tow two point.
Last weekend we were told we could no longer dolly launch off the runway because of this.
That's totally despicable. What those sonsabitches are saying is that they're more concerned about one of their lights maybe getting broken than one of your necks probably getting broken. It's a public airport, I'm guessing it gets federal funding, maybe you've got some avenue of recourse - in the absence of any vestige of decency.
The gist of it was...
And don't forget that you're towing from your armpits with your harness up around your chin until/unless you can kick into the boot.

This is insane. When Ridgely was at about the fifty thousand tow point I asked Sunny what percentage of them were foot launch. He just laughed imagining the carnage. I think they had had one or two (flights - not percent).

And combine foot launch with 130 pound Greenspot... Do me a favor and keep a couple of cameras rolling at all times.
I've heard it said that since payout winches keep a constant tension the line is effectively of infinite length. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but in my experience initial line length on a payout winch doesn't seem to make much difference.
It's not, not much, and not much. Yeah, it's nice to have a lot of line out when shit's hitting the fan but on payout you tend to be pulling line out when shit's hitting the fan and that's reasonably nice.

A lot of this terror of platform launching stems from Donnell's sound-great-until-you-think-about-them Skyting theory assumptions. If they were the tiniest bit valid we would no more be capable of aerotowing the way we do than bumblebees would be capable of attaining flight.

The first of Donnell's Criteria is that:
The direction of the towing force must remain essentially constant throughout every phase of the towed flight.
the assumptions being that:

- a glider on tow is incapable of being maneuvered by its pilot

- the glider won't be turned away from the direction of tow by turbulence (inconveniences like thermals never figured into Donnell's vector diagrams)

- there can be no value in a driver maneuvering in front of the glider - somehow turned, impossibly, off line - to help it out

His primary weapon for attaining Constant Direction is a towline - nylon, to keep the tension "constant" so's you don't hafta spring for a winch - of infinite length. And he goes on for years contradicting himself all over the place about what a safe infinite length actually is. (It seems to get a lot shorter for student pilots - the opposite of what one would predict.)

Peter Birren reveres Donnell as a god, starts controlling towing in the Chicago area, himself gets revered as a god for solving all of mankind's problems with his invention of the Linknife, and predicts that all manner of death and destruction will arise from platform launching.

He has to wait twenty years for somebody to give him a lockout he can twist into something resembling ammunition but John Woiwode finally comes through, doing something of a level of stupidity unrivaled in the history of towing until Shane Smith hooks up his bridle through a weak link. And then he has an absolute field day.
I now feel platform launching is the safest way to get a hang glider into the air (in the widest range of conditions).
My two point aerotow release / bridle / weak link system is bulletproof. But I still think/agree that - even with the serious limitations of available releases - platform launching is still the safest way to get into the air - including free flight options. (And a couple of other advantages it has are that there's only one weak link in the system - under control of the pilot - and it's a lot harder for the driver to help you out by dumping the towline.)
I think I'd want to minimize the amount of time I had my hand off the bar in rowdy conditions. And those paddles are mighty close.
But:

- You are, by definition, doing it:
-- a long ways from the ground
-- when there's no shit hitting any fans

- There's a very wide window available for doing it.

- The penalty for:

-- not doing it in a timely manner is climb limitation, not instant death.

-- screwing it up is you're off tow. The only times the penalty for being off tow is more serious than being on tow is when you're relatively low and standing on your tail or rolled and stalling. If you're in either of those situations you're not gonna be trying to trip Stage One.

- If conditions are rowdy and you're starting to get kicked when you're reaching for Stage One then put your hand back on the basetube and give it another shot five seconds later.

Larry,
Butt seriously, I don't enjoy putting things in my mouth but do feel comfortable pushing buttons on my fingers, but all the actuators and power and stuff sounds more prone to failure than either a pneumatic or hydraulic actuator you bite down on.
- Soarmaster and Mosquito jockeys have been putting things in their mouths just fine since well back into the Seventies.

- The Russians, Steve Kinsley, Yours Truly, and Craig Stanley just LOVE putting things in their mouths.

- If you don't enjoy having things in your mouth just spit them out at two hundred feet.

- Buttons on fingers can be problematic if you're shifting your hands from down to base tubes during critical stages of tow.

- Just 'cause something SOUNDS prone to failure doesn't mean it IS prone to failure. There's a lotta very complex and critical stuff on passenger and military jets that sounds very scary but performs very well.

- Hang glider parachutes ARE VERY prone to failure. But somebody with a snapped outboard leading edge section is NEVER gonna regret at least having a shot at getting something clear and inflated before it gets eaten up.

- None of the emergency actuation modes takes the normal actuation mode off the table.

- Pneumatic ain't gonna do it - except as a trigger for something with enough oomph to make it happen.

- Hydraulic could work.

- But I think that electric with solenoids is the way to go. Note that jets have gone from hydraulic to fly by wire.

Mike,
By platform I assume you mean any wheeled takeoff (?)
No. Similar benefits but...

By platform I mean off the back of a boat, truck, or trailer. The front end guy controls the direction and the tow angle is down and constant - thus eliminating the need for a two stage.

Dolly, cart - synonyms.

- Remote from the front end of the towline.

- Just pretend directional control - good enough just about all the time at an airport, no freakin' way on a crowned road.

- Tow angle constant and straight ahead for aero - which makes release design REAL EASY - and constantly increasing for a while from straight ahead to really steep for surface - which makes two stage necessary and release design a real bitch.

Most tandem aerotow gliders have built in dollies that go up and come down with them.

When I say "payout" I'm usually thinking and meaning platform - although people using stationary winches in high winds and/or for step towing are also doing payout.

And another flavor of wheeled takeoff would be a glider with regular (non castering) wheels launching prone with a keel runner.

Regarding your dolly/trolley gathering dust in the shed...

Hassle, slowed operation, preference for foot launching... Yeah, those are all perfectly legitimate reasons for eschewing the thing. And the more competent and careful your pilots and crew the less of a factor it becomes.

But lemme throw out a few things that may weigh on our perspectives...

You're at a WAY higher latitude than I am and a WAY WAY higher latitude than Zack and Larry. And Larry lives in a state the name of whose English translation is "Dry Zone" and he starts out a mile higher than we other three do.

I don't know what conditions are usually like in your neck of the woods but even here where I've done most of my flying - Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia - dust devils are not all that uncommon. I've had my glider hit by them on the ground - fortunately when I've been there or within real close dashing distance - at least twice.

Ridgely is a high volume operation. On a good weekend day in the summer the launch line never disappears. There are two tugs, four dollies, several golf carts, and gliders launch every three or four minutes. As soon as a glider separates from a dolly there's a golf cart chasing it. It gets lassoed by somebody with a hook on the end of a pole and immediately delivered to the foremost person in line without one.

Fairly strong cross and tail winds are total non issues. We build up really good airspeed and really scary groundspeed before committing to aviation. (Lemme use present tense 'cause it's easier.) I come off the dolly a little earlier than I'd really like to in order to make things a little easier for the recovery crew. (You're welcome, motherfuckers.) And I'm usually thinking, "Thank GAWD I'm not running right now."

Despite the high volume, often potentially dangerous conditions, total shit rigged releases, sloppy dolly maintenance (flat tires ALL the time), and clueless tug and glider drivers the ONLY - and I mean ONLY - crashes at launch arise as a consequence of 130 pound Greenspot. I one hundred percent guarantee you that if you duplicated that operation foot launch only it would be a bloodbath - people WOULD die.
Once launched line tensions do not have to be that high, there is no need to be going up like a rocket or to drop prone until the pilot is comfortable. When all is steady the pilot goes prone...
I LOVED starting out prone, launching under high tension, going up like a rocket, and watching the truck turn into a Tonka Toy in one and a half seconds. It was like a carrier launch without the possibility of engine or catapult failure, rolling of the deck, falling six stories onto the ocean, and being immediately run over by a 97 thousand ton boat. The first time people do it their eyes are like saucers. Then they land and say, "AGAIN!!!"
A short line can get 45 degree off to one side much much quicker than a very very long line...
True, but with the glider bolted trim and level up to the instant of launch, that much excess airspeed, and the ability to pull line off the drum it simply doesn't happen.
MikeLake
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Re: Surface tow, foot launch release opinions.

Post by MikeLake »

Yes indeed I'm sure our conditions are more suited to foot launching.
We fly in thick air more or less at sea level. Just a few more cans of aerosol hair spray and our airstrips will be the first to succumb to the North Sea.
We do have dust devils, but it's a pretty rare event.

There is also a problem in that hard runways are at a premium and we often have to tow across stubble or ploughed fields.
Like I said when we can use a trolley but we find it not worth the effort.

On a good day we too have a queue of pilots waiting for launch (The English excel at queuing), not on the scale of a flight park of course, but it is not unusual for pilots to get in 6 or 7 launches throughout the day in a production line fashion.
2 lines (or 4 with 2 winches) are pulled out at a time and pilots are winched up in quick succession. There is then a bit of a breather as the lines are pulled out again with a Quad bike.
In the 25 years or so of the clubs 'modern' era there have been very few problems. Any foot launch problems turn out to be not really tow related, just poor T/Os (run & lurch).
I LOVED starting out prone, launching under high tension, going up like a rocket...
For me rocket tow ups are ok, once I'm away from the ground.
I'm not a fan of rocket T/Os and a relatively mild T/O makes converting to prone and the first release a bit less 'twitchy'.
For me to have a rocket T/O I'd first want to replace my weak-link with a bit of rope.

Just goes to show that towing is towing is towing is not true.
Good thread.
Zack C
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Re: Surface tow, foot launch release opinions.

Post by Zack C »

Tad Eareckson wrote:What those sonsabitches are saying is that they're more concerned about one of their lights maybe getting broken than one of your necks probably getting broken.
I'm pretty sure they didn't know enough about what we do to even consider safety. What bugs me the most is that they didn't consult us first. We're talking about fighting it but it's very difficult to get people motivated to actually do anything. I'm not sure if we can even play the safety card because I seem to be the only one in the club that has a problem with foot launching (at least the only one who's said anything).

One of our UK guys said that over there students use a release activated by a line running the length of a downtube. Releasing means moving a hand from anywhere on the tube outward, hitting the line with the back of the hand, and moving it back to the tube. I never heard of this but it sounds a lot better than any other option I know of for releasing from the downtubes. However, it sounds like a really bad idea once your hands are on the base tube (the opposite problem I have with my Lookout release). Students eventually 'graduate' to towing single-point. I asked for links on the release but didn't get any.
Tad Eareckson wrote:You are, by definition, doing it [first stage release] a long ways from the ground.
Not if you're using it with a payout winch, in which case the tow line angle increases very rapidly. I've seen (in a good wind) people foot launch behind a payout winch with the line routed only under the base tube.

Mike, if you're not familiar with platform launching, you can jump to 4:46 to 5:30 in this video to see a bunch of platform launches from different perspectives:

http://vimeo.com/16261882


It's all the benefits of dolly launching taken to the next level.
Tad Eareckson wrote:And another flavor of wheeled takeoff would be a glider with regular (non castering) wheels launching prone with a keel runner.
What do you mean by 'keel runner'? I've never heard of anyone doing this...do you have any links to any pictures are descriptions of this type of launching? How safe is it relative to a conventional tandem wheel setup? Just wondering if this could be a viable option for Columbus.

Zack
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Tad Eareckson
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Re: Surface tow, foot launch release opinions.

Post by Tad Eareckson »

I'm pretty sure they didn't know enough about what we do to even consider safety.
Yeah, that sums things up REAL well. Maybe the default mode should be that we've got a REASON for doing things the way we do - even if that actually only pans out about a third of the time.
We're talking about fighting it but it's very difficult to get people motivated to actually do anything.
Tell everybody that Tad wrote the airport and told them to ban the carts 'cause they're dangerous.
I'm not sure if we can even play the safety card because I seem to be the only one in the club that has a problem with foot launching (at least the only one who's said anything).
That's OK, just remember to keep the cameras rolling every launch. Shouldn't take too long. And this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u51qpPLz5U0


might help a little while you're waiting.
One of our UK guys said that over there students use a release activated by a line running the length of a downtube.
Yeah. Students. After they get fifty or sixty tows under their belts they will have the skills to safely fly with more dangerous configurations.
I never heard of this but it sounds a lot better than any other option I know of for releasing from the downtubes. However, it sounds like a really bad idea once your hands are on the base tube (the opposite problem I have with my Lookout release). ... I asked for links on the release but didn't get any.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerotowrelease/8305428629/
Image

This was the evolutionary stage of my two point system before I swapped the Remote Barrel in for the spinnaker shackle.

In the stage prior to this - which was pretty close to what I started with in 1994 (at which time I thought I was the first and only glider to be using a spinnaker shackle as a release) - there was a 205 leechline lanyard running down the trailing edge of the port downtube with a few lashed on stainless steel rings serving as guides along the way.

Forget the stuff in the basetube. Just tie the bottom end of the lanyard to the basetube inboard of the wheel.

Now you've got what the UK guys are doing PLUS a better basetube option.

But this is still a chickenshit way of trying to rationalize your way around not using a dolly. There are situations in which you simply cannot survive taking your hand off for an INSTANT. And there are also many situations in which, even if it's POSSIBLE to get away with it, the overwhelming majority of pilots simply WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DO IT.

When a water snake bites you you don't pull your hand away. If you leave it there you get pricks that bleed a little then disappear. If you pull it away the sharp hooked teeth sink in deep and you get cut pretty bad (doesn't do the snake a whole lotta good either - sometimes it loses a tooth (for a while)). But you've usually gotta get bit a couple of times to train yourself.
Students eventually 'graduate' to towing single-point.
Yeah. "Graduate." Like the way really experienced drivers don't really need seat belts and air bags. It's a bunch of total crap and competition pilots get killed with and because of single point just as dead as Twos. If it's dangerous it's dangerous.
Not if you're using it with a payout winch, in which case the tow line angle increases very rapidly. I've seen (in a good wind) people foot launch behind a payout winch with the line routed only under the base tube.
Not sure I understand this one. Yeah, if you're launching close to the winch. But why would you wanna do that unless you're gonna kite and pull out line in a strong wind or step tow?
What do you mean by 'keel runner'?
Somebody holding up the back of your glider like for a hang check 'cept not just standing there.
...do you have any links to any pictures are descriptions of this type of launching?
Nah, just a vague recollection of hearing that it's been done.
How safe is it relative to a conventional tandem wheel setup?
Conventional tandems have castering wheels - just like dollies. Do the math.
Just wondering if this could be a viable option for Columbus.
It's chickenshit. Get those stupid assholes to give you your dollies back. Do things right or don't. This sport's plenty dangerous enough without managers usurping pilot decisions - especially when the pilots are right.
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